Feel like a doormat

[Moselle]

Tried the SET approach last week. It calmed my separated uBPD wife, but now she's cottoned onto it, completely ignores the empathy and sympathy as a manipulation, and just moves onto the next rant.

I'm very new to this, and I feel like my positive efforts have been trampled on.

I'm still refusing to fight back and she calmed down after an hour, but that hour was very stressful, she went over all the boundaries I put in place like the tide comes over a sand bank- everywhere.

What to do?

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[Love Is Not Enough]

Tried the SET approach last week. It calmed my separated uBPD wife, but now she's cottoned onto it, completely ignores the empathy and sympathy as a manipulation, and just moves onto the next rant.

I'm very new to this, and I feel like my positive efforts have been trampled on.

I'm still refusing to fight back and she calmed down after an hour, but that hour was very stressful, she went over all the boundaries I put in place like the tide comes over a sand bank- everywhere.

What to do?

Disengage! Walk away. If she sees your sincere go at being empathetic as being manipulation then that is her problem. Just say that you can see this conversation is going nowhere and that you will call her by a specific time. Let her rant to herself. Dont stand there and let it stress YOU out. Then when you call, if she contines where she left off, then tell her to have a nice day and you will try back later. Eventually she will realize that she is not getting anything out of ranting and hopefully it will be reduced greatly. I am always amazed how well they can control themselves when the expectation is placed upon them. Of course everyone is different and you are working to overcome something that has been working for HER for a very long time. Good luck! 

[elemental]

Agree with the above poster. If she won't calm, excuse yourself to let her self soothe. Let her know you will be back in a bit, that your cell phone is with you if you leave home, and then go do some self care.

As far as SET,  I don't know how fast she caught on to that and started feeling patronized and it escalated... . but sometimes not invalidating ( if you can't validate) and taking a break is all you can do. Allowing things to calm so you are not JADEing and getting into circular arguements will help things generally calm down.

ATM she is not believing you mean it.

It might take quite a bit of work to get her to trust you on this and then work with you instead of against you.

[an0ught]

Hi Moselle,

I'm still refusing to fight back and she calmed down after an hour, but that hour was very stressful, she went over all the boundaries I put in place like the tide comes over a sand bank- everywhere.

What to do?

how was she able to step over your boundaries?

[Moselle]

Love is not enough, elemental thanks for the advice!

An0ught, she picked me up at the airport, I've come home to spend the weekend away with the children. She had me as a captive audience for 1 hour in traffic. I thought of just getting out of the car in the middle of the traffic jam.

The two boundaries I set last week were 'I won't tolerate being shouted at' and no threats. She got through a helluvalot of both!

I just sat tight and refused to fight back, but it left me feeling deflated and stressed.

Next time - a taxi :-)

[Moselle]

Allowing things to calm so you are not JADEing and getting into circular arguements will help things generally calm down.

Can I ask what JADEing is?

She picked up on the SET pretty fast, saying 'stop being sickly sweet to me'. I also had a conversation with her about boundaries, and how important they were for her as well. It was quite constructive, but also gave Mrs Hyde an understanding of the 'boundaries' landscape, and where to drop the bombs.

[an0ught]

Hi Moselle,

wow, your wife got brains but she is using it all the wrong way for game playing

An0ught, she picked me up at the airport, I've come home to spend the weekend away with the children. She had me as a captive audience for 1 hour in traffic. I thought of just getting out of the car in the middle of the traffic jam.

The two boundaries I set last week were 'I won't tolerate being shouted at' and no threats. She got through a helluvalot of both!

I just sat tight and refused to fight back, but it left me feeling deflated and stressed.

Next time - a taxi :-)

Car situation suck - so hard to escape. Not engaging, avoiding invalidation are the only tools at hand unless the situation becomes unsafe when you do have to get out which will be a challenge then. Yeah, sounds like you need to switch to taxi for a while. Not as punishment for her but for your own peace of mind.

Can I ask what JADEing is?

Justify

Argue

Defend

Explain

- all reliable means to invalidate if you are looking for that.

As far as SET,  I don't know how fast she caught on to that and started feeling patronized and it escalated... . but sometimes not invalidating ( if you can't validate) and taking a break is all you can do. Allowing things to calm so you are not JADEing and getting into circular arguements will help things generally calm down.

Getting validation right and fitting it into your partners personal ability to perceive takes tuning and adjustment of all parties involved. Do not give up just because she picks on it. Validation is sense making and it works whether she claims to like it or not. If it would not work you could kiss the global advertisement industry goodbye and I don't see that coming. Of course if you sound like ELIZA to your wife you are doomed but that need not be so.

Watch the Fruzzetti video if you have not here  Validation - tips and traps and the post by UfN here: 6 levels of validation. There are many different ways we can respond in a validating manner and while the conversation on this board leads to a preference to validating oral dialog focused discussions validating behavior is a wider topic. Also keep in mind that SET is not always the right approach - in most situation simply sticking with validation and ignoring less relevant facts works better. Facts are often just props used to express an emotions so why bother expending attention?

[elemental]

It must have totally sucked being stuck in that car. I really hate it when people are having a go at me, and literally I cannot even move my physical self away from it. You did good   hopefully you can get a taxi next time.

[Moselle]

An0ught

Thanks for the advice!

I realise just how much invalidation I have done over the years and the damage it has caused to my uBPDw.

It's an easy habit to get into if the cycle is abusive.

I guess this a skill we learn by doing, so I've been practicing on my children yesterday and today. I also realise that I've been doing it fairly naturally already. The trick is going to be when she starts to rage, keeping it from going into invalidation.

Regards

Moselle

[Grey Kitty]

The trick is going to be when she starts to rage, keeping it from going into invalidation.

Once the raging starts, the trick is just to disengage (leave). If you aren't with her, you can't invalidate her at that time. And you can be sure that she will be invalidating you all over the place if you stick around and listen to it!

Being trapped in a car is a situation for you to avoid. If you are driving, you can pull over and insist that no motion will happen with raging, or even ask her to get out... . or at least get out and let her drive herself home and find your own transportation. If she is driving, it is trickier.

Hang in there!

 GK

[waverider]

Be aware for anything to change then then obviously you will act differently. This difference in you will be picked up and it will be challenged.

Boundaries without specific actions wont work.

Tools like SET and validation, just oils the wheels of communication, they wont always fix everything.