Parents want me to divorce her

[guitarguy09]

Long story short, my uBPDw doesn't get along very well with my parents or my sisters. At one point last summer in June, my older sister and her got along pretty well after hashing out their disagreements. Her husband was supportive in making the communication changes necessary to get their relationship to work. And things went really well for a few weeks.

My wife decided she wanted to make amends and to try and get along with my middle sister the same way. My middle sister has a very different personality than my older sister, and is much more "my way or the highway". When the two of us met with my middle sister and her husband, my sister did not seem receptive to the idea of getting together, but just wanted to get together at family gatherings for a while. My wife, being how she is, wrote a long email about why my sister should reconsider. My sister called me and said this was why she didn't really like my wife and why she can't trust what she says. And it all spiraled downhill from there.

Anyways, we got together with my parents a couple of times, but neither time was stellar, and as soon as my wife wrote another one of her emails complaining that my dad didn't pay any attention to her when we got together over Thanksgiving, my dad said no more and they haven't had us over since.

Now they expect me to just bring over our son without her. It is very hard, because they basically don't have compassion for what she goes through with BPD and they don't really want to try to make a few small changes to accommodate her. They even said on a couple of occasions that they would like to see us get divorced so they could see me and our son more. I have tried for a while to get my wife to see my point of view on why I want to bring over our son (2 year old) but it's clear that she is dead set against that. I have told my parents that we are not getting divorced because I love her and I don't feel ready to get a divorce (we are happy most of the time). Today my dad brought up how if I divorced her I might be able to find someone "better".

Any advice?

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[MissyM]

I can see how your wife interacting so negatively with your family is a problem.  Why are you pushing the interaction?  As far as your family offering an opinion on how you should live your life, that is about boundaries.  A simple boundary of I am not going to discuss my wife and our relationship, should stop that.  It doesn't have to be a mean boundary, just that it is your marriage and you are going to make the choices that are right for your family.  You appreciate their concern.  Then change the subject.  Anytime they say something, reiterate the boundary and change the subject.  Eventually, they won't bring it up anymore.  IMHO, trying to force closeness with your family and inviting them into your relationship so much is unhealthy.   

My family is aware of my husband's issues.  He has a cordial relationship with them but doesn't get really close to anyone.  If he thought that they knew the extent of his problems, he would totally cut them out.  So, he doesn't know that I have shared the struggles we have had with a couple of them.  Of course, neither of the two I have shared it with would ever tell me to leave.  They tell me that they support me either way, if I need to leave they will help and if I chose to stay they will help.  Those with poorer boundaries don't have much info about what is going on, I just don't need the hassle.

[guitarguy09]

I can see how your wife interacting so negatively with your family is a problem.  Why are you pushing the interaction? 

Up to this point, I have pushed the interaction because my wife thinks it should be a package deal, with either all of us going over there or none of us. She thinks if they "don't respect" her then they don't get to see us.

As far as your family offering an opinion on how you should live your life, that is about boundaries.  A simple boundary of I am not going to discuss my wife and our relationship, should stop that.  It doesn't have to be a mean boundary, just that it is your marriage and you are going to make the choices that are right for your family.  You appreciate their concern.  Then change the subject.  Anytime they say something, reiterate the boundary and change the subject.  Eventually, they won't bring it up anymore.  IMHO, trying to force closeness with your family and inviting them into your relationship so much is unhealthy.

   

I appreciate that. I know I for sure have some boundary issues and my family tends to cross the line, especially with me being the youngest. I think that they think they need to always "look out for me" and that they "know better than me" on a lot of issues. But that is a separate issue. Not having that boundary I think has caused me a great deal of stress.

My family is aware of my husband's issues.  He has a cordial relationship with them but doesn't get really close to anyone.  If he thought that they knew the extent of his problems, he would totally cut them out.  So, he doesn't know that I have shared the struggles we have had with a couple of them.  Of course, neither of the two I have shared it with would ever tell me to leave.  They tell me that they support me either way, if I need to leave they will help and if I chose to stay they will help.  Those with poorer boundaries don't have much info about what is going on, I just don't need the hassle.

Oh, how I wish that was the case in my situation. My wife tried for a long time to get into a close relationship with my sisters, probably because she didn't have any siblings of her own to be close to. I told her as well as everyone else on her side that she shouldn't try to force a relationship if their personalities are so different and if it's been difficult. Of course, after it's too late, now she would be content with just getting together at family gatherings and nothing outside. But she also demands an apology from everyone (she would be willing to do so too), something she is unlikely to get unfortunately.

I so wish my family was unconditionally supportive of me. I know they don't get along with her, but that doesn't mean that I am not happy with her most of the time. I think lack of support as well as criticism from them over the years including before I met my wife has really played a part in making my self confidence low.

[MissyM]

I'm sorry your family is so unsupportive.  When I did codependency recovery the 1st time, 20 years ago, I set boundaries with my Mom.  She was not supportive and really wanted to control everything in my life.  I just laid out (with the help of a therapist) what was acceptable and what wasn't.  If she didn't follow these, then she no  longer was allowed to spend time with my daughter or me.  When she tried to offer me her opinion, I would say I appreciate her concern but this was not open for discussion.  When she crossed any of the boundaries with my daughter, she didn't see her for quite a while.  Then she apologized and was allowed to see her again.  She never crosses over my boundaries now.  It is tough to set boundaries with people in the beginning but gets easier.  Now, I am getting better at setting them with my dBPDh!  It is much harder with him, he manipulates in a way my mother didn't.

[guitarguy09]

Thanks for your advice. Was your Dad the same way as your Mom? That is good it gets easier to set boundaries as time goes on. I would like to take my son over to see my parents, but I suppose I should set those boundaries first. I just hope my wife doesn't say "over my dead body" like I think she will.

[MissyM]

No, my Dad was never that way.  They were divorced and I wasn't with my husband, at the time.  All of those things made it easier for me.  It is hard to buck our family role but it can be done.  I think the hardest part was learning to set boundaries and stick with them.  I tend to get really mad with my husband and set a boundary but cave as time goes on.  It requires a lot of hyper vigilance with some people.  Are either of your parents PD?

[guitarguy09]

I agree, that would seem to make it easier. My family tends to all get in agreement with each other on how to solve an issue except when it comes to supporting me. It made it very stressful in 2010 especially, and somewhat all along and lately worse. Setting boundaries and enforcing them would be tough, I agree.

I'm not sure if either of my parents are PD, but I have a feeling my dad might be NPD and my mom isn't but she tends to just go along with whatever he thinks (orbits is the term I have read). Everything they want me to do tends to revolve around their best interests vs. making sure I have everything I need and am feeling good, etc. My mom's side is definitely not that way. She has three siblings, and all are fun loving, easy going people with nice families. My family is nice too and is very functional at least to the outside. But I tend to be the one that is the scapegoat of the bunch, and the only boy with two older sisters growing up which maybe made it easier for my parents to blame me, I don't know. My grandpa and grandma on that side also tend to be a little controlling and overbearing. I know my dad gets annoyed at my grandma quite regularly (my grandpa passed quite a while ago). But I think my family has a very hard time admitting they are wrong, saying they are sorry or having empathy for another person's situation (or my wife's disorder).

[waverider]

At the end of the day you can't control what other people feel or do. You need to use your boundaries around you and your needs. This seems to be that you want to be able to see you family with your son as much as you like without pressure from anyone. Neither your family or you wife.

BPD relationships are hard to understand, and almost impossible for those outside them, who usually fall back on the "leave them" response, which is quite understandable. If that is the case don't go into it with your family ( I know that's hard), that only feeds you wife's insecurity anyway.

Its like trying force oil and water to mix.

[guitarguy09]

Right. I definitely need to learn to use those boundaries and actually do it. I think you hit the nail on the head with what I want to be able to do. Yep, I agree BPD relationships are hard to understand, and not going into it with them would be wise in my case I think.

[HopefulDad]

I'm sorry your family is so unsupportive.  When I did codependency recovery the 1st time, 20 years ago, I set boundaries with my Mom.  She was not supportive and really wanted to control everything in my life.  I just laid out (with the help of a therapist) what was acceptable and what wasn't.  If she didn't follow these, then she no  longer was allowed to spend time with my daughter or me.  When she tried to offer me her opinion, I would say I appreciate her concern but this was not open for discussion.  When she crossed any of the boundaries with my daughter, she didn't see her for quite a while.  Then she apologized and was allowed to see her again.  She never crosses over my boundaries now.  It is tough to set boundaries with people in the beginning but gets easier.  Now, I am getting better at setting them with my dBPDh!  It is much harder with him, he manipulates in a way my mother didn't.

Great example of setting and enforcing boundaries with family.

[ATLandon]

I feel your pain on this issue. My immediate family and my wife never got along from day one of our relationship. I didn't visit my family nearly as often as I would have liked to because it caused so much unnecessary drama with my uBPD wife. I missed out on the tender years on my nephew's childhood because my wife gave me "its either me or them" mentality, though she would never outright put it that way. She still denies behaving in such a way to this day... .  

[guitarguy09]

I feel your pain on this issue. My immediate family and my wife never got along from day one of our relationship. I didn't visit my family nearly as often as I would have liked to because it caused so much unnecessary drama with my uBPD wife. I missed out on the tender years on my nephew's childhood because my wife gave me "its either me or them" mentality, though she would never outright put it that way. She still denies behaving in such a way to this day... .  

That's too bad. I'm hoping to be able to somehow still visit them with my son from time to time. I just hate getting all the added pressure. I read your original story, it sounds like your family didn't like her for no good reason?

[empathic]

Can relate to your issues. My family is very nice, but my mother might be NPD (and my father always goes along with her). Have a (much) older sibling that's been treated as a "golden child". I on the other hand have been, as you say, looked out for. This has definitely contributed to the situation I am in now.

It's been especially difficult when I have been put in the role as a middle man between my wife and my family, for things like travelling and family gatherings. It has caused a lot of stress for me and at times it's felt like hopeless a task.

I have had to reveal my BPD struggles to my parents. While the way they communicate with me certainly has improved compared to, say, 20 years ago, I don't feel like they can really help me out (except for letting me vent occasionally). My mother now often asks "what's it like now", like this issue could be solved in a day or so. My father can't talk about these kinds of things, so he does not say anything about it.

[guitarguy09]

Oh how I hate the role of the middle man. I find my wife loves to put me in that role even if it is not about my family. For instance, she had a big falling out with a friend a little over a year ago. She had me texting her friend's husband (who was my friend) asking if she would give her another chance, and explaining what happened. Ugh. And then I still hate being the go-between between my parents and sisters and her. Although lately, it's like we don't get together at all and I just hear about how we're not getting together.

My parents know about her BPD struggles, and especially my older sister knows about them since she has gone to counseling on how to deal with it, but one thing my family lacks is compassion and understanding on how to deal with her and try to satisfy her basic needs so she feels "welcome" and "safe" in the family. And I certainly relate to the older "golden child". It drives me nuts the way everyone thinks they know better than me what to do all the time.

[byfaith]

Dude, I have been reading your posts for a while and we seem to be in a very similar situation. It's nice that your parents haven't disowned you. My mother told me she wants nothing to do with me as long as I am married to my wife. My family has been very cruel to my wife. There are emails and texts my wife has sent out that have provoked my daughters and then my mom who is vicious and vindictive got involved with the "circle of hate". I feel for you because I know what it is like to be the middle man. It's been like that all my life. I could sit here and write a book on all of the crap that has gone on. My wife does not "want" to be around my kids because it brings up bad feelings inside of her (which I cant blame her). The weird thing is I believe my wife "cares" about my kids but not enough to let herself get hurt. I struggle with wanting to spend some time with my kids at the expense of my wife getting upset. The first thing my wife says is "they never ask about me? do they?" I even went out on a limb and briefly told my 2 oldest daughters that I believe my wife has BPD. I basically begged them not to tell anyone. I told my wife that I have not told anyone in my family. I have discussed BPD once with my wife, she didn't deny having a problem but she will not bring it back up. This illness is such a difficult thing to deal with with all involved, especially when you really cant share it with others fearing they may run their mouths or not be understanding. It's hard not to become isolated in our world of dealing with this illness, that is what I fight daily. It's even worse for my wife.

[guitarguy09]

Thanks for letting me know about your situation byfaith. I like the term "circle of hate." It really characterizes what goes on when everyone is fighting all the time. It's really too bad your family has been so terrible to your wife. Like my family, it doesn't sound like they are understanding or compassionate at all. And I totally agree about telling people about the BPD. The only people I have really discussed that with is a really close friend of mine and her mom. The big positive in all of this is that we have a great relationship with her side of the family and they have been very good to me and to us. BPD is a very difficult thing to deal with indeed.

[Grey Kitty]

My suggestion is to tell your family that you want their support.

And then tell them that support means letting you make your own choices regarding your wife, whether a divorce is the best course of action or not, etc. Ask them not to push you to divorce, separate, etc.

And ask them for what you want instead. Perhaps that is more time with them w/o your wife around. Perhaps other things? I'd recommend keeping your r/s with them strong and not involving your wife as much.

The harsher boundaries you can apply to your family only need to come up after you try this direct approach.

[guitarguy09]

Thanks Grey Kitty. I think that is a good approach and a little gentler than just telling them right away that it's not up for discussion (it isn't, but a slightly nicer way of putting it). I do make an effort to keep up the relationship, though it is sometimes hard because I know they can be critical and judgmental of me when I talk to them.

[guitarguy09]

I talked to my Mom this morning. I said I would like their support and didn't want them to push me one way or another regarding my wife. I just said we should concentrate on just me and my son going over to see them. And on that note, I can see WWIII approaching with my wife. 

Luckily, we have a vacation in the next couple weeks. We are visiting some relatives on my Mom's side we are on really good terms with and we both get along with really well. Not mentioning this family situation to them (can't see how it would help). I'm hoping (probably false hope) that my wife will be in a relaxed state when we get back from the vacation and when I tell her I am going to bring my son over there. If she says "over my dead body", I'm not sure what to do next besides just going over myself. I do really want to bring my son over there though.

[waverider]

I talked to my Mom this morning. I said I would like their support and didn't want them to push me one way or another regarding my wife. I just said we should concentrate on just me and my son going over to see them. And on that note, I can see WWIII approaching with my wife. 

Luckily, we have a vacation in the next couple weeks. We are visiting some relatives on my Mom's side we are on really good terms with and we both get along with really well. Not mentioning this family situation to them (can't see how it would help). I'm hoping (probably false hope) that my wife will be in a relaxed state when we get back from the vacation and when I tell her I am going to bring my son over there. If she says "over my dead body", I'm not sure what to do next besides just going over myself. I do really want to bring my son over there though.

If you give in to your wife's demands you will teach her that you give in to her demands. So she will control you by issuing demands because they work. Do not expect to be able to talk reasonableness into her. You need to work out what is right objectively, and do it.