My Dream...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

... was shattered. I shared my part in the shattering. I idealized the "nuclear" family I never had. To be a father which I never had. My uBPDx in her way as well, given her horribly dysfunctional and abusive FOO. Maybe even now we both have something better than we were given? I think so. Perhaps I should be satisfied at this. I'm not going gently into that good night though. Not even close, though I have no choice but to go all the same.

I was never madly in love (or whatever passes for love with a disordered person) like many here. My detachment from her is long done. I'm still deeply saddened, depressed, even, about the reality of our split family now. My anger is still great. Maybe it's too soon, only 3 weeks out from physical seperation. Maybe being "best buds" with her like she wants to be (in part, to co-parent our children, in part I think for her to have a stable presence in her life) would help me to realize this. Lunch last Sunday with her and the kids wasn't too bad, though uncomfortable for me. She tried an opening: "so how are you doing?" I really think that if there was something "wrong" with me, she'd get value from helping to fix it. I'm not biting. Not with this person. So how do I let go?

It felt good focusing on exciting things at work today. I get a kick out of doing lab tours, as some hs students came in to view all of our wonderful "toys." I love that stuff. Then they left, and I cycled depressed thinking about things. It's not good to rely on things external for our happiness, though they help. I defined my happiness by an attachment just the same: my intact family, even though I felt devalued and was unhappy for a long time (so was she, so she chose to leave, albeit horribly for me). It's not like the break up of a family is uncommon. And most, if not all, seem to get past it and embrace their new realities. Perhaps it's too soon for me to be here, and I should go back to mostly lurking, letting time work on me.

I'll have the kids all weekend. Barring some incident, I plan on taking them to see their first real snow. It may even be snowing. Too bad their mother will miss it (there I go again, focusing on her). One more day, another, and then another after that. It's all I can do at this point.

[Turkish]

... was shattered. I shared my part in the shattering. I idealized the "nuclear" family I never had. To be a father which I never had. My uBPDx in her way as well, given her horribly dysfunctional and abusive FOO. Maybe even now we both have something better than we were given? I think so. Perhaps I should be satisfied at this. I'm not going gently into that good night though. Not even close, though I have no choice but to go all the same.

I was never madly in love (or whatever passes for love with a disordered person) like many here. My detachment from her is long done. I'm still deeply saddened, depressed, even, about the reality of our split family now. My anger is still great. Maybe it's too soon, only 3 weeks out from physical seperation. Maybe being "best buds" with her like she wants to be (in part, to co-parent our children, in part I think for her to have a stable presence in her life) would help me to realize this. Lunch last Sunday with her and the kids wasn't too bad, though uncomfortable for me. She tried an opening: "so how are you doing?" I really think that if there was something "wrong" with me, she'd get value from helping to fix it. I'm not biting. Not with this person. So how do I let go?

It felt good focusing on exciting things at work today. I get a kick out of doing lab tours, as some hs students came in to view all of our wonderful "toys." I love that stuff. Then they left, and I cycled depressed thinking about things. It's not good to rely on things external for our happiness, though they help. I defined my happiness by an attachment just the same: my intact family, even though I felt devalued and was unhappy for a long time (so was she, so she chose to leave, albeit horribly for me). It's not like the break up of a family is uncommon. And most, if not all, seem to get past it and embrace their new realities. Perhaps it's too soon for me to be here, and I should go back to mostly lurking, letting time work on me.

I'll have the kids all weekend. Barring some incident, I plan on taking them to see their first real snow. It may even be snowing. Too bad their mother will miss it (there I go again, focusing on her). One more day, another, and then another after that. It's all I can do at this point.

[Mutt]

I understand what you are saying about your place in a family as a husband and a father and how much it means Turkish. It was very hard for me to accept, but I had to let go of my ego. It was probably one of the hardest things to go through after the split.

I'll fit into that constellation again in the future with someone else because that's what I want. For now, I'm happy to settle with just me and the kids.

[musicfan42]

I've never really been in love either. I've just wanted the stability that I didn't get as a child... that's it. I don't actually understand what the phrase "being in love" means because I'm so hyper-vigilant.

[Contradancer]

One of the best movie lines (actually from a book) is, "Home is where they catch you when you fall." I was raised in a family that for cultural and regional traditions touted family loyalty, but then produced emotional wreckage.

I also have been super vigilant in fear of getting into one more mistake. I developed close friendships, and they have become my brother and sister. The fantasy of a parent is gone, as has my dream of having children (three miscarriages and I'm now 53), but another close friend is much younger and like a daughter. But, I now have a very healthy, high-functioning man who is Home to me. Not a Norman Rockwell Thanksgiving portrait, but I'm happy.

I really never thought I'd find someone that loves me, or that I'd "be in love". It seems strange to me that my real family is so non-traditional, but they are the ones who catch me when I fall.

[seeking balance]

... was shattered. I shared my part in the shattering. I idealized the "nuclear" family I never had. To be a father which I never had. My uBPDx in her way as well, given her horribly dysfunctional and abusive FOO. Maybe even now we both have something better than we were given? I think so. Perhaps I should be satisfied at this. I'm not going gently into that good night though. Not even close, though I have no choice but to go all the same.

At a certain age, the dream of the family becomes much more important than the person we choose to start our family with - we do our best "research" but really, we are the ones fitting them into our puzzle.  Digging deeper into your FOO - do you think the dream of a family was going to solve that core lonely from not having your own father?  I know I did.

I was never madly in love (or whatever passes for love with a disordered person) like many here. My detachment from her is long done.

What do you mean the detachment is gone?  Perhaps my definition of detachment is different than yours, thus me asking.

I'm still deeply saddened, depressed, even, about the reality of our split family now. My anger is still great. Maybe it's too soon, only 3 weeks out from physical seperation. Maybe being "best buds" with her like she wants to be (in part, to co-parent our children, in part I think for her to have a stable presence in her life) would help me to realize this.

Co-parenting is healthy to do - and good to strive for... . take BPD out of it for a moment; do you think it might be a little soon to be best buds with the person who on other posts you see as destroying your family? 

Giving yourself a safe place to grieve would be a step in detachment... . stuffing feelings and being buds right now is changing the attachment, but not letting the deep emotions be felt and released.

Lunch last Sunday with her and the kids wasn't too bad, though uncomfortable for me. She tried an opening: "so how are you doing?" I really think that if there was something "wrong" with me, she'd get value from helping to fix it. I'm not biting. Not with this person. So how do I let go?

Turkish - can you see that there has been very little time for you to grieve - if I recall, I don't even think you have had 48 hours without exposure to her since she moved out... . letting go is going to take time and discipline.

It felt good focusing on exciting things at work today. I get a kick out of doing lab tours, as some hs students came in to view all of our wonderful "toys." I love that stuff.

Savor those moments!  Perhaps even start a daily gratitude list so you can refer back to it in the depressed times.

Then they left, and I cycled depressed thinking about things. It's not good to rely on things external for our happiness, though they help. I defined my happiness by an attachment just the same: my intact family, even though I felt devalued and was unhappy for a long time (so was she, so she chose to leave, albeit horribly for me). It's not like the break up of a family is uncommon. And most, if not all, seem to get past it and embrace their new realities. Perhaps it's too soon for me to be here, and I should go back to mostly lurking, letting time work on me.

What do you mean too soon?  We start where we are - there is no right or wrong place and if you are ready to dig into your stuff, now is as good of a time as any, right? 

I'll have the kids all weekend. Barring some incident, I plan on taking them to see their first real snow. It may even be snowing. Too bad their mother will miss it (there I go again, focusing on her). One more day, another, and then another after that. It's all I can do at this point.

Turkish, try this - next time you want to focus on her - don't.  Don't write it down in your stream of thought and if you do - delete it... . changing your thought patterns will take a lot of discipline and self talk on your part.  Habits will change and your thoughts will change.

It is ok to be sad that she isn't with you, perhaps rephrase this sentence to:

I'll have the kids all weekend. Barring some incident, I plan on taking them to see their first real snow. It may even be snowing. I am sad and scared to be creating new memories without my stbx, but also excited to see the faces of my children in the snow. One more day, another, and then another after that. It's all I can do at this point.

Subtle differences in thought processes can help detach and heal.

Good seeing you on this board Turkish - I hope you do more than lurk 

Peace,

SB

[Turkish]

... was shattered. I shared my part in the shattering. I idealized the "nuclear" family I never had. To be a father which I never had. My uBPDx in her way as well, given her horribly dysfunctional and abusive FOO. Maybe even now we both have something better than we were given? I think so. Perhaps I should be satisfied at this. I'm not going gently into that good night though. Not even close, though I have no choice but to go all the same.

At a certain age, the dream of the family becomes much more important than the person we choose to start our family with - we do our best "research" but really, we are the ones fitting them into our puzzle.  :)igging deeper into your FOO - do you think the dream of a family was going to solve that core lonely from not having your own father?  I know I did.

Yes of course. To give my kids what I never had. To be the [good] father I wished I had. Everyone who observes me seems to think I'm doing a fantastic job thus far. Even the kids' mother (which I appreciate). I have that demanding inner parent inside of me, though, that is self-critical that I am not doing enough sometimes. But it's not like beating myself up over it. I have no anxiety or worry that I'm not a good parent. The kids' mom does. I always tried to get her to step back from being so self-critical. Now, I find it hard to even engage her, even when she said the other day "I'm trying to be a better mom." This thinking, though common, is foreign to me. I may think, "perhaps I should have done X with the kids instead of taking some time to myself on the computer, or to read" but it never, ever crossed my mind that I was being a "bad dad."

Maybe I'm not easy enough on myself. Like my T said multiple times, "you have trouble taking compliments, don't you?" When my mom had breast cancer surgery, then two years later, she had a hysterectomy (her mom and sis both had ovarian cancer, the latter dying from it at a young age). People at the hospital were commenting on how good a son I was to drive 3 hours and support my mom. What? Who wouldn't do that? (apparently a lot of lousy kids out there) It wouldn't occur to me to not do that. I didn't do it for kudos either. It's just my duty as a son. I felt neither bad nor good about it.

I was never madly in love (or whatever passes for love with a disordered person) like many here. My detachment from her is long done.

What do you mean the detachment is gone?  Perhaps my definition of detachment is different than yours, thus me asking.

Meaning I don't pine away to have her back. The drama and WoE was too much for me (my "failure" in her eyes, in not meeting her needs). Her all but throwing her disgusting r/s in my face sealed it for me. Neglecting her children to pursue him cauterized it.

I'm still deeply saddened, depressed, even, about the reality of our split family now. My anger is still great. Maybe it's too soon, only 3 weeks out from physical seperation. Maybe being "best buds" with her like she wants to be (in part, to co-parent our children, in part I think for her to have a stable presence in her life) would help me to realize this.

Co-parenting is healthy to do - and good to strive for... . take BPD out of it for a moment; do you think it might be a little soon to be best buds with the person who on other posts you see as destroying your family?  

That's exactly what I think! She thinks otherwise. I refuse to meet her at that level... . yet. Sometime far in the future, I think we might be something akin to friends, perhaps. Depending upon how stable she is.

Giving yourself a safe place to grieve would be a step in detachment... . stuffing feelings and being buds right now is changing the attachment, but not letting the deep emotions be felt and released.

Not sure what safe place that would be.

Lunch last Sunday with her and the kids wasn't too bad, though uncomfortable for me. She tried an opening: "so how are you doing?" I really think that if there was something "wrong" with me, she'd get value from helping to fix it. I'm not biting. Not with this person. So how do I let go?

Turkish - can you see that there has been very little time for you to grieve - if I recall, I don't even think you have had 48 hours without exposure to her since she moved out... . letting go is going to take time and discipline.

Yes, which is why I'm not doing the "we should still do things as a family for the kids' sake" thing she wants to do. I'm not falling for that emotional blackmail. The kids and I do fine in our little "pack." The good thing now is that I might not have to see her for at least two weeks, though we do the brief nightly calls to the kids. If she shows up at church again in two weeks, nothing I can do about that. I don't feel comfortable at this point going out with them to eat again. I did it once, more to prove to myself that I could. So proved.

It is ok to be sad that she isn't with you, perhaps rephrase this sentence to:

I'll have the kids all weekend. Barring some incident, I plan on taking them to see their first real snow. It may even be snowing. I am sad and scared to be creating new memories without my stbx, but also excited to see the faces of my children in the snow. One more day, another, and then another after that. It's all I can do at this point.

I'm sad, but not scared. The only thing I really fear is that I'm not good enough to be loved for who I am, rather than as an object of need fulfillment. The kids' mom said, "Turkish is everything a woman would want in a man, but I still can't love him." Mabye I am, leaving aside the weird idealization, but apparently I wasn't good enough in the end. I may not be good enough for anybody. Maybe I'm too good (i.e., not vulnerable, or obviously flawed to attract someome to "fix" me... . I think this was part of it which repulsed her... . the perception that I really didn't "need" her). Other than the missing father, there isn't a hole that needs to be filled. An Emptyness that needs to be fulfilled. I don't know... . I suppose that stuff is best for another topic.

Thank you, SB, and everybody else, too.

[seeking balance]

Maybe I'm not easy enough on myself. Like my T said multiple times, "you have trouble taking compliments, don't you?"

I'm sad, but not scared. The only thing I really fear is that I'm not good enough to be loved for who I am, rather than as an object of need fulfillment.

Turkish, you are courageous to write this stuff - and going deep into feeling that core "good enough" is very hard... . when you go into that mucky emotional space it will be exhausting, but freeing - but when you do, these 2 statements will lose power.

Does your T have a strategy or specialize in this inner child work? 

[Turkish]

Maybe I'm not easy enough on myself. Like my T said multiple times, "you have trouble taking compliments, don't you?"

I'm sad, but not scared. The only thing I really fear is that I'm not good enough to be loved for who I am, rather than as an object of need fulfillment.

Turkish, you are courageous to write this stuff - and going deep into feeling that core "good enough" is very hard... . when you go into that mucky emotional space it will be exhausting, but freeing - but when you do, these 2 statements will lose power.

Does your T have a strategy or specialize in this inner child work? 

The thing is that I  really can't afford to go to him anymore. I  did weekly for four months,  but that is over.  his opinion is that there isn't anything " wrong"  with me,  despite me trying to argue otherwise.  he was a tremendous support through all of this though.  We did mostly talk about me.  in a  way,  he steered me towards  realizing that I'm a  decent man.  I'll see him once a month for a while.  the last time,  he asked me, " so where do we go from here?"  have ma a  talk on codependency and I  realized that while  I'm obviously a  Rescuer,  that I'm overall not a  Codependent.  Not sure. I  worked out a  tremendous amount of things on my own over the years.  I'll work this out as well,  from myself,  and with support from you tremendous people.

[seeking balance]

I  worked out a  tremendous amount of things on my own over the years.  I'll work this out as well,  from myself,  and with support from you tremendous people.

We are a support group and we are here - the digging deep that is often needed really should be done with a professional.  It is like peeling an onion to get to the next layer.  Having a T with training in "empty chair work" or some other technique to access those core worthiness issues is so worth the investment in yourself.

You have a lot of big tactical things to still tackle regarding divorce and custody - take good care of you 

Peace,

SB

[Turkish]

I've never really been in love either.  I don't actually understand what the phrase "being in love" means because I'm so hyper-vigilant.

Hi musicfan42, I thought I was once. But it was one-sided. That weird r/s/friendhip which crossed too many boundaries killed that fantasy/idealization in my, I think. The fantasy and romantic aspect I understand, but I feel that part of me died a long time ago.

I've just wanted the stability that I didn't get as a child... that's it.

Is that too much to ask for? I don't think so. I just want stability. Respect (not as The Man, but as a human being). Choosing to stay with a partner who didn't really exhibit these traits is the key to understanding, I think. Over two years ago, I stepped back and realized that this person, while sometimes sweet and loving, is basically mean. And she lacks mercy. She treated my mother disrespectfully 80% of the time, though my mother had a part in this in that her dynamic is rescuing motherless waifs. My Ex exhibited several traits I would think I would never, ever choose in a relationship. Huge turn-offs. Intellectually, I know this. emotionally, I stayed anyway, even after having a good opportunity to break somewhat cleanly before S4 was conceived. I persisted, knowing I didn't have that "ooh, I'm so in love with her!" feeling. And knowing she was emotionally unstable. That my presence soothed her for a time. I took value in that "work" (as her dad told me in the beginning, "you know how to handle her." No adult, mature person should need to be "handled." I handle my kids well, but they are kids.

To kind of answer SB's last question about a therapy plan, he laid out what are healthy traits in a woman, and said, "look for those." At some point, I will look. Maybe with a crib sheet hidden in my wallet for referral, .

The "being in love" thing... . I just don't know. If I'm not capable of it, then maybe I should just remain single. I have no problem being "in love" with my kids (I'm not being sick, I'm just using it for illustration). The disconnect with an adult is something I need to explore. There may be something here... . why I am attracted to lost little waif girls on the inside, regardless of their adult age.

[Turkish]

I  worked out a  tremendous amount of things on my own over the years.  I'll work this out as well,  from myself,  and with support from you tremendous people.

We are a support group and we are here - the digging deep that is often needed really should be done with a professional.  It is like peeling an onion to get to the next layer.  Having a T with training in "empty chair work" or some other technique to access those core worthiness issues is so worth the investment in yourself.

You have a lot of big tactical things to still tackle regarding divorce and custody - take good care of you 

Peace,

SB

I actually have a tremendous amount of money in the bank now, most of it in the form of a loan. This is to retain liquidity. Starting next week, the financial realities will set in. I would be ok for about 3 years barring little change in my lifestyle. After that, I would be up the creek. I've always been paranoid about money, due to the abject poverty my mother's depression and poor financial decisions had us in for half my childhood.

Even so, it may be worth talking to him (in 3 weeks) to see if we could come up with a 6-8 session plan on me, leaving aside all talk of her and the kids. As a family therapist with a lot of experience, he has a lot of good nuggest to throw out regarding children, too, which I find interesting.

[Turkish]

I  worked out a  tremendous amount of things on my own over the years.  I'll work this out as well,  from myself,  and with support from you tremendous people.

We are a support group and we are here - the digging deep that is often needed really should be done with a professional.  It is like peeling an onion to get to the next layer.

I actually know myself very well. Perhaps too well. I turned off an obvious waif just before I met my uBPDx, and was proud of myself for resisting the temptation. "I won't take value in being an object for someone who is telegraphing having 'fun' to recapture her lost childhood," I said to myself at the time. I think I know the "what" (unlike the kids' mother, I've never been anything but brutally honest about everything in T). It's more the "why" do the feelings persist. Getting past the feelings, whose roots I think I know, is the key for me. Perhaps surrounding myself with more healthy people of the opposite sex would be a start. I used to have many close female platonic friends, but they were all waifish, in a way. Now I have none. That part of the house has been cleaned. Now to primer over the moldy walls and paint anew before I move in the furnishings.

[musicfan42]

Turkish, I think the fact that you knew you didn't have that "I'm so in love with her" feeling was a sign of self-awareness on your part. From what you've said, I interpret it as a sign that your gut instinct/intuition knew there was something wrong in the relationship... that something was amiss. I'm wondering whether you trust your judgment and feelings though.

I ask this purely because I did a lot of work in therapy on trusting my perception of events. I was criticized a lot growing up and that made me doubt myself. I constantly wondered whether I was right or whether other people were right. The verbal abuse meant that I didn't have firm boundaries. I was used to my boundaries being violated on a regular basis growing up as a child. I would fight back in an aggressive manner but I was never taught how to be assertive. I had a choice of being passive or aggressive. That's all I knew! So that's all I did.

I've been in relationships before where I've known that something was wrong but I could never really put my finger on what exactly it was. I couldn't logically explain why I felt that way so I would rationalize things and tell myself that I was just overreacting when really, my gut instinct was 100% correct.

It's helped me to read up on healthy relationships... on domestic violence... so that I can fill in the logical part. My emotions were always right on the money but I needed to have some objective idea of what a healthy relationship consists of... to realize that there were certain standards of conduct and what those were.

[Turkish]

Turkish, I think the fact that you knew you didn't have that "I'm so in love with her" feeling was a sign of self-awareness on your part. From what you've said, I interpret it as a sign that your gut instinct/intuition knew there was something wrong in the relationship... that something was amiss. I'm wondering whether you trust your judgment and feelings though.

Thank you for giving me that credit. I had the stronge urge to call it off from our very first date. Then the next two months of friendship, where it was the constant push-pull. Yet still, I persisted, knowing in my gut that there was something seriously wrong. I remember in the first few months driving back a long ways from somewhere and thinking, "what do she and I really have in common?" She used to say that I had a few hobbies that reminded her of her xbf, the Love Of Her Life (who cheated, recycled, and dumped her again, leaving her devastated), but other than that, I had little in common with him. He struck me as kind of a narc anyway. He was the guy all the girls wanted, not like me, so she went opposite. She wanted kids, so did I, so in the end, I think this may have been a large part why we both persisted.

I looked back at my few relationships, going back to his, and realized this: I'm a waif rescuer. And based on something my T said about getting some of my rescuer traits from my mother, she is too! My mother made it a hobby of stepping in and forming relationships with younger woman whose mothers were physically and emotionally absent. My T said in the end that she and I were mismatched. Obviously, I saw the waif who needed soothing (like her dad said to me in the beginng, "you can handle her", and she saw someone to soothe, and also the father figure she wished she had had, though I "failed" her in the end like all men. Like the other few waifs, they also dumed me after a time, despite, like my uBPDx, all saying I was the best thing since sliced bread. My x wrote, "Turkish is everything a woman could want in a man, but I just can't love him." So what is it? I pick women to "rescue" despite the obvious mismatching, because it works for a time, then doesn't?

I've long thought of myself as an overacheiving underacheiver. In school, in work, though people who've known me fr decades, and knowing from how far I've come (dumpster diving, homelessness as a kid), say I've done fantastically. I still feel I haven't lived up to my potential. In relationships, perhaps as well. I pick the seemingly easy "bait" but they all have major issues. Perhaps because I don't feel I can do better. Now I sound like a narc... . I don't know. I'll bring this stuff up the next T appointment. Maybe I'll bite the $ bullet and explore this fr a while. Its not an utter lack of self esteem, but I think this has a lot to do with it. Maybe its as simple as I think unless I have that Rescuer/Soother prescence to offer someone, I'm not worthy enough to be loved.

[janey62]

Maybe its as simple as I think unless I have that Rescuer/Soother prescence to offer someone, I'm not worthy enough to be loved.

Hey Turkish, what an amazing thread.  Honest, searching and fearless! 

What strikes me is that you're dealing with this as if it had been a good long time, not just three weeks, since parting company with your ex.  Obviously you have a lifetime of insight and experience to draw on, but it's still early days.  I think you're very brave... . I'm only a month away from mine and it's still so raw. 

So much of what you've written and what others have said in response rings true for me too.   I've been reading and learning and had many  moments. 

What musicfan42 said about boundaries being constantly violated in childhood and not being able to react assertively also rang true.  I was either passive with my mother or aggressive.  But actually never assertive, and that leads to feelings of worthlessness and anger.

But mostly the quote above hit me.  I've got a history of rescuing male waifs, and its true, they do lose interest after a while and I'm left wondering if I am actually unloveable.  I think they lose interest though because they aren't getting the excitement buzz of being in a crazy relationship like the ones they're used to.  We offer stability but also the uncomfortable reality of having to maybe face, with our help, who they really are, they might have to be real?   When they realise this they are scared, disappointed and frustrated and begin to whip things up to create that drama?  I don't know? 

I do think though that we are loveable enough, we just have to allow someone to love us.  Allow someone to see our vulnerable side.

Maybe in not listening to what my gut is telling me in the beginning I am accepting another project, another waif, which I know and kind of understand and although it is potentially going to be painful, difficult and destructive, it's what I/we know.  The alternative, the thing we crave, stability, love, respect, kindness, is so much harder because we don't feel we deserve it?  I am not worthy, therefore I will accept less and fill the rescuer role because that makes me worthy... .

Dunno?

Janey x

[Turkish]

Maybe its as simple as I think unless I have that Rescuer/Soother prescence to offer someone, I'm not worthy enough to be loved.

Hey Turkish, what an amazing thread.  Honest, searching and fearless!  

What strikes me is that you're dealing with this as if it had been a good long time, not just three weeks, since parting company with your ex.  Obviously you have a lifetime of insight and experience to draw on, but it's still early days.  I think you're very brave... . I'm only a month away from mine and it's still so raw.  

We each deal with things in our own ways. The pwBPD is the common thread, and many of us share personality traits, but we are each our own. Yes, it's been 3 weeks since she left, but she "left" months ago, even though we were still co-habitating. My NC, as far as I was able, in the same house helped. Her behaviors helped me get over her. I still mourn the loss of my intact family. I think it will be a long time before I get over that.

What musicfan42 said about boundaries being constantly violated in childhood and not being able to react assertively also rang true.  I was either passive with my mother or aggressive.  But actually never assertive, and that leads to feelings of worthlessness and anger.

I just shut down in the face of high conflict. We never really fought so much (because I realized early on it got out of control and was counter-productive). I was like this as a child even when my mom adopted me at 2.5 yrs. Introverted, withdrawn. Though when I chose to engage with someone, usually adults, I was fine. People used to comment that I seemed much more mature than my years. Sure, I did child like things, but in speech, conversation and some mannerisms, I was years beyond my chronological age. When I hit puberty, much older women liked talking to me (could have been dangerous, but nothing weird happened). I also liked talking to elderly folk at the nursing homes my mom worked at when I was a young teen. For some reason, I just related to them.

I did easily attach, though, even when I was a toddler. And easily accepted that situations and even caregivers could change at any time. Out of sight, out of mind. I'm not BPD by any stretch, but I certainly even now in middle age, have lingering attachment issues. How it served me was to take pretty much any drama in stride. Due to my mother's issues with depression and some BPD traits, our lives were nothing short of drama and change: utter poverty, destitution and periodic homelessness from about 12-17. People who knew me during this period are nothing short of amazed I turned out so well-adjusted. I hear what they are saying, but I'm not surprised. It was just life as it was.

The other thing that contributed to my introversion was incessant bullying by my peers. I was first aware of this by pre-school age, thinking back. I have a genetic condition where I look different than other kids, though as an adult, no one could really tell unless they knew of it. I had it on all sides; the outcast, lonely. No father, no siblings, just a single child of a single mother who worked nights so though she took care of me, I learned to do for myself from a very young age. When my mom was engaged in being a mother, she did a good job. When not, I did for myself.

But mostly the quote above hit me.  I've got a history of rescuing male waifs, and its true, they do lose interest after a while and I'm left wondering if I am actually unloveable.  I think they lose interest though because they aren't getting the excitement buzz of being in a crazy relationship like the ones they're used to.  We offer stability but also the uncomfortable reality of having to maybe face, with our help, who they really are, they might have to be real?   When they realise this they are scared, disappointed and frustrated and begin to whip things up to create that drama?  I don't know?

Mine told me near the end that she had to leave because she felt like I was throwing her "sickness" (her term, I never called her that) in her face. So yes, I think we become big triggers at a certain point, either intentionally a little, or unintentionally. Thinking back on why the few gfs I had abandoned me... . I don't know. Perhaps the only thing we really had in common was the need. I'm cetainly not a boring person, and my uBPDx was turned on by my "manly" hobbies and adventurous spirit. Intellectually, we didn't have much in common (I read about a book a week. She, maybe one a year), but we found some common ground. Enough to start a family and make it work for a while. I could go on about our mismatch in other areas. Looking back, do you see something like this in your relationships? If the strongest bond is due to our Caretaker/Soother traits, then I think that is not nearly enough for long term stability, leaving aside the BPD behaviors.

I know I let her down in some key ways, but our gender roles were confusing. Me: more the female emotionally (except the need for the constant BPD validation. I don't need that, I just need to be treated decently and not have our plans sabotaged). I've actually been told that by a lot of women, which may be why a lot were attracted to me, even as just friends. She: more aggressive. I always wanted someone a bit more social and outgoing than I was. Darned if I didn't figure out early on that the person in that role in our r/s was me! She even called me a "social butterfly" once. That shocked me. She can be outgoing, but it is with an undercurrent of anxiety. One of my friends picked up on this "fakeness" she called it.

I do think though that we are loveable enough, we just have to allow someone to love us.  Allow someone to see our vulnerable side.

I never thought I could show vulerability to her (she accused me of this in the end). Yet I never felt safe with her either. Like she would attack me for not being enough of The Man. With her, it's a mixture of old world immigrant gender roles and American feminism. Unfortunately, instead of integrating the best aspects of both, she exhibited the worst aspects in my opinion. Expectations of and ironclad role on one side (with no room for error... . the lack of mercy), and devaluation on the other. As for someone else, I really don't know how to attract that. I really don't.

Maybe in not listening to what my gut is telling me in the beginning I am accepting another project, another waif, which I know and kind of understand and although it is potentially going to be painful, difficult and destructive, it's what I/we know.

I could probably find another waif. I turned down one at work who was way more obvious than my uBPDx, and was proud of myself for not jumping into that easy situation. I remember thinking, "I'm not a tool to help someone regain their lost young adulthood. Sure, she wants me to take her on my motorcycle, away for a weekend trip... . but does she want ME, or just what I can provide her to make her devalued self feel better? Do I want to jump into a situation where I will have to be the Rescuer all of the time?" No, so I rejected. Pat on back. Then a few months later meet the future mother of my children... . oops.

The alternative, the thing we crave, stability, love, respect, kindness, is so much harder because we don't feel we deserve it?  I am not worthy, therefore I will accept less and fill the rescuer role because that makes me worthy... .

We crave those things, perhaps, because they were sorely lacking in our childhoods (except in our heads). I project my inner parent to soothe my inner child. I already take care of myself, so where does that projection lead? To another child.

I am still thinking about the worth question. I would occasionally make offhand comments exhibiting less self-esteem, and it would get her upset. She would tell me I was worth it, but invalidated my feeling at the moment. It triggered her lack of self-worth, I realized later. She looked to me to "lead" both of us. Sorry, but I only have enough for myself. If I can't show even a little vulerability to my partner, then were is the reciprocity?

[janey62]

So yes, I think we become big triggers at a certain point, either intentionally a little, or unintentionally.

I feel almost as if I was set up to be the trigger.  I'm an addictions counsellor, work in rehab, and he knew that when he met me and said he admired me for it.  Then, out of nowhere the drunken binges started.  I was shocked and dismayed and felt obliged to be patient with him and go and rescue him - he would text me saying things like, 'it's probably best if I stay away because I'll only p!ss you off,' usually when he was somewhere he couldn't get back from unless I picked him up (he didn't drive).  Then would start the crying!  Cue tracking him down and finding him all unsteady and tearful and bringing him home and putting him to bed.  I wasn't disapproving, I was angry at being put in this situation and worried.  When drunk he would cry about the son he lost in his previous divorce. 

It seemed as time went on that he was doing the one thing he knew a) I couldn't condone and b) couldn't walk away from, then accusing me of trying to control him.  It was so twisted!

But actually it's the one thing I always think of when tempted to go back, that eventually I realised that I was the trigger, that he would do whatever it took to make me angry and disapproving, then accuse me of being angry and disapproving... . and I wouldn't want to go back to that, it was too frustrating.

Because I'm a really soft hearted and caring person finding myself in that position was unbearable.  This man who meant everything to me, with whom I had such a connection, was making me the persecutor to his victim.  I had to walk away.  Even if I tied to rescue him, he would somehow turn it around to me being the persecutor, perhaps because he felt he had nothing to lose he could play with no rules.