Staying 101 - From joining via coping to thriving

[an0ught]

 

this will be a series of posts aimed at helping member to get into the staying mindset and find their way around. One of the unifying themes you will find on the Staying board is that there is hope! Initially we all feel overwhelmed and intimidated but working through material here and interacting with others has helped many to improve their situation a lot and regain control. Will this board save your relationship - no - like many things in life this is unknown. Will it enable you to do plenty of healthy steps towards improving your relationship and yourself - yes.

For whom is this Staying board? For people with a (semi-)voluntary (semi-)peer relationship with person with BPD. We have partners of uBPDw as well as dBPDbf on the board - a dazzling alphabet soup which is explained here and while the board is focused mainly on romantic partners it also covers friend and business partner relationships. Are you allowed to post also on the Undecided board? Yes posting on undecided can be complementary. Generally we encourage members to work towards a direction and being clear about it as without having a direction there is a high risk to staying stuck. Of course you can also change direction when you see the need!

The material here is loosely build around the Staying Board LESSONS and will complement them by going stepwise at a reasonable pace to prevent you getting overwhelmed.

The best way to avoid getting overwhelmed is to stop reading and to start posting! What should you post about? It does not matter so much as long as you write on something you care. It matters however that you do write! It seems that writing is really useful for recovery and talking to friends just won't help as much.

Prof. Richard Wiseman in his book :59 seconds (website: www.59seconds.wordpress.com/ ) wrote:

A group of participants were asked to select a negative experience [... . ] One group of participants were then asked to have a long chat with a supportive experimenter (* ) about the event, while a second group were invited to chat about a far more mundane topic - a typical day. [... . ] Participants who had spent time talking about their traumatic event thought the chat had been helpful. However, the various questionnaires told a very different story. In reality the chat had no significant impact at all. [... . ] they might just as well have been chatting about a typical day.

In several studies, participants who have experienced a traumatic event have been encouraged to spend just a few minutes each day writing in a diary-type account of their deepest thoughts and feelings about it [12]. For example, in one study participants who had just been made redundant were asked to reflect upon their deepest thoughts and feelings about their job loss, including how it had affected both their personal and professional lives. Although these types of exercises were  both speedy and simple, the results revealed a remarkable boost in their psychological and physical well-being, including a reduction in health problems and an increase in self-esteem and happiness. The results left psychologists with something of a mystery. Why would talking about a traumatic experience have almost no effect but writing about it yield such significant benefits?

From a psychological perspective, talking and writing are very different. Talking can often be somewhat unstructured, disorganized, even chaotic. In contrast, writing encourages the creation of a story line and structure that help people make sense of what has happened and work towards a solution... . 



[12] for a review of this work, see S. J. Lepore and J.M. Smyth (eds). The Writing Cure: How Expressive Writing Promotes Health and Emotional Well-Being. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association

(* ) not a T

Why on earth would someone want to stay with a person with BPD (pwBPD)? It is instructive to look at the thread Reasons for staying. What was remarkable is that it took 3(!) days for the thread to get a first response (but when that came people opened up). People do question their choice to stay. It is not so popular and most of us have been confronted by others on that choice and got defensive. Our families may pressure us to leave, a friend may have said something or a therapist (T) has suggested alternatives to staying. Deep down we know they got a point but then deep down we also know we got a point too. To allow staying board members to safely express some frustration without fearing they fundamental choice is questions over and over again we have a *no run message* policy on the Staying board. When feeling pushed or getting somehow uncomfortable - don't confront it yourself on the board but simply notify a staff member with the "Notify moderator" button at the bottom of every post. Conflicts are resolved in a way that everyone will be ok in the long run so don't be afraid to raise a concern.

Staying takes consistent work and benefits from commitment. It took a while to get into this mess and it will take a lot of steps to get out again. But what do you commit to? Do you have a fixed goal e.g. "I'm committed to stay with my sick partner and do anything to support them"? Do you have a framework in your mind e.g. "I do my very best and will accept anything that follows from that"?

Consider posting in the reasons for staying thread and if you have not done so please post a short intro on you and your situation on the new member board here. Your first post will help other members to have a fuller context for their support - joining the staying board starts actually over there - but please come back here  

Here are a few pictures on how to navigate the site best:

The boards relevant for staying: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/images/mb/NavigationBasicsBoards.png

Finding your old posts in your profile: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/images/mb/NavigationBasicsProfile.png

Getting around on a board and posting: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/images/mb/NavigationBasicsBoard.png

Your first step towards improving the situation and your lot is to find your voice and post - share your story on new member and start a new thread on Staying or simply relate to an ongoing story by "Replying" to it.

Again - welcome to Staying  

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[an0ught]

Knowledge is power!

We are better in coping with what we understand. The first posts here will deepen the understanding and are less practical but still important. A treasure trove of information on BPD useful for Staying can be found in LESSON 1 and you would do well to dive into all the workshops listed there and go through them. It can be a bit dense and context may help digestion.

BPD is first of all perplexing from the outside. So much so that for a long time it was difficult to define let alone to treat. In some sense it has all the "craziness" rolled into one bundle - depression, suicidal, acting out, sexual, body dysmorphic, paranoia, disassociation and on and on. This makes BPD hard to diagnose especially as the symptoms are often highly context dependent and not obvious in casual meetings. Also some T's prefer not to diagnose and label BPD for various reasons and then there are insurance aspects which may make other diagnosis more attractive. A common diagnose is bipolar disorder instead of BPD or also frequent BPD instead of bipolar. Diagnosis matters in the sense that some diagnosis lead to a medication regime (bipolar) and some more to a therapeutic treatment (BPD).

There are now proven effective therapeutic treatments for BPD with the most well researched one called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). There are other working treatments as well and as BPD is highly individual and often comes with significant other problems guidance from an experienced T is needed. The effectiveness of treatment strongly depends on the person wanting to learn and change. While we love our partners much and might be willing to even pressure them - we can't make them want to change. Finding a way for our loved one to reach out to a T is often possible but the ways to get there highly individual, situational and often take time. Once in the hands of a T a relationship between T and SO needs to be built and that can be a confusing time for the pwBPD and us with random odd behavior and remarks are emerging. Sometimes is may well be best to seek out a T for yourself as dealing with the daily drama does take its toll on your own stability - on which everything else rests and which needs to be protected. Couple therapy is not recommended - it often leads to more conflict in a BPD relationship - still it can be a way to lower the bar to reach out to a (carefully selected) T and get the ball rolling.

We all wished the term "Borderline Personality Disorder" would not exist. It sounds awfully (anyone wants a Personality that is broken ?), is misleading, is negative labeling and that perception gets in the way of proper diagnose and thus treatment. How much easier would it be if there was another term? I find it often easier to think of it as "Emotional regulation disorder" + a few other problems. This focuses the attention to a root cause of the illness and it can be easier to admit to have some emotional problems - we all are human. Let us look at terms that show up often in discussions:

Emotional dysregualation: We all have emotions - sometimes more and sometimes less. We also have a rational mind - cognition that works separate from the emotions. Separate is not really true emotions are influencing our thinking and decision making. When emotions however go into overdrive to the very max. then the rational part of our mind shuts down. Thinking stops and decisions become ruled by emotions - a black & white respective fight or flight type thinking takes over. This is true of everyone in extreme situations and makes us human. Typically regular people recover after a short time when emotions balance out and thinking then starts taking over again.

For pwBPD being in a state of dysregulation is much more frequent than for us, can often be deeper and they tend to recover from it less quickly. There are probably biological reasons and there are learned behavioral reasons for this. Being dysregulated has short term consequences like doing extreme acts and has long term consequences in e.g. how relationships tend to unfold.

Dysfunctional behavior: Behavior that is contradictory and not fixing the problem. When hungry I feel not good and could look for some food - or I could blame the people around me for me feeling unwell. The latter behavior will not accomplish much but can sometimes work a great cost - the environment gets alarmed, generous people donate time and effort, food is identified as a problem and provided. Over time it backfires and unlearning the toddler behavior becomes then a painful process if it is ever undertaken. Dysfunctional behavior is not rational and it is not surprising that it happens often during dysregulation (= way too much emotions). There are other drivers for dysfunctional behavior like anxiety and shame which also play a role. Dysfunctional behavior is not only a domain of pwBPD - we partners can do that too. The good news however is that we typically have a better

Executive mindset: We tend to be able to make longer term plans and are better able to stick to them.

When learning about BPD behaviors keep in mind that a lot is driven by emotions and when emotions overtake there is a wide and varying range of unusual behavior. It gives us relief to see and recognize these behaviors - at least something we can now partially understand. There may be special strategies to handle specific behaviors and if something is a key issue in your relationship learn everything about it! And then ask on the board to learn even more - writing is learning - responding is learning - is overcoming isolation and making your mind go forward - actions will follow as will improvement. By some very extreme behavior we may be threated or endangered and then we need to protect ourselves. Some fears are justified and some are just fears - if in doubt safety first.

A key insight which revolutionized BPD therapy was that purely focusing on the behavior is doctoring on symptoms giving some improvements - however focusing on getting emotions under better control would yield additional significant and board improvements. This insight helps us as while we cope with an array of confusing and often contradictory symptoms and it gives us an idea where consistent behavior on our side can provide effective support. In the long run a therapy for our loved one can provide lasting relief but in the short to medium term changing our behavior will the single most important source of relief and it can be quite effective! The next posts will look deeper in how this works in detail.

Knowledge is power and with power comes responsibility. We must not attempt to treat our partners! Even with all the knowledge and working practice of a T this would be ethically wrong and it very likely would practically go wrong. On the other hand we are part of a relationship and BPD is an illness that affects not just the pwBPD but also the relationship and to a degree us. A good rule of thumb is to focus on ourselves and our side of the relationship. In fact this is all we ever really control - everything beyond that is indirect control. It sounds limiting to restrict us to our side but it means putting 100% of your energy into a lever with 100% effectiveness.

Read more on the different aspects of BPD in LESSON 1

[an0ught]

Emotions, emotions - does thinking matter at all?

We are constantly interacting with our environment and these interactions elicit feelings. We like some stuff that happens to us and we dislike other.



The picture above simply illustrates that we deal with emotions constantly. We may deal with them immediately or sometimes it takes a while to deal with them and they load our system. Most of us are aware (camera) under how much pressure they are. When realizing that we are struggling we make a decision (computer) and take action (hand) e.g. by talking a walk and get some fresh air which relieves pressure. That way our mind interacts with the emotions and keeps the system in balance.

While the system is simple a lot can go wrong. We can fail to recognize we are under too much pressure or overreact to minor pressure. We can make the wrong decision leading to more pressure. We can fail in implementing relief measures or over-implementing them so they cause other worse pressure. Any of these failures are somehow human and have happened to us once in a while. A consistent mode of failure however prevents one to process the emotions and leads to overflowing emotions... .

Too much or unregulated emotions is typically for a pwBPD. What is even worse is that once a certain emotional threshold is reach the cognitive abilities of everyone suffers and again a pwBPD is likely to suffer significant impairment which often gets into their way of helping themselves.



Provided we can still somehow reach them we can support them through validation and easing their emotional pressure. In these stressed situations a pwBPD is particularly sensitive to additional hard to process emotions experienced when invalidated. Invalidation impact is a lot bigger than validation relief and it takes several validations to cancel out an invalidation. Getting validation right takes practice and mis-step can quickly lead to overflow. When we see overflow we better step away before slipping in the spill (boundaries).

Generally it is a good idea to invest in validation continuously to avoid coming close to the tipping point. A healthy relationship has a ratio of 5 to 1 of validating to invalidating exchanges. Most of our stressed relationships are far away from it so there is some way to go.

Learn more about invalidation and validation and practice validation in Validation exercises

[an0ught]

How to validate?

To help with visualizing how to properly use validation, Marsha Linehan, PhD (the developer of Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) has broken validation down into its key components.

Stay Awake

At its most basic, all you really have to do is listen and nod.

Staying awake requires you to pay attention and ask objective, probing questions - basically that you demonstrate that you're paying attention to the person who is talking. Lean forward, nod your head, ask questions, and show you are paying attention.

Warning: It's critical not to be judgmental about what the person is saying to you. Judgements are forms of criticism, that you view something as "wrong" or "bad". A pwBPD can often see the changes in our faces when we have judgmental thoughts. To avoid judgements you need to pay complete attention to what they are saying. It's called being mindful. Pay attention to facts to help prevent you from forming an opinion or evaluating (judging).

Accurate Reflection

Accurate reflection requires you to communicate that you've heard the person accurately. This can be done by repeating what the person said, though it can be better to paraphrase so you don't sound like a parrot. This communicates to the person that what he is experiencing is universal enough for you "to get it", a critical part since most pwBPD feel so misunderstood by others. It shows that you are listening to what they are saying.

Stating the Unarticulated

This is a form of mind reading. It requires you to create a hypothesis about what you believe the person is "not" telling you. The emotions driving a persons words or actions.  The hidden message.

You do this by asking a question, essentially guessing if "blank" is accurate.

Example: This works especially when the person is dysregulated and not expressing themselves clearly. You have to be willing to be wrong though, which shows that you haven't quite got it yet, so then ask more questions to reach understanding.

Validating in Terms of Personal History or Biology

We are what's happened in our lives. On some level, based on our history, our actions make sense. If you ever lived through a tornado, you would have a higher response to the warning sirens than others, based on your history. Letting a person know that their behavior makes sense based on their past experiences shows understanding.

Our physical problems also impact (thus explain) how we behave. A person who has a bad back has difficulty sitting for long periods of time. Making reference to their limitations shows understanding and empathy.

Normalizing

One of the most important levels is to communicate that others (those without BPD) would have the same response. People with BPD have the ongoing experience of being different - outsiders in their own worlds. When you normalize  what they are feeling you find a way to communicate that what is going on for the pwBPD is the experience of being human, that anyone in the same situation would feel the same way. This is powerful. Some key phrases that can be used are:

"We all have moments when we feel that way"

"Of course you think that: anyone would in your situation"

"I would feel that way too"

"You know that is such a normal reaction"

"It makes sense that you did that. We all have those moments"

Of course, there are some things you can't normalize, such as suicidal behavior. Don't normalize behavior that is not normal - that's validating the invalid.

Radical Genuineness

The key to all validation is to be genuine. To be radically genuine is to ensure that you don't "fragilize", condescend, or talk down to the person you are trying to validate. You don't want to treat them any differently than you would anyone else in a similar situation. They aren't fragile, and to treat them as such can be seen as condescending.

The last point may be the most important point - genuine but not taking this as an excuse to be rude or dumping our stuff onto others. We have a lot of conflicts in our relationships and often it is easier to hide, distort and not present a valid view. The fear we are feeling has a big impact on how we act and communicate and being aware and countering that is important. In that spirit Fruzzetti advices:

- validate the valid

- do not invalidate the valid

- do not validate the invalid

- and if really needed invalidate the invalid (if possible use SET)

In practice this means paying close attention to the situation and emotional state the other person is experiencing in the moment. What is validating in one situation may make another situation worse.



A relationship takes time and commitment to turn around. Check out the Pledge

Validation is a skill, practice matters:Validation exercises

[an0ught]

Stemming the tide of emotions going our way.

Upon learning about validation common questions are:

- am I cuddling or manipulating the pwBPD?

- I'm fed up, I'm invalidated all the time and don't want to give. PwBPD does not deserve me putting in the effort.

- validation or boundaries - I rather choose the latter or the former.

- what good is validating doing, it is only a band-aid.

- what is my role in the dysfunctional communication

- I'm picking up the gauntlet and fight back

- How did I end up being so changed

- Why bother with details - I rather learn the skills from the LESSONS and be done with it.

The following picture may be helpful to think though some points that may help answering those questions. For any stability to exist there usually needs to be some feedback otherwise thing run of course or escalate. Imagine 3 loops with different colors describing feedback the person handles themselves and two alternative loops involving us.  In a healthy person the green loop (self regulation) is quite active and allows the person to keep their emotions mostly in check. In a pwBPD this loop is impaired (see pictures above). The other loops run through us - it is there where we are affected and our actions have an effect on the pwBPD.



The red loop is dysfunctional which is a fancy word for it is doing something but not being healthy. It works by forcing the other person to provide a validating response. It can be entirely harmless like laughing loud and long until the other starts laughing too. This can be great, we are getting pulled along and join a positive emotion. It is however easier to provoke negative validation. If one kicks another person long and hard enough usually one gets a kick back. That a simple and reliable way to get the validation that the people out there are in the business of kicking you. Do this often enough and people will be inclined to kick back quite quickly. Now pwBPD of course don't run around kicking people but they have a knack of invalidating people. And invalidation begets invalidation. After a while their environment turns from supportive to invalidating.

So what is happening here on our side? One obvious effect is that we become more prone to invalidation and make it a habit. Another one is that we are getting confused about our own emotions. The arrow for the invalidation loop is drawn entering the back of our mind to illustrate that these provoked reactions are not involving much deliberations but are more instinctive.What we feel in these moments is not based on our reality but the result of the forcing action of the pwBPD. When this happens our own emotions can become confused. We are also getting over time more reactive and we feel like we have lost control.

A validating response (blue loop back path) is one way to break this dysfunctional dynamic. It provides in that moment the feedback the pwBPD needs to regulate ("you really look like want to kick everyone involved badly". Validation is relieving pressure and so inclination to try using the red loop. But there is more to it. We deny the pwBPD controlling us in that moment. That is breaking an unhealthy habit it piecemeal manner.

Another way to break the habit of forcing us to provide validation through invalidation is with boundaries. Many members report significant reduction in abuse once the first boundaries are in place. The way boundaries are defined on this board is with a focus on managing our own behavior - limiting ourselves. Boundaries cause the red loop to become unreliable (we can't be baited into a fight) and this is making other ways more attractive to get the validation needed. We may see e.g. the pwBPD crying more often what would be a healthier way to cope.

The red loop plays a big role in the life of the pwBPD. It goes through us, has huge negative side effects and we have every right and even duty to resist that. However once we stop allowing ourselves being baited into fights the need of the pwBPD for external validation continues to exist. Emotional validation is a key human need and loosing a major supply (red loop) other avenues to provide validation need to be pursued - some healthier like crying and some unhealthier. From a perspective of a staying partner it would be sad if one dysfunction is replaced by a worse one. Us providing validation (blue) is  filling the gap we created by denying us being controlled. It is entirely normal and healthy for a partner to provide the other with validation - the amount required in a relationship with a pwBPD however will be high, particularly at the beginning of making changes.

In a healthy relationship the blue loop provides validation in both directions. We can not control what is coming our way but we can control how we react to it. Consistently rejecting being controlled, being authentic and validating we provide a healthy role model that we hope invites emulation. While we see a lot of wrong on the other side we have to keep mindful to respect our partner who often lacks good boundaries and do not set examples for controlling behavior.

Would it not be enough to do the two-step dance of validation and boundaries? Yes and no. Knowing all what in this post we still will have not more than validation and boundaries at our disposal. We hope however that over time there will be shifts in power, control and communication in the relationship and we have to tune our skill usage. Our postings on the board can be a good way to track progress and feedback from others can be a valuable sanity check. Changing ourselves takes time - we are creatures of habit and haven limited awareness of what we really do.

We play a big role in the dysfunction and it is important to reflect on this role. Taking more responsibility for our own emotions and protecting them. Stepping out of a reactive co-dependent pattern which may in some cases pre-date our relationship or even caused us to enter it. Knowing what we want to change in ourselves is the first step in actually changing ourselves.

[Olinda]

Thanks for bumping this. I needed to read it again.

I am particularly interested in making my own validating responses more common and my own emotional regulation (by not taking the bait) to be a priority. 

I still struggle with seeking validation from uBPDfiancee and also feeling a pathological need to 'fix' her strong negative emotions, letting them impact me negatively.

Therapy for us as a couple is this Friday and I have my own session for individual therapy on Thursday.  So crossing my fingers that we can have more peace in our relationship.

[Littleleft]

Thanks for giving me a link to this thread an0ught.  I suspect I will be re-reading it a lot in the future!

I've learnt some very useful things about validation and also, through clicking onto other links, about JADEing - which I'd worked out a little while ago, but is good to know I'm doing the right thing in avoiding going down this road.

On that note though, if things are coming up in my SO's rages that are really wrong and I wouldn't want him to carry on thinking that way (things that I would previously have tried to put him straight on there and then) is it best to try to bring it up at a later point when he's calmer?  I have tried this and it hasn't necessarily gone well in the past, but it just doesn't feel right to basically keep my mouth shut all the time whilst he's saying all kinds of out of order and inaccurate things about me.

So should I bring these things up when everything's calmer (if there is such a time !) and if so, what's the best way to go about doing so without being invalidating?

Thanks!

[ziniztar]

So should I bring these things up when everything's calmer (if there is such a time !) and if so, what's the best way to go about doing so without being invalidating?

In my opinion and experience, don't. What good can come out of it? Think of yourself when you're absolutely pissed. You can call someone a #((%(# or a #()#$( (fill in the blanks). A few hours a later you know that they're not that bad and that you overreacted. The words are a vehicle for the emotion. Taking them literally will only make things worse. It would be like getting angry at someone calling you a female dog and discussing that you're actually not a female dog. That wouldn't make sense either.

What you can do is set boundaries of the abuse or hurtful things he says. Whenever you feel a hurtful comment is made, you can decide how to react. Do you stay (and learn him it is ok to talk to you that way?). Or do you calmly state you will not tolerlate this type of behaviour and that you will speak to him again once he has calmed down? The choice is yours.  

[Mono No Aware]

This thread is a treasure trove. Thank you!

[vortex of confusion]

I have been reading this thread and others and I keep coming back to the question, "What about me?" I have tried to validate him as often as possible. I know that I shouldn't need external validation for my thoughts, opinions, etc. My problem is that I am not as strong as I should be and I find myself wondering, "What about me? When do I get to be weak? When will you care about me?" I know those are self defeating questions. I have been so strong for so long and have kept things together. I have written all about micro messages and ways to improve relationships between parent/child. I know that I can't change anyone but myself.

How does one navigate the conflicting messages of: "The only one you can change is yourself." and "You shouldn't have to change for your partner." Maybe I am too enmeshed to see straight right now but how do I manage to validate him without invalidating myself. I try not to get into that push/pull dynamic but there are times when I feel like validating him is basically invalidating myself.

[ziniztar]

Hi vortex,

Truely a tough question that we all struggle with I guess. What I've learnt from my T in the past few weeks that I should stop being considerate of someone else's emotions. They are not my responsibility.

You are completely right to say that validating him can be invalidating to you - as you desire some comfort from his side but are not getting it. Two important things:

1) it is a choice to stay, knowing that your partner probably is less capable of being there for you than the other way around. A lot of energy is wasted feeling victimized by that as this will not change quickly over time, unless treatment is sought and even then change is painfully slowly.

2) why the hell would you validate him if you don't feel like it? There are a lot of ways to remove yourself from his mood, without being invalidating. With validation, it is key to first stop invalidating as it escalates the situation. In that case he is not only worse of, but you are too. So in order to reach your own goal of a more peaceful environment (as you have chosen freely to stay), is is wise to stop invalidating. Once you have mastered that, start thinking about validating. Babysteps  .

Did that shed any other light at all? 

[vortex of confusion]

2) why the hell would you validate him if you don't feel like it? There are a lot of ways to remove yourself from his mood, without being invalidating. With validation, it is key to first stop invalidating as it escalates the situation. In that case he is not only worse of, but you are too. So in order to reach your own goal of a more peaceful environment (as you have chosen freely to stay), is is wise to stop invalidating. Once you have mastered that, start thinking about validating. Babysteps  .

Did that shed any other light at all? 

Because he craves that validation. He is very childlike in his quest for validation. I have been working on NOT invalidating him for years. I feel like I have that part mastered. I have read about non-violent communication and other communication methods over the years trying to figure out how to be more effective at communicating with him.

Really, I don't want validation from him as much as I want to stop being invalidated. I am sure that doesn't make much sense. Whether I validate him or not, he finds subtle ways to invalidate me. I think that may be the source of the confusion for me. Even when I try to validate by staying neutral, I find myself getting sucked in to the point of simply agreeing with him to get him to stop talking about the subject. He is like a little kid in that he will "talk" about things until it gets to the point where I give up and agree with him. I think it has a lot to do with setting boundaries as well. If I could find a way to enforce my boundaries by staying neutral or putting an end to a discussion with invalidating him, then that might help.

How does one handle the person that is relentless but is relentless in a "nice" way? There was something that he wanted me to do. I originally agreed to it but changed my mind because it was not something that a reasonable person would agree to do. I made myself sick over the whole thing. I was crying in the bathtub and he was in there comforting me and telling me how much I would enjoy doing this thing. No matter how much I tried to find ways to get out of doing this thing, he kept pushing it. I ended up doing the thing and have felt horrible about it ever since. Yes, I made the choice to do the thing because it was easier to do the thing than it was to try to assert myself and say no. I will sometimes get so caught up in his reality because of the way he nags and continually brings stuff up that I don't really know how to stop invalidating myself while still validating him.

[Inquisitive1]

I just read the second post and found it really helpful at summarizing some of the insights I've picked up here and from the Walking on Eggshells book.

This quote is a great brief description of the core problem underlying BPD.

"When emotions go into overdrive to the very max. then the rational part of our mind shuts down. Thinking stops and decisions become ruled by emotions - a black & white ... .This is true of everyone in extreme situations and makes us human. Typically regular people recover after a short time when emotions balance out ... .For pwBPD being in a state of dysregulation is much more frequent ... .deeper and they tend to recover from it less quickly."

Later the post reinforced the idea of looking for the emotion underlying a dysfunctional behavior and then addressing that emotion. I think this sometimes helps the pwBPD get their emotions under better control, thus decreasing the dysfunctional behavior. 

This morning I calmly asked my wife some financial questions. She got angry. Prior to understanding BPD, I probably would have gotten angry too and this would have led to a fight... .with nothing gained. Now, I understand that bringing up scary things like money elicit fear and shame in her that leads her to lash out. So, I made my point and shrugged off her angry response. Later, she came to me, apologized, and said she was happy I was dealing with our finances.

[hurthusband]

all of this seems so hard.  it seems that we have to ignore our own pain and feelings because it might invalidate them and their behavior which is not fair... .

some of course is just a moment of "o that makes sense", but some just seems so hard... .

I know when I try and listen sometimes she says I am not validating but just repeating what she says, but sometimes it makes no sense... .or just is plain wrong

like other day... .wife had gone with kids out of town for 2 days.  during that time neighbor had gone to visit her family.  my wife likes going and was upset she did not go the next weekend and invite her to go with her.

I am thinking... .they might have invited but you are out of town and they did because teh husband was out of town fishing so it just worked out this weekend rather than next.  I expressed "it must be hard feeling like nobody cares and does their own thing when they said they would take you"... .but honestly, I do not think her expectation was fair in teh first place.  I know she felt that they were abandoning her, but that is not what they meant at all.  By saying that I feel that I am basically saying that I agree they abandoned her... .her sister flat out said it was not fair and invalidated her making her mad

[an0ught]

(In-)validate the (In-)Valid

There are four combinations possible and at the beginning it is easy to loose perspective and get stuck. First let's start with priorities - what order should they be considered?

  1) Don't invalidate the valid,

  2) Validate the valid,

  3) Don't validate the invalid,

  4) Selectively  and carefully invalidate the invalid.

1) Don't invalidate the valid

Avoiding invalidation is incredibly important. In a healthy relationship validation dominates invalidation 5:1. Invalidation pushes a pwBPD quickly to an emotional excitement level where reason fails. But when we invalidate the valid it becomes truly toxic - we sabotage sense making and the weak regulation mechanisms that do exist.

It is easy to invalidate the valid: We may dislike our SO crying so we tell them to cheer up. We may believe the reasoning of the pwBPD faulty (life is miserable and there will never be an end to it) and we tell them they should feel different. We usually run the risk of invalidating the valid if we forget that the pwBPD as a totally different perspective - we are tempted to say something that is valid from our perspective but the pwBPD's world may be dominated by very different concerns. The sun may be shining but the a recent trigger brought some sad emotions up that now dominate totally - and we don't even have a clue.

A good anti-dote here is to remember that validation starts with acceptance.

2) Validate the valid

Now this seems obvious. Still reaching out when someone is crying and touching them or saying it's o.k. you cry is not always the easiest move. Validating positive situations is also important - cooling down someone who feels over the top to a level where reason is available can help to stabilize the positive situation before it flips to dispair. Some think validation is like candy and should be given sparingly. I see it more like a piggy bank - try to fill it at any opportunity you can. In the long run you may be rich and in the short run it can save you over unanticipated crisis.

3) Don't validate the invalid

This is important - we don't want to endorse unhealthy behavior. The real risk here is that we validate the invalid habitually as it is an easy short term way out. Some people take this rule however more important than the first two rules which is sadly mistaken. Fear sets in - fear of making mistakes. Here it is critical to maintain perspective. We are not perfect and wrongly validating once is a while will happen and usually is less damaging than wrongly invalidating.

a) validation is about the moment. We are usually not really in the big decision making game. Yes, we hear that we will be divorced or that dynamite will be ordered to blow themselves up. But we are not dealing with words expressing facts and serious commitments but words expressing emotions. Our words don't need to be meant for long term either - they are for the moment. This is not to say we should be lying but we should be lightweight on commitments/hard facts.

b) we may see the statement by the pwBPD as invalid but isn't that a form of b&w thinking on our side? Is our own emotional excitement strengthening the judgmental part in us? Often there there is truth in what a pwBPD says even when big parts of the statement is way off. We can focus our validation on that valid part strengthening what is right.

c) Often better is taking a step back and not responding directly but responding to e.g. behavior instead of words or earlier valid behavior or words. That way we step out of the ping-pong and take control of the exchange turning it into a more constructive direction.

d) a-c are really critical to stop the fighting. Remember invalid statements by pwBPD are often used by them to elicit an invalidating response from us (to confirm their suspicion that we are hostile). Perspective is everything.

4) Selectively  and carefully invalidate the invalid

Imagine a house on fire and someone is running past you into a dead end corridor. You are a firefighter coming in and know for sure that there is only a brick wall in the direction the person is running and the exit is in the opposite direction and free. It is high time to invalidate that person. You probably yell to make sure you are heard. You probably startle the other person. But what other choice do you have?

Most situations are better handled by using SET or simply validation. This allows the pwBPD to come to own conclusions on which they then can build in the future.