Attachment musings

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I was thinking about things tonight and wanted to share a few thoughts.

I adopted my youngest from another country when he was 3 years old.

Now the orphanage he lived in was a "better" one but not good compared to our standards here in the us.  Too many kids, not enough help.

Anyway when we first brought him home he was definately not attached to us.  He would happily leave with anyone .  He was indiscriminate with his affection, he acted out enormously for attention, he would split us actually when we didn't do what he wanted.  He needed much firmer boundaries than what I would ever believe possible in order to have some sembelence of control.

In the orphanage his boundaries were exceptionally rigid.  Not having that at home made for some seriously crazy days.  He had zero sense of object permanence.  He would literally try to eat until he made himself sick out of fear of there not being food for him.

Now we were prepared for some of these things.  I had done my research and spoken with many other adoptive families.  And now over 4 years later he is very attached.

But all of this made me see the similarities in my ex.   I know that BPD is an attachment disorder... . but I never really put it together until tonight. 

It was not something he could control... . he very much craved being lived but was also so terrified of it.  He wanted to be good... . but it took him a long time before he felt safe enough to trust us. 

Now he is my son... . and was 3 years old.  I knew that none of it was his fault.  We provided the live and the security and the safety for him all the while.  And because of this he did attach well.  But it took time.

My ex is not 3.  She is not my child and she is an adult.  However I still can blame her for the things she did.  Or perhaps more importantly for the way she is.  But that is not fair as she is no more emotionally mature than the three year old orphan I met overseas.

The lesson I suppose I take from it is that I am sad for her.  I know she hurt me but that was not necessarily because she wanted to.  And in many regards the fact that I became involved with her shortly after I brought my son home is also telling.  I wanted very much to rescue her.

I went thru a lot with my son.  I cried a whole lotta tears but I never blamed him... . it was up to me as mom to find a new way to help him, a new way to make him feel safe etc.

I did the same thing with my ex.

But I couldn't rescue her.

I am kind of blindsided by this a bit tonight and my thoughts aren't cohesive right now... . so input would be greatly appreciated.

[Allmessedup]

I was thinking about things tonight and wanted to share a few thoughts.

I adopted my youngest from another country when he was 3 years old.

Now the orphanage he lived in was a "better" one but not good compared to our standards here in the us.  Too many kids, not enough help.

Anyway when we first brought him home he was definately not attached to us.  He would happily leave with anyone .  He was indiscriminate with his affection, he acted out enormously for attention, he would split us actually when we didn't do what he wanted.  He needed much firmer boundaries than what I would ever believe possible in order to have some sembelence of control.

In the orphanage his boundaries were exceptionally rigid.  Not having that at home made for some seriously crazy days.  He had zero sense of object permanence.  He would literally try to eat until he made himself sick out of fear of there not being food for him.

Now we were prepared for some of these things.  I had done my research and spoken with many other adoptive families.  And now over 4 years later he is very attached.

But all of this made me see the similarities in my ex.   I know that BPD is an attachment disorder... . but I never really put it together until tonight. 

It was not something he could control... . he very much craved being lived but was also so terrified of it.  He wanted to be good... . but it took him a long time before he felt safe enough to trust us. 

Now he is my son... . and was 3 years old.  I knew that none of it was his fault.  We provided the live and the security and the safety for him all the while.  And because of this he did attach well.  But it took time.

My ex is not 3.  She is not my child and she is an adult.  However I still can blame her for the things she did.  Or perhaps more importantly for the way she is.  But that is not fair as she is no more emotionally mature than the three year old orphan I met overseas.

The lesson I suppose I take from it is that I am sad for her.  I know she hurt me but that was not necessarily because she wanted to.  And in many regards the fact that I became involved with her shortly after I brought my son home is also telling.  I wanted very much to rescue her.

I went thru a lot with my son.  I cried a whole lotta tears but I never blamed him... . it was up to me as mom to find a new way to help him, a new way to make him feel safe etc.

I did the same thing with my ex.

But I couldn't rescue her.

I am kind of blindsided by this a bit tonight and my thoughts aren't cohesive right now... . so input would be greatly appreciated.

[seeking balance]

Hi AMU,

You are correct, the skills are similar to validating and "rewiring" the pathways in the brain regarding emotions and attachment in adopted children and pwBPD.  I am in the process of adopting and there are mandatory classes on this very subject.

DBT is really the adult version of this.

I am with you in that I find it much easier to emotionally handle a child rather than a partner. 

Kinda cool when the dots all start connecting, huh?

Peace,

SB

[Turkish]

Hi Allmessed up, congratulations on doing the right thing for you son and "fixing" a situation which needed attention and love. I was also adopted by my mom when I was 2.3 years old. I did have attachment issues, was withdrawn at times having learned to self soothe, and that my caregivers could change at any time (parents (who were drug and alcohol addicts)-->grandparents/aunt-->foster care-->mom). I related well to adults rather than other children. And it surprised my mom how quickly I attached to her, even accepting my new name within the space of two months. It gave me my own issues, and even in adulthood, I realized how easily I could attach and form friendships with people, and then when life's circumstances came up, I could easily move on. Good to navigate a chaotic life (which my mom gave us due to her own issues), but ultimately not good overall. It makes me happy to read stories like yours though, as hanging around a lot of other adoptive families as a kid, I knew there were so many tragic stories out there, some even no matter how loving the parents were. Good for you!

My ex is not 3.  She is not my child and she is an adult.  However I still can blame her for the things she did.  Or perhaps more importantly for the way she is.

This is the confusing part... . to interact with an adult who emotionally is closer to what you described, especially when triggered. Do you see the similarities in your character that led you to adopt your son and also led you into your BPD r/s? My mom rescued a waif (me). Long after I moved out, I saw this tendency of hers to rescue other waifs (adults whose parents had all but abandoned them), so she repeated the same pattern for decades after I left the house. Aside from my Ex's uBPD, and my mom's depression and BPD tendencies (less than my Ex), my mom never got along with uBPDx, because my uBPDx was strongly attached to her own mother. My mom relates well to abandoned women, but my ex was abandoned by her father. Thus, my mom could never get the fact that she needed to be a MIL, not a mother. Friction and perceived rejection from the beginning. It didn't help that my Ex can also be mean and disrespectful, either.

My T had an interesting insight: he said that maybe i got some of my rescuer tendencies from my mom. Wow. Never, ever thought of that, I thought it was "just" me in relation to my mother.


Turkish

[seeking balance]

Turkish,

I don't want to hijack this thread and you shared some really interesting attachment things in your own life especially being adopted - my guess is your own attachment relations can help a lot of people in your own thread.

Dan Segal is great in explaining the 4 styles and how it plays out as a cause/effect in the parent and child.  It is only with intense therapy by both parent and child that a "secure" attachment style can be retaught.  It would be great to hear more from you on this and even how you are changing how you parent.

Again, your details might be great in a new thread so AMU can get feedback related to her in the thread she started.

Cheers,

SB

[Allmessedup]

Sb

Congratulations on your upcoming adoption!  I know full well how hard it is to adopt and the issues surrounding it, but it is so unbelievably worth it:). It's an amazing journey!  You are blessed.

I too went thru all the classes... . I read all the books.  I was determined to do all that I could to make the transition for him to be seamless.  It wasn't, but we made it all the same!

The dots connected so much last night:). I am still processing this but it helped greatly in getting me took at things objectively!

[seeking balance]

The dots connected so much last night:). I am still processing this but it helped greatly in getting me took at things objectively!

I found that when I could get through the facts - I was able to grieve the real stuff.  It doesn't stop the pain of grief, but it kinda makes it make more sense rather than be so abstract.

Sometimes, these things are hard to put into words - it is only when someone is going through something similar that it makes sense... . this topic is like that for me.

Kudos to you for not being afraid of your emotions to process them.

[Allmessedup]

Turkish,

Thanks for the validation!

I too have met families with horror stories that had nothing to do with the amount of love they gave... . it is incredible how lack of attachment can be so disastrous to so many!

You asked me some hard questions... thank you!  Questions that I have struggled with

I hugely identify as a rescuer.  I adopted my son though not to rescue but to expand my family with a piece I was missing.  However the pull to an orphanage in a poverty stricken country vs another way definately fits my tendencies.  However I see it as him rescuing me in a way rather than me rescuing him.  

I am a nurse, I love helping people.  I am hugely compassionate and definately have issues with codependency that I am trying to sort thru and work on.

My ex portrayed needing to be rescued.  I struggle with whether this was actually true or if I simply needed to rescue her.  I think it was a combination honestly.

I struggle with that while I do love to help, I am a rescuer, I have as well had many relationships that were not based on codependency.  So is it that she just brought those traits out in me by triggering my FOO stuff?

I know that the my needing to be needed is what kept me in the FOG so damn long.

I think I struggle now with the boundaries between codependency and helping.  I am working on it... . setting new (probably too rigid) boundaries for myself. But I am trying to question my self honestly before I do anything.  Trying to sort out my motivation before I agree.

I have slowed my life way down.  I don't jump to help anymore... rather just support.  Especially in the relations with my kids.  I try to give them any tools they are lacking in which to come to their own solutions instead of simply fixing it for them.  It takes a huge amount of thought and mindfulness on my part but I am getting there.

My mother was however not a rescuer... . she demanded being rescued.  So in my relationship I simply played that role out all over again with my ex... .

I think what worries me is that I do question my motivations for everything now a days.  For example, one of my dreams for over a decade now is to go work in an AIDS clinic in Africa.  It's something I have been working towards since I was back in nursing school.  But now I question if that is simply a way for me to rescue all over again.  

So my confusion is vast some days.  And I have to actively be mindful about everything which feels exhausting some days... but it's better than ruminating right?

I am simply learning to trust myself again and that will take time

Thanks so much for your reoly

[Allmessedup]

Thank you for the validation sb!

These things are so hard to verbalize!  I think that is why I spend so much time on the boards... . seeking to make sense of the confusion that swirls in my brain sometimes.  By reading others threads I often find something that applies to me or prompts me to dig a little deeper, that challenges my perceptions of things.  It's all just a little piece of the puzzle for me.

I know where her errors came from.  That's not a mystery to me any longer.  But my own is what I spend so much time seeking.

Introspection, mindfulness, and many times just breathing is getting me thru.  That I have learned from you and the others on this board!  I am grateful for that!

Slow steady progress and a whole lot of rambling as well.  I am glad I can give back what these boards have given me

[Turkish]

I am a nurse, I love helping people.

My mother was a nurse for 40 years (though she says once a nurse, always a nurse... . I get that). It's a noble trait to join this profession.

I think what worries me is that I do question my motivations for everything now a days.  For example, one of my dreams for over a decade now is to go work in an AIDS clinic in Africa.  It's something I have been working towards since I was back in nursing school.  But now I question if that is simply a way for me to rescue all over again.  

As my T admitted to me, "I'm a rescuer, too. There's nothing wrong with that." It's just when we let it define us and get into dysfunctional relationships that it becomes a problem. I think going to Africa is a fantastic dream! You'd be using your skills and your empathy to help people who need it most. It would be embracing who you are in a healthy manner that is value added to the world, and also to the individuals whom you would help.

[Allmessedup]

Thank you Turkish!

I so needed to hear that tonight,

Your right, just because I am a rescuer does not mean that there is anything wrong with me!

In my relationship with my ex I was very codependent... . which I have not been in any other of my relationships to this degree!,  she triggered me. I triggered her and off to do the dysfunctional dance we went. 

But in working on me and not entering relationships BASED on that rescuing is the key here:). I can't change who I am... . and I don't want to.  I am kind and I am empathetic those are good qualities.  But I can change how I choose to use those qualities and make sure I am always using them for the right reasons

Thank you!

[Turkish]

But in working on me and not entering relationships BASED on that rescuing is the key here:). I can't change who I am... . and I don't want to.  I am kind and I am empathetic those are good qualities.  But I can change how I choose to use those qualities and make sure I am always using them for the right reasons

Yes! Me, too. Now to put into practice. 

Thank you!

No problem. Africa is calling. Time to put on some Toto... .