What about my need for validation?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I hear what is being said about the importance of validation to them. This is what ive been doing a lot and its been very helpful., How ever,  what about our validation needs?  I spend all thisi time validating him and then when it came to something I needed validation for,  he wasnt there anymore. All I got was weird obscure statements.

This is how it went.  What did I do wrong. I obviously did something wrong because in the end I was pretty hurt.

ME:

I realize in the past sometimes  I have (sometimes) ,lets get this straight,  sometimes have come across as being a little pushing towards you. Its my father in me.  This is how he treats me.Its gotten a bit ingrained,  but I want you to know that Im much more aware of this now and have been looking at myself. I dont need you to validate that there has been a difference in me because I know there all ready has been,  but it would be nice if you could acknowledge this to me.  (  :

'HIM:

What am I supposed to say

You are who you are hon

ME:

no I am not the same person any more.  I much better.

HIM:

Good im glad

ME:

I guess you havent noticed any thing. I must still be that b*.sorry to put it tha way<(he called me a b* when we were fighting a month ago)

HIM:

Who ever said you were a b* coz I didnt

Im gunna listen to Alan Watts before I go to bed hon

Catch yoy tmoz xxx

ME:

Why wont you give me some validation to changing things to how I relate to you in a more positive way?

HIM:

Why do you need validation from me?

ME:

Im opening  myself up to you and this isnt easy, but Im doing it because I care, becuase I hurt you and didnt meann to, I didnt know what I was doing.

HIM:

Maybe Im not fully over it yet.

ME:

So you cant give this small acknowlegment to me.

HIM:

There is nothing you can say to change that. <(Im thinking, change what? I guess the dramatic damage I supposively did to him.  I didnt do anything to him. He created this.)

HIM:

Im chatting with you arnt I ?

ME:

what?  Im talking about acknowledging me caring enough about you to look at myself and make positive changes . This is good,

HIM:

Yes its good

ME:

yes it is.I need to feel supported and acknowledged when I do good things, Dont you?

HIM:

So do I

HIM:

Life's not always like that though

ME:

whose life?

HIM:

Everybodies

ME:

Yes, but between friends as we are, it can be like this,it should be like this,  validating and supporting each other and being truthful and sincere with out fear.

HIM:

That will take time I'M afraid

Im a slow healer and once hurt it takes a lot to lower my guard again

ME:

time for you on your side of things as well validating me for showing you I care about a justing my behavior shouldnt be a matter of letting your guard down,  its with holding

HIM:

People shouldn't changevtheir behaviour to suit someone else honey

ME:

thats right, and this is where youve got me all wrong. The changing i make for myself in my life, including self reflection and seeing better ways to be has everything to do with "me" but it does effect you too, and everyone else I meet in my life.   This isnt just about you,  its about me  and how I want to be the best person I can be.  But you dont want to have this in terms of me and you. I feel you want to keep me feeling bad. Saying a small truth to me , gee I just gave you a metal,(I went through a big validation thing I gave to him earlier in the conversation)  what do I get.  nothing. emptiness.

ME:

Feeling hurt and not letting your guard down, what does that have to do with giving a little bit to maybe help me feel good about myself too. because I care? you wont acknowledge this to me.  I care that I hurt you  and I care about other people too, My students tell me when Im being extra kind to them and they appreciate it and I appreciate that they tell me this, it reinforces it.   It goes around and around, we take turns giving. We take turns giving.    Im done for the night.  Im tired...  Sleep well...        Illl talk to you soon .  Good night.  xx

hIM:

Good night  xx

Saturday 8:40pm

ME: (15 minutes later)

(his name)  Im sorry I made such a big issue of  that.   Ive been thinking that I need some time away from chat, ok.  I need to be alone and I think you do too.  Ill talk to you maybe Thursday or Friday. ok. Take care.

3 hours ago

Ok no worries hope you enjoy your holliday. Take care. <  (acts like he could care less and nothing really important happened)

Chat Conversation End

Sent from Mobile



So what;s wrong with ME?  Is there anything wrong with me?  He gets all the validation in everything and I get none.  This is making me psychically sick.  

[goingtostopthis]

I hear what is being said about the importance of validation to them. This is what ive been doing a lot and its been very helpful., How ever,  what about our validation needs?  I spend all thisi time validating him and then when it came to something I needed validation for,  he wasnt there anymore. All I got was weird obscure statements.

This is how it went.  What did I do wrong. I obviously did something wrong because in the end I was pretty hurt.

ME:

I realize in the past sometimes  I have (sometimes) ,lets get this straight,  sometimes have come across as being a little pushing towards you. Its my father in me.  This is how he treats me.Its gotten a bit ingrained,  but I want you to know that Im much more aware of this now and have been looking at myself. I dont need you to validate that there has been a difference in me because I know there all ready has been,  but it would be nice if you could acknowledge this to me.  (  :

'HIM:

What am I supposed to say

You are who you are hon

ME:

no I am not the same person any more.  I much better.

HIM:

Good im glad

ME:

I guess you havent noticed any thing. I must still be that b*.sorry to put it tha way<(he called me a b* when we were fighting a month ago)

HIM:

Who ever said you were a b* coz I didnt

Im gunna listen to Alan Watts before I go to bed hon

Catch yoy tmoz xxx

ME:

Why wont you give me some validation to changing things to how I relate to you in a more positive way?

HIM:

Why do you need validation from me?

ME:

Im opening  myself up to you and this isnt easy, but Im doing it because I care, becuase I hurt you and didnt meann to, I didnt know what I was doing.

HIM:

Maybe Im not fully over it yet.

ME:

So you cant give this small acknowlegment to me.

HIM:

There is nothing you can say to change that. <(Im thinking, change what? I guess the dramatic damage I supposively did to him.  I didnt do anything to him. He created this.)

HIM:

Im chatting with you arnt I ?

ME:

what?  Im talking about acknowledging me caring enough about you to look at myself and make positive changes . This is good,

HIM:

Yes its good

ME:

yes it is.I need to feel supported and acknowledged when I do good things, Dont you?

HIM:

So do I

HIM:

Life's not always like that though

ME:

whose life?

HIM:

Everybodies

ME:

Yes, but between friends as we are, it can be like this,it should be like this,  validating and supporting each other and being truthful and sincere with out fear.

HIM:

That will take time I'M afraid

Im a slow healer and once hurt it takes a lot to lower my guard again

ME:

time for you on your side of things as well validating me for showing you I care about a justing my behavior shouldnt be a matter of letting your guard down,  its with holding

HIM:

People shouldn't changevtheir behaviour to suit someone else honey

ME:

thats right, and this is where youve got me all wrong. The changing i make for myself in my life, including self reflection and seeing better ways to be has everything to do with "me" but it does effect you too, and everyone else I meet in my life.   This isnt just about you,  its about me  and how I want to be the best person I can be.  But you dont want to have this in terms of me and you. I feel you want to keep me feeling bad. Saying a small truth to me , gee I just gave you a metal,(I went through a big validation thing I gave to him earlier in the conversation)  what do I get.  nothing. emptiness.

ME:

Feeling hurt and not letting your guard down, what does that have to do with giving a little bit to maybe help me feel good about myself too. because I care? you wont acknowledge this to me.  I care that I hurt you  and I care about other people too, My students tell me when Im being extra kind to them and they appreciate it and I appreciate that they tell me this, it reinforces it.   It goes around and around, we take turns giving. We take turns giving.    Im done for the night.  Im tired...  Sleep well...        Illl talk to you soon .  Good night.  xx

hIM:

Good night  xx

Saturday 8:40pm

ME: (15 minutes later)

(his name)  Im sorry I made such a big issue of  that.   Ive been thinking that I need some time away from chat, ok.  I need to be alone and I think you do too.  Ill talk to you maybe Thursday or Friday. ok. Take care.

3 hours ago

Ok no worries hope you enjoy your holliday. Take care. <  (acts like he could care less and nothing really important happened)

Chat Conversation End

Sent from Mobile



So what;s wrong with ME?  Is there anything wrong with me?  He gets all the validation in everything and I get none.  This is making me psychically sick.  

[an0ught]

Hi goingtostopthis,

you were asking where did it go wrong?

I hear what is being said about the importance of validation to them. This is what ive been doing a lot and its been very helpful., How ever,  what about our validation needs?  I spend all thisi time validating him and then when it came to something I needed validation for,  he wasnt there anymore. All I got was weird obscure statements.

This is how it went.  What did I do wrong. I obviously did something wrong because in the end I was pretty hurt.

It may be good to step away from this for a day and then come back again - you may need some distance to be able to see the dialog with fresh eyes.

ME:

I realize in the past sometimes  I have (sometimes) ,lets get this straight,  sometimes have come across as being a little pushing towards you. Its my father in me.  This is how he treats me.Its gotten a bit ingrained,  but I want you to know that Im much more aware of this now and have been looking at myself. I dont need you to validate that there has been a difference in me because I know there all ready has been,  but it would be nice if you could acknowledge this to me.  (  :

'HIM:

What am I supposed to say

You are who you are hon

Sounds like a validating response from him. Note you are starting on a defensive note as if you were in a conflict.

ME:

no I am not the same person any more.  I much better.

HIM:

Good im glad

Note that you did not accept his validation but rejected the response. He took that rejection well.

ME:

I guess you havent noticed any thing. I must still be that b*.sorry to put it tha way<(he called me a b* when we were fighting a month ago)

HIM:

Who ever said you were a b* coz I didnt

Im gunna listen to Alan Watts before I go to bed hon

Catch yoy tmoz xxx

Then you accuse him of not paying attention. He gets defensive, realizes that you are angry and ties to stop communication before fighting breaks out which is quite sensible.

ME:

Why wont you give me some validation to changing things to how I relate to you in a more positive way?

HIM:

Why do you need validation from me?

After not listening for a while and ignoring his intent to close the conversation you push on and demand appreciation.

ME:

Im opening  myself up to you and this isnt easy, but Im doing it because I care, becuase I hurt you and didnt meann to, I didnt know what I was doing.

HIM:

Maybe Im not fully over it yet.

Not sure what the opening up refers to - in this conversation there was none. His response is quite balanced.

ME:

So you cant give this small acknowlegment to me.

HIM:

There is nothing you can say to change that. <(Im thinking, change what? I guess the dramatic damage I supposively did to him.  I didnt do anything to him. He created this.)

He is declining to be pushed.

HIM:

Im chatting with you arnt I ?

ME:

what?  Im talking about acknowledging me caring enough about you to look at myself and make positive changes . This is good,

He is talking to you. And he is listening more than you are listing to him. So he is actually validating. "what?" is again a response that is not acknowledging what he is saying.

HIM:

Yes its good

ME:

yes it is.I need to feel supported and acknowledged when I do good things, Dont you?

HIM:

So do I

When pushed so hard he is finally giving you the response you seek.

HIM:

Life's not always like that though

He is feeling uncomfortable

ME:

whose life?

Putting him on the spot

HIM:

Everybodies

Evasive, defensive

ME:

Yes, but between friends as we are, it can be like this,it should be like this,  validating and supporting each other and being truthful and sincere with out fear.

Pushing your view of the world

HIM:

That will take time I'M afraid

Im a slow healer and once hurt it takes a lot to lower my guard again

He feels pushed and is telling you that explicitly

ME:

time for you on your side of things as well validating me for showing you I care about a justing my behavior shouldnt be a matter of letting your guard down,  its with holding

No acknowledgment of his distress and further pushing your view

HIM:

People shouldn't changevtheir behaviour to suit someone else honey

He feels pushed.

ME:

thats right, and this is where youve got me all wrong. The changing i make for myself in my life, including self reflection and seeing better ways to be has everything to do with "me" but it does effect you too, and everyone else I meet in my life.   This isnt just about you,  its about me  and how I want to be the best person I can be.  But you dont want to have this in terms of me and you. I feel you want to keep me feeling bad. Saying a small truth to me , gee I just gave you a metal,(I went through a big validation thing I gave to him earlier in the conversation)  what do I get.  nothing. emptiness.

ME:

Feeling hurt and not letting your guard down, what does that have to do with giving a little bit to maybe help me feel good about myself too. because I care? you wont acknowledge this to me.  I care that I hurt you  and I care about other people too, My students tell me when Im being extra kind to them and they appreciate it and I appreciate that they tell me this, it reinforces it.   It goes around and around, we take turns giving. We take turns giving.    Im done for the night.  Im tired...  Sleep well...        Illl talk to you soon .  Good night.  xx

More pushing

hIM:

Good night  xx

Saturday 8:40pm

Second and succuesful attempt to step out of this not productive exchange

ME: (15 minutes later)

(his name)  Im sorry I made such a big issue of  that.   Ive been thinking that I need some time away from chat, ok.  I need to be alone and I think you do too.  Ill talk to you maybe Thursday or Friday. ok. Take care.

3 hours ago

Sensible step - you made a big issue

Ok no worries hope you enjoy your holliday. Take care. <  (acts like he could care less and nothing really important happened)

Chat Conversation End

Sent from Mobile

So was it now important or not? You can't tell him that it was not important and then expect him to act as if it was.

So what;s wrong with ME?  Is there anything wrong with me?  He gets all the validation in everything and I get none.  This is making me psychically sick.  

It may have not been your best day.

When we share stuff that is important and possibly triggering we use SET with T being our stuff.  Validation is active listening. He is giving responses that make sense, may well respond his genuine feelings and do correctly reflect the somewhat strained state of the relationship. He is neither sugar coating it nor painting things black. He is showing awareness of your heightened emotional state and tries to break of from conflict when it starts going.

Have you spent an hour watching Fruzzetti about validation? I've watched it several times. It may help both on technique as well as motivation: https://bpdfamily.blogspot.de/2013/06/validation-encouraging-peace-in-BPD.html . Is book is also worth a read - you can check out the TOC here: www.books.google.de/books?id=07qchKWWH1UC&pg=PP6&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

[goingtostopthis]

Well,  I have to disagree.   I was asking him for acknowledgement that I had improved and was aware of my mistakes in our relationship and was taking responsibilty for my side of it, something which he has never done once.

   He has been refusing to skype with me for reasons that make no sense.  I may have been pressing him alittle because I believe he was intentionally with holding from me the fact that I have been making positive changes in myself and in my relating to him.

Its been obvious, yet he denies this to me. This is very hurtful. I wouldnt say push,  I would say press a little,   thank you very much. He was the one who painted me black over things I never did, yet Im going this extra mile?  while he does nothing!   My intention to change certain things that may be triggering him are good things and should help him to heal.  But for him he treats this as being rather insignificant and is tottally insensitive to my feelings.   I believe he was intentional with-holding any credit to me for my efforts to help our relationship and would not validate this positive change in me no matter what.  because he wants me to continue feeling bad about myself so he can still play the victim and hence still have the control he now has in our relationship.               He plays games and his change of the subject was hurtful and insulting too .  Nothing was stopping him from saying,  look,  lets take a break form this,  ok      Hes all ways the victim and Im all ways the bad one and it doesnt matter what I do or how hard  try to show him that I care about healing our relationship.    He make this irrevelent because this  is just the way he wants it to be now. He makes me irrevelent by refusing to give equally. 

                 Now Im not saying that  I didnt make any mistake inthat dialog.  I know I did,  but honestly your interpretation was way off. 

   

                                     

                         

[cosmonaut]

I feel the same, goingtostopthis.  I never got the validation from my xuBPDgf that I needed, either.  When I would be having a tough time or felt frustrated, she would rarely have it in her to understand and validate me.  That seems to be very common from the stories here.  It seems that these relationships are very one sided.  If you want to continue a relationship, in any form, with your pwBPD, you are probably going to have to accept that reality.  The likelihood of his achieving the emotional development necessary to be able to be an emotional support for you is, sadly, remote.  Unfortunately, trying to dig that validation out of him is only going to further destabilize the relationship.  He is going to feel further invalidated and ashamed, and he will continue to withdraw from you.  I think it might be best to either 1) Accept that he is not going to be able to validate you, 2) detach from him and work on finding people who are more emotionally available.  I know that is hard to accept (I'm going through the same thing), but that is what I have come to believe: they can't love us the way we love them.

[MissyM]

Very well said, cosmonaut.  Seeking validation from my dBPDh is just fruitless.  Other people give me support and validation.  I know I am making changes and that I also make mistakes.  I cannot expect my dBPDh to help me, he can barely help himself.

[goingtostopthis]

Hi goingtostopthis,

you were asking where did it go wrong?

I hear what is being said about the importance of validation to them. This is what ive been doing a lot and its been very helpful., How ever,  what about our validation needs?  I spend all thisi time validating him and then when it came to something I needed validation for,  he wasnt there anymore. All I got was weird obscure statements.

This is how it went.  What did I do wrong. I obviously did something wrong because in the end I was pretty hurt.

It may be good to step away from this for a day and then come back again - you may need some distance to be able to see the dialog with fresh eyes.

ME:

I realize in the past sometimes  I have (sometimes) ,lets get this straight,  sometimes have come across as being a little pushing towards you. Its my father in me.  This is how he treats me.Its gotten a bit ingrained,  but I want you to know that Im much more aware of this now and have been looking at myself. I dont need you to validate that there has been a difference in me because I know there all ready has been,  but it would be nice if you could acknowledge this to me.  (  :

'HIM:

What am I supposed to say //  <  I would have hoped that he would have said, Yes,  I have noticed a difference in you, youre alot calmer now.

You are who you are hon//  like I will never change? from my black side? ok  wonderful!

Sounds like a validating response from him.//  Not to my origonal question to him, not at all.  Note you are starting on a defensive note as if you were in a conflict.   yes,  because hes with holding from me.

ME:

no I am not the same person any more.  I much better.  // I didnt need to say that.

HIM:

Good im glad//  This is nice, but this has nothing to do with with what I origonally  asked him. He does this all the time.

Note that you did not accept his validation but rejected the response. He took that rejection well.//Because he knows hes still not specifially acknowleging to me what I asked for. link=topic=221922.msg12408793#msg12408793 date=1394984165]ME:

I guess you havent noticed any thing. I must still be that b*.sorry to put it tha way<(he called me a b* when we were fighting a month ago)

HIM:

Who ever said you were a b* coz I didnt//  He did call me a b* and convienently forgets.

Im gunna listen to Alan Watts before I go to bed hon

Catch yoy tmoz xxx//  evasion

Then you accuse him of not paying attention. He gets defensive, realizes that you are angry and ties to stop communication before fighting breaks out which is quite sensible.//   He was paying attention, just with holding reality from me.

ME:

Why wont you give me some validation to changing things to how I relate to you in a more positive way?

HIM:

Why do you need validation from me?//  WELL HELL< he sure as hell needs a lot of Validation form me!What is he talking about.  Any healthy relationship has to have a certain amount of validation between each person to survive.  come on!

After not listening for a while and ignoring his intent to close the conversation you push on and demand appreciation.

                       I did not DEMAND!  appreciation.  I was asking for it.

ME:

Im opening  myself up to you and this isnt easy, but Im doing it because I care, becuase I hurt you and didnt meann to, I didnt know what I was doing.

HIM:

Maybe Im not fully over it yet.

Not sure what the opening up refers to - in this conversation there was none.// WRONG,   the beginning statement to him was where I was opening up.  His response is quite balanced.//no feelings

ME:

So you cant give this small acknowlegment to me.

HIM:

There is nothing you can say to change that. <(Im thinking, change what? I guess the dramatic damage I supposively did to him.  I didnt do anything to him. He created this.)

He is declining to be pushed.

HIM:

Im chatting with you arnt I ?

ME:

what?  Im talking about acknowledging me caring enough about you to look at myself and make positive changes . This is good,

He is talking to you. And he is listening more than you are listing to him. So he is actually validating. "what?" is again a response that is not acknowledging what he is saying.

HIM:

Yes its good

ME:

yes it is.I need to feel supported and acknowledged when I do good things, Dont you?

HIM:

So do I

When pushed so hard he is finally giving you the response you seek.//pushed so hard? are you out of your mind?

HIM:

Life's not always like that though

He is feeling uncomfortable

ME:

whose life?

Putting him on the spot

HIM:

Everybodies

Evasive, defensive

ME:

Yes, but between friends as we are, it can be like this,it should be like this,  validating and supporting each other and being truthful and sincere with out fear.

Pushing your view of the world

HIM:

That will take time I'M afraid

Im a slow healer and once hurt it takes a lot to lower my guard again

He feels pushed and is telling you that explicitly

ME:

time for you on your side of things as well validating me for showing you I care about a justing my behavior shouldnt be a matter of letting your guard down,  its with holding

No acknowledgment of his distress and further pushing your view

HIM:

People shouldn't changevtheir behaviour to suit someone else honey

He feels pushed.

ME:

thats right, and this is where youve got me all wrong. The changing i make for myself in my life, including self reflection and seeing better ways to be has everything to do with "me" but it does effect you too, and everyone else I meet in my life.   This isnt just about you,  its about me  and how I want to be the best person I can be.  But you dont want to have this in terms of me and you. I feel you want to keep me feeling bad. Saying a small truth to me , gee I just gave you a metal,(I went through a big validation thing I gave to him earlier in the conversation)  what do I get.  nothing. emptiness.

ME:

Feeling hurt and not letting your guard down, what does that have to do with giving a little bit to maybe help me feel good about myself too. because I care? you wont acknowledge this to me.  I care that I hurt you  and I care about other people too, My students tell me when Im being extra kind to them and they appreciate it and I appreciate that they tell me this, it reinforces it.   It goes around and around, we take turns giving. We take turns giving.    Im done for the night.  Im tired...  Sleep well...        Illl talk to you soon .  Good night.  xx

More pushing

hIM:

Good night  xx

Saturday 8:40pm

Second and succuesful attempt to step out of this not productive exchange

ME: (15 minutes later)

(his name)  Im sorry I made such a big issue of  that.   Ive been thinking that I need some time away from chat, ok.  I need to be alone and I think you do too.  Ill talk to you maybe Thursday or Friday. ok. Take care.

3 hours ago

Sensible step - you made a big issue

Ok  no worries hope you enjoy your holliday. Take care. <  (acts like he could care less and nothing really important happened)

Chat Conversation End

Sent from Mobile

So was it now important or not? You can't tell him that it was not important and then expect him to act as if it was.

So what;s wrong with ME?  Is there anything wrong with me?  He gets all the validation in everything and I get none.  This is making me psychically sick.  

It may have not been your best day.

When we share stuff that is important and possibly triggering we use SET with T being our stuff.  Validation is active listening. He is giving responses that make sense, may well respond his genuine feelings and do correctly reflect the somewhat strained state of the relationship. He is neither sugar coating it nor painting things black. He is showing awareness of your heightened emotional state and tries to break of from conflict when it starts going.

Have you spent an hour watching Fruzzetti about validation? I've watched it several times. It may help both on technique as well as motivation: https://bpdfamily.blogspot.de/2013/06/validation-encouraging-peace-in-BPD.html . Is book is also worth a read - you can check out the TOC here: www.books.google.de/books?id=07qchKWWH1UC&pg=PP6&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false[/quote]
Im done with this.  I dont trust this site anymore.   sorry

[Louise7777]

I have a different interpretation. When I read your post (before reandig responses, cause I get influenced by other´s views  ) this caught my attention:

"People shouldn't changevtheir behaviour to suit someone else honey"

I dont know your story, dont know what kind of relationship you have with him, but I didnt like that sentence at all. He may be right to some extent, we shouldnt change ourselves to acomodate others. But we are supposed to give in and acomodate to have a good relationship. This sentence, in its context reminded me the "its my way or the high way".

He seemed non-confrontational indeed. But seemed to me very passive-aggressive. I had a rs with an uPAPD and it was tough. PAPDs can drive you insane. You seemed a bit out of balance and frustrated, because you expect something that a BPD cant give: validation. At least thats just my opinion.

[goingtostopthis]

Cosmonant,

      Thank you for your reply.   This is what I needed to hear.  I know  its true.  Im having a hard time right now with another poster who wrote comments down under each chat post.  Comments that Im afraid are really off base and unfair.  Not knowing the history of my relationship and certain details about whats been going on, it was the wrong thing to do.    and I would like it deleted if possible.   

                            This guy  keeps setting me up for frustration and I think he feeds off it.  Im pretty much done with all this concerning him.  Im a nice person and this other poster made me sound like Im a demanding, pushy person whos BPD boy friend is there answering me in all innocents.  Like Im the abuser.

                              It all come down to the fact that when he split on me he waisted no time telling me what my faults were, faults over things that never happened.  Me still loving him and wanting to save the relationship I kept on reasoning with him , even being sorry for wrongs I never did. I wanted a second chance,  but it didnt matter what I said about how I would change and be aware of what triggers him and  be a better person, it was never enough.  He allways came up with something new as a reason as to why it just wont work. 

                      And here he is now, telling me  he loves me again,  but wont skpye,  ooh hes still needs to heals,  whooes him.  like  I cheated on him or something, or stuck a knife in his back literary! I havent done anything.  I want to love him,  but he wont let me, hence having appreciation for the fact that I am changing and becoming better as a person.  It doesnt matter.   His responses to me are vague, they lead you off  the subject, he never , just about never answers a direct question from me. Its like hes allways playing games.

   So ya... . Im a bit frustrated,  but not demanding... . I really take affense to that.    thanks  I just had to get that out of my system.

[cosmonaut]

It's incredibly frustrating to be in a relationship with a pwBPD.  It's hard to accept that they don't see the relationship in that same way that we do.  They don't feel the same way about us as we do about them.  They are a bucket with a hole in it - no matter how much love you put in, it's never going to be enough.  They are never going to be filled and whole, no matter how much we love them.  The only way that they can resolve their disorder is to work very hard in therapy to achieve the development that went very wrong early on in their life.  pwBPD are incredibly damaged people.  They simply don't have it in them to be emotionally supports for us.  They can't.  :'(

I know you want an explanation from your bf and you want some validation.  It's completely reasonable and normal to want that.  Unfortunately, he can't give that to you.  His disorder won't allow for it.  He can't explain that he feels these storms of emotion that he can't control - he loves you, he feels smothered by you, he feels abandoned by you.  Round and round it goes.  He may realize that something is wrong, but he may not be able to put it into words.  He probably also feels deeply ashamed about it.  That is very common with pwBPD.

It's very hard to accept, but I don't think he will ever be able to give you what you want.  These relationships are very one sided and it up to us to do the radical acceptance too.  This is just the way it is and we can't fix it and we can't change it.

[goingtostopthis]

I have a different interpretation. When I read your post (before reandig responses, cause I get influenced by other´s views  ) this caught my attention:

"People shouldn't changevtheir behaviour to suit someone else honey"

I dont know your story, dont know what kind of relationship you have with him, but I didnt like that sentence at all. He may be right to some extent, we shouldnt change ourselves to acomodate others. But we are supposed to give in and acomodate to have a good relationship. This sentence, in its context reminded me the "its my way or the high way".

He seemed non-confrontational indeed. But seemed to me very passive-aggressive. I had a rs with an uPAPD and it was tough. PAPDs can drive you insane. You seemed a bit out of balance and frustrated, because you expect something that a BPD cant give: validation. At least thats just my opinion.

Louise,     This is how I took it too.  It sounded very Narssicistic to me and dis validating to my original intention,  which was to become a better person for both of us.   I got the impression that he really didnt want to get that.  

             He was very non-confrontation which surprised me. I felt a little graced at the moment because I knew I was starting to get frustrated  over this issue. Something in me just said Im tired of this, I need to say this.  Though I was aware the whole time that I needed to "watch" myself.  This is why I ended it just when I did, the chat session was much  shorter, so it really wasnt as long as it looks here.  I knew I wasnt going to get any where and that I better stop.    Which is a good sign of my improvment towards self control.  I never had any issues like this with him in months. Ive been doing a lot of reading about validating him and BPD communication skills.  Ive been doing great! Very nice smooth sailing,  but there is all ways the under current that beckins me towards myself. Where I go to get my needs met? Im  a human being I have needs too. Is there no mercy?   Its like a pot of soup that slowly starts to boil over in time.  I caught it at low simmer,   but when I got off the computer,  then I really knew how upset I was and was able to unleash it in my journal.    But you know,  is there no mercy ?  My conclusion last night was that he doesnt care about my feelings hes too into what he wants for himself. I was so sad.

                   + and passive -aggressive,   Ive all ways thought this,    And what you said about BPD not being able to give validation.  Well,  this is where things have confused me.  He has validated me before about  alot of things.  Its  seems its just things he knows I need the most that he denies to me. Its seems to me he would much rather have control in his life now then real love. Before it was real love. We were equals.  Now he has something against me, a dark spot of sorts that he will never allow to be taken away. If it is,  he wont have his control anymore.   I think hes got a serious complex. da... .      

 I did a good thing though.  I very nicely told him that I needed a break from chat.  I wrote him again and told my concerns about another issue that was disturbing me and he was really nice about. We both agreed we needed a break and I said I get back to him in about a week. Of course he said he was thinking the same thing too. Id bet a thousand bucks he was not thinking the same thing too. Its been soley my idea. I could never tell him this,  but I need a break from him  I need some peace, a few days ago he burnt himself, I just cant take it anymore. He claimed it was a psychic attack and some FBI forses did that to him.  Can I die now. I need some time alone and I told him that and he was very receptive, understanding and kind about it. I was surprised, un less he was faking it all. I have no idea.  5 minute later he put up on FB a picture of a broken angel being soothed by a naked women.     Oh my God.  Hes telling me he still needs time to heal, he can have it. Whats important right now is me taking care of me and not worrying about him.  It feels good. I feel free .              

[Louise7777]

Goingtostopthis, you said "Its  seems its just things he knows I need the most that he denies to me. Its seems to me he would much rather have control in his life now then real love"

This is CLASSIC passive-aggressive behaviour. You nailed it without even realizing it. PAPDs prefer control to anything. So a relationship is not equal, its a power struggle, where one has to loose so the other wins. Thats a narcisistic trait and it seems to me your boyfriend uses PA tactics (or has N traits).

I see you are frustrated. I was too. The frustration only increases cause they make a point in NOT giving us what we want/ expect. I began behaving in ways I never did before. I was angry and  wanted him to see my side, to ackowledge my feelings... . All in vain. A NPD will never do that. I had dated this uNPD briefly but was enough to throw me out of balance. They are wells that never get full. Only take from you, dont give anything.

I think you did well, have some time without contacting him.

[maxen]

hi goingtostopthis. thank you for posting that. "what am i supposed to say" isn't a very validating response. and i share the frustration in giving so much validation without getting back a level of attention that any partner deserves. i reached quite a level of frustration in my marriage, realizing that i had to preface any comment with alot of cushioning. on the other hand, my w didn't have it in her to be an emotional support (as cosmonaut well phrased it). i became resentful. please don't let that happen to you!

i'm sorry for the situation you're in!

[goingtostopthis]

Thank Maxem,


                          Im gradually getting to the point where Im starting to not care anymore. It's happening slowly but Ive been noticing it in myself more and more as time goes by.  The basic part of our relationship used to be on Skype. We did this day and night for about 6 months until he split on me and became a total different person. I mean like a complete personality change over.  He acused me of things that never happened, over exaggerated events that were rather slight,was irrational and not in reality . He started these mean arguments with me, wouldnt allow them to be resolved, going on for hours , and then blamed me as the sole cause. I was the one with the problem. I was so tramatized by this, words can not express.

                         I guess Im going through the recycleing period now. He did say he was sorry, but all he said was Im sorry I hurt you,  and that was it. I recently brought up to him that I had never yelled at him like claimed I did. I needed him to know that arguing on chat or text is the worst thing you can do and that many things had to have been misunderstood. I told him I found the section on chat were I was talking to him before the fight and we were indeed on chat not Skype. I never yelled a him.  How could I be yelling at him if he couldnt hear me. He swore up and down we were on Skype.  My point with all this , is that much of he pain hes feeling now is most likely very unnessacary and  has been created by misunderstandings. I told him this,but at the same time validated that I understood and cared that he is still healing from all this.    His response was that I needed to just put all this behind me and let it go.  I very seldom get direct responses from him when Im making a valid point about something.  He wont skype with me now and his reason for it  is because hes still messed up and healing from our ordeal.       

                                 He just told me he loved me the other day, but to me, he obviously doesnt miss me because he doesnt want to see me on skype. He knows I want to see him but keeps skirting around it with this Im so wounded reason.  He doesnt want get that this is the very thing that's going to help him. He will hear my voise and see my face and my eyes, no room for misunderstanding like on chat.   He doesnt want to heal our relationship. He doesnt want to heal himself. He just wants to be wounded by ME! and make a play out of it by himself as long as he can. This is how it feels.  I dont care how you look at this,  its a game and quite honestly I starting to get really bored with it.   

                                   I did the right thing by telling him I needed at a break for about a week. I told him I needed to be alone for awhile. And for the first time aside from my supposive co -dependancy on him,   I felt no pain. I felt relief! I finally manged to give myself a break from him on my terms with out his terms of all ways hurting me with his silent treatments.

                                     I want to start giving him the message.  What he is doing in terms with me is not ok.  All he is doing now is waisting my time. If he wants to keep playing games, fine,  but I will just stop being around less and less.  Im not his prisoner and I think he thinks I am to get to the point where he thinks he can mess me around like he has.   Sorry,    He getting away with stuff,  and its  interesting, because I remember one time when he was being verbally abusive to me, telling me I have this memory problem like I was retarded. This is his problem. Ive witnessed it.  He said,  oh good, you have a memory problem,  that means I can get away with a lot of stuff on you.   Yes,   he said that and laughed about it. 

      Hes going to have to rethink a lot of stuff. It was interesting because right after I told him I was taking some time out,  he wrote back and was soo nice... . and caring. and giving... .   what hes doing makes me sick! and Im glad it does because its prompting me to get myself further and further way from him. No one needs this.       

                   

[Louise7777]

Goingtostopthis, Im glad you are feeling better and seeing things for what they are. I believe staying away from him for some time will be great for you.

"Hes going to have to rethink a lot of stuff."

I think YOU will have to rethink a lot of stuff too. What do you get from this relationship?

Dont take me bad, I mean we must take the control back and analize if a r/s is good for US. WE have to decide, take control of our lives, not only reacting to their tantrums, rages, pouting, etc. We get so defensive and apologetic in this cycle that we totally lost the main view: why do I keep trying to please him? We only react, we dont act for us and then, the focus is only on their needs.

I suggest you read about silent treatment. There´s a great thread on this website about it. Its a control tool. I have been subjected to it for years.

Funny thing about the skype. My xSO stopped using it too. Just wanted phonecalls. I believe all this behaviour is a test, to make us "chase" them. At some point I got bored, I want a loving and caring r/s, not a power struggle. For me it was too much hard work for no reason.

[goingtostopthis]

Thnaks for talking with me.  Its helped a lot.

                   I think Im just going to find a new boyfriend in a day. That should take care of the problem.  


 I know I need to be looking more at myself and answer some questions such as;  Why am I m still staying so stuck on some one who has been so mean to me?    I was thinking also, apart of this staying stuck could also be because Im been so torn  down by all this,  I really dont feel like I have the inner strength right now to JUST! be done with him, make it be over.   It's like I'm still in shock.  I really trusted him more then any one else in my life before.  The signs came on gradually. I really couldnt see it, until one day,  BAM!   it was over.  I had to call my mother. She knows all about this illness. Its apart of her job. She used to supervise a whole psyche hospital of VA vets. She got really angry and told me to block! him immediately.  I didnt.  I couldnt do it.  I want to remain his friend,  but I just dont want to take it very seriously anymore. You know, I can check up on him, make sure hes all right, chit chat... . a bit , and then, ok,  good bye.

            The way he is, its like he wants to make you denie yourself. Its like these mirror pictures I came across on the net. I cant get it to load. What a shame.  



I dont know if this will come through or not.  Art helps a lot. You know ive been so bussy focusing on him,Ive forgotten how I really feel. When I sit still long enough, emotionally I feel like Ive been hit by a truck. Ive been sick with a virus for the past 3 weeks, its hangin go but getting better everyday.  So its like i said, I just dont feel emotionally strong enough to end it yet.   He is so full of his projections on me that really pertain to him,its incredible.  When a part of me has been soaking this up when really none of this has anything to do with me. I know we are all going through this.     Its a matter of detaching.  Its a matter of excepting reality of what they are.  

    I think he thinks if we go back to the kind of loving couple that we were,  I will abandon him, because he's not enough, hes got no job, no money, debt collectors the whole shaazoo.  He thinks hes a loser and goes through his:  everything is hopeless phases a lot.  

      I think, he thinks the only way he can keep me from abandoning him is by putting me on this string. The carrot in front of the nose thing. Knowing my temperment ,he uses the things I want to hold over me as a means of control, to with hold from me to forever keep me wanting it and of course feeling frustrated by it.   I get stuck in this hope that things will change and he'll open up to me in love like he used to again and of course Skype!     I believe as long as he remains an insecure BPD  things will never go back the way they were because he wont allow it.  He'd lose his control.    There I just painted this picture with words, do you think I could sell it?        

[Louise7777]

"She got really angry and told me to block! him immediately.  I didnt.  I couldnt do it.  I want to remain his friend,  but I just dont want to take it very seriously anymore. You know, I can check up on him, make sure hes all right, chit chat... . a bit , and then, ok,  good bye."

Almost impossible to be friends after a breakup. Thats what I have seen. Also, you are not his caretaker, you should think why you put yourself in this position. Remember: "you didnt cause it, you cant control it, you cant cure it".

[hergestridge]

goingtopostthis, I have read this thread and it's stuck in my mind for some reason.

I realize that I don't have the full background story, but your husband's refusal to skype with you is still not a textbook BPD behavior, is it? You have got back together but you can't agree on the forms under which you will see eachother (chat/phone/skype).

I know that you used to skype, but when you describe your guy's unwillingness to go back to the way things used to be as "refusal" you do come across as very "in charge" of the relationship. I can very well imagine he won't do it because he knows you think that you "owe him" to start skyping again.

I have been in the position that my BPDw has been very hurtful to me and I have had (from time to time) a very hard time giving her hugs or a kiss goodnight because it's feel like a false, empty gesture. It hasn't helped at all that my wife has had the attitude that I have "refused" or "withheld" physical contact from her, having the attitude that she is entitled to a certain amount of this as part of normal family life (even though she has cheated on me just recently). Her being impatient and feeling entitled makes it almost impossible to "come back" if you see what I mean? Does this make sense to your situation?

What your guy is telling you in the conversation you quoted her - in a surprisingly articulate way - is that he doesn't have the resources to be as involved in your emotional as you have to be involved in his. Which kinds of answers the question that you put in the header I guess? To you guy's credit it seems he's really aware of this.

But  then again, we don't have th full story... .

[goingtostopthis]

no,  You dont have the full story.  He had been with holding skype from me as a means of CONTROL  over me.  I have never been controling to him in our relailtionship, generally very passive,  with very few out bursts of frustration over verbal abuse that I deemed as being totally unnecsssary.  And then of course anytime that happened  I was all ways wrong and subjected to more verbal abuse.  When he split on me he got into this tangent of convinceing himself that I was trying to be the one controling him when in fact its all ways been him.

                He becomes passive agressive, he may appear to be playing innoccent Mr. Peaceful man, but thayts not what is really going on at times, such as:  I dont know what to say,   but a statement like that could have been interpreted to mean a number of things. Instead he evaded my origonal request and thats all it was. I felt insecure and that's when I became aware of the fact that I was starting to spin around on him to no aviel. And it was time to leave it alone.  He wasnt going to validate to me that I have improved with my behavior towards him even though he was the one who origonally made the issue over it.  Didnt make any sense to me.

                           I was trying to show him that I cared enough to be sensitive to his needs and was actually making good changes between us in this respect.  I took it he didnt really care since he never directly addressed  this to me that he had noticed a change. I was hoping he'd be glad . He was only glad that I felt that I had changed but made no connections to this having anything to do with him and I . It was like  he detached himself from it all in as many evasive ways as he could.       

                             All I know is it has felt as if all I have done here is defend my self over this and have learned if you dont have the whole story out , it gets too easy to make wrong calls and judegments that arent true.  Im through with this,  I think its time for me to find better avenues of recovery and getting help in other places. When it gets assumed that the non BPD is all ways at fault or pushed into looking that way,  its time to get out.   At any rate thanks for your time. 

[hergestridge]

I would say your rs sound complicated. The validation you are expection should perhaps be seen in the context of that, and not in the context of that conversation log you posted here (which is what happened in this thread).

I certainly don't agree that ppl on this forum tend to side up with the BPD person against the "non". This is one of the few threads where I've seen anything like that happen. Usually the bias is in favor of the "non".

[woodsposse]

Since no one has chimed in since early in this thread with this, allow me.

I have read the entire thread, and maybe it is time to take a step back, take a deep breath and slow things down a bit.

When I first read the text log, I did see a lot of pushing and boundary smashing, very aggressive and emotional texts going on which would have made me (if I was on the receiving end), not want to engage.  But, and this is  my opinion, this came from "goingtostopthis".

Even with the first breakdown of the text, which was very well worded - in a way to shed light on how the conversation was playing out... . not to take sides with anyone.

Someone commented :

"But we are supposed to give in and acomodate to have a good relationship.

This isn't entirely true.  There are parts of who we are, our morals, our beliefs that are malleable that to be in an interdependent relationship can modify to mold into that r/s in a healthy manner.  But to "Give in" and "Accommodate"... . not so much.

I understand that you feel you were doing some self improvement and just wanted him to acknowledge your work in that (a little different than validation) - and, not knowing all the back story... . his story, his issues and so on - this blew up into days  of highly emotionally charged postings where input from people here on the thread were cast aside and the site as a whole isn't trusted.

I think, and it is just my opinion, that this is a great time to relax, maybe come back and read some other information on the site regarding communication tools, maybe focus a little more on you - cause I can hear some of the hurt feelings you are having.

Maybe if a little time is spent on healing you a bit, it can open a better door of communication and let you get to the happy place that I know you are wanting to get to.

I'm sure it will work out fine however you go forward.

[123Phoebe]

Hi goingtostopthis,

Wanted to pop in to say that I'm saddened you're not feeling supported here

I realize in the past sometimes  I have (sometimes) ,lets get this straight,  sometimes have come across as being a little pushing towards you. Its my father in me.  This is how he treats me.Its gotten a bit ingrained,  but I want you to know that Im much more aware of this now and have been looking at myself. I dont need you to validate that there has been a difference in me because I know there all ready has been,  but it would be nice if you could acknowledge this to me.  (  :

A couple of things have really stood out to me and 1) Is that realizing that our parents have affected us in pretty profound ways is a HUGE step towards feeling more whole and secure in ourselves.  So, kudos to you for making that pretty profound connection!

I felt insecure and that's when I became aware of the fact that I was starting to spin around on him to no aviel. And it was time to leave it alone. 

2) This kind of awareness is such a step in the right direction.  Awareness of our feelings and being able to state, "I'm feeling insecure", is so perfectly being human

Sometimes stepping away and leaving it alone is the right thing to do depending on the circumstances, while other times expressing our feelings and stating what we need is another way to go about it... .

ME:

I realize in the past sometimes  I have (sometimes) ,lets get this straight,  sometimes have come across as being a little pushing towards you. Its my father in me.  This is how he treats me.Its gotten a bit ingrained,  but I want you to know that Im much more aware of this now and have been looking at myself. I dont need you to validate that there has been a difference in me because I know there all ready has been,  but it would be nice if you could acknowledge this to me.  (  :

'HIM:

What am I supposed to say

You are who you are hon

ME:

no I am not the same person any more.  I much better.

I'm wondering what would have happened had you said, "I guess I'm just feeling a little insecure right now and wanted to reach out.  I need a hug"

*sigh* I don't know.  I really hope it all works out for you both

[Cloudy Days]

I wanted to reach out and say I've gotten frustrated on these boards before too. You can't take it personally, especially when you can't actually put your whole story up and explain all the details. I know for me I have had a similar conversation with my husband. It didn't go as calmly as yours did actually, it ended with a pretty large fight because my husband felt threatened by me asking for Validation. I can't remember now what exactly it was I was asking for but I got the exact opposite of what I wanted. A couple months later my Grandmother had died of Cancer, by that time I had given up on trying to get Validation from him. You learn that you have to get it from someone else, unless they are in the right frame of mind it's literally impossible for them to think about your feelings. I was sitting in the bathroom crying, I was having a really tough time with her death, it had nothing to do with him and he asked me what was wrong. I explained to him what I was feeling and he actually looked at me with a stone cold face and said, "that's nothing I have never been through, get over it already". I wasn't even asking for anything from him, just wanting a moment to grieve by myself. It broke my heart to hear him say those words to me.  

Moral of the story is that they aren't capable of giving you what you want. They only have the capacity to deal with their own feelings, and asking them for some kind of acknowledgement just makes them push away. He could have taken what you said to him internally as his fault in some way. They have a way of doing it. So him giving you the validation that you crave would make him have to own up to something that he didn't want to. It's very important to have some radical acceptance in these relationships.

It wasn't until I detached with love that I woke up. You can't take what they say personally, you have to realize that they have a disorder that makes them do things we just will never understand. The better you are at not taking them personally the better off you will be emotionally. It's really hard to do, but once you get it, once it truly clicks there is no going back to the other way of taking things personally. Good Luck to you, I hope you don't give up on these boards, they have saved my life. Most people are just trying to point out what they wished someone would have pointed out to them. I didn't start actually healing until I focused on myself and what I was doing wrong, I was very codependent. I no longer look for acknowledgement from my husband, I see the changes in our relationship and that has to be Validation enough for me.

[woodsposse]

Very great replies.  And, personally, I am glad that we are here to support each other.

But, I have to be honest, and say that taking a step back and re-reading this thread - I still have a difficult time of seeing where  1) the text exchange wasn't him being validating or saying anything not acknowledging someone else  -  and 2) where the initial responses were not being supportive.

In my mind, and this is just me, being supportive is not the same thing as agreeing with everything a person says as if to say we are going to rally around and help protect a person from the big bad wolf and join in saying how bad someone else is.

That's pretty black and white. 

To me, and this is just me, support is to listen and be there for someone else, hear what they are saying (which is validation) - and then, with care, point out where there may have been areas in which to improve tools such as communication - which, in turn, helps bridge understanding (both for the other person, as well as ourself).

I don't want to sugar coat this - but what this sounded like to me was "let me tell you how wrong my S/O is, and if you don't agree with me - I'm going to get mad at you as well because you are not supporting me."

That's pretty black and white.

To be honest, when I was reading the original post, then the first reply, then the first reply to the reply - my head was spinning and I got very lost as to why this exchange was initially an issue.  Granted, I don't know the complete backstory, and some folks don't articulate, in texts or posts, as well as they want... . and it is up to us, the reader, to try and pull from what we are reading to hear what is trying to be said.

But the way everything has been laid out was very emotional, very confussing, very circular, there was a lot of boundary pushing... . and, quite frankly, after reading the exchanges, I had a very familiar knot in my stomach coupled with an urge to jump in and try and "save or fix" things to calm things down.

I have been in those types of discussions/arguments way too many times in my life not to know the signs when I feel them.  So... . the only thing I can do is be honest and tell where it is I'm coming from, then let it go.  I can do that and say that because it is part of my recovery.  I can do that because I do feel the support from this board and the folks herein... . and I do like being able to be here for anyone.

So... . that said - here are my final thoughts (and it's too early for me to try and bring up the quotes... . I need coffee).

She said that she acknowledges in herself that she can be pushy and understands she "gets this from her father".  I concur this is a great step in realizing ones self - maybe not the blaming on the father, but at least to know where it may come from.  She then goes on to say that she knows that she been pushy towards him and is trying to modify that (which is awesome).

But then goes right into being pushy.  Through the entire exchange. 

That's all I heard.  That's all I read.

He, on the other hand, seemed to have been hurt by something she admits she did to him (hence trying to change her behaviors)... . because he said he was hurt and still trying to process his feelings about whatever hurt... . which probably had to do with being so pushy.

She says she is validating him and his feelings on this... . then proceeds to go right back to being pushy - to the point where a texting meltdown happens because he won't validate or acknowledge that she is changing and not being so pushy which he felt hurt from in the first place... . all while pushing him to do it.

That is very circular - boundary breaking - and invalidating the previous stated validation.

It's like saying "I know I hurt you when I did X-Y-Z, so let me tell you I've changed by doing X-Y-Z"

Please know anything I'm saying is coming from a position of care and support.

But in reading the exchange, he seems to have validated and acknowledged what she was saying - replied in the only way he could (so as not to have exchange blow up into something it didn't need to be), stated and restated his personal boundaries (as in, I'm still feeling a bit hurt at whatever happened) then to have that boundary invalidated by a barrage of pushing to break past it)... .

Which, again from my perspective, is invalidating her own acknowldgement that she is trying to not be pushy (by being pushy).

It's circular.

*****

I don't know if he has BPD.  That is not for me to say, nor since I don't know the backstory or the people involved it would be rather reckless for me to state otherwise.  But even if there are disorders involved or not - we, collectively as caring people, should give space to someone else to let them be where they are and not get so excited and emotional because they "don't want to" be pushed or moved past where they are.

In other words, it is a two way street.  We have to own what we bring to the r/s in a healthy way - and not taking the time to actually hear what someone is saying (and interjecting a lot of feelings into the exchange) is a receipe for disaster.

It was said, in one of the posts, that maybe a great approach would have been something like "I'm feeling a little insecure at this moment and need a hug".

This is clear, concise, tells your partner where you are and what you need without pushing them to do something they may not know what you need  -  it sends a clear message to others as well as ourself that we know who we are, where we are, and what we need.  And then, if the other person can meet us there - that is awesome.

****I was having a really emotional day yesterday  and when my S/O called I let her know flat out I was in a not good headspace and really wanted to talk with her and could use her shoulder to lean on and help pull me out of that headspace.  I can do that with her because we have a very open communication style.

She was there for me, to support, and acknowledge what I was saying - and it feels good.  No... . it feels GREAT!  But if I never told her what I needed and then she didn't "give me" what I needed... . would I have gotten upset with her for not hearing me?  Would that have been her invalidating me?  No.  It wouldn't.  I didn't express to here what I needed, where I was at, and would have made her guess why I was being so impulsive and pushy or upset.

All of that is to say this - I have seen nothing but support from folks here, and in my just sharing and trying to keep it real, I hope my support is seen in that manner as well.  There are tons of great readings on tools we can all use in r/s (whether in BPD r/s or not).  And the folks here are wonderful.

But... . again... . support means more than just rallying around someone and saying "yeah you were right he was a jerk".  That type of thinking is tantamount to painting something black.  It's circular, and irrational.

Don't we all want wellness and stability?

[goingtostopthis]

Well, the moral of this story for me is that he has been with holding because he wants to keep me feeling bad about myself so he can have the control.  End of story.  He insisted the relationship was over over things and events that never happened.   How am I supposed to feel? I didnt know he BPD at the time so I didnt know that reasoning with him was only going to make things worse. I didnt know. Because I got angry as a normal person would over the obsurd exggerations about my characters. He tags me the one in the relationship with the problem while admits no responsibility to himself for anything.     This is enough to make anyone crazy.  Because this is abuse.      

       He claims the relationship is over and we can be friends,  yet nothing is any different really then how it was before.  We were friends then. This is a long distance relationship.  

I am taking responsibility for myself over and beyond,  and I still get canned for it,dis validated. It will never be enough.    This does not make me the pushy abusive person.  

[goingtostopthis]

Further more,  I admiited being pushy to him to accommidate his sensitivity, which means in reality I was never that pushy to begin with, Im not a pushy person!   this is what HE sees,  so I validated it to help validate him and his world the way he see things,  or wants to. I only pressed him about twise in a 6 month period over really important issues that had to do with his health and getting a job.       Oh,  that makes me such a bad person because I cared about him and felt he needed a little pushing.    < to him and his child mind this is true and because of this I deserve to be painted black.  And as I said this was before I knew he had BPD.

                            I admited I was pushy for him and his reality,  not what really happened, not the way I really am,  just because i got frustrated in this dialog all of a sudden everyone is coming up with all these judgements about me that just arent true.  This is awful... .  My fault... . really...   I should have made it clear from the beginning that my confession was as exaggerated as his mind is.,because Im trying to care and be on his level.  I have to realize that half the time when I need to say something important and emotionally like that, hes not going to get it.     I dont think he even made the connection as to what I was talking about,  I dont know.  I really dont know.  Im saying he is with holding, maybe he is,   but then ,maybe he isnt.  maybe  alittle bit of everything.   All this has stemmed form me wanting to make up with him regardless of the issues about me that werent true because Ive learned trying to defend myself was never going to work,  so why not just agree with him a bit if it makes him feel better.  I hope this helps everyone to understand this better.     

[woodsposse]

Well, the moral of this story for me is that he has been with holding because he wants to keep me feeling bad about myself so he can have the control.  End of story.  He insisted the relationship was over over things and events that never happened.   How am I supposed to feel? I didnt know he BPD at the time so I didnt know that reasoning with him was only going to make things worse. I didnt know. Because I got angry as a normal person would over the obsurd exggerations about my characters. He tags me the one in the relationship with the problem while admits no responsibility to himself for anything.     This is enough to make anyone crazy.  Because this is abuse.      

       He claims the relationship is over and we can be friends,  yet nothing is any different really then how it was before.  We were friends then. This is a long distance relationship.  

I am taking responsibility for myself over and beyond,  and I still get canned for it,dis validated. It will never be enough.    This does not make me the pushy abusive person.  

Please know I understand what you are saying.  Face to face relationships can be difficult - but long distance relationships have their own set of issues and I can totally understand that.

But part of what I would like to offer for your wellness is that... . no one has the power to make or keep you feeling bad about yourself, but you.  Which is why I said and will continue to offer anyone to take some time to focus on yourself and what you need to heal.

No one can take or have control over you.  You have to give it.

And in this - communication is key.  Especially in a long distance r/s (and now I have a firmer understanding of why video chat  is so important as it is a piece of what you need to be connected to your s/o).  

Also, I can understand how you may feel that some of your character traits are absurd exaggerations in his eyes - but if you are able to take a step backwards and hear what your s/o is saying and hear where he is coming from - they may not be exaggerations for him.

It is my opinion, and mine only, that this isn't abuse.  It's miscommunication.

He claims the r/s is over and wants to be friends - and you see nothing different.  So to me this means your definition of the r/s is different than his.  That isn't abuse... . that's miscommunication.

I'm not suggesting that he isn't dangling a carrot in front of you, and I'm not suggesting that conversations you have he isn't passive aggressive or any of the sort.  That, again, I can't speak on.

What I can speak on is you.  How you can take some time and maybe focus just on you.

I can hear you are hurting, feel bad, maybe feel shame or guilt or a whole mess of things. And looking to him to fix those things for you may not be the best place to start.

No one should feel that they have to change who or what they are to please someone to keep them in a relationship.  This is, in a word, fear of abandonment.

And that is a very scary place to be.  It can't feel good.

So why is that there in you, do you think?  What is it that you "need" from a friend, or any other s/o to alleviate this... . how can the other person help "make you feel good about yourself" if you don't know?

I don't think this is so much about you not taking responsibility for yourself.  I hear that that is what you are doing, self evaluation, self reflecting, learning and growing.  All of those things are awesome and I encourage you to continue.

But it can't be seen as invalidating if someone acknowledges that is what you are doing, but they don't want to have your r/s be on a different level.  If you push past their boundaries, that is invalidating where they are.  If there is a lack of communication and anger, frustration come out and push push push comes out... . to make them see that you are not being pushy and aggressive, highly emotional and lashing out because you feel bad and they can't make you feel better... . yes... . that is being pushy and abusive.

Not just being pushy and abusive to him - but what is it doing to you?

And, really, everything I am offering is about you.  Because we are here to support you.

I'll say it again... . this is about you.  This is in support of you.  This is to show that we are all here because we have something in common and want to support each other... . which means we are here to support you.

Take some time and focus on you... . your happiness... . your needs... . your healing.

I'm not suggesting that the r/s is perfect... . that you should stay... . that you should go... . that he is good or bad.

That is pretty black and white.

But rather, I'm saying, you should seek your own healing and understanding of why you feel the way you do - and what you need to be in a healed stable place in your life.

[woodsposse]

Further more,  I admiited being pushy to him to accommidate his sensitivity, which means in reality I was never that pushy to begin with, Im not a pushy person!   this is what HE sees,  so I validated it to help validate him and his world the way he see things,  or wants to. I only pressed him about twise in a 6 month period over really important issues that had to do with his health and getting a job.       Oh,  that makes me such a bad person because I cared about him and felt he needed a little pushing.    < to him and his child mind this is true and because of this I deserve to be painted black.  And as I said this was before I knew he had BPD.

                             I admited I was pushy for him and his reality,  not what really happened, not the way I really am,  just because i got frustrated in this dialog all of a sudden everyone is coming up with all these judgements about me that just arent true.  This awful... .    Im quitting this place now.     

I'm sorry you feel this way.  In that - you "validated" how he was feeling about your behavior... . in being pushy... . but you don't feel you are or were being pushy... . so, in essence you feel and felt you had to subjugate yourself in doing something you don't believe in... . then get upset with him because he can't acknowledge what you did - but you say you really didn't do it, because you weren't doing that behavior in the first place.

You have a conversation with him where you start of saying that you believe you were being this way, because it is your dads influence... . but then turn around and say you don't have that in you and only did it to validate him.

This is what is called circular logic.  It is confusing, irrational and frustrating.  And in a path to wellness in any relationship, don't we all want things clear, and stable and have wellness.

Please don't misunderstand, no one is coming down on you.

I certainly am not.  But rather the opposite.  That is to support you and try and point you towards things which can improve how you see the world, and feel about yourself and the r/s.  Again, a lot of great tools available... . a lot of great understandsing. But they start and end with you.

I hope you stick around.

[Cloudy Days]

Well, the moral of this story for me is that he has been with holding because he wants to keep me feeling bad about myself so he can have the control.  End of story.  

Could be... . But it seems like you are more worried about trying to place blame on who is wrong and who is right rather than actually trying to resolve how you feel. If he does have BPD, you have to accept that his thinking is disordered and it's not always going to makes sense to you. At some point you have to just agree that things aren't how they should be and accept it for what it is. Placing blame on him that this isn't your fault isn't going to change how you feel and it isn't going to change how he feels.

Further more,  I admiited being pushy to him to accommidate his sensitivity, which means in reality I was never that pushy to begin with, Im not a pushy person!   this is what HE sees,  so I validated it to help validate him and his world the way he see things,  or wants to.

                            I admited I was pushy for him and his reality,  not what really happened, not the way I really am,  just because i got frustrated in this dialog all of a sudden everyone is coming up with all these judgements about me that just arent true.  This awful... .   Im quitting this place now.      

Once again, you are focusing more on who is right and wrong. We are not here to judge you, we are trying to help you heal. Being in these relationships can be destructive to your self esteem, and your emotional well being. Anything that was said was done with respect to you and to help you better your life. Sometimes we have to let go of who is right and wrong and focus more on what we actually want. You want to be happy right, well focusing on who is right and who is wrong keeps you from being happy. Trust me, I have had to deal with this same issue myself for years. At some point we have to take responsibility for how we feel. I spent so much of my time trying to get my husband to see my side of things. It never actually happens and it just ends up making me angry and frustrated. That seems to be where you are at the moment. It wasn't until I decided being right isn't worth fighting about it. You know your truth, you know what your reality is, so what other people say just doesn't matter. It takes getting to a place where you are above fighting about it anymore, you know you are right, so don't react to it. It takes a lot of self reflection and acceptance of your own flawed self to get there. Everyone on this board is somewhat flawed, it's the people that stop trying to argue about what is right and wrong that actually start to grow. It's taken me many years to get to this place in my mind. I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience on these boards, they really have helped me, but you have to let go of who is right and who is wrong and just take it all in without judgement

[goingtostopthis]

Thats right Wood,

     Thats what I was doing.   Portraying myself in a way that isnt really true in hopes to be closer to him., and with in my frustration to have this cleared from me(because I want him to love me), bad image of me that which was never really there is the first place (only in his mind) I  appear to that way. hey?   how lovely...    


        They are all Super, Super  exaggerations that were origonally put on me, and I know Im not over this yet. Im still very very hurt and yes angry.

[Cloudy Days]

        They are all Super, Super  exaggerations that were origonally put on me, and I know Im not over this yet. Im still very very hurt and yes angry.

That is something that they do, they take something that would be small and insignificant to everyone else on this earth and turn it into a big deal, it's the Black and White thinking that they suffer from. He sees a flaw in you and that's all it takes to paint you black in every way possible. It does hurt, it does make you angry because they are attacking your character, it's unfair. That's why taking it personally and letting it bother you causes so much pain. You are allowing him to affect you in this way, you are giving him power over you. At some point you have to realize that it isn't about you. If you could maybe internally say, I know these things he is saying is not true, but I could probably also learn how to communicate what I want better with him. This isn't my fault it's not his fault, but it needs to change and I can accept that that's how it is right now.

There are also better ways of Validating him that allows you to not give up your truth to him. If you don't feel that you are pushy, or he is saying something that you don't feel is true, don't tell him he is right. Tell him that you understand why he thinks what he does, or that you can accept that he feels that way. It's not about agreeing that he is right, it's just agreeing that he feels how he does and that it is ok to feel how he does. It's also ok for you to feel how you feel, just don't expect him to tell you that.