Couple T question/comments

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I know several peoples thoughts on couples T when working on BPD issues with there spouse. I tend to agree with them. Time to have individual T is very helpful but fo now its not going to happen.  The T has suggested it for me and there is a potential opportunity there.

I wanted some thoughts on a topic that was brought up in last couple T session. T suggested I write down some issues in my childhood where my mother maybe overly mothered me or smothered where as my Dad kind of did the oposite. The first issues my wife ever had regarding my parents was the fact that my Mom came off as rather over protective and coddling. She would kind want me close and treaded me more like a child than an adult. So I am to write about these situations. Of which I think I am ok with and I think I know where the T is going with this. Trying to find ways to show my wife to better allow me to converse with my family. 

Am i off in thinking this way. I know in several conversions with T while in sessions without my wife I have expressed wanting to re-establish my family  connections. 

[Cipher13]

I know several peoples thoughts on couples T when working on BPD issues with there spouse. I tend to agree with them. Time to have individual T is very helpful but fo now its not going to happen.  The T has suggested it for me and there is a potential opportunity there.

I wanted some thoughts on a topic that was brought up in last couple T session. T suggested I write down some issues in my childhood where my mother maybe overly mothered me or smothered where as my Dad kind of did the oposite. The first issues my wife ever had regarding my parents was the fact that my Mom came off as rather over protective and coddling. She would kind want me close and treaded me more like a child than an adult. So I am to write about these situations. Of which I think I am ok with and I think I know where the T is going with this. Trying to find ways to show my wife to better allow me to converse with my family. 

Am i off in thinking this way. I know in several conversions with T while in sessions without my wife I have expressed wanting to re-establish my family  connections. 

[Pecator]

Well that is a good topic.

It seems that your T has some skills

For everyone, make sure that the T doing couples work has some understanding of BPD

We had some horrible experiences. It is what caused my uBPDex to bolt so quickly and so cruelly

She has no ability to look at her dark places. Every time the T got close to touching one, she would react physically. She would turn flaming red in her face and chest. Then totally deflect her anger on me.

One time, the T foolishly suggested that she look at some reasons she might like seeing me struggle. She freaked.

Her response was, "No, I would like some advice on whether I need to get the police involved, a restraining order, changing locks and blocking (me) from her life."

Bot the T and I stood in stunned silence having no idea where this came from. I ended the session at this point. A week later she was with my substitute.

Truth is she did not like seeing me struggle so hard to stay in Canada and keep our dream alive. What she did fear was that now that I am getting settled, that she was just a life boat. She convinced herself that I was going to leave her.

She could never internalize how much I loved her and dedicated my life to build our family.

I wish the T would have focused on that.

[MissyM]

I have had a few marital therapists tell me to leave him, that he is beyond help.  They usually start off thinking they can help him and eventually give up.  At this point, my dBPDh needs to focus on his individual therapy.  BPDs tend to want to focus on relationship problems instead of their own problems.  This just doesn't work.  It takes 2 healthier individuals to then focus on making a healthier marriage.  This is my view, and all the therapists we are involved with now.

[Waddams]

T suggested I write down some issues in my childhood where my mother maybe overly mothered me or smothered where as my Dad kind of did the oposite.

So I guess first question is this:  Was/Is your mother overly mothering towards you as an adult?  Would this behavior maybe extend as far as your mother trying to exert her own control over you?

If so, what do you think that at the moment, you've traded one controlling woman for another?  Did you learn to not set boundaries in your relationship with your mother and therefore have you repeated that with your uBPDw?

And could there have been a "tug-of-war" type conflict between your uBPDw and your mother in the past?  If so, how did you feel about being caught in the middle?  What attempts at boundaries did you take to stop it?

The first issues my wife ever had regarding my parents was the fact that my Mom came off as rather over protective and coddling.  She would kind want me close and treaded me more like a child than an adult.

This just reinforces the above questions.  For a BPD, seeing it is going to seem like a threat and they'll feel they have to isolate you from the parent in order to cement their own control so they can feel safe that you won't abandon them at your parent's direction one day.

And as for your father was the opposite of your mother, is there a chance your mother kind of rode roughshod over him and he just stayed out of her way?  Could have been acquiescing and ceding control to your mother?  Again setting an example for you to learn and develop into your own habits as an adult?

How much contact did your father have with his family of origin?  How about your mother?

[In_n_Out]

Seems that the "common" response from a T when they realize that you are in a r/s with a pwBPD is to figure out "why *you* would allow yourself to be put in to that situation/what is the appeal of a pwBPD for you?".  And that the source of that attraction for you *must* be because there was some "issue" with *your* upbringing that has your life crashing in with the life of a pwBPD.  My T is on the exact same approach.  Is that typical?

[seeking balance]

What is the goal of couples therapy and what therapeutic model is your MC (T) is working from?

This is important so there are realistic expectations and tools. 

[Cipher13]

What is the goal of couples therapy and what therapeutic model is your MC (T) is working from?

I have no idea.

So I guess first question is this:  Was/Is your mother overly mothering towards you as an adult? No but she did want to close liek she missed me more than I would have expected.Would this behavior maybe extend as far as your mother trying to exert her own control over you? I don't see her as wanting to control so much as kind of "nest" me. Keep me close just a bit longer.

If so, what do you think that at the moment, you've traded one controlling woman for another? The T mayeb thinks I have gone from 1 end of the spectrum to the other maybe. Did you learn to not set boundaries in your relationship with your mother and therefore have you repeated that with your uBPDw? Perhaps. I do not set boundaries and never really have.

And could there have been a "tug-of-war" type conflict between your uBPDw and your mother in the past? Wife saw my mother as being to nice and optamistic. If so, how did you feel about being caught in the middle? I found my self siding with my wife to keep the peace. But not at first. It took a few years. What attempts at boundaries did you take to stop it?I didn't set any. 

And as for your father was the opposite of your mother, is there a chance your mother kind of rode roughshod over him and he just stayed out of her way? No. My Dad was the disiplinarian. But my mother had say in it to. They did almost everything on an equal footing for the most part. Could have been acquiescing and ceding control to your mother?  No I know that was not the case.Again setting an example for you to learn and develop into your own habits as an adult? I see this as I maybe got my mother passive side to conflict.

How much contact did your father have with his family of origin?  How about your mother? My parent live 5 miles away from my father paretns and visting weekly. My moms side of the family lives 6 hours away and they visit monthly. Everyone is pretty close with the exception of my wife and I now. For the last 7 plus years anyway.

[maxsterling]

I've been going to couples T with my BPDgf.  So far, I think it has been productive.  Originally this became the way in which I could get her into see a T since she had no insurance.  I also saw it as a safe forum for me to bring up some concerns with a trained professional present in case of a total dysregulation.  Up to that point any discussion of the r/s with her triggered screaming or other violence, or suicide threats.  We had about three sessions with one T before my GF declared the T must have a crush on me, and suggested a different T.  We've now been 4-5 sessions with the second T.

The second T seems to focus on our individual issues.  My GF is very open about her mental health issues, but until last session didn't even mention BPD.  I think the T was clued in to her potential BPD from the very beginning, though.  Typical sessions start with the T asking GF what she is doing to feel better and manage her own mental illness.  GF then typically brings that around to frustrations about me, and then I start talking about my concerns, which often get directed back to my family relationships or childhood.  I think this is a productive format.

A couples T is working for both of you, is supposed to be fair and not choose sides.  So even in the case of a person having BPD, the T is still responsible for taking care of the non as well and looking at things you can do to handle the situation better.  I think the T also knows it's probably futile to deal with r/s issues until both parties are healthy enough to work constructively.  In my case, it's clearly not possible to discuss shared household chores with my GF when she is completely unmotivated to do anything - that's her issue, not a r/s issue.  In your case, I think is fair to look at your family issues and deal with some of them so that you are strong and healthy enough to deal with your BPD partner.

[MissyM]

In-n-Out,

Seems that the "common" response from a T when they realize that you are in a r/s with a pwBPD is to figure out "why *you* would allow yourself to be put in to that situation/what is the appeal of a pwBPD for you?".  And that the source of that attraction for you *must* be because there was some "issue" with *your* upbringing that has your life crashing in with the life of a pwBPD.  My T is on the exact same approach.  Is that typical?

Yes, that is my T approach.  It has been beneficial, I have been seeing her for 2 years.  It only recently came out that my H is a BPD.  She had suspicious all along, as she works at a treatment center and sees this with some addicts.  She has really helped me learn to define myself separately, set boundaries and we have started EMDR for PTSD.  I feel like things are starting to come together for me, and the goal is for me to be as healthy as possible.

[Cipher13]

I find myself in a place with the help of counseling, this forum, and several books, most notably: Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist by Margalis Fjelstad. It is had to first understand the illness. I think I do well enough. Then to realize that I can not change anything about the BPDer what so ever no matter what I do what I try or what promises I make. I have 2 choices. 1. Just cut all ties and leave. 2. Stay and change me.

I have to change me with either option though. I think it is becasue of me I am in this situation. If I were a more headstrong less week willed and even less of a cartaking pushover whith no back bone. I bet I wouldn't be where I'm at in this realtionship, or evne in this relationship. So the next big thing is going to happen. I am changing me.

Probably going to be the hardest thing I ever do. And the most rewarding. 

[Pecator]

Wow, I looked at my earlier post and saw how much this board has helped. I see me justifying her just days ago.

I am no where near the progress of most people I read here. But I am glad I reread that post. I am already in a different place. Already.

Seems that the "common" response from a T when they realize that you are in a r/s with a pwBPD is to figure out "why *you* would allow yourself to be put in to that situation/what is the appeal of a pwBPD for you?".  And that the source of that attraction for you *must* be because there was some "issue" with *your* upbringing that has your life crashing in with the life of a pwBPD.  My T is on the exact same approach.  Is that typical?

I actually have two Ts. One I have been working with regarding my nerves (I don't say anxiety, b/c PTSD related). And one that I've been with for at least seven years. They have been very complimentary.

The former is very down to earth, very "street-smart." She deals with homeless and addicts for most of her practice. We went to her first for couple's T. It was actually pretty productive. But I was doing great personal work with her. We decided to get another counsellor. After the last recycle, it was this counsellor who pointed me towards BPD.

The latter counsellor does much deeper FOO stuff and the like. She is brilliant. In seven years, she showed me many things hard to accept, but she never made me mad until the end of this recycle and she started the approach you just described. "F" this crap about "allowing myself" and "what attracted me." Then she would blow off many of my concerns by saying "you really love the drama." WOW!

Ater a week on this board, I realize she just had more faith in me than I had in myself. She is on the right path. That is the only way I can heal and even grow from this.

However, I don't think she is aware of how difficult it is for some of us to go from "stopping the bleeding" to accepting the concept of BPD, to actually taking the essential next step of detaching.

Thank God the folks here do. I found this place since I last saw my T. She will be stunned when we talk tomorrow.

[seeking balance]

https://bpdfamily.com/book_review/index.htm

High Conflict Couple is a very good model for a T to work from regarding this type of relationship.

This will give practical tools - DBT for couples.

[Cipher13]

Couple of things I am working to improve and had the chance to work on last night. When my wife tells me "I feel like you don't care or you are not showing me you care". I know I can't just blurt out "I do to". Which is my first impulse. I also can not just use a logical statement and expect her to understand it the way I do. So I tried to get her to explain the origin of those feelings. I wanted to get her to take responsibility for even just a little bit and explain just what that means or where it might be coming from.

She says "I feel like you don't care or you are not showing me you care". I could you help me to better understand what that means? Earlier today I picked up you contacts for you so that you would have to drive across town an extra 45 mins. I cared that you wouldn't have to waste all that extra time in traffic. I gave you a nice long shoulder rub because I know you've been stressed from work. Are those things careing? I thought they were what do you think? That wasn't exactly what I said but thats the gist.

She said yes it was caring but thats not what I meant. I mean you are not close to me. I asked her to explain that? She couldn't and I said do you mean liek when you get home and I talk to you about your day and sit next to you on the couch while you study and cozy up to you while we watch tv and I put my arm around you when we go to bed? I knew I pushed it as far as I dare. She looked as said No it just is. I'm tired.

Some of my converstion may not be all that I am supposed to say but I used a nice toen of voice and expressed my understanding of her feelings yet pressed her to show me where they come from.

[Surnia]

What I really like in your newer approach, Cipher, is not jump to conclusion and start to find out more about her feelings regarding not enough care. 

What exactly means "taking care" for everyone of us, including your wife. Its probably for many of us something different. So its valid to have some exchange about it.