Chaos used to be the norm...

[Madison66]

I'm 100 days out of my 3+ year r/s with my uBPD/NPD ex gf.  It has really hit me lately how much chaos I allowed myself to deal with in the r/s.  Chaos surrounding her disorder; chaos surrounding her troubled children; chaos due to the unhealthy dynamic between us; chaos surrounding my inner battle (needs not being met, knowing I needed to get out, life being out of balance, rationalizing abuse, not being true to myself, etc.).  I hoped the chaos would subside and then finally radically accepted that it would never change with the r/s.  The lack of chaos felt strange and I felt anxiety in the first couple months after the b/u.  Almost like the needle was out of the arm and the chemical had left the body feeling empty. 

Chaos was my chosen norm for over 3 years.  I fully accept that chaos happens, but shouldn't be the norm.  That chaos sucked the life and fun out of me.  I had real life struggles hit last year (daughter's eating disorder, Mom's Alzheimer's and brother's stress/alcohol related breakdown).  Those struggles pushed me to be at my best and helped me see more clearly that the abusive r/s had to end.  I finally had to choose "me" over "it".  I see now that choosing "me" was not selfish.  It ensures that I can be my best for me and those around me.  I'm now relishing the lack of drama and chaos in my life.  I feel like I can live, laugh, love and grow.  So, aside from learning to avoid chaotic r/s in the future my huge learning was that choosing to take care of myself is absolutely in no way, shape or form selfish.  It has taken me 48 years to learn this and I will carry it forward the rest of my life!

So, what finally lead you to choose to take care of yourself and what was the greatest gift you discovered from making that choice?     

[chillamom]

Hi, Madison66,

I really appreciate your view from 100 days out, and I am looking forward to the point where I can say that the effects of the incessant chaos are receding from my life.  Good for you, and it must feel wonderful to be in a healthier spot, it sounds like the last year or so has been a real trial for you.  I am only 14 days out of my relationship with my exBPDbf, but already appreciate the fact that I can do things like stop for gas on the way home and not here him bellowing "where the $^*$ were you?" when I'm home 10 minutes later than I said I would be.  Of course he is trying to keep as much chaos going as possible…... incessant messages, emails, voicemail…and heartrending pictures of him with tears streaming down his face just so I feel as guilty and awful as possible.  I'm trying to keep my emotional equilibrium but I feel so damn horrible about what I am doing to him….I know I shouldn't see it that way, but I guess my question to you is when did you stop feeling that making the right decision for you was the right decision?  When did it stop feeling so selfish?  All I hear from my ex is a combination of "help me" "you ruined my life" etc…... and he actually ended up in a mental hospital after the breakup.  I am still a mess thinking that I really am a selfish bhit!  from the vantage point of someone 100 days past this horror show, when did you really start feeling that you did the right thing?  Sorry to ramble, guess I'm just envious of your newfound peace!

[growing_wings]

HI Madisson

indeed, chaos / drama is what i was addicted too... . at first i found it weird, then i adapted, and living wihtout it was what was weird. Having grown up in a dysfunctional family where drama and chaos was the constant, i got conditioned to believe this was the "norm", so i looked for it in my relationships...

so... i relate a lot to what you say above

answering your question on what made me choose "me" over the chaos/drama? well it took quite a bit, but i guess it was pride... my ex started to say " oh how much you take in order not to be alone", etc... and she would gaslight me so much, i was totally losing myself... .  when she started to use others to make me jealous, it was too much. in the middle of the pain i stepped out, hurt like hell...  then with all her insults post going NC, well that made it easier.

coming and writing on this site helped me to stay NC long enough to get out of the FOG... . got into therapy, and the rest of the story is a lot of inner work.

[Madison66]

I know I shouldn't see it that way, but I guess my question to you is when did you stop feeling that making the right decision for you was the right decision? When did it stop feeling so selfish?

chillamom,

Like growing_wings, I did a lot of work in T both during the r/s and in the few months after that helped me dig into why I felt guilty and maybe more importantly to understand that the sense of guilt actually originated from experiences I had prior to the r/s.  Towards the end of the r/s when I was dealing with my mom's Alzheimer's diagnosis and a family crisis of how to deal with it, my ex gf showed up at my house at midnight in a complete emotionally dysregulated state saying that I wasn't taking care of her needs.  She defended it in T and I finally woke up.  Then, there were two incidences of physical abuse by her against me.  I made the choice then to do what was best for me and my daughter.  After the b/u, I came to some radical acceptance that I left her and her kids in a better place than I found them.  That was undeniably true.  There was nothing that I could do to make the situation livable for me and my daughter.  My needs could not be met in the r/s.  On top of this, she had a replacement within a week or so and the kids were exposed to him almost immediately.  That was sobering.  I would say eight weeks out, I quit focusing on her and decided to really take back control of my life.  In doing so, I could finally focus solely on me and my daughter.  This meant I had to accept responsibility for my role in the r/s, to forgive myself and to extract every bit of wisdom from the experience.  It took a while, but I finally found freedom from the guilt and shame.  The key was to finally put the focus on me.  You will get there!   

[woodsposse]

indeed, chaos / drama is what i was addicted too... . at first i found it weird, then i adapted, and living wihtout it was what was weird. Having grown up in a dysfunctional family where drama and chaos was the constant, i got conditioned to believe this was the "norm", so i looked for it in my relationships...

I can totally relate to everything said so far.  Well, up to a point.

Yes, I too grew up in a very dysfunctional family where drama and chaos was the constant and my conditioning was this was a "norm".  Well... . sort of.  

I don't believe I looked for the chaos in my relationships - but when it arrived, I was conditioned to want to rail against it and fix it.  Not so I wouldn't be alone - but because I always felt it could be fixed.  To me, things seem so simple and I couldn't wrap my brain around why it had to be so chaotic and irrational.

Again, it wasn't that I looked for it - I just didn't walk away from it.  There was always a reason.  We were married... . we had kids... . finances... . maybe I was "afraid to start over"... . didn't have a place to go - didn't set up "my own life"... . you name it.

Even down to my own feelings of "I don't want to abandon someone because I know how it feels to be abandonded".  I even did this with some friends and co/workers.  I allowed our r/s to affect me in such a way that being around these friends was just always getting me worked up because they were just acting so silly... . or in terms of getting our projects done, they just were not doing what was needed to be done to focus on getting the job done.

but I put up with it every step of the way knowing I had the power to walk away - but I didn't. So that was on me.

With one friend, in particular, I tried for over two years to get him to see the "errors" of his ways and how it was affecting all of us around him.  he would come on jobs with us and just make a mess of everything he touched and upset all those around him (not just me).  But I was looked at as the leader of the group (mostly because I was the leader of the group... . a different story) - and ultimately it was up to me to cut him loose.

That was a very difficult thing for me to do.  But I had my reasons which dated back to the very first job we ever went on (where after that job I knew I didn't want him on other jobs because of the drama).  But I continued to let him join because I felt I could get through to him and have him be an asset to the group and remain in my friendship circle - and... . ultimately, I didn't have to feel the pains of cutting someone loose.

Well... . after about two years of that crap... . I sat him down and cut him loose.  

And as far as him in my life... . I haven't had a day of regret.

oh, I'm sure he will make it where ever he goes, have friends, have great times, do some good work - just not with me. We are on two different planes, two different pages of two different books.  And that is fine.  His book is his book - my book is my book.  My book isn't any better or worse than his (and the same goes for him).

All that is to say - The chaos around me (or potential for chaos) is always around me.  I just choose, at this point in my life, not to put up with it.  Not from an angry point of view. Not from a place of "Gotta push you away if you are bad for me".  But from a place of accepting where someone is where they are at that moment.

If they are in a place which can match where I'm at and we can roll with the punches life throws us and not bring our own drama... . awesome.  If not - that's cool too.

My current r/s is a really great one.  We have open communications and not a shred of "hiding" behind pretenses about where we are.  Or, at least I don't feel it anyway.  We have been together for about 18 months and we endedup getting together right after the final demise of my marriage.  so, yeah - probably not the best time to get involved with someone, but she knew I was still dealing with things ... . and gave me the space I needed to clear my head in my time.

That was wonderful.

In turn, I have always been upfront with her - enjoyed all our times together for what they were and cherish the times we spend together.  We have fostered a very open loving relationship based on truth... . not drama.  not chaos.

yes, there are somethings in her world which can lead to drama... . but they are being taken care of in a manner which isn't chaotic.  

Life hands us stuff we just can't control sometimes (loosing jobs, economy drops, housing market crashes, loved ones die, lost your keys... . etc) - those things re part of life.

But to live in the contant chaos of lies, deceit, circular arguments, getting so emotionally upset when something is said or done which wasn't actually said or done - or... . heaven forbid... . it is actually said or done and whatever was said or done was wrong and hurtful and not have an avenue to seek forgiveness (I mean, come on, we are all human and make mistakes)... . that is not a life I want to live any longer.

One of the things that finally did it for me is that I know I did everytying I could do with the information that I had to affect a positive change for us.  Also, during my close to 20 year relationship, I know for a fact I never lied, cheated, kept deceitful secrets... . so with that, I can rest very easy at night.

Does'nt dull the pain sometimes.  But I know I did everything I could do... . and then some.  

So we hit a wall where enough was enough.  She wanted to walk, I opened the door and said "bye".

(which, in her eyes, I abandoned her by not fighting for her to save her... . even from herself... . which, if I had tried to fight to save her, us and her from herself, I am labled as controlling and just don't get it - which pushes her away even further and harder.  :)amned if ya do - damned if ya don't).

Even after we split, she eventually pushed her way back in once she found out I moved on and started dating someone new.  It was a very chaotic time.  But, in the end, her diagnosed illness won out over sanity and wellness... . and I finally had to fully detach.

But that didn't fully happen until I came here and could finally put my fingers on what had actually happened in that r/s... . and, for that fact, what had been going on in my life going all the way back to my FOO.  I could finally spend the time I needed to focus on me... . just me.  Even through I'm in a fantastic r/s with a new s/o... . even she knew I needed to take whatever time I needed to focus on me.

She didn't kick, holler or scream that I need to pay her more attention or make everything about her her her (which is good because most of my life I was so use to everything being about everyone else, no one ever gave me the consideration I needed.  So this was a very positive win-win).

I'm all about win-wins.

Awesome thread!

[Lucky Jim]

I'm now relishing the lack of drama and chaos in my life.

Hey Madison, It does feel good, doesn't it, when you're out of the drama.  I used to keep an overnight bag in my car in case I needed to spend the night at a local motel, in the event my BPDxW became triggered and went on one of her rampages.  Now divorced, I don't feel anxious when I drive home from work.  After all the chaos, "boring" is a nice change!  I enjoy leading a peaceful life again.  LJ

[myself]

I got caught up in chaos. Did my best to balance what I could. Seeing that some of my efforts made it worse for us, and she wasn't changing for the better, woke me up to how it wasn't good to stay there. Add in the times she intentionally hurt me and it had to end. It's been somewhat chaotic during detaching, but that's the dust settling. Those are my emotions, not the facts. Life is more calm/less damage now.

[woodsposse]

I got caught up in chaos. Did my best to balance what I could. Seeing that some of my efforts made it worse for us, and she wasn't changing for the better, woke me up to how it wasn't good to stay there. Add in the times she intentionally hurt me and it had to end. It's been somewhat chaotic during detaching, but that's the dust settling. Those are my emotions, not the facts. Life is more calm/less damage now.

See... . this is why I keep coming back to these boards... . you all rock!

I was just saying to myself last night... . okay, wait - let me back up a sec.

Yesterday (well, night before last), I was having a very difficult time sleeping.  so I ended up all night.  Then crashed out for a few hours.  When I woke up, I'm still very tired so my mind starts wandering and all of a sudden I'm rumainating again.  I even kept telling myself "you are just tired dude!".

Anyway, somewhere before I started getting into a really cool Netflix series... . it dawned on me - for the last 18 months of my life... . where I have been living is practically stress free.  The woman I'm seeing... . stress free.  Yeah, it was a little rocky when the ex pops back in and we have the same old half truths conversations (well, I always told the full truth... . she... . didn't) - and then arguments, emotions flare, tempers flare... . blah blah blah.

So the only really real stress I have had was when she popped up.

And now that I have been l/c since November (haven't spoken with her on the phone) - and NC since end of February... . there is absolutely no stress (outside of wherever my mind wants me to roam).

Compared to the negative stress I was living with for YEARS... . this is heaven.

Sure, I miss "her" from time to time.  But after coming here, I finanlly realize I can't miss something I never really had. What I was seeing wasn't her - as much as I thought it was or made myself believe, it wasn't.

I take responsibility for that and allow myself to forgive myself for that.  That is still a work in progress (hence my mind jumped to it while tired... . okay okay... . maybe I had a teeny tiny glass of wine when the ruminations started.  Maybe!  I'm neigher going to confirm or deny that!)

Anyway... . just thught I'd share.

[Lucky Jim]

I take responsibility for that and allow myself to forgive myself for that.  That is still a work in progress

Well said, woods posse.  I think you articulated two necessary steps: First, taking responsibility for one's own role in getting involved in a r/s with a pwBPD in the first place; and Second, forgiving oneself for staying in an unhealthy, abusive r/s that someone less codependent would probably have run from.  Maybe a Third step is giving oneself credit for having had the strength and loyalty to remain in a BPD r/s for as long as we did.

Lucky Jim

[woodsposse]

That is a very well stated third step, Jim.

I prefer to look at it like this:  If we spent all that energy loving the wrong person, imagine what loving the right person would look like.   

[myself]

imagine what loving the right person would look like.

That person being ourself, with a better life branching out from there.

I agree with Lucky Jim, there is a lot of good in the past, and how we chose to live it with our exes. If this were a different illness, we would be seen as doing well to have stood by our loved ones. Instead of looking at it as if we had done something wrong, something FOO-driven or FOG-infused. It's not always the same for everyone.

Yes, being with someone with less problems will have a better chance of leading to a successful r/s. This site, for one, is helping those odds increase. Less chaos!

[growing_wings]

Sure, I miss "her" from time to time.  But after coming here, I finanlly realize I can't miss something I never really had. What I was seeing wasn't her - as much as I thought it was or made myself believe, it wasn't.

woods posse, you post good points, thanks for sharing them!...

i like the stuff you wrote above: not being able to miss something we never really had... .

soo true... so true. this is the final hiding place i have... the understanding that really? the relationship that i "miss" was not there, did not exist...   and will never exist. i need to let that go...

good one! 

[Madison66]

Outstanding posts and so real!  I share the feeling that how can I miss what wasn't real or true?  I say that at the same time that I know my love was real and like I posted before, I left my ex gf and her kids in a better place than I found them.  That radical acceptance helped bring me peace and forgiveness.  The chaos, especially the emotional chaos is something I don't miss nor will I ever welcome back into life.  I'm learning through a new r/s I started in the last month with a healthy non PD lady that the chaos doesn't have to be there for there to be excitement, energy, discovery, etc.  I feared that the lack of chaos would translate into a lack of all of those things.  I found I can be real and aware and present and really feel the energy, the excitement, the emotions, etc. and not worry about when the BS is coming or having to defend myself against emotional or physical abuse.  I feel that about life in general and I'm giddy like a schoolgirl! 

[tinkerbell09]

New here... only two days out from new NC. Broke NC a few times... won't do it again!

Nodding as I read these things... . learning. Helping me a lot!

exBPD male... . unending chaos! Had to choose me over "it" too... . had to! feeling less selfish and guilty about it.

Looking at myself now... trying to start healing.

[love4meNOTu]

You know, the chaos itself began with little things... and grew, and grew and grew.

Classic frog in the pot situation. As the heat increases little by little... and all of a sudden, it's boiling!

I've come so far from that. When he left initially it was dead quiet. But you know, now it's wonderful... . I am not incessantly worrying about what is going to happen next, my new (old) love is with me and I've never been so happy.

I was mistaken with my ex husband. I thought I loved him.

But the truth is, I was bored. He was exciting in a bad way. I've never met a person like him, I hope to never meet anyone like that again.

Yuck.

[woodsposse]

You know, the chaos itself began with little things... and grew, and grew and grew.

Classic frog in the pot situation. As the heat increases little by little... and all of a sudden, it's boiling!

I've come so far from that. When he left initially it was dead quiet. But you know, now it's wonderful... . I am not incessantly worrying about what is going to happen next, my new (old) love is with me and I've never been so happy.

I was mistaken with my ex husband. I thought I loved him.

But the truth is, I was bored. He was exciting in a bad way. I've never met a person like him, I hope to never meet anyone like that again.

Yuck.

Oh I don't know about yuck.

I loved my ex.  I still do.  Part of me would invite her in at this very moment for coffee which I know would lead to wine, which would lead to a passionate night of sex... . which would lead to the world come crashing  down the next day.

But part of me misses the ride.

That's me... . not her.

Can you say the same?

[Landslide2014]

I've gained a lot here. Thank you, Madison for bringing up the point to ponder.  As I see it here in this thread, there are a group of people who have chosen to take a challenging situation (understated) and reap the positive.  My gratitude is that I have been blessed with the opportunity for growth because I am open to it. That is a gift.  I don't know that my uBPDH has that capability (actually I'm quite certain he doesn't) and that makes me feel sorry for him. I am learning that I am not, however, responsible for that. I relate, woods posse, to wanting and thinking I can fix it and you really opened my eyes when you said "I don't want to abandon someone because I know how it feels to be abandonded". perhaps I need to look at that. It struck a chord in me.  I am trying to end, WILL BE ENDING, my 21+ marriage. It has been difficult, but I know what must be done to regain my own sanity. Myself, you got it right for me when you said the next love relationship is about me.  I love that. And I agree, no matter how often my uBPDH tells me otherwise that I am practicing self care, not selfishness. I have learned to give the genuine unconditionally me, not the altered me that I have tried  to be because I thought it would make things better.  That is crazy making, and crazy, I am good to no one. If someone chooses to see it otherwise, I do not have to accept it as fact. I will share what gifts I have with those who are capable of receiving them. That is healthy.  I aspire to all of your input. Thank you for sharing.

[ScotisGone74]

I just wanted to tell everyone who posted in this thread thanks for sharing all of your insight and experience.    Great viewpoints lessons and stories.   

When you give someone real love only to have them eventually spit in your face it hurts.     But really in the long run we are truly better off.