Do pwBPD also see things as an extension of themselves?

[Depression = 72% of members]

It was mentioned on another thread about their uPBD mother giving them things whether they wanted it or not, and it reminded me of something I've been thinking on and off for awhile now.

Often I've felt like a dumping ground for things my mom doesn't want anymore. For example, she cleaned out her pantry and instead of just throwing things away she gave it to me. Most of it was stuff I didn't like and wouldn't eat, and some of it was several years past the expiration date.

Growing up she insisted we hang on to practically everything. Then she would keep the things that meant the most to me (sports equipment that didn't even fit her, or items pertaining to my hobbies) or gave them away without asking because she had decided I wasn't going to use them anymore. Some toys I had wanted to keep for my kids she gave to my niece (again without asking) because "she was a girl and I wasn't going to have any girls." My son would have loved playing with them despite being "girl" toys and how does she know I'm not going to have any girls?

But then the second we bought a house, she dumped boxes upon boxes on my doorstep because she couldn't stand having it at her place anymore, and I ended up getting rid of most of it because I didn't really care much about that stuff she had already picked over.

Anything she gave us, whether she bought it new specifically for us or hand-me-down, she would get upset if we got rid of it.

I am not angry about it anymore, I guess I'm just curious and confused as to what line of thinking made her think that was okay. If they see other people as an extension of themselves, do they also sometimes feel the same about physical objects? It would make sense then why she'd get upset about getting rid of things because she might feel like I was getting rid of her, but I can't figure out why she would only give away the things that were important to me. Was she just that oblivious or was she getting rid of things intentionally? Come to think of it, the hobby and sports stuff were all things I was better at than her, so I wonder if it was just a way to even out the playing field so to speak?

Anyway, I'm just kind of rambling and wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this type of behavior.

[Sitara]

It was mentioned on another thread about their uPBD mother giving them things whether they wanted it or not, and it reminded me of something I've been thinking on and off for awhile now.

Often I've felt like a dumping ground for things my mom doesn't want anymore. For example, she cleaned out her pantry and instead of just throwing things away she gave it to me. Most of it was stuff I didn't like and wouldn't eat, and some of it was several years past the expiration date.

Growing up she insisted we hang on to practically everything. Then she would keep the things that meant the most to me (sports equipment that didn't even fit her, or items pertaining to my hobbies) or gave them away without asking because she had decided I wasn't going to use them anymore. Some toys I had wanted to keep for my kids she gave to my niece (again without asking) because "she was a girl and I wasn't going to have any girls." My son would have loved playing with them despite being "girl" toys and how does she know I'm not going to have any girls?

But then the second we bought a house, she dumped boxes upon boxes on my doorstep because she couldn't stand having it at her place anymore, and I ended up getting rid of most of it because I didn't really care much about that stuff she had already picked over.

Anything she gave us, whether she bought it new specifically for us or hand-me-down, she would get upset if we got rid of it.

I am not angry about it anymore, I guess I'm just curious and confused as to what line of thinking made her think that was okay. If they see other people as an extension of themselves, do they also sometimes feel the same about physical objects? It would make sense then why she'd get upset about getting rid of things because she might feel like I was getting rid of her, but I can't figure out why she would only give away the things that were important to me. Was she just that oblivious or was she getting rid of things intentionally? Come to think of it, the hobby and sports stuff were all things I was better at than her, so I wonder if it was just a way to even out the playing field so to speak?

Anyway, I'm just kind of rambling and wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this type of behavior.

[Deb]

My dBPD sister gave away things that belonged to both of us because she didn't want them anymore. When I protested, she said "oh, you didn't want it anyway." 

[AnnieSurvivor]

This is a good question, I suspect there might be something to it.  My uBPD mother is a low-grade hoarder (not as bad as the TV show, but still bad).  She seems to have an emotional attachment to everything, including old McDonalds receipts!  One time I tried to be helpful and organized her shoes and threw out old, dusty/moldy shoe boxes, and even that sent her into a tailspin with sobbing, anger, hurt, you name it. Definitely not a normal reaction.  Needless to say I am no longer helpful in this way.

[AsianSon]

Hi Sitara,

Your question brought several instances to my mind.  For example, my uBPD mother tends to "give" kitchen and dining items like dishes and pots and pans.  Usually, they are older ones that she doesn't care for anymore and then pushes on her children whether they want them or not.  To refuse would be a slight against her.  To accept means that the strings that are attached may one day be pulled. 

But the biggest instance is with furniture, where she will push items on her children and then expect to take the furniture back if she wants it.  So again, we children have to store/keep the furniture.  While we are free to use it during that time, she can "take back" any furniture at anytime.  Examples include two twin beds that she did not want after getting a king size bed.  But then she did not like the king bed anymore and so took back the twin beds while dropping off the king.

I sometimes guess that this helps feed her "queen" tendencies---this behavior lets her feel like she has more options and control over things. 

As for giving things away, my mother does that too, or she has garage sales with 50 cent tags for things that are sentimental to others.  She gives me the impression that she only sees things from her point of view.  A lack of empathy---I don't think that she relates to things as important to someone else. 

[Deb]

As for giving things away, my mother does that too, or she has garage sales with 50 cent tags for things that are sentimental to others.  She gives me the impression that she only sees things from her point of view.  A lack of empathy---I don't think that she relates to things as important to someone else. 

This is my sister. She just sees something as not wanted by her, ergo, no one else wants it.

As for giving things, an ex-friend who I suspect is BPD, became livid when I turned down her used, barely working coffee pot and sewing machine. I was polite and explained I had just bought new ones, but she was furious. Most people would have asked if I wanted the items and been ok with my response. But she just told me she was giving them to me and became irate that I didn't want them. Like I was rejecting her.

[AsianSon]

 But she just told me she was giving them to me and became irate that I didn't want them. Like I was rejecting her. [/quote]
I suspect the BPD mind can only see their own view (that they are doing something they see as good or right) and so cannot handle any reaction that is different. 

[StarStruck]

Hi Sitara

Whats yours is there's sort of thing, poor boundaries. Like you said, sort of like a person being an extension. As they feel you are theirs they think your objects are too. Included whats been mentioned by AsianSon, no empathy on the importance to you. I think they feel guilt about buying things that they know they didn't really need but they've gained a bit of an obsession about it... . say new pans, so they relieve their guilt by thinking well 'so and so will get good use out of them.' Justifying their odd logic.

The fact that she may keep stuff that you were good at. It's like if she has the item in her possession, she achieved those things... . 'reminding' her how good she is for having a daughter that achieve x therefore she must be that good. About getting rid without asking you after hoarding it. I think I would have the same conclusion as you. Either 1) that she's spiting you in some way in her mind, yes leveling out the playing field or 2) she totally believes they are hers to give away, they were important to her for such period that she's got an attachment and consider them as hers - but that view could be pushing it a bit, that would be pretty delusional or 3) those objects may strongly resemble you to her and she's cutting painful ties in her mind. I would say maybe a split between 1) & 3).

[CrazyNoMore]

I also had stuff forced on me by uBPDM, and was never allowed to throw anything out - while being constantly screamed at for my room being such a mess.  (There's only so much you can do with crap you don't want anyway in a room slightly larger than your average office cubicle!) 

The collection of little spoons stands out for me.  When I was a teenager, she decided I needed to collect something and spoons it was.  I didn't care one whit about little spoons.  (You know these things?  They have some little doodad at the end of the handle to make it a souvenir-type thing -- a maple leaf from Vermont, or a conch shell from Florida.)  They weren't family heirlooms or actual antiques or anything like that.  They were just little souvenir doodads, from places I had never been. (Most were from her women's group bus trips.)  Birthday, Christmas, Easter, even Valentine's day - I'd get a little box with a spoon.  And I'd smile and ooh and ahh. 

Now, I understand that even the most loving Mom can fall into a rut and/or miss the mark when it comes to gifts.  And, as a decent kid, you thank her and get on with life.  But that wasn't enough over these spoons. There was all kinds of angst over finding a display case for them and where to hang it and I was an ungrateful wretch (a favorite saying of hers) because I couldn't quite muster the appropriate enthusiasm for these spoons.  I didn't CARE if the case was oak or cherry finish!

Of course, I now realize, they were HER spoons... .

(My affinity for collecting seashells, however, was scorned.  "What are you, a seagull?" she'd say.)

When I went NC, the spoons went in the trash.   

[isshebpd]

I can definitely relate to what everyone is saying. My uBPDmom is a bit of hoarder too.

She has a lot tacky nick-nacks and wall hangings from the 60s-70s that were owned by her deceased Aunt. Her Aunt (my Great Aunt) was a wonderful woman but this stuff is so old and the hangings aren't in good condition. Her place looks weirdly dated because of it. I guess she just can't let go.

Overall, my parents seem to have so much "stuff" in their basement and garage which I know irritates my enDad. He asked me to help clear out part of their garage. It turns out most of the stuff in there belongs to my uNPDbro including two motorcycles that are little more than frames. They can't park their car in their garage because of this motorcycle junk (which my uNPDbro apparently hasn't done much with in years) and other garbage. My enDad was so nervous about throwing out stuff, and told me he had to discuss it with my uBPDmom or uNPDbro. At one point, I told him something had to be thrown out because it had mold on it, and even then my enDad was hesitant. So very very frustrating.

We've also had problems with junk foisted upon us. We moved into a new apartment, and we needed something to stuff for our bathroom. So uBPDmom gave my wife a used plastic shower rack with suction cups. My wife tried to stick it to the wall but it didn't work. So she threw it away, as it was worthless. One day, my uBPDmom calls my wife and somehow the plastic shower rack comes up. I came home from work to find my wife in tears. You'd think she'd thrown out a family heirloom. Ever since then, we've been nervous about accepting even the most disposable stuff.

Anyhow, I could go on... .

[clljhns]

Sitara,

I, too, have experienced this with my mom and sisters. They would force things on me, even when I would tell them that I didn't need anything. They would always act hurt or offended, as if what they had offered MUST be exactly what I wanted. They are also very cruel about receiving gifts from me. I gave my mother a beautiful, hand-painted glass ornament for Christmas. She already had several, as she was creating a theme for her tree. She looked at it, and said "Oh. An ornament. You won't mind if I take this back." I gave my oldest sister's husband a replica of an old radio. She brought it to my house and hide it behind my sofa. When I questioned her about this, she stated that they just didn't want it and if I was upset, then that was my problem. She also begged for me to let her son enjoy a lighted snowman for the Christmas holidays. I agreed, but reminded her that I would want this back as this was a childhood memento, and she already had three other items for Christmas from our childhood. When we all went NC, I asked for the snowman to be returned, and she said, "Oh. I didn't think you would want it, so I got rid of it." I asked her why she didn't check with me first, and she reiterated what she had already said, with an incredulous tone.

My mother also would buy items in excess. For example, she would buy five of the same sweater in different colors because she said she needed them. She had five closets full of clothes, and one bedroom designated for handbags, scarves, and shoes. It was ridiculous. She would also bring me food, and when I would tell her that I had enough and could never eat that much before it went bad, she would just push past me and start stocking my pantry.

My oldest sister sent back every picture of my daughter that I had given her over a 23 year period. When I asked her why, she stated that it was just too painful to look at the pictures. I have no idea why pictures of my child would cause her pain, I suspect that it was a means to let me know that she was angry with me. For what I don't know.

I think that pwBPD sees these actions as a means of control, so that they can lord it over you later. I heard from my mom on many occasions all that she had done for me, and how I didn't appreciate it. It didn't matter that I had not asked for these things, and even would ask her to take them back, she still would remind me of what she had done for me. As for my sisters, they wouldn't remind me of what they had done for me, they would just find ways to undermine me to my family, laugh about me to my husband and daughter, and even try to pit one against the other. So, I think it is partly seeing themselves as extensions of others, but also a means of control.

[MyLifeNow]

This sounds a lot like my undiagnosed BPD father. He's always attached a great deal of emotional meaning to things, and seems to try to gain some emotional security by owning lots of things. When I graduated from university we had just finished selling the house I grew up in and were moving to an apartment in a bigger city. During the months leading up to this event I waged a hard fought downsizing campaign. I even had to argue with him over getting rid of the broken down snowblower and the lawnmower. In the end we still filled most of a moving truck and, when we arrived at the 1BR apartment we had to stay in for a month until the new apartment was ready for us the boxes filled the place 5 feet high and to the point where you could barely walk between them.

Over years of apartment living he got things down to a more tolerable level, but he still has an entire storage locker filled that is normally meant to be used by everybody on that floor of the building. These things seem to be a connection to an idealized past that forms his internal identity, so getting rid of them is an incredibly painful process of chipping away at the self. I'm lucky that he never got into rages over me refusing to take things, but he does get really depressed when I refuse (which I have to, I live in an apartment too and barely have room for my own things). A prime example is some of his dad's plumber's tools and other items from his childhood home. He's asked me several times if I wanted them, and after several refusals if I'd keep them after he is gone... . almost like they're some kind of memorial so that the world will remember he existed.