Age for moving on

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all

I haven't posted for a while but this board has been really helpful for me in beginning my recovery from being brought up by an uBPD mother.  I was the all bad child and finally realised my mother was classic BPD about 2-3 years ago although I always knew something was badly wrong with her.  I am LC and so ongoing issues with my mother are minimised.  I have really begun a process of significant change on the past few years and begun to cope with my past much better, e.g giving up drinking and reacting to things in a calmer more secure manner.  However I still struggle to build new relationships and also to know what I want from life.  I also feel like I am late to the party for everything - I'm 38 and really just started my recovery so I have just had a baby for example as I didn't feel able to be a parent when I was younger.  Also I am now looking for a new job as I had to give up my previous job so am not settled in my career.  I feel like I'm well behind my peer group in terms of family and career progress.

What I wanted to ask was when others started to recover and if anyone else found that it has delayed their development career and family wise? 

[Islandgrl]

Hi all

I haven't posted for a while but this board has been really helpful for me in beginning my recovery from being brought up by an uBPD mother.  I was the all bad child and finally realised my mother was classic BPD about 2-3 years ago although I always knew something was badly wrong with her.  I am LC and so ongoing issues with my mother are minimised.  I have really begun a process of significant change on the past few years and begun to cope with my past much better, e.g giving up drinking and reacting to things in a calmer more secure manner.  However I still struggle to build new relationships and also to know what I want from life.  I also feel like I am late to the party for everything - I'm 38 and really just started my recovery so I have just had a baby for example as I didn't feel able to be a parent when I was younger.  Also I am now looking for a new job as I had to give up my previous job so am not settled in my career.  I feel like I'm well behind my peer group in terms of family and career progress.

What I wanted to ask was when others started to recover and if anyone else found that it has delayed their development career and family wise? 

[AsianSon]

Hi Islandgrl,

I think the delay you refer to can happen at anytime.  In my 20s and 30s, I had no idea that my mother was uBPD, and so I was busy starting my own family and work independent of her.  Maybe I subconsciously knew that limited contact was better.   

But I stilled tried to take care of my parents' needs, which wasn't easy (or maybe easier) because I was on the other side of the country. 

In the past 5-6 years, I tried to be physically closer, but my mother's behaviors intensified.  This was the same time that my kids needed me more and the net result was a delay in my work goals for this time. 

The delay increased these past 2 years as her behaviors intensified, and I was at a lost to deal with them and their effects on me.  This led me to figure out the uBPD part of the picture. 

I'm still in recovery mode, and it hasn't been easy.  So you are not alone.  Hang in there!

[Islandgrl]

Thanks AsianSon - your support means a lot to me.  I guess I felt frozen in a way like I had no future.  It sounds like while you have put some goals on hold, you have been able to establish a successful career and family so well done.  I spent a lot of my 20s and 30s getting off my head and sabotaging my career and relationships.  That being said, I did educate myself and train for a professional career and establish myself financially to some degree but not perhaps to the same degree as my peers.  I have gained a lot of perspective in the last few years, I suppose I'm kicking myself now for not sorting myself out sooner.  But better late than never!  It sounds like you are working through things too but perhaps are further on.

Interesting, I know few people in my line of work with a chaotic family background and without wealthy families.  So maybe my peers are actually not who I think they are or maybe I just don't know what goes on behind closed doors.  Or alternatively I will recover in my own time and I should stop comparing myself to others! 

It is helpful to hear others experiences and I feel much less alone since I started posting /lurking on this board.

[strangerinparadise]

"Late to the party" is my new favorite term for discussing exactly what you are going through! I feel like I've lost a decade of my life, career, health, and happiness to this person's disorder.

You are on your way and you are gonna be awesome! 

[Sitara]

I was in my late 20's when I started really realizing something was wrong and was 30 before I actively did something about it. Having kids was a big part of this. I often struggle with feeling behind too, because I'm not sure my career path was my choice and I struggle with my kids because I feel like I don't know how to be a good parent for lack of example.

Try not to be too hard on yourself for not seeing sooner, and you're right, better late than never. You can still have a happy life even starting late. My big thing was learning just to be happy in the moment.

[AsianSon]

Thanks AsianSon - your support means a lot to me.  I guess I felt frozen in a way like I had no future.  It sounds like while you have put some goals on hold, you have been able to establish a successful career and family so well done.  I spent a lot of my 20s and 30s getting off my head and sabotaging my career and relationships.  That being said, I did educate myself and train for a professional career and establish myself financially to some degree but not perhaps to the same degree as my peers.  I have gained a lot of perspective in the last few years, I suppose I'm kicking myself now for not sorting myself out sooner.  But better late than never!  It sounds like you are working through things too but perhaps are further on.

Interesting, I know few people in my line of work with a chaotic family background and without wealthy families.  So maybe my peers are actually not who I think they are or maybe I just don't know what goes on behind closed doors.  Or alternatively I will recover in my own time and I should stop comparing myself to others! 

It is helpful to hear others experiences and I feel much less alone since I started posting /lurking on this board.

Hi Islandgrl,

I'm very glad I could help, but I am no where near out of the woods.  The past two years have been incredibly hard because I was juggling so much.  I was at a loss over the intensified BPD behaviors and it was a tremendous drag that has ripple effects to this day. 

Looking back, I feel I lost about 4-5 years and having fallen back to about 8-9 years ago.  Boy!  That's setting back nearly a decade because of the past few years.  So in a sense, any "normal" development I had has been set back quite a bit. 

On the other hand, just knowing that I was of some help, however small, to you is a great help to me.  So thanks to you too!

And in response to strangerinparadise and Sitara, I definitely feel "late to the party" in the sense of figuring out that it is BPD.  One bright spot in all this for me is a Table in the Christine Ann Lawson's book.  On page 35, the Table compares a BPD mother to a nonBPD mother.  I was floored at recognizing so many of the BPDm behaviors. 

But I was more shocked to see that I had thought some of them were ok and so ok to use in parenting! 

Thankfully, the table has also given me at least one set of good mothering/parenting examples to follow.  My kids were late high school by then, but "better late than never" and I'm glad that a little positive came from learning about / dealing with BPD. 

[Islandgrl]

Hey AsianSon

That's tough that you lost 8-9 years from the intensified BPD behaviours. However to look at the positives as you do, it sounds like you gained some perspective on good parenting from finding out about BPD. I just had my first child a few months ago so I'm new to parenting but I think it can be hard for those from abusive backgrounds to always tell which are healthy attitudes/good parenting skills.  Sitara - I def feel the same way, I had no good parenting example so I do worry that I won't do a good job.  So much of what my mother did seems like an anathema to me - I can't imagine hitting my daughter or screaming insults and telling her that I hate her.  That being said, like AsianSon says, there are attitudes that I thought were perfectly healthy that I need to reexamine.  For example, academics are important to me and I have so many hopes and dreams for my daughter but she may not be academically gifted.  I do think a responsible parent should encourage and even push (within reason) their child to do well at school and not allow them to be lazy but there's definitely a balance between encouraging your child to achieve their potential and do well for themself and pressuring your child to spend hours doing something they hate and that makes them miserable. It's hard for me to find the balance when my mothers attitude to anything less than academic perfection was to scream that I was stupid, useless and that my academic results were my only redeeming feature and now I didn't even have that (and sometimes to pull my hair or rain blows on me as she was saying this).  I think it will definitively help hat I love my daughter and want her to be happy - I can't imagine saying those things to her and hopefully I never will.  It will be hard for me to find a way to discipline her in a loving way when needed but I will do so and get help if I need it.  I'll take a look at page 35 in the Christine Ann Lawson book, AsianSon - that was a very useful book for me. 

Stranger in paradise - thanks for your kind words and all - thanks for your support.   we are all gonna be awesome, even more so than we already are.

[AsianSon]

Congratulations on your daughter, Islandgrl! 

I know that the birth of my daughter was a life changing event and even today, one of my mental "happy places" is me holding her as an infant playing peekaboo with her mother.  The sound of her happy, uninhibited laughter brings tears of joy to my eyes. 

In hindsight, I failed to accept her as much as I should have in earlier years.  This might have been due to my upbringing, which had many expectations like yours.  By the time I started to change about 1-2 years ago, I was scared it was too late.  And I encountered resistance and walls, which might have been built because of past treatment from me.  So now, I have to help take down those walls while also doing better at being her guide.

Hold on to your love for your daughter--few things in life are more precious.  And remember to accept her. 

I feel that the inability of BPDs to accept their own children hurt me and my siblings.  My mother probably got it from her mother.  So it leaves me (and I suppose you) in the position of stopping the transmission to the next generation.  (Lets just hope any genetic component is mild or missing.)

Also, you are very right about finding a balance.  But the examples from past generations and the experts seem limited.  It sounds like your mother had some "Tiger Mom" tendencies, and my mother was very similar.  (A mostly sad part, although a little amusing in a bitter way, was that for all the education that she expected us to achieve, she would unleash her anger at how we "used our learning against her" because she didn't have the opportunity when she was young.)

And the experts are amusing in their own way.  When my kids were younger, the main recommendation was to give positive feedback as much as possible.  Therefore, there were large numbers of "participation" trophies for my kids and their friends.  Now a shift is ongoing to the "praise hardwork" view, where outcomes are not as important as the effort put in by a child.  I suspect you and your daughter will see more of that in the years to come (until another shift occurs.)

By the way, the Table is 2-1 and it is on page 35 of my 2004 edition of the book.

Strength and wisdom to us all!

[StarStruck]

Islandgrl - I know exactly what you mean, I have spent a lot of time searching, seeking and maybe escaping and distracting rather than the conventional settle down situation, no doubt all due to my up bringing which by the sounds of it was very similar to yours. Try not to worry about comparing too much literally though, I just think it's great that you are on this fantastic journey. (Like you have said I'm sure before... . also with your unique skills and attributes) Totally with you on the job aspirations and family; The main reason for this for me, I couldn't focus on what I needed and I 'fell' in with all the wrong partners, one after another. We WILL get there  

Try not to think this 'thing' has cost me anymore, strive forward from today and go and have a life of depth and richness, you deserve it, we all do, it's really great to know we are in this together that there's other people that know SS x

to you all

[clljhns]

Island Girl

I personally new something was wrong in my family at a very young age, about 7. I am the youngest of five children. My mother would fly into rages that resulted in physical abuse directed at two of my siblings, not me or oldest sibling. Bizarre is the only way to describe my childhood. I wanted to break away many times after I went to college, but felt guilty. I found myself in abusive relationships as this is what I knew. This only strengthened the toxic bond with my family. It wasn't until I was 38 that I made the break for the border of sanity! I had given an anniversary card to dear friends of mine. My mother happened to be present (she forced herself into the situation without being invited). My mother read the card and I saw the all to familiar look on her face. I ignored it and went on with my evening. I was shunned by parents for three days. When my father finally answered the phone, I was told that they had not answered my calls because I had hurt them. How did I do this, I asked. My father related that because I signed the card "Love always" they were devastated because this obviously meant that I did not love them. This was my epiphany. Without even thinking, I told him that they were both crazy. I didn't yell it. I merely stated it in a calm voice with a tone of disbelief. It finally dawned on me in that moment that I needed to step into the light and out of the black hole that I was sucked into at birth. Thus began my journey to healing. I went into therapy and still to this day struggle at times with the loss. Not what I had, but what I wanted with my family. I too have felt that I was always behind the Bell curve and would not be able to catch up to my peers. I see many of peers in loving and long-term relationships, and this has not happened for me. I recently moved 1400 miles away from my home state to help with the separation. I can tell you that with each passing day I feel stronger and more powerful. The negative messages in my brain have lessened. Ironically, I have a great support system through a friend of 23 years. I don't think you should put an age-limit on anything that you plan to do. Look back at where you started and praise yourself for the distance you have traveled!

BTW-so glad to have met a fellow member who has the same experiences, but so sorry that you had to deal with this, if both of these sentiments can coexist

[Islandgrl]

Thanks so much for all the responses, they have been really helpful.  I hope to comment on some other points later but just wanted to say clljhns experience resonated with me.  I can't have any kind of normal conversation with my mother - eg just have a normal discussion with her about anything without it resulting in either silent furious huff, outright anger or, sometimes if I were to compliment her and agree with everything she said, strange glee (she does seem to have "normal" conversations with others but when she does this even her voice and accent changes).  I remember lots of examples of totally inappropriate behaviour like you describe (eg silent fury and then outright rage at me when she wasn't invited to a friend of mines (who she barely knew) baby's christening) but I never really had an epiphany.  I think it's because I was the 'all bad' child so I always knew or maybe hoped that my mother was crazy but it was hard not to believe all the awful things she said about me.  In any event, I suppose I was never inclined to agree with someone who ranted on about how she hated me and I was worthless.  I still feel scared when making choices about my life and I think that's related to the unpredictable response to anything I would do - even something normal and positive could result and angry catastrophising response.  It's hard for me now to be responsible for my daughter ( it feels scary as so much could go wrong) but I am brave and think motherhood is helping me grow a lot.  Cljhns - I have thought about the distance I travelled and I'm hopeful my experience will make me a better mother and person (and think it will).  Thanks for your insight. 

Good for you cljhns for moving away.  I hope your journey continues to go well and you continue to grow in a positive way. 

[clljhns]

Islndgrl,

I can't have any kind of normal conversation with my mother - eg just have a normal discussion with her about anything without it resulting in either silent furious huff, outright anger or, sometimes if I were to compliment her and agree with everything she said, strange glee (she does seem to have "normal" conversations with others but when she does this even her voice and accent changes). 

When I read this I was reminded of how my mother would talk in public to people. She would always smile and act very demur. This was so confusing to me. I never had those experiences with her. My conversations with her always resulted in her yelling at me and telling me what I should do about my life, since I had screwed it up so much.

Yes. I know that you will be a great mother to your daughter! I was terrified at first when I had my daughter, but vowed that I would visit upon her the abuse that had been visited upon me and my siblings. I was afraid to ever let my feelings show though, because I was afraid that I would be like my mother. I do have a very strong bond with my daughter and cannot express the joy she has brought to my life.

Just to share a twisted moment in my life with my mother concerning my daughter, I will tell you of a conversation we had when my daughter was 17.

Mom: "I noticed that C died her hair red."

Me: "Yes. I know because I bought the dye and did it for her."

Mom: "Well, now she has pierced her nose!"

Me: "Yes. I gave her permission and went with her to do it. I think it is very attractive." (It is a very tiny diamond)

Mom: Now clearly enraged because I won't take the bait. "Well! You know what that means! She is going to be doing drugs! She probably already is! You just need to cut your losses and let her go!"

Me: "Mom. If she walked through that door with piercings in her eyebrows, lips, chin, and all over her ears. With black nail polish on and wearing all black, I would love her anyway."

Mom: Now yelling. "What does that mean?"

Me: "It means that I love her unconditionally, and I always will, no matter what she does."

Mom: Complete silence.

When I made the decision to tell about the abuse and break ties, my daughter was 18 and in her first year of college. My daughter was relieved and told me that she really didn't want contact with them because my parents really never showed her love, they only bought things for her. She and her college friends made a CD compilation of inspirational songs for me and my sisters. The first song was "Another One Bites the Dust", by Queen. There were many other songs of encouragement and love. This was so beautiful! I think that I did accomplish one thing with my daughter, she is a very compassionate and loving person. She is now 27 and living in another country pursuing her dreams. I am so proud of my daughter!

I know you will find that your daughter will bring you much joy and happiness! Continued support to you on your journey!