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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: My exbfwBPD moved out into his own place so how can he fear aloneness then?  (Read 575 times)
barbwire911
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« on: April 04, 2014, 07:02:24 PM »

So can anyone explain this? My exbfwBPD and my relationship grew out of an affair.  Both of us were married and with our spouses at the time.  His wife knew he had about 6 affairs on her in their 5 year marriage. This was my first. So my exbfwBPD actually moved out of his house into his own place by himself.  So if they are afraid or abandonment why do that and be alone?  Mind you he had me at the time and although he claimed he did not move out for me at all but because he knew his marriage had failed, he did get the soonest move out  date he could as he wanted to be with me.  Then 2 weeks later he suddenly felt engulfed and pulled away.

Then he returned after a few weeks as we had space. Now he has been silent for 6 weeks as we had an argument... . I am not sure what exactly as there were a few issues but I think it is that I asked for space as we started fighting.  I did not mean I was leaving but just some space to cool off and then discuss.  Well he went silent for a week and then we spoke for 2 hours on the phone one night and he seemed fine and was asking me to lunch and telling me he had loved me. Then I heard the next day he was actually "moved on" already to some new girl.  So I just called him (and knowing BPD I was very calm) asked him if it was true.  He was fine until I asked that. Then he got angry and defensive and said "I do not even know what you speak of and you were never anything to me and we were never anything."  Then he hung up and nothing since then despite me trying to figure out what is going on. 

I was upset initially and I hate silent treatment and he knows I am a communicator so it irks me.   At any rate if he was really afraid of being alone, why leave the stability of the spouse (despite he could not stand her and cheated constantly and was forced into couples counselling with her that he hated as he did not even want to be near her)?  if he were truly afraid to be alone would putting up with the spouse and staying there not be better?

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HappyNihilist
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2014, 08:26:50 PM »

Not everyone is the same. For some pwBPD, the fear of engulfment might overshadow the fear of being alone. People define alone differently, too. Living on one's own does not equate to "being alone." Specifically in this case, it sounds like he's not alone at all. He's had you, his wife, and the new girl. 

As far as his marriage goes, and the specifics of why he actually moved out... . well, lying isn't really a defining characteristic of pwBPD, but you have to remember that their truth may not necessarily be reality.
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barbwire911
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 08:38:45 PM »

@Happy:  Yes I kind of pondered if the word "alone" could mean more than just being physically alone. LOL... yes he has had many women... . it is a constant stream even while he was married.  I know our affair was wrong and we were both in troubled marriages but that does not justify our actions.

But I agree with you that the word "alone" is the key and I think as long as he is not emotionally alone, he is OK maybe... . I do not know. 6 weeks of silent treatment ongoing... .
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 07:00:00 AM »

Excerpt
So can anyone explain this? My exbfwBPD and my relationship grew out of an affair.  Both of us were married and with our spouses at the time.  His wife knew he had about 6 affairs on her in their 5 year marriage. This was my first.

His wife knew he had 6 affairs in 5 years? Probably not. Chances are this information is highly suspect because it was told to you for a reason. That reason was to undermine his attachment to his wife as though she didn’t care about the affairs, otherwise you might have felt some empathy for her. But if it was true, (given the history,) why did you think that your affair with him was more special than the previous 6? There is a pattern of betrayal of his wife and a high turnover rate of failed relationships. Why did you believe you were different? There is a fantasy at play here and a hope that he will be different with you. This is going to keep you stuck until you change your beliefs.

It takes a long time to detox from the drug-like induced state of being in a fantasy relationship and for it to sink in that the partnership cannot survive a lifelong commitment.

Reality involves tremendous anxiety because you never know where you stand until you realize that in fantasy, you almost always know where you stand and it’s always in future tense, never *now.* Now is over too quickly. Everything is geared toward the next time you meet. Your longing for the future creates the perfect fantasy atmosphere that never happens. Unfortunately, this is also the perfect Petri-dish for a slow, spiritual death because of the secrecy, isolation and shame it brings. Something has to break through your belief system to make you understand this is no way to live.

Fantasy gives you that "high" but it is inauthentic. It places great importance on flattery, beauty, intelligence, or whatever you were told to make you feel that you were more special than these other affairs.  That's not to say that you aren't special, but when someone is going overboard on the compliments, you have to question what their motive is. You can also correlate the need to hear these things with the emptiness you felt in your life and more specifically, your marriage. This needs to be addressed.

Excerpt
he claimed he did not move out for me at all. Then 2 weeks later he suddenly felt engulfed and pulled away.

This is not engulfment. An unavailable, married partner rarely causes a fear of engulfment. In fact, this is why many cluster B personalities choose to have affairs with married people in the first place, because there is no honest availability, so there is no fear of becoming too close. There is also no authentic intimacy, because the affair is only serving as a fantasy escape from reality (for both parties.)  It does not activate fears of engulfment because there is no attachment when affair partners are already attached to someone else.

Excerpt
Then he returned after a few weeks as we had space. Now he has been silent for 6 weeks as we had an argument... . I am not sure what exactly as there were a few issues but I think it is that I asked for space as we started fighting.  I did not mean I was leaving but just some space to cool off and then discuss.  Well he went silent for a week and then we spoke for 2 hours on the phone one night and he seemed fine and was asking me to lunch and telling me he had loved me. Then I heard the next day he was actually "moved on" already to some new girl.

Yes, there is a pattern. The best predictor of future behavior is the pattern of past behavior. How many successful relationships should a person have by the time they are an adult? If he were to actually stop these serial affairs, it would mean he would have to address the reasons for the affairs in the first place and why he felt that they were the answer to his woes.  The same goes for you. There is a neediness and hunger that needs feeding. People are very useful in that regard. But you cannot expect to have peace in your life when you have so many loose ends that need to be tidied up and your attention is focused on an affair partner who is a poor imitation of flawless character.

Excerpt
So I just called him (and knowing BPD I was very calm) asked him if it was true.  He was fine until I asked that. Then he got angry and defensive and said "I do not even know what you speak of and you were never anything to me and we were never anything."  Then he hung up and nothing since then despite me trying to figure out what is going on.  

Having a conversation with him without reaction isn’t a personal victory- It is deadening yourself to your primal instincts- which should have alerted you long ago to disordered, cruel people and cause you to flee from them. You have a right to be angry as long as it provides you some self preservation and you don’t return for more abuse. Have you understood your anger? Is it helping you detach?

If you think you’re going to sit down and have another “talk” about how he has abandoned you, forget it. These actions involve feelings and they will only be turned against you. You‘ve got to take back the idea that you are different from these other affair partners. He’s cruelly letting you know you are not. As uncomfortable as this may be, it is also a time for introspection. He obviously cannot give you stability, nor should he. If your marriage is over, then take action to end it on your own, not because you have found someone new to move on to. This will be your greatest life challenge to date and only you can accomplish this. There is no room for bargaining.

Excerpt
I was upset initially and I hate silent treatment and he knows I am a communicator so it irks me.

This isn’t silent treatment. You cannot afford to waste your time waiting on a man who tells you point blank that you don’t matter to him. It is over. You’ve got to turn your attention to what you want from life from now on, not from him.

There is a reason he is a serial philanderer. No story with a serial philanderer ever has a happy ending, so get rid of the fantasy that you are the one who will change him and he is the one who will come and rescue you from your marriage.  It's not going to happen. That fantasy is over. I know it hurts, but as they say, these things never end well. You will heal faster if you let go and stop waiting for his next move to hurt you more.

Excerpt
At any rate if he was really afraid of being alone, why leave the stability of the spouse (despite he could not stand her and cheated constantly and was forced into couples counselling with her that he hated as he did not even want to be near her)?

I’m certain she would have a different story. What you fail to realize is that you and she are very much in the same boat and are currently having the same outcome.

Excerpt
So my exbfwBPD actually moved out of his house into his own place by himself.  So if they are afraid or abandonment why do that and be alone? if he were truly afraid to be alone would putting up with the spouse and staying there not be better?

You are projecting yourself onto him in a way that speaks volumes. There was a reason that you did not leave your marriage and chose, instead to have an affair. What would be the answer if we take your own question and ask it of yourself?   “At any rate if I was really afraid of being alone, why leave the stability of my spouse (despite I could not stand him and cheated)?”  

Indeed. You straddle both worlds yet cannot commit to either. Perhaps this is an awakening for you to begin to work on your marriage or to make arrangements to move out, divorce and be alone. I hope you are able to resist the impulse to continue waiting for this Man to come and make that decision for you. You will never get what you want and need from him. You will not get respect, safety, love nor commitment- it’s not his to give. You are going to have to give it to yourself.

When you eliminate the need for disorder in your life, it makes a space for kind, nurturing people to enter.

Make the space for real love and kindness to come into your life.

It does exist ... . really.

But first, stop waiting for him.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)


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snappybrowneyes
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 09:49:42 AM »

At any rate if he was really afraid of being alone, why leave the stability of the spouse (despite he could not stand her and cheated constantly and was forced into couples counselling with her that he hated as he did not even want to be near her)?


You are overlooking an obvious point. His wife had no control over his actions, if she did he would not have had 6 affairs. So she did not force him into counseling, he chose to go for his own reasons. He could have left his wife at any time for one of the women he had an affair with or yourself. I guarantee his wife was not as bad as he said, that was his way to manipulate your feelings to feel sorry for him. If she was he would replace her just as he did the other women. He was getting a need met by her or he would not be there.

I think 2010 raised some great points, one being why did you think you would be different than all the rest of the affairs?  Why were you willing to settle for being a part time person in a clearly disordered individuals life? Why did you not leave your husband if you were so unhappy and not afraid to be alone? I am not trying to be harsh, it is just easier to look outside yourself for answers than within. When you answer the question of why this was an acceptable option for YOU then you will be able to heal.
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barbwire911
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 02:15:37 PM »

@2010:  I think you make alot of good and accurate points in relation to looking at myself and my marriage.  I am doing that in Therapy... . especially work on myself as I know I also have a horrid fear or moving out and being alone.  One issue my exwBPD had (which he admitted he let build in his head and did not speak to me about at all until the very end) was that he had a huge issue with me remaining in the same house with my ex spouse despite we had separated and were in separate rooms. In fact we had been living detached for some time and we did agree back in Jan. that given we had lived like that for a while and were amicable, that we would be separated and would continue just remaining in the same dwelling.

At first my exwBPD admitted this was OK with him but I saw subtle signs it was not and finally , in the second break up, he lashed out and I told him we had to go NC as he was yelling at me out of the blue saying I was sleeping with my ex and I was abnormal for my living situation whereas he was more normal as he had moved out away from his ex wife. Then he began chasing me again saying he was sorry and bottled that up and should have spoke to me about it instead and not just let it build up inside that is bothered him.

Anyways I know this was a point of contention with him.  But he even talked about me moving in with him right away and I was quick to say no as that , I knew , was not the right way to do things.  My spouse and I are currently still separated, despite the exBPD now being out of the pic however I acknowledge I am completely freaked out to move out and be "alone." I know it would be the right thing but it seems so scary for me and I am working on this in T but it has alot to do with my feeling abandoned as a child by my parents.  Thus I have a fear of abandonment and that I will never meet anyone else and am destitute to be alone even though I am successful, smart and pretty at 38 years old.

I know moving out feels right as my spouse and I have been emotionally and physically disconnected for so many years but I think we are both afraid to make that move. 

I do think my ex's wife does want him back though as she has called me at random intervals to yell at me "you slutty whore... . you took my husband away" when I did not but likely she is just very hurt so I understand why she lashes me out as I am the most recent one he had and I guess with optics, it could have appeared as he was leaving her for me.  One time though she did message me "he has moved onto X and never intended to be with you.  he just used you. You are naive if you think a man that cheated on his wife would treat you any better. You got him as you wanted however he just was not what you expected."

I have to say I thought that statement was quite smart and to the point in a sense. I am not sure if he is a user or what but I know he has been in T too and was diagnosed so far with severe anxiety, OCD, depression yet he is high functioning and appears normal at work but he acknowledges he has always had trouble with intimate and interpersonal relATIONSHIPS  and maintaining anything.  he also acknowledged in the past alot of moodiness and frequent anger swings for no reason and shutting down in communication to avoid problems so he runs away.  He opened up alot to me as we were friends before hooking up and he cried alot about how he knew I would leave him one day and deserved better as he was so screwed up, etc. At the time I never understood what he meant and always tried to reassure him.  he also told me some of his most secretive stuff about his life which he has not told anyone (from what he says) and he cried as he said it was so hard to open up to anyone but me.

Although it was a very turbulent relationship (our friendship before was very good though), he was very emotional alot whether be crying, angry, happy... . he was all over the place.  very similar to my dad and I was always chasing after dad's approval so know this is where my connection with him likely is too as he represents my father in many ways (mood swings, constant turnaround of women, recycles, no boundaries, etc.). My dad has bipolar and was diagnosed on lithium and I know Bi polar runs in my exwBPD family too (his aunt has it and his dad was exactly like him and on valium for severe anxiety for alot of his life).

So I am not sure if he is a "user" or not or whether his ex wife just lashes out that as I know she misses him alot despite his cheating.  One time I called his cellphone and she yelled into the phone "you slutty whore... . he is with his goddamn WIFE right now... . " yet they were separated and he had moved out but they were getting the house ready as it went on the market the next day.  he soon called me a few minutes afterwards when he left saying she is still very upset which i believe to be true. And then again, I know he has played her against me in the past. he has told her negative things about me and then he turns around and tells me negative things about her so I never knew what to believe and tried to read his actions. When we were together, his actions were always very doting up until this argument 6 weeks ago. He paid for dinners and took me everywhere and made dinner for me at his home and we had alot of good talks and much more. When my cat died he was there for me and very sympathetic and helped me through it as did my ex spouse.

So I know I have issues as does he but I guess given how silent he has been for these past 6 weeks I will never know what the hell really happened here. So bizarre.
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barbwire911
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 02:22:45 PM »

oh and he said he knew it was time to move out of his home when he saw his 5 year old daughters face and it had fear on it when he and his ex-wife were fighting. He said his ex wife wanted to try counselling and not break up and he was not ready to admit he had failed at his marriage so agreed but he wanted to leave her when she confronted him about the affairs. Or so he states.

He said had he not met me and I gave him the strength and he had someone listen to his issues, he never could have found the strength to enter T or move out. He said I taught him alot as a year ago he said he never would have agreed to take anti depressants and/or enter T for any issues as he was content to just blame everyone else for the anger he felt. So whether this was just words or not and he did use me, who knows but his behaviour now is a 180 turn from what he used to be before we had such a stupid argument and I just asked for a little space for us to cool down.  My friend says because I did that and he was so attached to me the silent treatment and him yelling at me on the phone "you never meant anything to me" is punishment for asking for space.  I notice too he hates being asked for space as whenever I asked for it in the past he was always reluctant or tried to keep me. This time though he just went silent. 
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In_n_Out
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2014, 02:40:47 PM »

People with depression (which of course often accompanies BPD) like to self wallow and they like to do that alone and usually in self destructive manners.  My expwBPD did/does this.  She had me moved out of our home when she was painting me black.  She still lives alone but of course had a replacement all lined up and ready.  So she can have her emotional needs fulfilled when she needs it and she can also easily sit at home and facebook and listen to youtube video's and drink and cry and think about the shame all the failed r/s's in her life and wallow in self pity.  Yours may be of the same nature.
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Take2
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2014, 02:56:14 PM »

My friend says because I did that and he was so attached to me the silent treatment and him yelling at me on the phone "you never meant anything to me" is punishment for asking for space.  I notice too he hates being asked for space as whenever I asked for it in the past he was always reluctant or tried to keep me. This time though he just went silent. 

The silent treatment is a form of control and punishment.  Mine has used it on me for over a year now.  Ever since he obtained the desired reaction from me - panic and begging and apologizing for things I hadn't done (but was accused of by him).  He KNOWS shutting me out is a massive trigger for me.  He uses the exact most hurtful words to say to me when angry and hit me where he knows it will hurt me most when I haven't given him the reaction or response he wanted... .    Mine has shut me out although we have actually talked here and there this week (most of if horribly mean from him)... .   who knows if he will come back and try to be nice to me... .   I would have to assume that in order for him to actually talk to me again, he will require a massive apology for disrespecting him for things I didn't do... .   but I can't say that... .   manipulation, control, punishment... .   he is a master at it... .
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2014, 08:45:23 PM »

yikes take2

exactly what i experienced too !
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