Escape or just ending? And answers to the 10 things that keep me stuck

[Danie14]

As I sit and think on this thing, my marriage, my husband, our dynamics, the possibility of BPD (in my H and/or myself), my kids…my life….all of it…I get so confused, feeling so messed up and ashamed (?) and stuck and….wow, the drama of it all is so much more than I ever, ever thought I’d be able to deal with…and the concept of leaving him? That’s intimidating…the sheer drama of it all. But what is really bugging me right now is the ‘pretending’ that is suggested to take place from me towards him. To make myself act like someone I’m not to get him to want to leave? Did I read that right? Is that the best techniques, the only techniques? What does that do to the non in the long term? I’m an open honest person with him and with others. This ‘pretending’ is something I don’t know that I can do, effectively. Thoughts? Anyone else feel similar and what/how did you handle that?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to address these too:

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness

No, I don’t believe that I used to believe that but realized that he’s the one in my life that hurts me the most. A husband is supposed to love honor cherish and respect their wife. A man is supposed to respect women. When I look back I can clearly see that he is the only one in my life who deliberately hurts me. Deliberately tries and sometimes manufactures ways to hurt me.

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

This one is hard. I had a hard time with this one because I’m a sucker, . Really tho, I *want* to believe. I want so badly to believe….hope is a killer. It’s hard rid of. I still hope for a miracle but I’m not omnipotent and I can’t ever really know the Creators plan…so I let that one go and let God take care of the ‘hope’ in me. I’ll just let the ‘hope’ rest for as long as it needs to.

Love isn’t defined the same by all people. We all define it for ourselves. A long time ago I was trying to understand this ‘love’ he has for me. It’s been years that I’ve been spinning the wheels in my mind on this and other issues I clearly ‘feel’ in my life but didn’t know how to see them. So anyway, a good long while ago I came to the conclusion that what my husband felt for me was something like love but it wasn’t love. I felt that he felt ‘need, possession, and control’ for me….that that was how he felt love….and that he loved me the best he could. Maybe the only way he knew now. This keep me afloat for a while but the knowledge/idea never satisfied me.

The last few years we’ve been arguing a lot more than normal. But differently. I’m no longer begging him to listen to me, to hear me, to not leave, etc. I’m trying very hard to not live my existence around him. I’m trying very hard to not walk on eggshells and just be open and honest, with compassion, towards him. Argh. I bet you all can guess how that’s going….sigh….so, anyway one of our big-middle-the-night-when-I’m-about-ready-to-fall-alseep-arguments has been about what love is? What does it mean? Define it. He said “………………………... ” and then a little more “………………………… everyone’s definition of love is different……………………... ” and I wouldn’t let it go and wouldn’t let him not answer me…so yea we argued until I got this out of him “Sex is the highest expression of love” ok. That’s his definition of love. No, he and I do not feel the same about each other.

3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by you or some circumstance

This one’s hard, too, but mostly all in my head. Logically I *know* that I simply do not have the power to MAKE him (or anyone else) do my bidding. If I had the power to make him do what I wanted him to do I certainly wouldn’t make him be a jerk or ass. I’d probably make him go to counseling, and make him look inside himself, make him face his fears and overcome those fears. So, I’ve come to terms with this logically.

However, illogically, I feel responsible. I feel like if I could just reach that magical plateau, find that one magic phrase/word/action…if I could just be a little bit better…then everything would be ok. We would live and love happily. Mostly, I used to feel like if I just didn’t say that or do that then he wouldn’t be so angry and we wouldn’t be arguing all the time.

I think this question/answer might be about blaming and not taking responsibility for one’s own actions. Or maybe about one not accepting the reality of the situation. There is a circumstance to pinpoint this mess on and that is BPD and all the goes along with it. I can point to BPD and say that is the cause of this messy marriage. Reality, my husband’s and my lack of healthy coping skills has cause this messy marriage. All that we have done has contributed to this mess.

4) Belief that love can prevail

“For you, significant emotional wounds have been inflicted upon an already wounded soul. To revitalize your end of the relationship, you would need to recover from your wounds and emerge as an informed and loving caretaker – it’s not a simple journey. You need compassion and validation to heal - something your partner most likely won’t understand – and you can’t provide for yourself right now”

This. This right here is how I feel and what I think…said so so much better than what I have been trying to express…

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

Nope. I don’t want things to go backward. That’s not who I am or how I am. Let’s keep moving forward and see what we’re heading towards…

The reality is that ‘the way things used to be…’ wasn’t all that great either. There’s always been this great-greatness and then the crappy-crapness in our relationship. When it’s good, wow, it is soo good and when it’s bad, well, it’s down-right hateful. It’s like there’s never just a happy medium. Sometimes I’ve felt like I want it all or nothing. It seems like I’ve been pushed into this all or nothing. Idk how to explain it…it’s like we could be happy, really happy, if only…but I’ve slowly accepted that there is no ‘if only’ that’s ever going to happen.

6) Clinging to the words that were said

I am clinging to all the horrible things that have been said over the years…heck over the last week…and that’s what I see now. I’m down, so down on everything about us. I am also clinging to the memories of myself…who I used to be and who I am now…

Something that’s been lingering in me is this memory of him and I many years ago…our kids were little (maybe 1 & 3) and I was explaining to him that when I got older, when we got older and our kids are older that I wanted to be able to look back at the memories we’ve created together and have good memories. Now, I look back and see that many of my memories are not good, they are tainted with hurt, confusion….and I cannot and will not blame that on him…but have to truly accept that I allowed these to be my memories. I had my reasons, and I doubt I’d change this if I could go back….but anyway I look at it it always remains the same. *THIS* is my reality. This is it. I can either continue this or stop it. It’s just hard…

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

I don’t yell anymore. I never really did yell too much. I grew up with my dad and one brother. We had a quite house. No yelling, no shouting, no cussing, none of that. We talked to each other about whatever. Granted, my dad was pretty passive and maybe a bit aggressive in his passiveness. I also grew up in an environment where physical fighting was almost a must to survive. I live in a tough neighborhood, but it’s also beautiful and it’s home. So, anyway, I never learned how to argue properly. I realize that there is a good way and a bad way to argue one’s point.

My husband grew up in a very emotionally and physically abusive home life. It was very bad and is verified by his mother and siblings. His mom and dad are still married now. His dad was very mean and beat his mom and him and his siblings until he was old enough to fight back and protect them. So, I get why he is the way he is. He’s tried very hard to not be like his dad….but apparently not hard enough because he is just like his dad. He’d hate to hear me say that.

When he and I argue anymore I just walk away, I try very hard to not engage, I try not to ‘react’ in the moment but try to give myself some time to figure out how to respond…and sometimes I have nothing to say but “seriously?” because what he’s saying literally makes no sense to me. Twisted. It used to be that I would get all wrapped up in defending myself, justifying my actions/thoughts etc….now I don’t see the point. He is going to believe whatever he believes anyway so why bother? It’s just not worth my time or energy anymore because nothing ever changes anyway.

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

Maybe so, maybe not. Anyway you slice it the facts remain the same. Will I miss him? Yes, but will it be HIM that I’m missing? Or will it be the guy I want him to be that I’ll be missing? I think what will happen is that he’s going to try very hard to get me back, he’s going to be THAT wonderful man that I thought he was….and he’s going to be the scary man that I know he is….and I don’t know what I’m going to do when the onslaught comes….

….and…as crazy as it sounds….I kind of wonder if maybe it IS all in my head and he’ll just leave me alone. Just disappear from my life. I have a feeling that he’ll do a lot to keep me or to get me back and I have a irrational fear (yes fear) that he won’t do anything at all. Then will I compound the idea that I have that maybe it really is all me? If he just leaves me alone and gets over it….maybe I’ll be stuck on that…sheesh! WTH is wrong with me? Crazy thinking.

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them

This one is major for me. Huge. I think this may be the one thing that really and truly keeps me stuck…well, that and of course my kids but I’m not sure which is the bigger sticking point…

I’ve been with him since I was 21 yrs old. I’m a natural caretaker, it’s just in my blood. I’m sure it’s foo related growing up with my dad and brother it became my job to look after them. Cook, clean, make sure things got done when they were supposed to get done. It’s been 22 yrs I’ve been with him. One thing I know for sure is that I will always love him. There’s always going to be this spot in my heart for him. However, that doesn’t mean that I need him in my immediate life for me to love him like that. I told him this directly after his last affair.

This is the thing. FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE….and all that resides within those five words. The intent behind those words. Now, this is where I start getting myself confused. I want to leave him, I really-really…really…do…... and yet this keeps running thru my head. How do I help him if I can’t help myself? How can I help him if he’s unwilling to help himself? I can’t help him. I need to accept that I cannot help him. There is nothing I can do for him. That knowledge hurts me deeply but at the same time is freeing to my mind somehow.

I really worry about my kids. Very very much. I worry that he’s going to lean on them in ways that is inappropriate to them. They’re just kids and don’t have the skills or knowledge to deal with that from him. And it won’t matter to him what his neediness will do to them. How to I protect them?

10) Belief that they have seen the light

“Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.”

I’m the fool that had taken him back over and over again. Believing in him but never seeing real proof. I only saw what I wanted to see. I wanted so very badly. I can’t be that fool anymore. He’s never going to change. And this is the thing here….back to the love thing/question….what is love? To me it’s truly seeing and accepting the other person for who they are and helping them become the person they want to be…so, if I love him why do I want him to be someone different? He is who he is, PBD or not, this is him. He gets on my nerves. I think I’m shell shocked or hypersensitive to him and his actions anymore. For instance, this morning he got up and got ready. He was quite as he got ready. I immediately started thinking of what was wrong with him? really? Nothing’s wrong. He’s just getting ready and I’m just waiting on the mess to start.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I reread what I've written and think on things a bit... . it seems to me that letting go of that 'hope' is the hardest thing for me. It feels like giving up and I guess it is giving up... . but maybe it's also getting better?

[seeking balance]

But what is really bugging me right now is the ‘pretending’ that is suggested to take place from me towards him. To make myself act like someone I’m not to get him to want to leave? Did I read that right? Is that the best techniques, the only techniques?

Ok - where did you read this? 

If you are ready to leave, put a plan in place and leave - faking it and waiting for him is not something that I have seen as a workshop here.

Good job on working with the 10 False Beliefs - it does help us when we are ruminating.

As I reread what I've written and think on things a bit... . it seems to me that letting go of that 'hope' is the hardest thing for me. It feels like giving up and I guess it is giving up... . but maybe it's also getting better?

Hope can be tricky and has kept many of us stuck.

This is the leaving board - are you truly ready to leave the marriage or are you undecided still?  Depending up on where you are - there are different paths for achieving your objective.

Peace,

SB

[Danie14]

Hi

I'm not sure if I have this copy/paste and linking thing right. I think I do.

Ok - where did you read this? 

If you are ready to leave, put a plan in place and leave - faking it and waiting for him is not something that I have seen as a workshop here.

Anyway this is where I read that idea of 'pretending' and maybe I read it wrong but this is the quote that made me think that... .

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

- Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The Borderline" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.

- Begin dropping hints that you are depressed, burned out, or confused about life in general. Remember - "The Borderline" never takes responsibility for what happens in any relationship. "The Borderline" will feel better about leaving the relationship if they can blame it on you. Many individuals are forced to "play confused" and dull, allowing "The Borderline" to tell others "My girlfriend (or boyfriend) about half nuts!" They may tell others you're crazy or confused but you'll be safer. Allow them to think anything they want about you as long as you're in the process of detaching.

I don't know if I understand this correctly. Am I to pretend to be boring? Or am I to just not express my thoughts? Am I supposed to deliberately let him think I'm crazy?  I'm just me and have to be who I am. How do I detach from him while still being myself?

This is the leaving board - are you truly ready to leave the marriage or are you undecided still?  Depending up on where you are - there are different paths for achieving your objective.

Yes, I know this is the leaving board and that is why I am posting here. Yes, I am ready to leave this marriage. Maybe I need to make that my signature line?

[Danie14]

You know... . maybe I'm just trying to be nice about the whole thing... . I'm trying to end this in the safest way possible for me him and the kids. But maybe that's not the right way for me to go with this... . as nice hasn't really worked in the past anyway... . maybe blowing the whole damned thing up would work the best... . maybe that would make him leave me alone. Let me breath, find some peace... . sigh... .

[seeking balance]

You know... . maybe I'm just trying to be nice about the whole thing... . I'm trying to end this in the safest way possible for me him and the kids. But maybe that's not the right way for me to go with this... . as nice hasn't really worked in the past anyway... . maybe blowing the whole damned thing up would work the best... . maybe that would make him leave me alone. Let me breath, find some peace... . sigh... .

Ok, let's go with you are ready to leave... . so, have you talked with an attorney or 2 for practical advice on the divorce process?

I cannot stress enough that you read Splitting by Bill Eddy - it will help you avoid many of the pitfalls encountered divorcing a high conflict person.

re:  https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

Emotionally detached means keeping things neutral - stay off the pendulum.  NOT for the purpose of him leaving you as much as for keeping the living arrangement as calm as possible as you make a plan to leave and divorce.  A triggered environment leads to us being in an emotional mind rather than a wise mind.

The best quote I ever read regarding divorcing a pwBPD - get the best attorney and therapist for yourself as you can afford.  Do you have either?

[Learning_curve74]

I agree with everything seeking balance wrote. It's important to be calm and keep things stay as you work on an exit plan. And a good attorney and good therapist are worth their weight in gold.

Your thoughts and opinions are yours, however expressing them is not always needed nor in your own best interests, even though it feels like you're not being heard then. I'm sure I've had the thought "that kid is fat!" but it wouldn't have been productive or kind for me to speak my mind about it so I didn't. There may be things you want to express that your husband can't hear or accept, so in those cases it may be better to react on a different way.

[Danie14]

We are not married, we are divorced for a few of years. That was a financial thing and in fact makes things easier in that regard. However, where I live there are many, many, many people here who live together without ever getting married. Most people live that way. It’s not the marriage certificate that keeps people together. I could never afford an attorney anyway.

Where I live (I’m Native American living on tribal land within the United States) we have a bit of a different belief system than much of the mainstream society that surrounds us. Sometimes our beliefs clash with mainstream beliefs and there are times the laws are not conducive to those beliefs. We end up being square pegs in round holes. So, in my culture the woman owns the home and all the contents within. When a relationship ends the man leaves and mostly they take what is theirs (clothing, shoes, tools, etc) and the rest remains with the woman. The men move out is what I’m getting at here.

I am the head of household on the lease, even when he made more money than me I remain the head of household. Our tribal rental agency will not remove him from my lease so I cannot kick him out. The law says if he’s on the lease he’s got the right to be there, right? I’ve told him to leave, he’s agreed to leave but he never does. That means that I need to leave. I can do that and be ok but….

My brother lives with us. So when I go I essentially make him homeless. I have a 17 yo son and a 5 yo granddaughter living with us. If I go he’s not going to *let* me take them with me. I’m not going to cause that big drama in their lives…I just can’t see exposing them to that level of crazy making behavior. I have a cat, he’s my lil buddy, and I love him. If I go, what’s going to happen to him? Crazy as it sounds my husband is jealous of my cat and I think he’ll hurt that lil guy. So I’m thinking of how to leave in the safest way possible for everyone involved.

I will not hide from him. I won’t hide from anyone. Besides this is a very small place and everyone knows everyone else so there’s no point in trying to hide. His sister is the head of the domestic abuse shelter here…so I’m not going to go that route. Besides, I’ve seen my sister get beat to the ground even tho there’s a restraining order….the cops? Heck, who are they? They take at least 45 mins to get to the scene…if they make it at all.

I need to find a good counselor. I know this and am looking into it. Have been for a bit. I found someone I think might work but having made the apt yet. Last time I went to see a counselor all HELL broke loose in my house. My H went off the deep end. That's when he started his last affair... . that whole time was a straight storm.

So I really and truly feel very alone in all of this. I don’t know what to do or how to proceed…so I sit and think…keep on keeping on, living my life….

[heartandwhole]

Last time I went to see a counselor all HELL broke loose in my house. My H went off the deep end. That's when he started his last affair... . that whole time was a straight storm.

Hi Danie14,

I can understand why you are thinking carefully about how to proceed, you have a lot to consider before making a move.  Could you elaborate on the quote above, if you don't mind sharing?  What happened?

We're here for you. 

[Danie14]

It was about 10 yrs ago. I was burning out. I just finished my associate’s degree and had taking some courses towards my bachelors in a city that’s about 2 hrs away. I drove back and forth every day for a year because I couldn’t see uprooting my family to move with me for two years and them move back home. My husband would have lost all his seniority at his job and there’s no guarantee that he’d get another good job when we got back. My kids were 7 & 10 and doing well in school. That driving back and forth was hard and I ended up only doing two semesters there.

I applied for and was selected for a very high profile job here at home. I started working that job and let me tell you it wasn’t an easy job. I don’t want to say exactly what it was but had to do with HR. Anyway I was burning out from that job. I was getting so depressed. H was the typical man that he is. And that was burning me out too.

I was having problems inside of myself so went to the DR who diagnosed me with depression and gave me meds. The problems I was having were related to my relationship with my husband and how everything was. At the time I wasn’t sure if what this dr said was accurate as he didn’t do one single test on me, just told me my brain chemicals were messed up and the pills would help regulate me. So I tried to take them pills for a little while, I couldn’t stand the way they made me feel so stopped…...

I found a therapist and started talking to her. She was really good. I liked and trusted her. She’s since moved from this area and so I cannot go back to her. I didn’t tell my husband about this because of his past issues with his xW and his very negative experience with counseling and marriage counseling.  I also didn’t tell him or anyone because I felt so weak. Truly weak and I truly hate that feeling. I didn’t want to be viewed and damaged, weak, or crazy……and…... way deep down I didn’t want my husband to know so that if we broke up he couldn’t use that against me. Like say I was an unfit mother because I was crazy or something. I know much better now.

Well, he found out and was supportive at first. We had been getting ready to go to his brother’s house to have some drinks with them. This was back when I was a drinker. So we went and there’s this very young girl there…she babysat for them….anyway that night my husband decides to tell me “I f’ed her last week and I’ll F her again” to which she denied….and that’s when the hell began. I went home, he didn’t come home until the next day and jumped in the shower as soon as he got home. He said he was lying and he didn’t sleep with her, that he was just angry. And drunk.

We sat in this house for the next two weeks not talking. The tension was horrible. He was coming and going as he pleased. I went to talk to her to ‘woman up’ with her. But she’s just a girl and had no idea what she was doing. She lied and denied. And I found out that he was going to her house every day after that….so one Sunday morning I pulled the suit cased out and told him to choose. He left. I didn’t want him to leave but that’s what happened.

The next 2 months he was non-existent in my life, in the kids’ lives. He was just gone. BUT he would call me every night, in the wee hours of the morning but wouldn’t talk to me…he’s just be on the phone….He would come to the house at all hours of the night and just lay in bed with me, fully clothed, he’s just come and lay there not talking. He didn’t come to actual talk to me until his mom told him to…

In the mean time he’s openly dating this girl. She’s starting to call my phone and leave me awful messages. I’m not going to be dragged into that drama so sit still and try to not break….oh, how awfully angry I was and how awfully horrible my thoughts of hurting him and her were…I’m really not proud of those thoughts at all. He and I had screaming matches on the phone, in the front year, at my sister’s house, at his brother’s house….why? Lots of reasons. I hated every minute of it.

One particularly nasty argument was because I wasn’t home when he wanted to drop the kids off. He was PISSED very very angry. I got home and found my sun glasses smashed in the kitchen (where I couldn’t miss them) and a note on my bed with a pen stabbed thru it into the mattress…the note was very mean and hate filled…still trying to control my time. That evening when he came to pick up the kids (they got off the school bus at my house) he parked way across the street. My son was in the car with him so I went to see my boy…my husband forbid my son to get out of the car to hug me….so I leaned in and hugged him….then my husband proceeded to berate me for not being home…well, I went off on him. I told him that he’s the one who said he didn’t love me, that we were going to get divorced and that he was never coming home so why should it matter to him what I did with my time? That it was no longer any of his business what I did with my time.

I drew up a separation and visitation agreement and gave it to him to read make comments etc. I filed for divorce and had him served. I separated all of his stuff from all of my stuff at the house and told him to come get it. He wouldn’t pick up his stuff, he missed and/or canceled all the divorce dates until the judge threw it out, he did follow the visitation agreement. He even asked me if he could bring the kids around her (no, of course not). I didn’t want our relationship to end then so held on for all I was worth.

I finally decided that I wanted to be happy and so started working towards that goal. I spoke to my spiritual advisors, therapist, friends, family…and I started to get a life again. It was about 8 mos into the separation. I started using my time off (his weeks) for the things I wanted to do. He started coming round more. If I wasn’t home he’d come find me, wherever I was….I had a big doings at the house and he wasn’t invited…he came anyway.

One morning he said he woke up and thought to himself “What the hell am I doing?” and that’s when he wanted to come home. He left me a 5 page letter and asked if we had a chance, asked if he could come back…I didn’t exactly jump at the chance but it didn’t take me long to agree (within a day) and he started moving back home. Slowly, bringing his stuff home. I didn’t realize how much he had taken without my knowledge over the year.

The girl started blowing up his phone. She was unstable, She did property damage at our house. Of course we couldn’t prove it was her, but it was highly probable. She ended up going to prison on an unrelated charge. She was out of my life for a good long while. Now, I have no ill will for her. I wish her the best. Being a very small community I know she has a new love, new babies and seems to be doing well. And I really am happy for her. When we see her in the community my husband still blanches and runs the other way…why? Idk. Guilt, shame, fear?

So we worked on rec. he refused to got to IC or MC. He said that he had a very bad experience with his xW in MC. That she was crazy…he’s told me some stories…and I actually believe him because I think most people move on after 22 yrs? She still calls him, still tries to friend him on fb and other social media, she’s called me at my work and has tried to friend me on fb. I have never met her and will probably never met her. They have no ties, no kids or anything that might be a binding tie.

But he refused to go to MC. He said he was sorry, he said he loved me, he tried to not be so mean, he tried to do the things I like….his idea of commitment to working on the relationship was to sign a two year cable contract…seriously, when I’d get insecure and want reassurance this is what he’d give me. Looking back I can clearly see so many places where I shouldn’t have accepted but should have insisted. But that’s all over now. It’s done and I’m done.

Inside myself I know this is the right thing for me. I’m beginning to believe that this is the best thing for him and our kids too. But if I just think of me, yes, it’s long-long overdue. I love him but I need to love myself better.

Yea, the whole things crazy.