Any feedback on this boundary / ultimatum would be welcome - thanks

[bpbreakout]

Dear All, would appreciate any feedback on this which has resulted from the latest in a series of altercations between BPDw and D15. Hopefully it's reasonably self explanatory. Not sure if I'm going to send it but it pretty accurately sums up where I'm at.

Thanks & see below


Thank you for this email and your demand that I either believe either your version of events of that of my daughter.

You have asked me to make a choice and I am clear on where I’m at with this.

For the record **** was quite open with me about spitting the milkshake at you & she now understands that the broken glass on the table that set this incident off was a stupid accident and not a deliberate act by you. It sounds as if it resulted from an impulsive action on one or both of your parts trying to grab the phone and things were obviously already heated. I’m not sure that it matters. Whatever the case I don’t think anything of real importance was fabricated by her though she was extremely distraught and angry when I spoke to her.

I’m actually quite astounded you could write this stuff about her fabricating things and at the same time leave out the bit where you physically attacked her. You must think I am a fool.

As you know from your emails, I have set up a number of regular appointments for **** with [child psych] over the next few months. Hopefully it will give her a chance to work on her anger management & stress issues and also better come to terms with her relationship with you. I wish to clarify the possible ADHD issue once and for all as does ***. This was raised with you several months ago and has been raised again. As there seems to be no indication that you are going to contact[psych] to discuss this, I’m letting you know I will be going ahead anyway as it’s the least I owe ***.

You are clearly very unhappy. Luckily for you have the support of some very good friends and a couple of very good psychiatrists, I would make the most of them and start following their advice with regard to your anger and control issues which are destroying your relationships with everyone in our family. I would be a bit more open with other people about your failings rather than trying to paint everyone around you black. Of course you are an adult and it is entirely up to you what you do about this and unlike our daughter I have no responsibility for you in this department you can make your own choices.

I’m open to continuing our marriage if you have some way forward which involves you finally owning your issues and learning to see some good in the people around you. Sadly though I have got to the point where I am ashamed of being on the same so called parenting team as you and the door will not be open forever. If there is no serious response from you over the next few weeks on how you wish to go forward with your issues I will assume you intend doing nothing.

If you do not wish to help yourself, I suggest you make good your threat below to leave right now & we can go and see a mediator and start working out a joint parenting plan and commence the separation process.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[123Phoebe]

Hi BPDbreakout

Feels good getting all that out, doesn't it?  I wouldn't send it though or say it to her in this manner; keep it to the boards here or to your own therapist in private.  Calling people out, BPD or not, doesn't usually result in the outcome we're desiring.

What is that you are desiring?  Her owning her issues and learning to see some good in the people around her?  It isn't going to happen by telling her this is what she needs to do, at least it didn't for me when I tried it  

Live your values, BPDbreakout, while communicating that they are yours, not supposed to be hers.

I sincerely hope things improve  

[bpbreakout]

Appreciate your response 123Pheobe, I see what you are saying, it all make sense.

With this particular issue, my values are about bringing up my children as decent human beings which means I have to do whatever I can to help them with a difficult family situation. I want them to feel loved and respected and I want them to treat others as they would want to be treated. My values include co-operation but they don't include a requirement for "obedience" as I want them to grow up thinking for themselves. I believe I have responsibilities about steering them in the right direction which includes help from a therapist as D15 is quite caught up in BPDw's way of thinking at the moment. I am quietly going about this as best I can.

I'm struggling because BPDw at some level wants ongong conflict as the status quo and has a lot of emotional investment in having "difficult" children and an "un-supportive" partner which I guess means she can project onto us and blame us for her destructive outbursts. I do not want to be caught up in this so looking to clarify values and communicate boundaries as you say.

BPDw was diagnosed about six months ago following several years of bipolar 2 treatment. The BP2 diagnosis I think led me and other to excuse her behaviour as something she couldn't help.

If BPDw continues on current trajectory I'm not sure how I can bring up my children in the way that I want to and have a satisfactory relationship with them so I am considering seperation. It's something I need to decide for myself rather than make ultimatums about the way BPDw behaves.

[an0ught]

Hi bpbreakout,

it is infinitely frustrating  . You know better, you know what is happening is against your values. But the nature of the beast you are dealing with is that telling her how to behave is mostly pointless. In a specific situation you may have to act when you are able to protect your boundaries but later is won't work. I fully understand that all in you screams - how do I prevent this? And if there is an answer it can't be in asking her to change because she is not able to affect her behavior much in that situation. That does not mean she is not accountable for it but you as a partner are not in a position to hold her to it much. Looks like she has also learned about boundaries and is trying to use them to control you.

Neither side is using boundaries to control themselves  .

This is a confusing phase in your relationship and the rules are currently in flux. Don't focus on her. Focus on yourself!

[bpbreakout]

Hi an0ught

Thanks for your reponse. Would appreciate if you could clarify a couple of comments you made, I'm wondering what you can see that I may not be able to. Also FYI I  never sent the email to BPDw but I have gone ahead and arranged things for D15 with the therapist and discussed it with BPDw.

Looks like she has also learned about boundaries and is trying to use them to control you

Just interested in what why you think this

Neither side is using boundaries to control themselves

Interested to know whether this means me and BPDw or D15 and BPDw.

Thanks in advance   

[an0ught]

Hi bpbreakout,

Looks like she has also learned about boundaries and is trying to use them to control you

Just interested in what why you think this

You are clearly very unhappy. Luckily for you have the support of some very good friends and a couple of very good psychiatrists, I would make the most of them and start following their advice with regard to your anger and control issues which are destroying your relationships with everyone in our family. I would be a bit more open with other people about your failings rather than trying to paint everyone around you black. Of course you are an adult and it is entirely up to you what you do about this and unlike our daughter I have no responsibility for you in this department you can make your own choices.

"I take not the responsibility for your happiness" is a boundary inspired message. There was another post of you where you describe her closing her ears with her hands and is leaving the discussion - the point here is she is controlling herself vs. the alternative trying to shut you up with escalating force.

It looks like she knows some aspects. Not all is healthy - she is mixing controlling messages in between - everyone is responsible for their own issues (good) but I tell you that you got to fix your by this time or else (not so good). I guess the really hard part about boundaries is to stay on your own side.

Neither side is using boundaries to control themselves

Interested to know whether this means me and BPDw or D15 and BPDw.

It looks like your wife feels pushed to justify herself:

Thank you for this email and your demand that I either believe either your version of events of that of my daughter.

You have asked me to make a choice and I am clear on where I’m at with this.

the alternative is

Live your values, BPDbreakout, while communicating that they are yours, not supposed to be hers.

has a lot of emotional investment in having "difficult" children and an "un-supportive" partner

Knowing that to validate it should be easy. It is her right to consider you un-supportive and her D difficult. There are plenty of mothers who struggle with their teen D's. No need to do much about it 

Telling your wife that she perceives that D is acting extreme is validating and can be ok. It is your right to have a different opinion too - often no need to express it and seldom a need to come to a common understanding. Consistent parenting is important but with D being 15 years old and your current situation that will have to take often a backseat when it comes to expressing something. Now when it comes to acting e.g. grounding D15's activities it is a different matter - that needs solid justification and agreement - D15 needs respect and her rights can't be trampled on.

[bpbreakout]

Thanks an0ught. All good feedback and it's been really good working through this situation. FYI I did ground D15 for a few days for what she did with the milkshake which didn't really have a huge impact on her life. I did explain to her that I had to do give her a consequence as what she did with the milkshake highly disrespectful was her choice and her responsibility. I also told her that her that I thought BPDw's violent reaction was right out of order and also that BPDw's reaction (whilst understandable) was BPDw's responsibility not D15's. D15 accepted the grounding but is still angry because BPDw did not get a "consequence" like D15 did. BPDw sees her actions as justified and holds D15 responsible for it which makes this difficult to resolve as BPDw is not in the frame of mind to be acknowledging that what she did was or let alone apologising for it. I totally empathise with D15 on this and my inability to do anyhting about BPDw's behaviour leaves me feeling pretty frustrated and useless as a father.

[formflier]

I think you are at the point to have one of those "this is just life... . and life sometimes isn't fair" conversations with D15. 

The explanation:  I am your father... . not the father of BPDw... . therefore... . I can't impose a consequence  on her... . but I can on you.  In fact... . if I didn't impose one on you I wouldn't be doing my "job".  You get the point.

Then... . hopefully... . can go to next conversation of what to do when life is unfair.  Because it certainly isn't fair in this situation and it won't be in many future ones.

Hang in there...

Oh... . I have wanted to send many similar emails... . some I have sent and some of haven't.  While I don't think my emails  that I have sent have created any nuclear situations... . they certainly didn't help.  I have limited energy and time... . so I'm trying to focus on stopping the bleeding (that's still where I am at)

Thanks an0ught. All good feedback and it's been really good working through this situation. FYI I did ground D15 for a few days for what she did with the milkshake which didn't really have a huge impact on her life. I did explain to her that I had to do give her a consequence as what she did with the milkshake highly disrespectful was her choice and her responsibility. I also told her that her that I thought BPDw's violent reaction was right out of order and also that BPDw's reaction (whilst understandable) was BPDw's responsibility not D15's. D15 accepted the grounding but is still angry because BPDw did not get a "consequence" like D15 did. BPDw sees her actions as justified and holds D15 responsible for it which makes this difficult to resolve as BPDw is not in the frame of mind to be acknowledging that what she did was or let alone apologising for it. I totally empathise with D15 on this and my inability to do anyhting about BPDw's behaviour leaves me feeling pretty frustrated and useless as a father.

[bpbreakout]

Yep agree, time to move on