Supporting others around having a BPD family member

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Both my mother and now sister-in-law have BPD. Over the past 20 years, I have managed to negotiate a rather successful (i.e. long-distance) relationship with my mother. Additionally, she has been in treatment for nearly 20 years. While she does engage in behaviors (BPD, not typical mom stuff) that are distressing, she has come a long way. I commend her on the hard work she had done and her progress (and our relationship now) makes me hopeful. However, I feel that just as I am coming out from under the dark cloud that was my mother's BPD, I am walking under the cloud that is my sister in law's BPD.

My husband and I have been together for 10 years, but his sister's diagnosis is new. However, the signs (for me) have been there for years. I have made it clear that I want distance from her and have used similar strategies for engaging with her as I have done with my mother. What bothers me is the way she is currently wreaking havoc on my husband and his parents. She is constantly engaging in behaviors that are harmful to the mental health and well-being of my husband and his family. On our wedding, security had to be called, on our anniversary she sent a nasty text, when we bought a house, she posted negative comments on social media. She has told me husband (an exceptionally tolerant and caring man who has gone out of his way to comfort and support her) that he is responsible for her suicide attempts/mental distress. She twists the words of therapists to blame the family for her condition and tells her family that the clinicians have deemed them "toxic relationships" or triggers.

What is most bothersome for me is that I already lived this. I know the games, I know the script. My goal now is not related to my sister in law, but to my husband and his family. How can I support  them? My husband feels sometimes my interpretations are a sign of me being "jaded" rather than experiences. For instance, when I tried to prepare him for the drama that would ensue on our wedding day, he told me I was being unfair. I want to "save" them the heartache I felt with my mother, and help them get to a place where her behaviors are less harmful for them. What would people suggest?

[doubletheBPD]

Both my mother and now sister-in-law have BPD. Over the past 20 years, I have managed to negotiate a rather successful (i.e. long-distance) relationship with my mother. Additionally, she has been in treatment for nearly 20 years. While she does engage in behaviors (BPD, not typical mom stuff) that are distressing, she has come a long way. I commend her on the hard work she had done and her progress (and our relationship now) makes me hopeful. However, I feel that just as I am coming out from under the dark cloud that was my mother's BPD, I am walking under the cloud that is my sister in law's BPD.

My husband and I have been together for 10 years, but his sister's diagnosis is new. However, the signs (for me) have been there for years. I have made it clear that I want distance from her and have used similar strategies for engaging with her as I have done with my mother. What bothers me is the way she is currently wreaking havoc on my husband and his parents. She is constantly engaging in behaviors that are harmful to the mental health and well-being of my husband and his family. On our wedding, security had to be called, on our anniversary she sent a nasty text, when we bought a house, she posted negative comments on social media. She has told me husband (an exceptionally tolerant and caring man who has gone out of his way to comfort and support her) that he is responsible for her suicide attempts/mental distress. She twists the words of therapists to blame the family for her condition and tells her family that the clinicians have deemed them "toxic relationships" or triggers.

What is most bothersome for me is that I already lived this. I know the games, I know the script. My goal now is not related to my sister in law, but to my husband and his family. How can I support  them? My husband feels sometimes my interpretations are a sign of me being "jaded" rather than experiences. For instance, when I tried to prepare him for the drama that would ensue on our wedding day, he told me I was being unfair. I want to "save" them the heartache I felt with my mother, and help them get to a place where her behaviors are less harmful for them. What would people suggest?

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, doubletheBPD & 

I'm really very sorry for the troubles you have had to endure with your Mom, and now with your Sister-In-Law. I do think it is wonderful that your Mom has been in Therapy for the BPD and that your relationship with her is pretty good--Kudos for being able to navigate that!

It makes sense that you can use the tools and techniques that have helped with your Mom, in trying to navigate the relationship with your S-I-L. Of course, since she is not aware or accepting of her own behavioral issues, it will be harder (since your Mom is aware and wanting to change). I, also, have had to deal with two High-Functioning BPD loved ones: my M-I-L (who I've known for more than 42 years; my Husband and I have been married for almost 40) and now my D-I-L (who I've known for more than 10 years).

I felt exactly like you! Once my son married my D-I-L and things escalated with he behaviors towards me, I was pretty resentful that I'd had to endure my M-I-L's rages, silent treatment and No Contact for so many years (and, to be honest, knowing her age I was thinking I'd be free of it sooner or later)--only to then have a repeat performance, now, from my young and healthy D-I-L who will undoubtedly outlive me, meaning it will never end! 

I did learn, though, how to deal with both of them once I found this site a year ago while researching BPD due to my other son's Low Functioning BPD diagnosis at that time. While learning how to understand and deal with his LF BPD, I stumbled upon the High Functioning BPD information (both the M-I-L & D-I-L would probably be diagnosed with that if they ever thought their problems weren't from everyone else, and decided to get Therapy). Here is the information that has helped me understand and communicate with them better:

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Radical Acceptance for family members

Also, to the right-hand side of this page you will find many other useful links: Coping when a Family Member has BPD and the Lessons are helpful to understanding what you are dealing with, and how to make things better.The one Workshop that helped me the most with my D-I-L is: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life?

You are probably familiar with these tools, since you've been learning how to deal with your Mom, but if you have the time to check these links out it could be worthwhile for information that might be new to you. Also, if you refresh your knowledge you can use it to help your Husband and his family like you would like to do. I know that the better I understand BPD, and the more proficient I am using the tools and techniques linked to above, the more I can help my Husband deal with his Mom and our D-I-L. I know that my Husband does feel heartache from time to time (due to the way my son who is married to my D-I-L sometimes acts towards him/us because of his wife's perceptions of us), and I need to regularly help him with Radical Acceptance, and with understanding that she can't help herself most times--it's just the way her brain works. And it does help him... .

[Louise7777]

Hi doubletheBPD!

Im sorry for what you are going through. I suggest you read the links provided and the board, you will see many others going through the same.

Having uBPD/NPD/HPD relatives I know how draining it can be.

It caught my attention your line "She has told me husband (an exceptionally tolerant and caring man who has gone out of his way to comfort and support her) that he is responsible for her suicide attempts/mental distress."

To me that explains it all. He needs boundaries. As long as he goes out of his way to please her, she will only escalate. People need to get consequences for their actions. I believe he is in the fog still, you are clearly ahead of him. And probably you know more than I do on how to cope, so I will only say to keep your boundaries. Wish you luck.

[whippoorwill]

I totally agree with Louise7777. I, too, noticed that you said he is extremely tolerant and has gone out of his way to comfort and support her. To me, it seems that being tolerant and "supportive" actually just serves to support the BPD behavior. It really depends on what you call "supportive". I am new to this all, but it seems that the typical way of being supportive actually backfires with pwBPD. So, the normal type of support we give to "normal" people serves as a reward for the bad BPD behavior. The fact that your DH says that you are jaded or being unfair when you clearly recognize the pattern of BPD behavior, and can predict what is about to happen, shows that your DH isn't seeing the reality.

I FEEL FOR YOU! This is exactly what I'm going through, only I'm dealing with DH, his uBPD mother, and her obsessiveness with our young child. My DH'S behavior is upsetting me because he is "supporting" his mom, which is actually giving our child to her (what she wants) as a reward for her emotional blackmailing. So his behavior is reinforcing her emotional blackmailing of him, making things worse for himself (and the rest of us). My poor DH has so much anxiety and I've only recently discovered the truth behind it.

It is so frustrating because now I see my DH's behavior in reinforcing her behavior. And I'm at the point of feeling angry that he is refusing to see it, too. Because, not only is it affecting him, but it's also affecting our child and our marriage. I want to help him see his part, but I am beside myself on how to do that without making it seem like I'm also threatening or using his emotions to manipulate. I've laid the evidence out in front of him, and he still continues to be blinded.

[Louise7777]

whippoorwill, you make good points. I just want to add that "supporting" regarding a BPD is actually "enabling". At least thats how I see it since I came out of the fog.

You are right, whippoorwill, when related to a "normal" person it would be called support, when if its to a BPD, its just rewarding bad behaviour.

Sometimes I get exhausted of dealing with them (Im NC/ VLC with uPD relatives) but sometimes another one pops up in other scenarios.

Although I believe we are primates, I like Cesar Millan approach on dogs: "dont reward bad behaviour". Actually he trains the owners and not only the dogs... .

What I have seen my whole life is uPDs getting away with their bad behaviour cause its easier to sacrifice others than confront an uPD. So, in may way of seeing things, the lambs are slaughtered while the wolf keeps on going... . That is totally unfair. No wonder I was painted black by my uPD relatives, they want total submission.

I always advise to detach from them, its the only thing that worked for me.

[P.F.Change]

I want to "save" them the heartache I felt with my mother, and help them get to a place where her behaviors are less harmful for them. What would people suggest?

This is a great question--I think a lot of people whose in-laws have BPD feel the same way. I understand you care about your husband and his family and have experience and knowledge to offer them. It sounds like they are still experiencing a level of denial, and that your husband in particular isn't ready to accept your perspective.

What helped you the most in learning how to accept and cope with your mother's behavior? You sound like you have a pretty healthy attitude toward your relationship with her, so I am guessing you probably had some professional support along the way. Maybe your husband would benefit from talking to a therapist. It sounds like he sees your advice as potentially biased due to your experience with your mother; a counselor's recommendations may seem more neutral and carry more weight. Has he ever considered talking with a professional before?

Maybe there will be a time when your DH is ready to hear your advice. In the meantime, it might be better to maintain your own personal boundaries while waiting for him to ask for your opinion about what may be going on with his family. I have had to do a lot of work to overcome co-dependent "rescuer" tendencies, and one of the most valuable lessons I learned was not to help people who haven't asked for my help. I'm not sure, but it might help you, too.

I understand you are asking how to support your husband and his parents rather than his sister with BPD. But I would like to go ahead and comment on these thoughts:

To me, it seems that being tolerant and "supportive" actually just serves to support the BPD behavior. It really depends on what you call "supportive".

I just want to add that "supporting" regarding a BPD is actually "enabling". At least thats how I see it since I came out of the fog.

There is a difference between support and enabling. It is not wrong to offer genuine support, even to someone with BPD, though it is also important to learn the difference between that and enabling unhealthy behavior. This workshop has some valuable information: Are you supporting or enabling?

Hope this helps, doubletheBPD. I am glad you decided to join and post, and hope we will hear more from you soon. 

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Louise7777]

Thank you, P.F.! I hadnt read that thread before, its very insightful.

[doubletheBPD]

Thank you everyone for the helpful suggestions. I may just have my husband read this thread! What I didn't mention is that I am actually on the way to getting my PhD in social work with a focus on working with families experiencing mental illness. So sometimes I get the, "you're not my therapist" comment. Maybe hearing it from so many articulate people with such diverse background will be helpful. I don't think he's out of the fog (yet), but I think at least he has begun to accept that he is in it. His parents are a completely different story (I'm sure it is very difficult to have a child with BPD).

On a side note, it is makes me feel so hopeful to know that I am not the only one out there. Sometimes having a family member with MI can be so isolating. In my experiencing, the MI impacts every aspect of my life, but I am not allowed to say anything or do anything because it's not my problem. I'm hopeful that as more family members speak out and come together, that there can be a change to recognize MI as a disorder that impacts families, not individuals.

[P.F.Change]

So sometimes I get the, "you're not my therapist" comment.

This is a valid assertion. You will probably have been trained on the many reasons why doctors and therapists don't treat their own family members, so I imagine you understand that comment. If your husband is willing, talking to a therapist of his own might be helpful to both of you so that your personal relationship can be more balanced.

Maybe hearing it from so many articulate people with such diverse background will be helpful.

This can be true, if he is asking for help and wants to hear from others. It may not be as helpful if you are deciding for him what he needs. Does that make sense? He would be welcome to read here anytime he likes.

You are right that you are not alone. I'm glad you've joined us--it really does help to know there are others who have been through the same thing.

[whippoorwill]

What P.F. Change is saying is the hardest part for me. Much more difficult than dealing with the lies, manipulation, and meanness that comes from my BPD MIL is the fact that I can only do and say so much with/to my husband about his mother or about how his behavior impacts himself and our family. I felt like I was getting nowhere when I tried to talk to him at first. We even had an "intervention" with his brother and SIL about his mom's behavior (right after it became completely clear to the rest of us that her condition is serious). It seemed that he would sort of accept that there was a real problem, but that he would then pretend that nothing was wrong.

The most helpful thing was to get him to go to therapy with me. Only then did it seem that he listened to me and that he listened to the therapist. I tried only to talk about BPD MILs behavior (and also his behavior/what he said, in a non-threatening way), not about what I "thought" was going on. I tried to stick with the facts as I saw them and also to talk about my concerns with those behaviors/statements (the part about my concerns was more about what I thought, but I only talked about major concerns in that way). I tried to present the "evidence" and then let the therapist say what was actually going on. This helped to give the therapist the "authority" so that I didn't come off sounding like a jaded know-it-all. The fact is that I did a lot of research, and that I don't have a long-term enmeshed relationship with the BPD, so I was able to be much more objective. And I was very sure at what I was looking at, while DH was mostly in denial (which I also understood, given all the information I had read). So DH was much more able to hear and accept the "experts" opinion, versus mine, or even versus mine plus his own brother and sister-in-law.

I might add that I did my homework when finding a therapist. I chose someone who had 17 years of experience, and I chose a woman because I asked DH if he would be more comfortable talking with a male or female.

[whippoorwill]

I forgot to mention that I set the first therapy session up under the guise that DH and I have communication problems and that we needed guidance in dealing with our family situation. I think I made it difficult for him to say that either of those things was not true. I really was at the point where I didn't think I could stay in this marriage (and family) much longer if we didn't get help, and I was honest about that fact, but I tried not to make it sound like a threat. The truth is that all I can control is myself. But if DH, whom I deal with daily and whom is supposed to be one of the closest persons to me, can't even listen to me or consider what I'm saying to him, then there is a problem that I can't overlook forever. So I thought about it from that perspective-- that the core of our problems has to do with US, not with BPD MIL. So that is how we proceeded with therapy, and I think it has done wonders for our relationship, even when we have only had 2 therapy sessions together (tonight will be the third).

[G.J.]

Hi DoubletheBPD,

I can sympathize with your situation.  My mom is uBPD and my sister is dBPD.  The dynamic between you and your husband, reminds me a lot of the dynamic between me and my father regarding my sister.  While my dad will sometimes openly admit my sister has a problem, he mostly likes to give her the benefit of the doubt, believe her lies, and expect the best of her (even though he has no evidence that he should).

It sounds to me like your husband is in the same situation my dad was in for many years... .   Still holding on to the fantasy of who he thought she was.  Having been in denial for so long, it's hard to adjust to the new reality overnight.  Having weak boundaries himself, he probably has very few tools to respond to her differently than he has been.  Doesn't know the difference between enabling and supporting.  Wrapped up in Fear, Obligation and Guilt.  Feeling a bit defensive and instinctively protective of a family member (even if she doesn't deserve it)... .

And then there's me, trying to cram "reality" down my dad's throat, to help protect him, protect me, protect the rest of the family, and get my dad to stop enabling my sister and maybe even get him to get her some help... .   But all that did was cause even more chaos, in the form of arguments between me and my dad, him feeling controlled and managed, him irrationally defending his mentally ill daughter, and me feeling ignored and on very insecure footing.  One crisis on my sister's part would send our entire family into an out-of-control downward spiral, almost overnight.

After years and years of this dance, I finally realized that it wasn't working.  The harder I worked to "fix" my family, the worse things got.  Once I let go of the fantasy that I could change my father or even change my sister -- and realized that the only person I could change was ME -- that's when everything started to get better.

What has worked for me so far:

1. I stopped trying to manage my dad's relationship with my sister.  I no longer attempt to get him to see things the way I see them, or respond to her in the way I would if I were him.  That's not my right, responsibility or place.  I do defend my own perspectives and actions when asked -- but I don't insist that he see it my way -- only that he respect my perspectives and choices as my own.  While the consequences of how my dad handles my sister often affect me, that's where *I* have to set MY boundaries with her and/or him and take care of myself.  If my dad's response to my sister negatively affects his relationship with me, then it's HIS responsibility to do something about that.  Not mine.  If my dad is enabling my sister and it harms her (this is the toughest one for me) it's not my job to try to force him to stop.  That is their relationship to work out -- not mine.  All I can do is not enable her myself, or allow my dad to collude me in his enabling of her.  If my dad's response or perspective on my sister negatively affects him, as much as it kills me to watch, it's HIS responsibility to adjust his perspective and/or behavior.  It's not my place to do that for him.  Just as I shouldn't be enabling the BPD, I also shouldn't enable the BPD's loved ones by trying to save them from themselves or from the BPD.  Everyone in the family has to "learn a new dance" and learn to have boundaries for themselves.  Me trying to do that for them, only prevents them from learning valuable life lessons and interpersonal skills that they're also apparently lacking.

2.  I lead by example and set boundaries for ME.  I set them with both my sister and my father, as necessary.  Sometimes I have to tell my dad that my sister is an "off limits topic" or there are certain things I don't want to know about.  I have gone so far as to block my sister's phone number when I feel too overloaded by her drama and/or find her communication with me abusive.  As my family sees my behavior changing, and they see me with more peace and serenity amongst the chaos -- while they balked at it initially because I was "stepping out of my position in the original dysfunctional dance" -- they now are starting to look to me to see what I'M doing and how they can begin to start setting boundaries for themselves.  While I cannot control my sister, my father or anyone else -- I CAN control myself.  And as I change, everyone around me is forced to change as well.  Additionally, it has greatly improved my relationship with both my father and my step-mother as we are no longer arguing about my sister and what should be done about her "latest crisis."

3.  Instead of telling my family members what I believe they should think and what they should do, I now don't offer my opinion or advice unsolicited.  If they ASK me, I try to phrase it within the guidelines of "Sharing my experience, strength and hope" [taken from Al-Anon].  i.e. "I was once in a situation like this, and this is how I handled it, and it worked out well because... . "  And then I just leave it at that.  People respond a LOT better to "advice" expressed indirectly, than they do to being told that what they're doing is wrong and that I know better.  They also respond to it better when they ASK for the advice, as opposed to when they're hijacked with my opinions.

This stuff takes a lot of practice, but if you keep working at it, it really does help. 

[Cassy]

You're not jaded, you're knowledgeable and experienced in this particular area. Unfortunately, people can't even imagine the level of manipulation and drama that comes with BPD, so they often have to learn the hard way, no matter how much we want to spare them the pain.

If you push it too much, you become the bad guy. Over the years I've tried to warn people about my mother, but it only backfired and they judged me, well, until they had to call the police or change their phone number. Sometimes it takes a few years, but eventually people will understand your concerns.