Spoke with an expert on mental illness today

[LuckyNicki]

She used to have a private practice and dealt with a lot of BPDs.

First, she said she was really sorry for my encounter with one and then asked " are you away from this relationship"?  I said yes.  She said "good, now just run as far away as you possibly can.  There's nothing you can do and it'll take years of them being committed to get better"

She told me to slowly distance if this girl is a friend and eventually just remove myself.  They just prey on anyone (which I read about m online)

She told me that from a BPDs' perspective,  it is not their problem.  Its YOUR problem as in its only a problem to all that are close to them.   She said, they dont care.


I was a bit shocked as a lot of these comments are negative.    Have any of you who spoke to professionals receive similar kinds of negative response and advice ?

[Tolou]

Hi Nikki,

I work with a lot of mental health professionals, and I get 50/50 depending on who I am speaking with.  Luckily, I didnt ignore the redflags withmy ex for too long, I started following my gut, and when I realized there was something wrong, I tried to walk away and all HELL broke loose.  But in speaking with some professionals, they told me, my walking away or trying to, triggered the abandonment, which is what they fear.  They told me I was lucky to get out early, before marriage, or children etc... . another person, a psychiatrist told me the same thing, he said run the other way, dont walk, when I told him of some of her behaviors, he said leave it alone, get away from her if you can and cut contact completely.  I know a social worker who specialized in CBT-BPD-DBT and especially break-ups, believe it or not, he said BPD's ruminate a lot of over there exes, espeically when suicide attemtps were involved, they take a while to stabalize and return to baseline.  He told me that he thinks BPD is life a long battle for most, especially if they are not working with any kind of treatment team and trying to better themselves.  It gets hard when comorbidity is involved or other issues like substance abuse etc... .

But I have heard some people speak about them in a positive light.  I know one who told he doesn't informt them of their diagnosis unless he feels it will help the person, he usually diagnoses them with general anxiety or major dperessive disorder for billing so that they are not stigmatized or descriminated against.  He actually was very compassionate and sincere.  So it all depends on who you come across.

[lemon flower]

But I have heard some people speak about them in a positive light.  I know one who told he doesn't informt them of their diagnosis unless he feels it will help the person, he usually diagnoses them with general anxiety or major dperessive disorder for billing so that they are not stigmatized or descriminated against.  He actually was very compassionate and sincere.  So it all depends on who you come across.

glad to hear that!

a good therapist should be very thoughtful on how he talks to people and what he advises them... . I'm getting so fed up of all those people who talk about BPD's as if they were the devil in disguise... .

let us please not forget that they are people, with feelings and emotions, which they can't handle too well (unfortunately), but who need help and understanding!

advising the people who surround the BPD to be careful and protect themselves for being damaged is wise, advising them to run away "as fast as you can" is stupid and heartless

what about their family and friends who can not just "run away", what about a little bit of solidarity ?

let's start first to educate relatives on the problem, warn them without decouraging, and learn appropriate coping skills... .

saying this, I don't mean that YOU have to stay around him, being his "ex", for you NC is probably the best way to get over the r/s !

[HappyNihilist]

Disregarding for a moment that therapists, like every other profession, have their good and their not-so-good -- I'm sure that a lot of the perspective depends on whether the pwBPD is in therapy voluntarily or by coercion of some sort. (As I'm sure is the case for most therapy, period.)

Personality disorders are not easy to deal with. And they're not easy to treat, either, even if the person is committed to it. I would imagine that therapists who specialize in them get quite drained and most likely suffer occasional compassion fatigue. And people who have very high empathy are more susceptible to this. (pwPD are not the only ones good at mirroring.) So it would follow that the best therapists for people with difficult personality disorders are also the ones who will potentially be the most affected by treating them.

Basically, then, you have adequate or good therapists who don't truly understand (or want to understand) the disorders... . and wonderful empathetic therapists who take on their patients' vicarious trauma and are susceptible to becoming a bit, shall we say, jaded. Thankfully there are those who can maintain their own sense of self while still providing empathy and effective therapy. However, I would imagine it might take some trial and error to find one, and how patient do you think someone with a PD is going to be about riding the therapist merry-go-round? (Not to mention that financial constraints are a very real possibility.)

I guess what I'm trying to say, in a very long-winded sort of way, is that this, like so much else in life, is a complex issue with no simple answer.

That being said, I don't think it's necessarily "negative" advice to tell someone just out of a failed r/s with a pwBPD not to return to that r/s. And she's absolutely right that there's nothing you can do, and that it will take them a lot of time and commitment to get better. Those are just simple truths.

[BorisAcusio]

You got a pretty solid advice. Untreated pwBPD will wreck your life if you stay long enough. Every effort you make is feeding a bottomless pit. 

[Waifed]

She used to have a private practice and dealt with a lot of BPDs.

First, she said she was really sorry for my encounter with one and then asked " are you away from this relationship"?  I said yes.  She said "good, now just run as far away as you possibly can.  There's nothing you can do and it'll take years of them being committed to get better"

She told me to slowly distance if this girl is a friend and eventually just remove myself.  They just prey on anyone (which I read about m online)

She told me that from a BPDs' perspective,  it is not their problem.  Its YOUR problem as in its only a problem to all that are close to them.   She said, they dont care.


I was a bit shocked as a lot of these comments are negative.    Have any of you who spoke to professionals receive similar kinds of negative response and advice ?

Yes... . same response. He told me to RUN and that I didn't have enough money to pay a therapist to get her better.

[LA4610]

I have been seeing my therapist for 5 years now. I have had some serious trauma in my life and have worked very hard at resolving my anxiety, depression, etc. Prior to my BPD relationship, my therapist and I had a good relationship, but it was strictly professional. When I went to her with the info about my exBPD she gave me her PERSONAL telephone number and told me to call her whenever I wanted to. I was shocked. It was so out of character for her. Also, my psychiatrist has constantly been checking up on me since he found out. This also is completely out of character for him.

I still can't believe BPD people exist. They are so so sick and so so dangerous.

[WalrusGumboot]

A pwBPD is a human being with feelings. We all can agree to this. We also can agree that they did not choose to be this way. They themselves are victims of this cruel illness.

If I had a friend who is seeing a pwBPD, knowing what I know, I don't think there would be any way that I could support the relationship. It's against the rules on this board to advise anybody to run, or stay, or divorce, or whatever, but I think in private conversation with somebody, I would advise them to not continue the relationship if they were starting one with a pwBPD.

[Skip]

I guess what I'm trying to say, in a very long-winded sort of way, is that this, like so much else in life, is a complex issue with no simple answer.

That being said, I don't think it's necessarily "negative" advice to tell someone just out of a failed r/s with a pwBPD not to return to that r/s. And she's absolutely right that there's nothing you can do, and that it will take them a lot of time and commitment to get better. Those are just simple truths.

I agree that telling someone who has had a failed relationship to "let it go" is good advice. Remember, a good therapist would know about how hard it is to detach and this validation is helpful.

I think its also fair to say that after the "trust" has been broken, its not likely that an "ex" is going to be able to help someone with this disorder.

There is no simple answer because this is not a black and white condition like pregnancy (you either are or are not).  Like many conditions, the earlier you deal with it and/or the less severe cases will have different outcomes.  And the elephant in the room here is that many of the SOs are not dysfunctional, not diagnosed, and are more likely exhibiting traits rather than a clinical disorder. 

And lastly, if you look at studies of mental health rehabilitation, those in a strong family environment do far better.  If you look at the recovery on anyone, they will often site a person that stood behind them and believed in them.  But the person with BPD traits had to be self motivated - just like an alcoholic must be self motivated.

[tango1492]

WOW- yes!  My therapist said run run run. He said there is really nothing else to say other than that when dealing with BPD.

[Madison66]

I agree with Skip about his statement:

And the elephant in the room here is that many of the SOs are not dysfunctional, not diagnosed, and are more likely exhibiting traits rather than a clinical disorder.

During my 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf, we tried couples T three times.  The first time, about 15 months in, the T separated us after one session to work with my ex gf on abandonment issues, intense shame, lack of empathy, etc. that the T initially thought were tied to my ex gf being sexually abused as a teen at the hands of a female HS coach.  There were about 3-4 sessions and then I was brought in for a couples session with her.  The session melted down after about a 30 minutes due to my ex becoming emotionally dysregulated and then literally leaving the session when I went to the restroom.  She cut off from me for about four days and never returned to this T.  

Ok, that T became my individual T that I've seen ever since.  My T was very up front with me about her belief that my ex gf displayed significant traits of both BPD and NPD.  She pointed to attachment issues stemming from early childhood and then the trauma of the teen sexual abuse.  My T walked a professional line of not violating privacy laws, but would only advise me to leave the r/s due to her strong belief that my ex gf would not and could not improve, and that her behavior could deteriorate.  She also saw the emotional and physical toll it was taking on me.  There was not an official diagnosis, but this T is very good and could see through the facade my ex was putting up.  

I was in deep and ignored my T's recommendation to leave the r/s. I did continue T on and off before going back into it fully during the second half of 2013 (last five months of the r/s).  My T was right on about my ex's behavior deteriorating.  Now, this could be due to her PD(s) getting worse or that my actions were triggering her more than in the past.  I did attempt to leave the r/s 3 times in the last year along with working to shore up healthy boundaries during the last six months of the r/s.  That included me speaking my mind based on "true blue" gut feelings.  This seemed to spell disaster for the r/s and my ex's emotional abuse ramped up eventually turning physical in the last month of the r/s.  She wigged out big time and attempted to use physical domination to control me.  In the last encounter, the she did several hundred dollars damage to my property as she left my home.

So, "the proof is in the pudding" for me.  My T stated at less than the halfway point of a 3+ year r/s that I should leave and that my ex's behavior would most likely deteriorate.  My ex's increased abusive behavior during the last year of the r/s was probably impacted by my increase boundaries and the three attempts to leave the r/s.  We attempted couples T two more times during that time and my ex started to see an individual T on her own.  Again, the abusive behavior worsened.  Regardless of diagnoses or not, I couldn't live with the behavior and be happy and healthy in the r/s.  The only way I see that the r/s would have continued, would have been for me to have maintained my unhealthy role in the abusive cycle.  That just could not happen for me.  

[willy45]

Mine told me very bluntly that my ex would have destroyed me, that I made the right choice in leaving and that I should run far, far away. Told me to never contact her or respond to contact. When I asked her why she kept trying to contact me, his response was that she was wanted to 'devour' me. Not super fun.

[myself]

My T brings it back to doing what is best for me.

We focus on the positives, better cope with the negatives, and move on.

Neither one of us can diagnose my ex.

The patterns and actions speak for themselves.

I'm working on mine. There's much light in the tunnel.

Everybody has something. It's what you do with it.

[corraline]

My therapist does the same with me.  She puts the focus back onto me.  If I ask her anything about my ex she usually replies with "I am not his therapist".