Has anyone else heard from the BPD person that...

[Valley Quail]

Hi friends!


    Just curious if anyone else has been told from the BPD family member after putting up boundaries to abuse and domination & moving away from it... . that the issue is a two-person relationship issue and that you should go to therapy together?

(Objecting to abuse and domination & moving away from it kindly isn't a two-person issue where I come from, )


  Thanks so much in advance.

[Kwamina]

Hello Valley Quail,

The situation you describe sounds like an example of what often happens when you try to set boundaries with someone who has BPD. They often resist and/or disrespect boundaries or try to blame the other person for their own bad behavior. In this case it seems like your BPD family member is at least partly trying to blame you for the drama going on, maybe as a way to try to manipulate you into relaxing your boundaries so the abuse can continue. I've also read your introductory post and I'm very sorry your mother is being so abusive to you. You say in your introductory post that your mother always has excuses as to why she won't go to the BPD therapy available to her. Was there ever a moment that she did go to therapy and if so, did you feel like she made any progress?

[G.J.]

Ha yes. Classic.

I think that's BPD/NPD code for "You're not accepting my abuse anymore. I'm having a harder time controlling you now. We need to go to therapy to get you straightened out so I can keep dominating you and getting my way."

I often wonder if this is just a ploy to get you to question yourself and/or deflect some of the blame and avoid talking about the real issue -- or if they are so delusional that they really think the T is going to tell them it's unacceptable for me to insist that my uBPD-mother not bring the Electrician into the bathroom while I'm taking a shower... .  

I used to get sucked in by this, because we WERE arguing and we WERE at odds more and we could never seem to get on the same page. Before I understood the game (they're not looking to compromise, mutuality or cooperation), I used to think "Well, maybe we do need a therapist to help us find a middle ground somehow!" It took me a LONG time before I realized there IS no middle ground with them and that their agenda is solely about getting their own way, regardless of what anyone else wants, needs or feels.

I'll tell you what though, I don't think I would ever do joint therapy with a BPD or NPD again. They can be SO manipulative and actually fool the therapist with their skewing of reality and bizarre retelling of events. The therapist has no idea who to believe and they're conditioned to think that they're working with 2 relatively sane people and that the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle. Beyond that, I'm shocked by how many T's are really uninformed and unskilled in picking up on BPD and dealing with it.

It's a crazy-making illness for so many reasons. It's taken me years to get a firm grasp on it and to start trusting my own reality, and knowing without a doubt that it IS them and its NOT me. There's nothing worse than a T adding to that confusion though, because they don't understand these types of PD's.

[tryintogetby]

This is from a Christian website, but it's dealing with EXACTLY this issue: "Let's go to therapy and work on OUR problems together!"  www.luke173ministries.org/652774.

[G.J.]

tryintogetby -- thanks for posting that article -- it's spot on!  It reminded me of something though... .

This guy was later diagnosed BPD, but in retrospect he was probably more NPD... .   I think this is worth sharing tho:

A guy I dated had issues with rage, jealousy, etc.     Eventually I told him I didn't want to see him anymore; but due to my own weak boundaries, I backed down when he offered to see a T on his own and get some help.

After MONTHS of him going to therapy every single week, there was no improvement.  In fact, in some ways he was worse.  But I knew he was going -- I saw his car in the parking lot!  And he kept lamenting about HOW HARD he was working in therapy!  (Poor baby )

I finally insisted that I go to a session with him (to make sure he was telling the whole story).  The T seemed confused as to why I was there, and started asking me about my relationship with his ex-wife.  I told her I was a lot less concerned about that, and a lot more concerned about the fact that his temper had been getting worse, and asked her what she thought about him throwing a suitcase at me the week prior.  She looked at me like I had 3 heads. 

Long story short: He honest-to-goodness was basically "courting" the T.  She was quite pretty and our age.  I guess it didn't matter to him that she was also married with 4 young kids.  He had told her he was there to find out how to support his kids who were struggling with the divorce, and that things were great between us.

After I broke up with him, he confided that this courtship had been "mutual," but I ruined it when I told her about how he had been behaving towards me.  He said that she had been flirting with him (in some really graphic and grossly unprofessional ways) and asking him out on coffee dates instead of doing their regular sessions, etc.  I mean, it's like in his world, he was "cheating" on me every week with this Psychologist.

(For what it's worth, I've spoken to this T since, and I don't believe this was "mutual" for one second.  I think it was his own personal grandiose delusions.)

At any rate, I say this just to make that point that even IF someone is willing to go to therapy without you, and claims they're going to improve themselves and work on their relationship with you... .   maybe a session or two together wouldn't hurt!   

[Valley Quail]

Wow, thank you so much Kwamina, G.J., and tryintogetby for your awesome kindness and insights. It feels amazing to know others like you understand, have heard of this line before and see through it for what it is along side of me.


I am blessed my mom didn't really demonstrate much BPD behavior when I was growing up. She was loving, encouraging, supportive, and peaceful. But when I was 19, she was t-boned by a drunk driver and sustained a head injury from it. Right after is when the behavior started happening, though it would take 16 or so more years to get the diagnosis. I guess between not knowing for a long time that it was indeed a mental illness along with seeing and longing for a person she used to be, it's been hard separating who she was from who she is now.


Kwamina- You are so smart. Thank you for your spot on insight and assessments of my mom. So cool of you to look at my original post too. That is a great question. She did go to therapy starting about a year-and-a-half ago. It was based on Marsha Linehan's Dialectical Skills. She was blessed to get to go completely free. It wasn't completely adherent to Marsha's program,but she was willing to try it and it was like a miracle-worker. My sweet, respectful, fair, kind mom was actually back. She went once a week to group therapy and once a week-to one-on-one therapy. But unfortunately, all the BPD behaviors started being directed at the therapists. (Putting one on a pedestal, of course to have him come crashing down, railing against another, putting in a complaint about him to the healthcare provider, drifting away from the skills, telling me that they sort of ganged up on her, and then what I know now may have been a lie... . that the program was up.)

I think she went for 6 months... . and even after she was out of the therapy, she was still using the skills and was doing pretty awesome... . being kind, fair, respectful, loving, and supportive. About 1 year and 3 months after starting the therapy that she basically had a meltdown. So I suggested she try another therapist. She went and it was awesome again. A month or two later, there was a falling out and then a bit after, she said that they told her they could only have her come once every 3 weeks. Three months after starting that therapist ... . there was this most recent meltdown last month

... . quite a doozy. Therapy has been a real miracle-worker, but then the behaviors start rearing their head and are directed toward the therapist, she doesn't want to go and can't find the determination to press on and then everything she worked for starts unraveling. So that's my long-winded answer to your insightful question. I am very thankful for the good times that came from the awesome therapy. Now if they could just make a supplement that keeps them going to it.

[Valley Quail]

G.J. --Thank you so much for your awesome insights and mentioning that it's classic when you're not taking the abuse anymore. I was feeling really alone and that made me feel so much better. I'm sorry for the pain caused by the BPD person in your life. Thank you for sharing your story of how going to joint therapy back-fired on you.


I'm really sorry that happened. Thanks for telling it (and for telling the story about the guy you were dating and the therapist)so that others can learn from your experience. You're right, most therapists don't understand the P.D's and it can really be crazy-making. And that it so spot-on... . they don't want mutuality, compromise, or middle ground. They want what they want, regardless of what anyone else wants, needs, or feels. It feels so awesome to know someone else can really relate. 

Thanks for your reply. And I just love your great analogy... . that the BPD person can really think the T is going to tell them it's unacceptable for me to insist that my uBPD-mother not bring the Electrician into the bathroom while I'm taking a shower.

Thanks so much.


tryintogetby--Thank you so much for your post. That gave me such a much-needed smile. Isn't it so true how they can make it into "Let's go work on OUR problems together!"? Thanks so much for your reply and for posting the article. I look forward to reading it.



I can't thank you all enough for replying and showing that you understand exactly. It feels so amazing and helped me so much. I hope you all have a great weekend.

-VQ