Depersonalizing BPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey Leaving Board!

I know when I first came here, I was a bit of a mess - as we all are.  Learning about BPD - the facts - helped me to depersonalize the experience.

One thing that I have noticed getting lost in this message is the FACT - we then still have to feel the feelings.  Our feelings do not go away because we depersonalize the actions - if anything, my feelings were actually amplified because I could then feel the very real, deep pain.

Steps to detachment - 1 - Acknowledgement

Are you enmeshed in the disorder even if apart or NC?  I was for quite a while.  What that looked like for me was obsessing over BPD rather than my own emotions... . on one hand, that helped me function, but on the other hand - it was keeping me stuck.

Acknowledging this fact helped me start to get "unstuck" in that phase to where I could really begin to work with feelings besides panic and anger.



If you see yourself in this phase - tell us about it.

If you recognize this phase and got past it -tell us how you did it - the "aha".

Peace,

SB

[seeking balance]

Hey Leaving Board!

I know when I first came here, I was a bit of a mess - as we all are.  Learning about BPD - the facts - helped me to depersonalize the experience.

One thing that I have noticed getting lost in this message is the FACT - we then still have to feel the feelings.  Our feelings do not go away because we depersonalize the actions - if anything, my feelings were actually amplified because I could then feel the very real, deep pain.

Steps to detachment - 1 - Acknowledgement

Are you enmeshed in the disorder even if apart or NC?  I was for quite a while.  What that looked like for me was obsessing over BPD rather than my own emotions... . on one hand, that helped me function, but on the other hand - it was keeping me stuck.

Acknowledging this fact helped me start to get "unstuck" in that phase to where I could really begin to work with feelings besides panic and anger.



If you see yourself in this phase - tell us about it.

If you recognize this phase and got past it -tell us how you did it - the "aha".

Peace,

SB

[Front runner]

I don't know what phase I'm on but it hurts like hell.

Coming up to 3 weeks no contact and I'm about to burst.

I'm constantly making deals with myself.

If I try and face the fact that she might never contact me again then I collapse in despair. So for me to function I tell myself that she will be back somewhere down the line.

I then have an internal struggle trying to determine when that might be.

The BPD stuff isn't helping much because I say to myself that she is more like my to be back because of the disorder and our past behaviours. BUT then I say this time was more final on her part because of the nature of the breakup so I won't ever see her again. Then complete despair. I really need help.

If I look at the facts there's no way on earth she's coming back. Then the BPD stuff comes into the equation, like she can change her mind etc and fall back in 'love'.

It's all about her. Some days I can't bring it back to me at all. Especially if I had a drink the night before. Obsession and bargaining with myself with 'will she back' how can I break this cycle?

Thanks

[seeking balance]

I don't know what phase I'm on but it hurts like hell.

Coming up to 3 weeks no contact and I'm about to burst.

Hey, you acknowledged where you are - no right or wrong on this... . and I can tell you one thing for sure - if feels horrible now (I puked every day for about a month, I remember)... . but it will get better, honestly.   

I'm constantly making deals with myself.

If I try and face the fact that she might never contact me again then I collapse in despair. So for me to function I tell myself that she will be back somewhere down the line.

This is a good strategy and aligns with the bargaining phase of grief.  If this helps you get the time under your belt to not fall completely apart, it is working for you.

I then have an internal struggle trying to determine when that might be.

The BPD stuff isn't helping much because I say to myself that she is more like my to be back because of the disorder and our past behaviours. BUT then I say this time was more final on her part because of the nature of the breakup so I won't ever see her again. Then complete despair. I really need help.

You know what helped me some?  Reading the staying board (not posting), but reading how much struggle there is over there.  It kinda helped me stop romanticizing it all... . combined with article 9 - False Beliefs that kept me stuck I was able to slowly detach.

If I look at the facts there's no way on earth she's coming back. Then the BPD stuff comes into the equation, like she can change her mind etc and fall back in 'love'.

It hurts to feel this, I know - you are right however.  IT is one of the False Beliefs actually - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening.

When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits.

Unknown to you, there were likely significant   periods   of   shame,   fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.

Especially if I had a drink the night before.

I stayed away from alcohol for a bit, it just made things worse.

Obsession and bargaining with myself with 'will she back' how can I break this cycle?

Thanks

You know what Front Runner - this is where you are... . all of us on these boards have been in these same shoes.  You are not alone.

It isn't glamorous or easy, but there is a basic formula that tends to work.

1 - The basics - eat, sleep, exercise (staying away from drugs and alcohol)

2- start therapy

3- pick something you have always wanted to do and do it.  A new goal helps (it doesn't FEEL better immediately, but the new focus over time helps tremendously).

4 - cry (rinse & repeat)

5 - Read the lessons and workshops here

Thank you for sharing Front Runner!

Peace,

SB

[Cardinals in Flight]

I think depersonalization was the first thing my T talked about when issues arose with my pwBPD.  I read a lot about BPD, technically I understand many aspects and how and why I got involved. That being said, I seem to be having some delayed reaction, or as has been said before, finally grieving the end.  Many many aspects of this rs read like a BPD textbook, but there are two human beings involved here, me, and her.

I think when I wrote yesterday on another thread that the "loss of hope" is profoundly sad, that in the actual writing it struck something inside of me, deeply and I'm lower today than in many months.  A couple of weeks ago I experienced some pretty deep sadness and know that it was in conjunction with some other stuff in my life, loss... .

I know I am not where I was when I first came here in Dec. 2011, That's a good thing.

I know I am not in denial. I accept my former gf is seriously ill.  I know that nothing will ever be the same again between us, ie the "honeymoon, idealization" phase, or even some kind of quasi friendship.  I accept that I was emotionally abused, and most of the time did not deserve it, I know I'm no paragon of virtue, and made things worse at times.  I knew by telling her the truth of how I really felt, after being in denial about it, or pretending out of fear, that it would close the door to ANY type of relationship with her, and I was right.  I'm proud of myself for speaking my truth.  I was loving and kind.  Many other truths I could've spoken I elected not to do so.  I think I am in the depths of my grief?  And I also think my heart is still attached.

CiF

[seeking balance]

CIF - you outlined really well what I thinking about for this thread

  I read a lot about BPD, technically I understand many aspects and how and why I got involved.

Many many aspects of this rs read like a BPD textbook,

.  I think I am in the depths of my grief?  And I also think my heart is still attached.

I distinctly remember joking that I know as much about BPD as many T's - and the truth was, I did.

That didn't stop the inevitable pain and grief that I would have to feel.  And it took me some real time to get to the place of hopelessness - that no matter what, it really is over.

Depersonalizing for me was like getting the ride to stop.  But once it was stopped, I realized I was 1,000 feet in the air, upside down with one hand tied behind my back - how the heck was I going to get back to ground level and balanced, unscathed?

The secret - it wasn't pretty and I was pretty banged up falling down some... . but we all find our ground in time - and it comes when we act in the face of our fears.

But the first real step - acknowledgment that we are indeed 1,000 feet high, upside down and one hand tied... . but hey, we start where we are, right?

Thanks for sharing CIF... . you really are further along than you even know. 

[Tincup]

SB-Great topic here, and timely for me personally.  I think I am almost through the depersonalizing phase.  I read a great deal and posted on this site many times.  I was clearly obsessing over BPD because it was all new to me.  Even with each recycle I would "forget" what her behavior was like.  

For me I was "stuck" because I was having a really hard time processing my emotions because of the mixed messages and confusion that comes with BPD.  Many times I really didn't know what I was feeling.  I would research and read and say oh yeah that is what I am feeling after relating to someones post.  But I was having such a hard time wrapping my head around everything.

I really think I am coming out of this phase by concentrating on my needs and MY responsibility in this.  She didn't do all these horrible things to me, I allowed her to do these things and run circles around my boundaries.

[1KitKat]

I'm in the 'trying to let go' phase.  No matter what this man has done to me, to the kids and in past relationships - the lying, the cheating, the baiting, the creeping me out with his weird stuff, the EVERYTHING, I have never stopped loving him nor being in love with him. 

It's all great and good to admit that he has a serious psychological issue - I get that.  But it doesn't change my feelings for him.  What DID shift for me about a week ago was that I realize that, no matter how I feel, there is no way that we can be together in any kind of relationship.  Kind of like... .   I want it but can't have it.  I am learning to accept that.  I feel much better just having had that revelation.  It was his stupid trick with hiding the cond#ms in his jacket that did it.  I completely freaked out, and then I was, like, WOW.  This guy is seriously messed up.  And then a shift happened in me.

I've been married to this guy for 17 years.  My road will be long.

[seeking balance]

Glad you joined the party Tincup - you highlighted on something really import in stage 1 - acknowledging we don't even know what or why we are feeling something... . I was good at anger, but the other emotions - not so much!

.  I was clearly obsessing over BPD because it was all new to me.

I am analytical by nature, so there was a puzzle element for me in this too - a nice distraction.

 Many times I really didn't know what I was feeling.  I would research and read and say oh yeah that is what I am feeling after relating to someones post.  

This is such a good statement for others to read - it is so helpful when others who can articulate their own feelings do when we are so lost.

I really think I am coming out of this phase by concentrating on my needs and MY responsibility in this.

Was there an "aha" event or was it a process over time that needed to occur to get to this line of thinking?

[seeking balance]

Thanks for chiming in KitKat!

It's all great and good to admit that he has a serious psychological issue - I get that.  But it doesn't change my feelings for him. 

So true, feeling are not facts and trying to make them facts really is a no win for anyone involved.

What DID shift for me about a week ago was that I realize that, no matter how I feel, there is no way that we can be together in any kind of relationship.  Kind of like... .   I want it but can't have it.  I am learning to accept that.  I feel much better just having had that revelation.

I've been married to this guy for 17 years.  My road will be long.

17 years is a long time - be good to yourself through all of this.

Best,

SB

[Cardinals in Flight]

Yeah, I'm 1000 feet upside down, hanging by one arm, AND I can't breathe because the snot has all rushed to my head from crying  .  You're right, not a great place.  I really have a lot of clarity, felt as though I had a grasp and knew my mission. I know in my head that detachment is freedom, it puts me on better ground, can someone send a cherry picker to pluck me down?  I feel like falling on my head is the only thing that will snap me outta this though.

[numb_buddha]

... . it doesn't change my feelings for him.  What DID shift for me about a week ago was that I realize that, no matter how I feel, there is no way that we can be together in any kind of relationship.  Kind of like... .   I want it but can't have it.

That was true for me, also. It was a depressing place to be and also very liberating (realizing there is no beating BPD). I still wish there were some way but there just isn't. For me, staying and leaving both spelled pain, and I was desperately avoiding both. In the end I was no longer out to be a doormat and I stopped letting things slide for the sake of peace (peace being she does what she wants and I shut up). She did me the favor in ending it. I do thank her for that or I might still be on that weird fence of wanting to stay and wanting to leave... .

[seeking balance]

Here is a secret, you will eventually end up on the ground - how you get there is up to you... .

can someone send a cherry picker to pluck me down?

nope - your ex is not that cherry picker 

You gotta save yourself my friend.

So, how do you learn how to breathe through the other nostril and get quiet?  If you spin around too much, you might slip - and that certainly causes a panic, doesn't it?

[Tincup]

Was there an "aha" event or was it a process over time that needed to occur to get to this line of thinking?

SB-It was both actually.  I analyze everything in order to process it.  So time AWAY and NC from her was needed for me to process.  

But I think the "aha" event was realizing that I would not allow ANYONE to treat me the way I was treated.  Meaning if a friend had done 1/4 of the same things I would of just written them off as NOT a friend of mine, and certainly not someone that had my best interest at heart.  

[seeking balance]

Thanks for joining us Numb Buddha!

For me, staying and leaving both spelled pain, and I was desperately avoiding both.

So, in terms of the 5 Stages of Detachment and acknowledgment - this sounds like a really big realization for you!

[Cardinals in Flight]

I don't know how to stop loving her, even from afar cuz I know she isn't coming back.

[myself]

Part of what got me to finally detach was actually starting to take it more personally. This is even after she'd repeatedly told me she did things intentionally to hurt me. I'd made excuses for her, believed hers, and took it on when she said it was my fault. Found this site, learned about PD traits, worked things out in T... . But I kept pushing some of it aside, thinking love would be enough, and people in love do not abuse each other. Negative patterns overwhelmed the r/s. It was when I stopped circling around the facts, and really faced them, that I was able to get myself and my emotions out of there, where I've made more sense of the bigger picture. Forgive her? Sure. Forget her? Never. Not sure I'll ever find true freedom, but detachment is well on its way.

[Front runner]

I wish I could cry

[seeking balance]

Part of what got me to finally detach was actually starting to take it more personally. This is even after she'd repeatedly told me she did things intentionally to hurt me.

Great contribution myself - depersonalizing to the point of numbing and devaluing our own emotions.

So... . acknowledging our REAL emotions takes some time perhaps?

[seeking balance]

I wish I could cry

you will

[Cardinals in Flight]

Part of what got me to finally detach was actually starting to take it more personally. This is even after she'd repeatedly told me she did things intentionally to hurt me. I'd made excuses for her, believed hers, and took it on when she said it was my fault. Found this site, learned about PD traits, worked things out in T... . But I kept pushing some of it aside, thinking love would be enough, and people in love do not abuse each other. Negative patterns overwhelmed the r/s. It was when I stopped circling around the facts, and really faced them, that I was able to get myself and my emotions out of there, where I've made more sense of the bigger picture. Forgive her? Sure. Forget her? Never. Not sure I'll ever find true freedom, but detachment is well on its way.

She did some very ugly things to me, things hard to overlook which finally made me end it.  I realized she never said what she truly meant, in fact most things she said she actually did and felt the total opposite!  She's bad for me, bad to me, and I'm not going to pave her way back this time as historically I've done.  It feels over too.  But I don't want to have these loving feelings for her anymore.  I've forgiven her, too much really because I always saw through what caused the issue, that kept me in doormat mode and I'm not doing that anymore.

[Turkish]

Talk to as many people as possible whom you can trust. For some here, I know that is hard.

I talked to my mom last night to update her on what was going on. My mom periodically physically, verbally and emotionally abused me as a kid, suffers from severe depression, and has several BPD traits, though probably not enough for a dX. I got to a point almost 20 years ago where I forgave her for my childhood, and said it to her face. Things got better after that, though I keep a distance still. I then opened up about some of the more extreme incidents in my r/s, and my mom was shocked, "I never knew that, I'm sorry that happened to you. Wow."

My mom is a nurse, and knows something about BPD, which she became aware of in the '80s, she says. Leaving aside that, it helped give me more perspective on my uBPDx and my r/s. Even two months ago, just after she moved out, I still had a small feeling in the back of my mind like, "surely there was something I could have done to make it better, perhaps she will come back at some point" though logically I know this can't ever happen, not only for me, but for our children.

Getting my mother's perspective, which was a real reaction--- empathetic, not manipulative, helped me detach even more. I think what helped, as opposed to the reactions of my friends, is that it was just that: empathy, rather than judgement of my Ex.

[seeking balance]

Getting my mother's perspective, which was a real reaction--- empathetic, not manipulative, helped me detach even more. I think what helped, as opposed to the reactions of my friends, is that it was just that: empathy, rather than judgement of my Ex.

That must have been very validating for you Turkish.

[Cardinals in Flight]

That's awesome Turkish. I had issues I've put to bed w my own mom.  She's been wonderful but she's sick, but she's also smart and knew something was rotten in Denmark!

I'm all about keeping it fun and light hearted for her, she took care of me now it's my turn

[Cimbaruns]

Thanks for the great thread here SB... . and for all of your insightful posts!

I believe I am working through stages 1 thru 3 in my Detatching with NC

Where I think I hang up... . is the continued analyzing of the whole BPD dynamic and the entire r/s that I just came out of...

Yes... . the upside down thing ... . 1000 feet up as SB said!

I've acknowledged the fact( 100 %) that my exBPD was a very disordered individual... and with my codependency issues is made for the "perfect storm" if you will... . for both of us.

I think as much as I try and ground myself and continue to settle... . in the back of my mind it's always ever present that there is still more trauma left. I am smack in the middle of my divorce process and awaiting her signatures and a court date... . and quite frankly it's almost like I CANT fully detatch because of my anticipation of things to come.

Does this make sense to any of you... .

As much as NC contact has helped me (tremendously I might add) it's like I know the shoe is still going to drop here... . A little anxiety maybe although nothing like I endured in the 4+ years I was with her

All the good things I have done... . well it seems as if my heart is still attached and my gut tells me ... . uh oh

I want to honestly say that I have done some amazing work for just 3 months out... .

Eating better

Exercising

Setting some goals

Staying away from drugs and alcohol

Also instead of pushing the feelings or ruminations down ... . I stop... . recognize them... . and quickly put them on a little leaf and send it down the river... . a sort of visualization of sorts ... . it which I let it go and watch it float away.

But I believe I am a long way from fully Detatching

Can we really fully detatch... . until in some way... . all the pieces of the relationship being over ... . come to be?  In my case... . my day in court where I can finally "walk away"!

The head and heart on the same page if you will... .

[seeking balance]

I think as much as I try and ground myself and continue to settle... . in the back of my mind it's always ever present that there is still more trauma left. I am smack in the middle of my divorce process and awaiting her signatures and a court date... . and quite frankly it's almost like I CANT fully detatch because of my anticipation of things to come.

Does this make sense to any of you... .

YEP - makes complete sense to me.

This is exactly where you are and it is true you are stuck in a holding pattern and the next level likely won't come until it is really all done.  I was surprised when I had a real hard time months after it was all done - the divorce process does keep a bit of a tie.  The difference was that I had established better tools for coping in the deep sadness, so it didn't feel as life shattering.

I want to honestly say that I have done some amazing work for just 3 months out... .

Eating better

Exercising

Setting some goals

Staying away from drugs and alcohol

Also instead of pushing the feelings or ruminations down ... . I stop... . recognize them... . and quickly put them on a little leaf and send it down the river... . a sort of visualization of sorts ... . it which I let it go and watch it float away.

good stuff here - I hope you can use the actions as a way to rebuild your own self-worth... . these simple things are not in any way easy to do 

But I believe I am a long way from fully Detatching

Can we really fully detatch... . until in some way... . all the pieces of the relationship being over ... . come to be?  In my case... . my day in court where I can finally "walk away"!

The head and heart on the same page if you will...

IMHO - my rambling

I think the word detach in the beginning - phases is important - but when we are at the 4 & 5 steps - especially Freedom it is less important.  My ex can cross my mind in either kindness or anger and I can let it go pretty quickly and it is not effecting how I live my life.  But, if she called - I am pretty sure I would panic a bit - does that make me less detached or does it make me human?  Not sure and I don't really care these days... . maybe that is freedom.

Thanks for sharing Cimbaruns - a good perspective from someone going through the divorce process.

[Cimbaruns]

I think as much as I may be in a "holding pattern"... . I can't help but feel that is allowing me the time to be with this whole divorce process.

I almost feel that it's allowing me to run the scenario through ... . so as to be with ALL of the possible feelings that I may experience on that day in court where I have to come FACE TO FACE with all of it!

I believe that the coping skills that I am learning now will give me the strength to hit this thing head on... .

All those emotions will be thrown out there ... . swirling around like that crazy merry go round that I rode for so many years... . The guilt. The shame the anger the blame... . holy cow... . it'll be a maelstrom... .

However one thing will be different... .

It'll be about ME this time... . a stronger me... . a little anxious no doubt... . but off the ride and grounded... . and most of all... . ready to live my life for ME

A lot of work to do once finalized... . but with a renewed sense of purpose!

Peace and strength to all here facing the same

[Emelie Emelie]

i'm completely enmeshed.  I wasn't even aware of the concept until I was wailing to my T... . "What is wrong with me?  Why am I obsessed with someone who was so horrible to me?"  He said okay, here you go.  I've done some reading on enmeshment since then.  He had his enmeshment issues and I had mine.  A big part of mine was feeling responsible for his feelings.  (Still do.)  My T believed it was FOO issues... . I don't know... . we didn't get that far.  I do know that in my marriage, which certainly had it's share of problems... . this wasn't an issue.  Or at least I believe it wasn't an issue.  So it's an interesting dynamic in this relationship.  He had realized he was BPD not long before we met.  He had been dating a woman for about three months and she was the first one he told.  The first time he lost it and raged at her she left.  For good.  He was devastated.  So I invested so much in understanding this condition and learning communication tools etc.  I'm sure I know a helluva a lot more than he does about the disorder.  But all that "work" on the rs didn't ultimately matter.  Because I was the only one working on it.

[seeking balance]

So I invested so much in understanding this condition and learning communication tools etc.  I'm sure I know a helluva a lot more than he does about the disorder.  But all that "work" on the rs didn't ultimately matter.  Because I was the only one working on it.

Acknowledging that had to feel rough... . it really is an "aha" when we know more than they do - yet it doesn't always save the relationship. 

Enmeshed is a tricky spider web to get away from - do you trust your T to help guide you out?

[bruised]

 Even with each recycle I would "forget" what her behavior was like.  

I started keeping a "Sh*t List". Whenever she did something nasty to me I would record it on my "Sh*t List" while the emotions were still raw. Time dulls the pain, so whenever I feel my defences braking down I consult my S.L. and I regain my resolve.

[bruised]

I wish I could cry

Me too. She treated me horribly one night and I've never felt as bad as I did the next day. I wanted to cry, but I couldn't. It was awful.