ARGH: Setting boundarys

[Aussie JJ]

Hi all, I am strugling to implement boundarys with BPDexgf around coparenting.  She constantly moves the goal posts and I have been told consistancy from me is one of the most important things by my P.  He has recomended I ask what her view of cooperation is and for me to set some boundarys in writing as well.  

I can't help but think im being to agressive no matter how many times I write this and every time I delete something I feel I have to put more back in.  Less is more and I'm having trouble with editing this down.  Names changed for annon... .  I keep thinking im having a stab at her and feel like I have to to be honest but it's just going to be counterproductive... .  im better saying nothing negative and holding my comments back.  


BPDEXGF,

I am constantly hearing from you that you have tried to cooperate with me and it doesn't work, you make it out that I am the case of all problems in our previous relationship and now acting as co-parents.  I strugle with this and beleive that some of these problems could be addressed by you being specific about your interpretation of cooperation and would like to have you provide that description.  

I would ask that you operationalise your expectations and be specific about what your description of cooperation is.  I am willing to meet you half way and work towards an agreement where there is a structure in place.  

The more specific you are with your expectations the more I will be able to meet them.  There are things I will disagree on, and I will be forthcoming and honest with these items and also my expectations and how you can meet these.  Until these are listed specifically I feel like the fence is constantly moving on what you expect out of me and this leads to disagreement and conflict.  Conflict is not healthy for 2YOSON and is something that we both have to work on reducing.  

Their are other things I will highlight in the future when the situation has calmed down.  I have multiple things I am unhappy with about the way you behave towards me and the way you treat my relationship with 2YOSON in the past and at present.  Primarily amongst these is MEDIATORS relevation at the last mediation session that 2YOSON wasn't returned to you harmed, this highlighted to me that you had raised this as a concern with MEDIATOR but never with me.  This I find abhorrent.  

I will highlight things that are positive moving forward and try to stick to these things.  The above I cannot ignore and I would ask you to please explain your position or fears to me.  

I will highlight that I have NEVER abused you or 2YOSON in any way shape or form and that if you have any concerns or complaints I would ask you to report me to the Police.  If not they are baseless accusations designed to manipulate MEDIATOR the mediator and others whom you tell these stories to.  

I will ask that you communicate to me what your expectations are for communication about 2YOSON in the future and be specific, organisational etc.  

I will start with 8 things, these I will abide by and ask that you do the same:

• Replys to e-mails within 48 hours.  

• Be open to other parents input into decisions and seek other parents input into decisions that are important in 2YOSON's life.  

• Where their is a disagreement get a independant 3rd party to advise us of the best course of action to reduce conflict between us.

• Inform each other of milestones in 2YOSON's life.  

• Respect and support each others role as 2YOSON's parents.  

• Be supportive of extended family spending time with 2YOSON.  

• Conduct mediation like a buisness.  Provide notes on big ticket issues in advance and address issues with consideration to the other person and most importantly 2YOSON.  

• Engaging a Child psycologist to advise us of the best course of action in relation to 2YOSON's care.  Please see above.  

I would ask you reply accordingly with and if these expectations are unreasonable or unworkable for you address it via e-mail.  

So far I feel both you and me have not made a large enough effort to fix these problems and I would ask that you make that effort now as I am endevouring to.  It is easy to continue in a cycle without change however I feel it isnt productive and will harm 2YOSON more than either of us.  

My opinion is you have taken every opportunity to cause chaos to undermine my relationship with 2YOSON and try to make me emotionally unstable and keep me constantly on edge to manipulate my behaviour.  

I also fear that if I raise all of my concerns you will feel like I am persecuting you and not being constructive, my concerns are vast and I have them listed but I don't think it is constructive to confront you with these.   I don't think you are receptive to negative feedback or critisism and I will keep these opinions to myself.  

I will act in 2YOSON's best interests and beleive having a specific and operational list of your expectations would assist in moving forward as co-parents and reducing conflict.  

If you have a problem with these points I raise I invite you to address them.  

Regards,


AUSSIEJJ

[AwakenedOne]

Hi all, I am strugling to implement boundarys with BPDexgf around coparenting.  She constantly moves the goal posts and I have been told consistancy from me is one of the most important things by my P.  He has recomended I ask what her view of cooperation is and for me to set some boundarys in writing as well.  

I can't help but think im being to agressive no matter how many times I write this and every time I delete something I feel I have to put more back in.  Less is more and I'm having trouble with editing this down.  Names changed for annon... .  I keep thinking im having a stab at her and feel like I have to to be honest but it's just going to be counterproductive... . im better saying nothing negative and holding my comments back.  


BPDEXGF,

I am constantly hearing from you that you have tried to cooperate with me and it doesn't work, you make it out that I am the case of all problems in our previous relationship and now acting as co-parents.  I strugle with this and beleive that some of these problems could be addressed by you being specific about your interpretation of cooperation and would like to have you provide that description.  

I would ask that you operationalise your expectations and be specific about what your description of cooperation is.  I am willing to meet you half way and work towards an agreement where there is a structure in place.  

The more specific you are with your expectations the more I will be able to meet them.  There are things I will disagree on, and I will be forthcoming and honest with these items and also my expectations and how you can meet these.  Until these are listed specifically I feel like the fence is constantly moving on what you expect out of me and this leads to disagreement and conflict.  Conflict is not healthy for 2YOSON and is something that we both have to work on reducing.  

Their are other things I will highlight in the future when the situation has calmed down.  I have multiple things I am unhappy with about the way you behave towards me and the way you treat my relationship with 2YOSON in the past and at present.  Primarily amongst these is MEDIATORS relevation at the last mediation session that 2YOSON wasn't returned to you harmed, this highlighted to me that you had raised this as a concern with MEDIATOR but never with me.  This I find abhorrent.  

I will highlight things that are positive moving forward and try to stick to these things.  The above I cannot ignore and I would ask you to please explain your position or fears to me.  

I will highlight that I have NEVER abused you or 2YOSON in any way shape or form and that if you have any concerns or complaints I would ask you to report me to the Police.  If not they are baseless accusations designed to manipulate MEDIATOR the mediator and others whom you tell these stories to.  

I will ask that you communicate to me what your expectations are for communication about 2YOSON in the future and be specific, organisational etc.  

I will start with 8 things, these I will abide by and ask that you do the same:

• Replys to e-mails within 48 hours.  

• Be open to other parents input into decisions and seek other parents input into decisions that are important in 2YOSON's life.  

• Where their is a disagreement get a independant 3rd party to advise us of the best course of action to reduce conflict between us.

• Inform each other of milestones in 2YOSON's life.  

• Respect and support each others role as 2YOSON's parents.  

• Be supportive of extended family spending time with 2YOSON.  

• Conduct mediation like a buisness.  Provide notes on big ticket issues in advance and address issues with consideration to the other person and most importantly 2YOSON.  

• Engaging a Child psycologist to advise us of the best course of action in relation to 2YOSON's care.  Please see above.  

I would ask you reply accordingly with and if these expectations are unreasonable or unworkable for you address it via e-mail.  

So far I feel both you and me have not made a large enough effort to fix these problems and I would ask that you make that effort now as I am endevouring to.  It is easy to continue in a cycle without change however I feel it isnt productive and will harm 2YOSON more than either of us.  

My opinion is you have taken every opportunity to cause chaos to undermine my relationship with 2YOSON and try to make me emotionally unstable and keep me constantly on edge to manipulate my behaviour.  

I also fear that if I raise all of my concerns you will feel like I am persecuting you and not being constructive, my concerns are vast and I have them listed but I don't think it is constructive to confront you with these.   I don't think you are receptive to negative feedback or critisism and I will keep these opinions to myself.  

I will act in 2YOSON's best interests and beleive having a specific and operational list of your expectations would assist in moving forward as co-parents and reducing conflict.  

If you have a problem with these points I raise I invite you to address them.  

Regards,


AUSSIEJJ

Hi Aussie JJ,

My thoughts / suggestions:

Maybe start the letter off with you complimenting her about something-> like how she did good with something related to your son. Not over the top like she's mother of the year though. Something that's nice or friendly to start off with in a paragraph. Like you see she is really trying or something.

Another suggestion: is to take out that paragraph I highlighted in red. That would probably just make her mad and isn't going to be helpful.

Sorry your having to go through all this to see your son. I know he is really important part of your life. Hang in there and good luck with things.

AO

[Aussie JJ]

I know its not constructive and have deleted it since posting here.  Added a positive thing at the start.  Problem is I'm not acknowledging all of the negative things she has done.   I feel like the whole thing is a bloody lie. 

Evil BPD.  All the actions that are negative etc all come from those 3 letter's and I hate it. 

[talithacumi]

Don't give up, Aussie ... . you sound like a really loving/committed father and the concerns you have about working out the problems you're experiencing trying to coparent are therefore really valid/real/important ... . don't let your frustration with how much harder BPD makes it for you to work out keep you from continuing to try!

My first impression is that you're probably right about that gut feeling you had that you were using this opportunity to take a couple of what sounds like really justified stabs at her.

You kept wandering off the main point of the letter to bring up stuff she'd said/done in the past that you didn't understand, disagreed with, took exception to, had been insulted/offended by, and otherwise had some kind of unresolved issue with ... . you used a lot of emotionally-loaded language to describe her and her behavior in general ... . you made a lot of demands of her without discussing why having her do those things will alleviate some of the problems you're having coparenting and/or would otherwise make things better/easier for her ... . and, in general, it was way too long to ever really be all that effective with someone who has BPD.

Have you read the workshop on SET and DEARMAN?

I'd probably start with SET, keep it as short/sweet as possible, and stay focused on the specific problems you're both having in the present trying to make this coparenting thing work ... . then, once you've defused the immediate tension/conflict, use DEARMAN to reach consensus about what each one of you is willing to do/give to address one separate issue at a time.

For example:

Support: I hear what you're saying about having tried, and feeling like you haven't been able to get the kind of cooperation you need/want from me in order to make this coparenting thing work.

Empathy: It's perfectly understandable that you would be upset about our son not getting the kind of love, attention, reassurance, and emotional support we both agree he needs, and have always been so committed to trying to give to him.

Truth: We are both new to parenting under these circumstances. We are bound to get frustrated by not always knowing what the right thing is to do, and we are going to repeatedly change the expectations we have of one another but always, I'd like to think, just for the sake of our child's welfare.

I don't know about you, but I feel pretty overwhelmed by everything that involves for me right now. Talking about, trying to remember, and making plans to address all of the concerns we both have all at once and right away obviously hasn't worked very well for either one of us. I think maybe if we just took a step back, and took turns focusing on one at a time, in order of their priority/importance to each of us, we might have more success.

Something like that. Less about either one of you as people, the things you've said/done, and the feelings you both have about all of that stuff. More about what you're trying to do now, in the present, that's causing both of you so many otherwise completely valid concerns as parents.

[HappyNihilist]

Aussie, you're in such a tough spot and I feel for you.  

I love talithacumi's advice and samples.  

I took your original and red-penned it. My 2 cents only... . I just feel that, the more detached and to-the-point, the better the chances of getting a productive response. There's too much in the original for her to get defensive about, and then she won't be "listening" to a word beyond that.

BPDEXGF,

I am willing to meet you half way and work towards an agreement where there is a structure in place. The more specific you are with your expectations the more I will be able to meet them. There are things I will disagree on, and I will be forthcoming and honest with these items and my expectations. Conflict is not healthy for 2YOSON and is something that we both have to work on reducing.  

It feels like I am not meeting your interpretation of cooperation. It would be helpful for me to know what cooperation looks like to you, so I can do my part in reducing conflict.

Below are my 8 expectations:

• Replys to e-mails within 48 hours.  

• Be open to other parents input into decisions and seek other parents input into decisions that are important in 2YOSON's life.  

• Where their is a disagreement get a independant 3rd party to advise us of the best course of action to reduce conflict between us.

• Inform each other of milestones in 2YOSON's life.  

• Respect and support each others role as 2YOSON's parents.  

• Be supportive of extended family spending time with 2YOSON.  

• Conduct mediation like a buisness.  Provide notes on big ticket issues in advance and address issues with consideration to the other person and most importantly 2YOSON.  

• Engaging a Child psycologist to advise us of the best course of action in relation to 2YOSON's care.  Please see above.  

If these expectations are unreasonable or unworkable for you, please address it via e-mail.

Please let me know what your specific expectations are for communication about 2YOSON in the future.  It is easy to continue in a cycle without change however I feel it isnt productive and will harm 2YOSON more than either of us. I will act in 2YOSON's best interests and beleive having a specific and operational list of your expectations would assist in moving forward as co-parents and reducing conflict.  

Also, I'm concerned by MEDIATORS relevation at the last mediation session that 2YOSON wasn't returned to you harmed, this highlighted to me that you had raised this as a concern with MEDIATOR but never with me. I cannot ignore this, and I would ask you to please explain your position or fears to me.  

Regards,


AUSSIEJJ

For the last paragraph... . I know this is something you need to talk about with her, but I'd recommend leaving it out of this particular letter. Just because, again, this will probably draw her focus, and then nothing else in the letter -- the very reason for the letter -- will be addressed.

[Aussie JJ]

Ok, thankyou for pulling me back, I did something I haven't done in a while and 'marked' my previous e-mails.  I have been trying to implement SET and be positive in communication verbally but have failed on 2 previous e-mails and gone to pointing the finger mode.  Gotta work on myself first at the end of the day... .

I went with two points instead of 8!  One I have been trying for months with a child psycologist and the other so I can get responses.  I wont get the child psycologist... .   it is so simple but hopefully ill get responses within 48 hours now I hope... .

I've invited her to do the same starting small and building on that. 

talithacumi and Happy, thank you I deleted 90 % and started again.  Made it a lot simpler with SET as the start (90% of your intro here actually ) then the 2 points and tried to finish positive as well. 

I am dreading this where I am giving ground sort of on something like a child psycologist but of I start getting responses to e-mails at least and she shares medical information then I can follow this all up independently at least and make sure I'm involved and aware of the problems so I can address them. 

I am going to bring up lots of little things and try to get those concessions.   At the end of the day fighting her  or confronting the issues isn't working its feeding her view of me being uncooperative and supporting her attempts to cut me out in her head. 

I have to leave the fighting to the lawyer and remain as my P says 'nuteral'.  If I accept it for what it is and deal with it at face value its healthier for me and ultimately my son. 

[Aussie JJ]

OK,

This will sound like a joke but I understand her response.  I managed to calm it down and get her to reply semi-appropriatelly.  Basically BPXx has said one point is unworkable and the other isn't necessary, she cant understand why I don't accept her view.   

48 HR reply cant be done as she doesn't have wifi at new home.  I have a previous convo with her telling me she does have it and the phone she has I bought her can have the internet on it.  So an excuss to avoid the issue. 

Child psycologist she doesn't understand how it will reduce conflict between us and then separated by a paragraph she states age appropriate visitation.  So she acknowledges seperatelly that she knows whats best. 

She raised one positive thing that is workable for both of us.  I have replied saying that's a positive thing I agree lets both do that.  Then said I'm going to work through my thoughts and consider her opinion on the other issues before getting back to her. 

I understand how she has communicated with me and I can see the pattern, I'm angry at myself that I expected her to reply differently but she has tried to bait me with 2 separate jabs at me.  Normally I take these but I'm going to leave them alone.  Im going to ignore it in my reply and work on the stuff that effects my son here. 

I got one reasonable thing out of her!  Something I can agree to that is a start. 

It so sad that I'm celebrating being shutdown on two important issues but I have something positive out of this to move forward.  It actually takes me ages to work through the SET stuff to communicate but I can see how it defuses the situation and prevents her going agro.  I'm going to have to work on this alot to ensure she remains stable and I hopefully in time can get more reasoned responses out of her. 

I thought an update was appropriate. ... .   this is a very big thing for our communication where she is addressing an issue.

Thanks all again.