Therapist Feedback About Replacement Daddy

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I let uBPDx know yesterday that I was going to the appointment, and that I would give her any feedback that might help. For now, she cut off contact between replacement daddy (RD) and the kids. She was doing ok with it until she started inviting RD over all of the time, and had him over for dinner. DS4 was acting out badly for the past two weeks towards his mom (and a little towards me). Even DD, just turned 2, is showing passive aggressive behaviors towards her mom. Things seemed to have calmed down. DD hasn't wanted to talk to her mom on the phone the past two days though. She's really clingy to me all of a sudden, as it was for the first few weeks after their mom moved out. We have been sharing custody on a 3-2-2-3 schedule which is working well so far.

Feedback I got on the phone ettiquite is that yes, they are small, but that as parents we shouldn't force them to talk to us, that they should want to talk to us. It's a fine line between teaching them manners, and putting guilt onto them. I don't get concerned if our son is short with me on the phone. I "get" his age. he's easily distractable, too, and I don't perceive him being much different over the phone with either of us. I'm glad I got this feedback, since I'm not really getting much advice from anywhere on this (except for here), and it's worth the $$ to me.

The T told me that at 4, our son doesn't have the language or concepts to put his feelings into words, thus the hitting and kicking his mom under the table, and angry behavior. He said that for his whole life (or at least DD2's), it's been just the four of us at the dinner table, all of a sudden, there is RD sitting in Daddy's chair, altering his stable reality. Doesn't matter that she and RD don't show physical affection to each other in front of the kids. A 4 year old doesn't have the mental capacity to understand boyfriend/girlfriend. All he sees is his stable world suddenly altered. This info, I guess, I can pass on to her.

What I will keep to myself is telling our son that while we let him have choices on some things (what to eat, toys to play with), that other things mommy and daddy set the rules. When to go to bed, brush their teeth, etc. Mommy's choice is to have a boyfriend, and that while it was ok to not like that, that is mommy's right to do that. He said I could even say that I don't like it either, but that it is also not my business whether or not she has a boyfriend. That is her choice. I will probably only have something like this conversation if he starts acting up again.

Our son actually was messing with me the other night at the dinner table, calling me the name of RD, and smiling. The little squirt! I laughed inwardly, because he and I share that off-kilter sense of humor, but I look at him seriously and said, "do not call me that name. I am your daddy, your only one. I take care of you. Bath you. Feed you, hug you when you are sad, or need it. Take care of you when you are sick. Take you to the park, and hiking. Take you to church, sing you songs and say your prayers at night. No one else does that, ok? I'm your only daddy." He was still kind of smiling at me, but I think he got it, as much as a kid barely turned 4 can. The T said, "well, that shows he's creative!"

His advice for her, though she was not there, is to live in her reality. She is a mother first, and while it's fine for her to have a boyfriend (leaving aside this is the homewrecker), that it is a seperate thing from being a mother, at least at this point. Of course we all know this. I may or may not say something like this in a more gentle manner. From my stories, he gets that uBPDx still looks at me as the Parent, and while this is advantageous to me in certain circumstances, to not overdo it. Use this power wisely and infrequently. A BPD is an emotionally immature and egocentric being, with the requisite shallow empathy. This she showed towards our kids "replacing" me as a dad in their eyes only weeks of her leaving our home, if even that long. I know how I would have done it, but the insecure attachment wants to keep him close. Too much for the kids too quickly. She messed that up. Clinger.

She was served through mail with the custody papers this past week. CS package to follow. She called me yesterday to ask me some questions about it. I need to be especially careful until she signs... . I know she does not want to go to court (to be exposed for her inexcusable behavior, though her narc traits keep her from realizing that most people see through the facade, she just can't help herself on fakebook). She could, however, certainly fight me out of court with a lawyer, which would be over the money, not the custody stipulation. All it takes is for one or two enablers to say, "that's not enough money! He makes how much? You need to get more!" Emotionally immature people would certainly key on on the cash, forgetting that me paying about $350/mo for their medical insurance does count towards the support formula. If she wants to play that game, I have no problem cashing out the money I've contributed to our son's college fund if I had to pay for her lawyer. I own my contributions until our son uses it. And yes, I would play that foG card to her if she channels Queen.

[Turkish]

I let uBPDx know yesterday that I was going to the appointment, and that I would give her any feedback that might help. For now, she cut off contact between replacement daddy (RD) and the kids. She was doing ok with it until she started inviting RD over all of the time, and had him over for dinner. DS4 was acting out badly for the past two weeks towards his mom (and a little towards me). Even DD, just turned 2, is showing passive aggressive behaviors towards her mom. Things seemed to have calmed down. DD hasn't wanted to talk to her mom on the phone the past two days though. She's really clingy to me all of a sudden, as it was for the first few weeks after their mom moved out. We have been sharing custody on a 3-2-2-3 schedule which is working well so far.

Feedback I got on the phone ettiquite is that yes, they are small, but that as parents we shouldn't force them to talk to us, that they should want to talk to us. It's a fine line between teaching them manners, and putting guilt onto them. I don't get concerned if our son is short with me on the phone. I "get" his age. he's easily distractable, too, and I don't perceive him being much different over the phone with either of us. I'm glad I got this feedback, since I'm not really getting much advice from anywhere on this (except for here), and it's worth the $$ to me.

The T told me that at 4, our son doesn't have the language or concepts to put his feelings into words, thus the hitting and kicking his mom under the table, and angry behavior. He said that for his whole life (or at least DD2's), it's been just the four of us at the dinner table, all of a sudden, there is RD sitting in Daddy's chair, altering his stable reality. Doesn't matter that she and RD don't show physical affection to each other in front of the kids. A 4 year old doesn't have the mental capacity to understand boyfriend/girlfriend. All he sees is his stable world suddenly altered. This info, I guess, I can pass on to her.

What I will keep to myself is telling our son that while we let him have choices on some things (what to eat, toys to play with), that other things mommy and daddy set the rules. When to go to bed, brush their teeth, etc. Mommy's choice is to have a boyfriend, and that while it was ok to not like that, that is mommy's right to do that. He said I could even say that I don't like it either, but that it is also not my business whether or not she has a boyfriend. That is her choice. I will probably only have something like this conversation if he starts acting up again.

Our son actually was messing with me the other night at the dinner table, calling me the name of RD, and smiling. The little squirt! I laughed inwardly, because he and I share that off-kilter sense of humor, but I look at him seriously and said, "do not call me that name. I am your daddy, your only one. I take care of you. Bath you. Feed you, hug you when you are sad, or need it. Take care of you when you are sick. Take you to the park, and hiking. Take you to church, sing you songs and say your prayers at night. No one else does that, ok? I'm your only daddy." He was still kind of smiling at me, but I think he got it, as much as a kid barely turned 4 can. The T said, "well, that shows he's creative!"

His advice for her, though she was not there, is to live in her reality. She is a mother first, and while it's fine for her to have a boyfriend (leaving aside this is the homewrecker), that it is a seperate thing from being a mother, at least at this point. Of course we all know this. I may or may not say something like this in a more gentle manner. From my stories, he gets that uBPDx still looks at me as the Parent, and while this is advantageous to me in certain circumstances, to not overdo it. Use this power wisely and infrequently. A BPD is an emotionally immature and egocentric being, with the requisite shallow empathy. This she showed towards our kids "replacing" me as a dad in their eyes only weeks of her leaving our home, if even that long. I know how I would have done it, but the insecure attachment wants to keep him close. Too much for the kids too quickly. She messed that up. Clinger.

She was served through mail with the custody papers this past week. CS package to follow. She called me yesterday to ask me some questions about it. I need to be especially careful until she signs... . I know she does not want to go to court (to be exposed for her inexcusable behavior, though her narc traits keep her from realizing that most people see through the facade, she just can't help herself on fakebook). She could, however, certainly fight me out of court with a lawyer, which would be over the money, not the custody stipulation. All it takes is for one or two enablers to say, "that's not enough money! He makes how much? You need to get more!" Emotionally immature people would certainly key on on the cash, forgetting that me paying about $350/mo for their medical insurance does count towards the support formula. If she wants to play that game, I have no problem cashing out the money I've contributed to our son's college fund if I had to pay for her lawyer. I own my contributions until our son uses it. And yes, I would play that foG card to her if she channels Queen.

[Turkish]

This isn't good. For the first time, DS4 didn't want to talk to me tonight on the phone. His mom said he started acting out. I asked if he had been, or if it started when I called. She said it was when I called (it was a 3 min conversation with him and her, I could hear him acting out in the background). We had a good evening yesterday and the kids were fine this morning. I told her we may need to rethink the nightly calls (which I would be fine with, she has the object constancy issues). I said maybe I would call earlier in the day, and she said they usually asked to call me anyway. This goes back to what the T said, that the kids should want to talk, to not make them feel obligated. Its hard to get with DD just turned 2, but her language skills are getting better. Perhaps I am also guilty of assuming they need to talk to us; whereas, the nightly calls are more for us.

[Matt]

What do you mean, "narc traits"?

[Turkish]

What do you mean, "narc traits"?

Narcissistic.  24 year old guy. Still an undergrad. Doesn't use his real name, but a childish nickname. Social media handles celebrating violent tendencies on the football field (bone crushing, I won't post the rxact variations of this due to google search). I checked his FB page exactly once back in Nov. when I was briefly obsessed with him, and it looked like the page of an odd 13 year old girl. "God is Love" pictures of love birds, Biblical quites about love. A pic of him looking holy. Quite a juxaposition from the other social media handles. My Ex told me bit about him back in Oct when I was trying to work it out. That he read the Bible, was spiritual. My friend, still friends with her on FB (I told him to not tell me anything unless he saw something odd with the kids, like the pic of all four of them she posted), thinks it weird he posts all of this religious stuff.

I heard something also from my boss through his son who briefly worked downtown as a bouncer  (that's how she met him), thought he knew the guy and thought he was a fake tough guy. To be crude, the son thought the guy was a wussy (but he used the p word, the son was actually on the streets for a while before he got to a better place, so he's the real deal. Nice kid, but dXd bi polar, treated and much better now).

The other guy is also adopted, like me, and I warned her back in nov. that adoptees tend to lean more towards dysfunction than not. I know because we hung out with enough other adoptive families when I was a kid,.and there are a lot of sad stories.

[Matt]

My reactions, for whatever they're worth... .

* Probably best to communicate less with your ex, and stick to simple information about the kids.  Don't feel the need to pass on information from the therapist - it's not likely to do any good and it keeps you engaged with your ex.  Minimize discussion of her boyfriend unless you have very solid reason to believe he is a danger to the kids.

* If phone calls happen, great.  Make them fun.  But don't expect too much.  With no eye-contact, some kids are completely uninterested in talking on the phone - my S15 was like that til he was at least 10.  Doesn't mean they don't love you or that you're doing anything wrong.  It just means that you're not where they are and they can't see you so they don't connect with you.  Let it be - it's not a problem.

* When the kids are with you, focus on them - their immediate needs like food and stimulation, and their longer-term needs like emotional support.  Think about what each kid needs and how you can provide that.  Minimize any focus on their mom or her boyfriend - focus on the kids and make your time with them count.

[Turkish]

Thanks Matt. I have a picture of her and DD on my phone as a contact picture. The kids talk to it as if she is there.

I texted her 3 hours ago asking how our son was doing. No answer. I know my T would say "stop rescuing her and let her deal with the consequences of her decisions." What did I expect? Though this is lower conflict than the stories of many members here, I forget that she exhibited 8/9 BD traits, and my Rescuer tendencies take over, unhealthily, due to concern over our kids.

It will be so much better when the custody and CS is signed and filed, hopefully within the next month. I can etect stronger boundaries.

[Turkish]

I texted her earlier in the day, telling her I wouldn't call them tonight. Emotionally tough for me. But since S4 started acting out against me on the phone last night for the first time, its better she and they focus on them. She will bring them to church tomorrow, I'll see how it goes... .

[mywifecrazy]

It will be so much better when the custody and CS is signed and filed, hopefully within the next month. I can etect stronger boundaries.

I agree with Matt's advice AFTER you get you get your CUSTODY settlement and Property settlement finalized. Keep doing what you're doing to keep her placated! I'm sure other people are in her ear telling her to Stick it to You. If you put up firm boundaries now she will act like a spoiled child and use the pending settlement to get back at you. Suck it up for now and look at the BIG PICTURE. You and especially your kids need you to get the most favorable Custody settlement you can. You don't want to do anything to get a negative reaction from her. You don't want to win a battle only to lose the war!

I had to eat ___ for 6 months but it worked out in the end for me. I have primary custody of my kids... . THANK GOD! I still have to deal with her LUNACY with her and her new r/s(rescuer) living across the street but at least I have the kids which is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to me.

I follow a lot of your post Turkish. You're a good man and Father. You're in my prayers brother! Keep being a good dad. Your kids NEED you!

[Turkish]

It will be so much better when the custody and CS is signed and filed, hopefully within the next month. I can etect stronger boundaries.

I agree with Matt's advice AFTER you get you get your CUSTODY settlement and Property settlement finalized. Keep doing what you're doing to keep her placated! I'm sure other people are in her ear telling her to Stick it to You. If you put up firm boundaries now she will act like a spoiled child and use the pending settlement to get back at you. Suck it up for now and look at the BIG PICTURE. You and especially your kids need you to get the most favorable Custody settlement you can. You don't want to do anything to get a negative reaction from her. You don't want to win a battle only to lose the war!

I had to eat ___ for 6 months but it worked out in the end for me. I have primary custody of my kids... . THANK GOD! I still have to deal with her LUNACY with her and her new r/s(rescuer) living across the street but at least I have the kids which is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to me.

I follow a lot of your post Turkish. You're a good man and Father. You're in my prayers brother! Keep being a good dad. Your kids NEED you!

Thank you myc. No property since we were not married, and I got us financially unbound back in October (a $25K car loan), and had her sign the pink slip to another vehicle whose title she was on. Gave her a few thousand in severance money (she refused to leave otherwise) to help set up her new place.

So the only thing is the custody. I debated fighting for majority time, but I think it would have been a hard fight I may not have won, since the only documentation of her neglect of the children comes from a journal of mine. She's stable now with her boyfriend, and that stability works in my favor, and for the children, despite her messing with the kids heads' by moving him too close, too quickly (BPD is an attachment disorder... . she's following the same script as always, despite what she thinks on the surface).

She brought the kids to church today and it was fine. We talked schools a bit, the kids were very happy to see me. They didn't ask to call last night, though she said our daughter awoke at 3AM and cried out "daddy!" That's something she'll have to deal with.

I only shared one thing my T said which was about phone etiquette, and to not guilt the kids into talking to either parent if they didn't want to. uBPDx then said that a co-worker with a background in psychology admonished her for calling us twice a day on the weekends, saying, "that's their time with their dad, you should leave them be!" Sometimes, my Ex needs to hear these Parent opinions, otherwise she's adrift on thinking she knows what's best. I'm glad she shared that with me.

She asked again about the child support, and asked what the cash per month would be. It seems pretty low, but then I configured everything on my end to give her as little as possible (dropping my pre-tax retirement contributions by over $10k/yr, to lower my net income). I did reiterate to her that the money I pay for the kids' health and dental insurance counts towards support (like $350/mo), so it does become a bit closer to the online calculator that she was originally going by. I reiterated this in case she shared what the money would be, and some enablers started squawking in her ear that she should fight me for more. All in all, a productive morning, and the most important thing is that the kids seemed better.

She did make one comment about doing something for the kids yesterday, and that "I wasn't a bad mom, for once."

You see... . I know she feels immense guilt and shame, and while that is neither mine nor the kids' fault, I don't have to pile on it. It would be like beating up a 3 year old. That's why I am as detached and as cool as I can be when I have to interact with her. Keep her stable, the storms will come later, and by then we will all be protected legally, and the kids hopefully in a better place. I will never stop journaling and documenting anything I can though.