Separating the Good from the Bad

[willy45]

Do you all have any tips on how to stop separating the good from the bad. I think I'm struggling here because when I was with her, I split her into two separate people. This good person who was the best thing ever and this bad person, who was totally abusive. It took me a while to figure out they were the same person and to stop believing her that it was my fault that she would rage at me and yell at me. But I still have such a hard time truly believing it. My T said I had to split her in my mind in order to be with her for so long and that was a residual impact. Do any of you have any tips on how to bring the good and the bad together? I find this really hard. I've never had to do this before. So strange... .

[AwakenedOne]

How to not separate the good and the bad? Maybe instead rate and then add together and total? Either this is a good idea or so stupid that it's funny. You decide.

Maybe instead add both of them together and get a total. Such as:

Scale Points

1  to  10  Good parts

-1 to -10 Bad parts

Ok, so my ex gets a 3 Good and a -9 Bad. So I end up with -6 Total. Anything below zero means this person isn't good for me and I should stay away.

This probably makes no sense. I was not good in math at school. Just tried to answer your question still.

If this relationship numbering system I just created catches on world-wide remember it was my idea. This could lead to a major book deal and then a paid guest speaker position at convention centers would follow next of course. 

AO

[Turkish]

I found something my uBPDx wrote in her journal which she left in my house after she moved out. It was pros about me on one side, contrasted with cons about me on the other side.

I found it interesting because I don't split people like that, though I got what she was doing. Can you write a similar list? Maybe it would help to see it on paper.

[trappedinlove]

Willie,

The one tip I can give to help accept the paradox of the extreme good and bad in the same person is to externalize their behavior.  That is there is them and there is their behavior which can be either good or bad but it's just a reflection of different parts of their personality it is not their one essence.

I had to deal with that with my D18 that has some BPD traits and went through terrible adolescence.

In her rage she really hurt both herself and us, her parents, and it was very difficult for me to see her as one person with the parts I love and the dark parts that came our of nowhere.

The key to her recovery was to externalize her behavior so she could separate her identify from her deeds and start working on herself to change.  This way she could turn against her own daemons and cooperate with us and this helped immensely.

Just one question, on your side of the story... . To me the way you describe the extreme feelings about your ex, it seems like a projection to FOO issues, any clue?

[willy45]

Yeah. That's a good point about the FOO issues. I'm certainly good at discounting the bad. The strange thing is that my rs was mostly bad. But I find it really easy to fall into the blame she says rather than looking at the behavior. I guess that's how I stayed so long and why I'm having such a hard time accepting that I made the right choice in leaving and the right choice in maintaining NC despite her constantly reaching out to me.

[tango1492]

I have a hard time with this too. My uBPD ex boyfriend was truly wonderful in some ways. He was generous, he was very good with my son, etc.

Yet he was also abusive, push/pull, extremely jealous, yelled at me and said pretty hateful things, was a high functioning alcoholic, etc.

He raised the bar for me regarding the good things he had to offer. Yet, I couldn't deal with the other issues he had. The bad ultimately outweighed the good.

I still pine badly for the good-- as we had amazing chemistry and I believe we did truly love one another in spite of the issues. It just got to the point of arguing every single day and I could not have that around my son.

I wish I had some advice... . as really am stuck missing the good.

[Johnny Alias]

Hmmmmmm... .

Not sure on this.  Its so hard.  For me the truly bad stuff came out when she was drunk which was fairly often.  Yelling at me in front of other people, raging on me at home, throwing things... . but then she also tended to get VERY angry when I tried to talk with her regarding ANYTHING involving responsibility in her life like paying parking tickets, her taxes, doing her job, whatever... . it just overwhelmed her and she considered it an attack... .

Anyone can have a relationship with a BPD... . but a long term one... . that's another story.  You pretty much need to give up your dreams, identity, self respect, etc.  Thats my opinion... .

Make a list of all the negative things she used to do... . do it quick before you forget.  Add onto it as you remember because I guarantee there is stuff your mind blocked out.  Then compare it to the good and realize the bad stuff continues and tends to get worse and worse as time goes on.  The more comfortable they get the less they attempt to curb behavior they KNOW people around them hate. 

I saw mine at a party on saturday.  I gave her a hug and shook hands with her new fiance.  Is that all peaches and cream?  NO!  They fight like crazy.  She continues to drink a LOT, fights and screams at friends (always needs an enemy), has gotten hospitalized a few times for substance abuse, and she's still 100K in debt... . which I'm not even sure he fully realizes.  All the bad stuff is still there.  She didn't get therapy, can't acknowledge how much she hurts others, can't apologize, can't hold down a job, can't help but attack others. 

And yes... . on some level I still miss her.  When it was good it was heaven but when it was bad it was HELL. 

You are truly talking about people who are angels and devils and yet are the same person... . but the devil will become more and more pronounced as time goes on unless therapy happpens and even then it HAS to be because they want it... . or they just find someone else to enable their behavior.

Hang in there. 

[myself]

Willy, you may be able to do this, to see her as both good and bad, the whole package, if you look at yourself that way. You have things about yourself that you are proud of, feel good about, and mistakes you've made, people you've hurt (these are just basic examples). Are YOU two people? If you can see yourself as both good and bad, and everything in between, then you can see your child like that, your sister, your friend, your neighbor. Eventually it should come around to being able to see your ex that way, too. Please believe, it's very possible to get there.

[Emelie Emelie]

I got the same advice from my T.  He said you talk about him as if he's two different people.  You see him as if he's two different people.  It is challenging to merge them together in my mind.  Especially as he is 90% "the good one".  I guess it doesn't matter as the 10% (good to me one) went from loving me to hating in about a week.  I am still reeling from that.  It happened so fast. 

[willy45]

Yeah. I have no problem doing that with others. Seeing the good and bad. Splitting is not an issue for me. Only with my ex. I think it is because she was two people, or more. She would go from loving and normal to deranged and needy in the flash of an eye. I think I had to split her because she was split. I ignored the bad and the weird all the time, waiting for the good to reappear. Believe me, I don't do this with myself or anyone else. Maybe the answer lies in the mind f'ing abuse and blame and projection. All that stuff has me really stuck.

[Turkish]

I got the same advice from my T.  He said you talk about him as if he's two different people.  You see him as if he's two different people.  It is challenging to merge them together in my mind.  Especially as he is 90% "the good one".  I guess it doesn't matter as the 10% (good to me one) went from loving me to hating in about a week.  I am still reeling from that.  It happened so fast. 

This is interesting. Do you have to merge them together, or just accept that is the way he (or any of our Exes) are? My T used to talk about my uBPDx being dis-integrated, after I explained many stories, and talked about her period of dissociation from August-December, where it was literally like living with a different person I had not known or experienced in 6 years. He kept saying "she is dis-integrated, compartmentalized" in order to get me to accept the truth of the situation. Near the end, he stressed that my anger and frustration was bourne of me expecting her to be someone she was not, instead of accepting her for who she was, disorder and all.

[Lion Fire]

When my ex was good she was unbelievably good. That is, it was too good to be true at times and consisted mainly of words and promises that fed what I now know was my low self esteem. She was fun and interesting to be around and very sexy. Again, I now understand that this was only part of her and it was her "best behaviour" mask. The charm offensive and grooming wore off as I succumbed to her will. This was then replaced by her other side... . the jealous, controlling, manipulating, demanding, moody, abusive and cruel self. The change was gradual at first with sporadic outbursts then became a rapid series of brutal waves with very short intervals.

I think it is natural to split especially being in such a relationship. For me, my BPDexgf had two very distinctive sides and there was very little in the middle. She was either all good or dreadfully nasty. When the bad far outweighed the good and I had taken enough beatings, I chose the time to get out. Since I made that decision, her darkness has been overwhelming at times. I have never experienced such venom and malice in a human being.

This is a serious disorder, a frightening disease that eventually destroys relationships and leaves a world of destruction.

I make sure I take stock of the bad whenever I get into nostalgic moods about the good times.

It is definitely black and white for me now but I'm sure that will mellow as time and distance heals me.

[Pecator]

This is exactly where I am at willy,

It is a big step towards detachment. One I am finding hard to make. I have been stuck for weeks

I posted (some weeks back) about the mirroring I could see in my uBPDex. It led to me stop splitting her into Good and Bad. Here are the steps I had

Observation of her mirroring.

In the three relationships I know a bit about (the one previous to me, ours, my replacement), all carried very different values around friendship. The previous partner was very jealous and not social. She split and lost almost all her friends. "They didn't understand that my partner comes first," she told me. I am very social and not the least bit jealous. We spent a lot of time with friendships she was able to rekindle and she even developed close friendships to men (never before). My replacement is again very jealous. While not nonsocial, he does not like her friends, especially one close male friend. The only friend she spends time with is a woman (whom she told me she never liked because she runs around behind her husband's back) and the male friend. "I am glad [replacement] is a workaholic cause I need time out with the girls," she told a friend. She now lies to my replacement so she can go out drinking and dancing with those two.


Clearly, our relationship was the healthiest, right?


Here comes the step

As I put the focus back on myself, I had to face the narcissism of the last statement. Never once did I believe she sat around wishing I was like the previous one. "Your perfect because we have both." Only my arrogance can lead me to believe that she is sitting around with my replacement wishing he was more like me (able to like her friends and partake in a social life). He's perfect now because he allows for time to spend with her new found passion for "Girl's Night Out."

None of this is conscience. She is, sadly, a little chameleon adapting to what ever situation is currently blocking her pain. She was clearly mirroring my value around friendship as she was/is mirroring the other two. None of these are healthier than the others, because none of them were her. She was mirroring the whole time.

Next Step (a big one)

Still keeping the focus on me, I began to look at all the good things we had together. Starting with the ones whose simple recollection can bring me to tears. These are the things I miss so much they cause deep anxiety fearing their loss. First thing I noticed is that they made me cry like a baby. Litterally!

I noticed that my grief was coming from a deep young place.

I missed holding her at night. I missed holding her at night. I missed "pinching her little cheeks." I missed her shaving my head. I missed her telling me, "You get such a little-boy look whenever I do something extra special for you."

Clearly these are FOO issues. She picked up on them.

Even less psych-linked memories: We counted as our best times dancing together. Neither previous or replacement dance. We loved laying together with the kids watching movies. Previous may have, but workaholic replacement considers this wasteful time. We spent holidays in the Caribbean and were making plans to retire somewhere near a beach. "All I want is to be near enough to the ocean that I can go there everyday," she told me. The replacement has a phobia around water.


In my head, I am beginning to see (my heart is still far behind) that there really were no "good," "bad," "better," "worse." They are all just BPD. It is clear in the bad times. However, the good times come from her ability to mirror and other things pwBPD are good at. I am sure she spoke of her hopes, dreams, plans and values as convincingly with previous and replacement as she did with me. There is no way of knowing what is "truer" or "healthier" for her. I don't believe she consciously knows. She sadly is lost in a quest to alleviate her pain. She will change anything to accomplish that.

The good as well as the bad are really the by-products of BPD and the issues we bring into the relationship.

Once I fully embrace that I know I will be free. Unfortunately, my heart still fearfully says, "Free for what?"

[Cimbaruns]

Willy45

I find this to ring true for me as well. I thought about what you said... . the separating the good and bad while with them... . sort of like trying to justify that the r/s is okay in a way... . or that maybe it is you and your the reason that things are so chaotic!

I have been doing a lot of thinking about the "good and bad" ... . Even as I try and move ahead(it's been 4 months of NC)and it's extremely draining... . but at times I just find myself doing it... . almost as if I'm trying to justify why any of this EVER came to be... . this crazy life that I lived for 4+ years.

I'm almost looking at it as if the HEART is the good... . and the HEAD  is the bad... .

In trying to detatch I find that as much as I see the r/s as over... . my heart still is tugged... and almost always when thinking of all of the GOOD times we shared!

This seems like and emotional tug of war... . so draining ... . so hard to ever see a definitive outcome... .

I have much healing to do... . both in my head ... . and certainly with my heart... .

[love4meNOTu]

Willy I hope this thread helps you as much as it helped me, I posted it in January.

L


Dealing with Relationship Partners (heterosexual, gay, lesbian) with BPD  / [L3] Leaving: Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship  / Splitting for non's - you have to stop doing it to get better

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