Need advice- Thin Line between setting boundaries and becoming a doormat

[Octobersonya]

Hi all,

I'm looking to get some feedback for those who have been successful in setting boundaries.

I love my husband and want our relationship to work. Unfortunately, like most of you, I feel very frustrated at times which makes me doubt my desire to make our marriage last 'till death do us apart'.

One of the reasons why I love my husband so much is because he does not get angry (unless he feels attacked) he is very sensitive about hurting others feelings (unless he feels he is being attacked). We don't get into fights, at least loud and scary ones. I can talk to him about anything except if it involves him. If my concern is about him, he right away becomes defensive and over reacts to the point that makes me want to pull my hair out. Things he says are very hurtful and frustrating. Makes me think "all this hatred towards me just because I asked how the job market was?".

Because I'm afraid of his over reaction when something bothers me I literally reword what I want to say in my head several times before saying it to him. Even then he acts and responds as if I said "you suck, you are an awful husband and you are irresponsible". When all I said was "it's garbage day". Walking on egg shells trying not to hurt his feelings is SO hard. I end up being quiet, and when he asks why I am quiet I tell him 'I'm fine' knowing full well that if I told him why he is going to turn it into something it is not.

My husband is a very high functions individual. His last job was practice director in IT, he was let go because (I believe) of his uBPD. Of course he does not believe so, it's always someone else's fault.

I am so afraid of his reaction that instead of talking to him if something is REALLY bothering me I send him an email. My emails have a disclaimer that I'm not accusing him of anything, I'm concerned about something and need his help.  Yet his reply (usually two pages long) describes how it's all my fault, I'm an awful person, I'm the reason why he doesn't do what normal people do (I'm a recovered alcoholic sober two years). They are very hurtful things, I don't control him and I don't stop him from doing what normal people do. When he was working he made it very clear that he does not want any turmoil in the house because he has to focus on his job (he worked 20 hours a day) so I did my best to provide that stability. He got let go from that job last month, and I really want to tell him that we need financial stability because it's not just him and I, we have an 18mo son. He spends 5-6 hours gardening everyday yet I can't or don't have the courage to ask him to look for a job because of his reactions.

I'll stop my rant here. Any suggestions from those who have been successful in setting boundaries would be appreciated. I don't like feeling like a doormat, and I feel like I am enabling him.

Thank you in advance! 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Haye]

Oh my god. It feels you are in a difficult spot there. I wish I had tons of excellent advice to give but I'm afraid I can't think anything else except that you two need outside help with your situation. Your son is still very young, he needs a lot of attention and time and yes, financial stability as well. Your spouse exploding on even the most innocent and neutral sentences, well that is very demanding. yes, it's good to able to cope with some BPD stuff but I think you also need to keep yourself protected, specially because of your son.

The boundaries yes.

I'm not sure about the high functioning. Of course it is not my place to say nor evaluate, I'm not there, but loosing a job and spending time gardening. Hm. Gardening is good and therapeutic... . something one can do to hide deppression or other ways of not being truly able to go through more demanding stuff (like workhunt)? As to how to get a him to meet someone... . I don't know.

I've written elsewhere how me standing up for my boundaries and (to make a very long & complicated story short) throwing my SO out tore him apart. In the big picture it was a good thing, he had to face his situation, and actually saw it from my point of view, went to get help etc etc. Now things are better-than-ever between us two, but to be honest, he was really close to ending his life in the worst part of his turmoil (basically he understood all the pain he actions had caused to other people, threw him off balance really bad).

[Octobersonya]

Hey Haye 

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I honestly thought that letting go from his last job would be a Rock bottom for him. It was a HUGE blow to his Ego, it actually broke my heart to imagine how hurt he must feel. He LOVED that job, worked very hard at it, was very proud of it. To the point that when his manager told him about meeting the following week my husband started to stress because he does not like surprises, he imagined every scenario EXCEPT being let go. He actually talked to me about it and how he will handle all the different scenarios and then said "I know they are not going to fire me, I am too valuable for them to lose". When he told me after the meeting that they let him go I felt so bad and told him I'm not worried and I know he will take care of his family. Then I watched him go through the typical phases of 'Shock' 'Anger' 'Planning to retaliate' and now ':)epression'. I have been listening watching supporting him the entire time. And now I'm wondering if I shouldn't have been so supportive and validate him all the time.

I read a couple of success stories and majority of them were successful because the NonBPD ended relationship or gave an ultimatum. Last time I did that my husband threatened and faked a suicide attempt (over the phone because he was traveling for work). We don't talk about that anymore obviously, can't imagine his reaction if I brought it up. I am starting to believe that maybe the Rock bottom for him would me moving out. It scares the crap out of me because I have witnessed his behavior (utter hatred and retaliation) when his ex's left him.

To the world that he interacts with, he makes everything sounds so good, even envious! His need to show off grandiosity is so confusing to me.

I want to be continue being compassionate and understanding but also need the courage to stand up for what I believe in.

Thanks for listening

[an0ught]

Hi Octobersonya ,

getting over a job loss is difficult when a job was important. There is a certain amount of grieving involved.(!) I would suggest you go over to the Leaving Board and check out the LESSONS there (differnt to staying) at the top - they describe the detachment process through which your H needs to go.

This is a lot about helping him regulating his emotions related to his job loss and a lot less about boundaries. Communicating emotionally charged topics with a pwBPD needs skills. Read up on validation first to get a solid understanding of how to express negative emotions. Then dive into learning SET which you will need to address the important questions that need addressing.

Possible emotions to validate are: Fear, uncertainty, insecurity, upset, unfair treatment, unclear what to do, obligation to be strong, shame,... .

[Octobersonya]

Hi an0ught,

Thank you so much for your suggestion. I would have never thought to read posts in the 'Leaving' message board since I don't want to leave. I'm wondering why those posts (communication techniques) aren't listed on this board for those who want to stay.

Thanks again, I appreciate it

 

[bpbreakout]

I've been through a job loss and it can be difficult and rewarding at the same time.

I'm married to BPDw and I made a point of keeping any negative feelings to myself & act upbeat all the time as she can be extremely negative and anxious and very much what you don't need at a time like that however understandable it was from BPDw's perspective.

I'm not sure how things are where you are but where I am a senior role like that could involve 3-6 months pay and several months outplacement counselling to get help finding your next role. This involves a lot of coaching, personality profiling, research, phone calls, cv's and networking involved, it's a full time job in itself and actually it was a lot of fun & I learned and confirmed a lot about myself. I'm not sure what your circumstances are but some down time gardening could be really good for a while though obviously not forever. I also really enjoyed spending some time with the kids and doing the school run and a few things around the house and so on as well as studying and spending 3-4 a day on the job hunt.

If you are working 20 hours a day for a long period of time I would have thought it difficult for anyone to be effective in their job whatever personality traits are involved though from his point of view I can imagine he would feel seriously let down after putting in all that work especially with BPD tendancies.No doubt every time you raise the subject of finding a job it will be interpreted as nagging.

There is a book called What Colour is Your Parachute which would be on Amazon. It gives a lot of practical advice on how to deal with this situation.

[an0ught]

Hi Octobersonya,

Thank you so much for your suggestion. I would have never thought to read posts in the 'Leaving' message board since I don't want to leave. I'm wondering why those posts (communication techniques) aren't listed on this board for those who want to stay.

the leaving board focuses on

 - detaching

 - in LESSONS there is also complementary material e.g. basic communication.

the staying board focuses

 - communication skills basic to fairly advanced

 - detaching to a limited degree / reestablishing respect through boundaries

 - self care in a stressful environment

The communities in both boards work towards different goals and a lot what goes on in one board can be triggering to members of the other board. However reading the lessons on the leaving board may be helpful for you to understand some aspects of the job loss. PwBPD similar to co-dependent people lack skills in the attachment area and the Leaving Board LESSONS focus on the detachment process.  I don't recommend you post on the leaving board or read too much of the regular posts. When it comes to Support and communication you will be way better off on the Staying Board.

[Stalwart]

A job loss to a man (although it sounds sexist it isn't, it's reality) can be devestating, especially if that person percieved themselves as being a good provider and most men measure themselves by that scale. It can really affect an ego and trigger all the angers at the world and fears in the future that most men can try and live with while going through the greiving process of the loss.

The trick to it is not to fall too far into the cesspool of self-despair, the deeper you fall the harder it is to climb out and kickstart the job search and subsequesnt success of getting a job. It's a tricky balance and I feel for both you and your husband going through that.

Positive is the best way to stay. Reminding him of how well he did at his job, how capable he is and encouraging is better than "How's the job market today". Simply because you know he probably didn't even entertain the idea of looking for a job that day. I don't know if he's on some type of social assistance like IE as a result of the job loss but that will only in the long run make it worse because he feels that income is 'pulling his weight'. It ususally doesn't. Does he have family that can help encourage him along?

I don't know if he's actively looked or looking but encouraging self-employment of some type until an opportunity comes along to supplement income might also be an option. It helps with the self-esteem and bringing interest back into if you can bring in some extra bucks and see that you're still worthy at your work. It's also better to be out there and active trying to do something and networking with others than falling on the couch in solitude with the converter as well. It's encouraging if you're successful at it.  It's a real difficult situation you're in and I hope you find a way to resolve it because like I said it's a tough situation for him to deal with and a slippery slope if he really loses his balance.

If I might venture into a deeper realm try and watch your sex life. It's usually affected really badly by a job loss for a man and not feeling worthy in that regard either. Just saying. Putting the job loss aside when you're in the bedroom and encouraging him in that way to feel good about himself will go along way in self-esteem and boosting him up. Sorry, touchy subject, but that's been my experience that this can really suffer and only worsens his outlook on everything about himself. It's the provider thing coming back to bite him in the butt.

Just suggestions because I know it's a tough place for him and you.

[willtimeheal]

I don't know what it is like to lose a job or to have BPD. I do know what it is like to be in a relationship with a BPD. I know the eggshell feeling. The holding on to your emotions so the BPD doesn't explode. I know the blame game and how everything is your fault and not theirs. How to not say anything because you don't want to risk upsetting them. I lived like this for a long long time. There gets a to a point where you can no longer live like that no matter how much you love a person.  Setting boundaries doesn't always have to do with the other person. What I realized was there was a reason why I let this person treat me this way. Through therapy and working on me I set the standard on how I demanded to be treated... . That became my boundaries.  There is a reason why you allow yourself to be treated like this. Saying his has BPD is a "cover"  if anyone else ever treated you like this you would never put up with it. Go to therapy for yourself. Figure out why you step around it with him. Learn to stand up for yourself. Take a break from the relationship for a bit to work on you. That was the best thing I ever did for myself. My bPD are together and the BPD would never think to talk down to me blame me or cross a boundary with me anymore. I am stronger and changed.

[Octobersonya]

I'm not sure how things are where you are but where I am a senior role like that could involve 3-6 months pay and several months outplacement counselling to get help finding your next role. This involves a lot of coaching, personality profiling, research, phone calls, cv's and networking involved, it's a full time job in itself and actually it was a lot of fun & I learned and confirmed a lot about myself. I'm not sure what your circumstances are but some down time gardening could be really good for a while though obviously not forever. I also really enjoyed spending some time with the kids and doing the school run and a few things around the house and so on as well as studying and spending 3-4 a day on the job hunt.

If you are working 20 hours a day for a long period of time I would have thought it difficult for anyone to be effective in their job whatever personality traits are involved though from his point of view I can imagine he would feel seriously let down after putting in all that work especially with BPD tendancies.No doubt every time you raise the subject of finding a job it will be interpreted as nagging.

That is my worry. It takes a long time and effort to get a senior position, jobs like that (or any other for that matter) don't come to you, you have to search for them. Unfortunately there hasn't been  any search only gardening. Although I'm grateful to be able to spend time with my husband and watch him play with out son I'm worried we may not have a roof over our head pretty soon. I can go back to work as IT Consultant but that requires traveling and I know for certain that won't fly with my h. I thought about mentioning this possibilityt o him in hopes that he would start searching but somehow tricking/planning for a certain response didn't seem honest.

I agree about 20 hour work day being too much, but again, that's something I could not control. In short, giving him my opinion about anything involving him triggers his mood swings and silent treatment, unless I am validating.

I prefer silent treatment over anger, yelling screaming and name calling.

Thanks for suggesting the book on Amazon I will certainly check it out

[Octobersonya]

A job loss to a man (although it sounds sexist it isn't, it's reality) can be devestating, especially if that person percieved themselves as being a good provider and most men measure themselves by that scale. It can really affect an ego and trigger all the angers at the world and fears in the future that most men can try and live with while going through the greiving process of the loss.

Positive is the best way to stay. Reminding him of how well he did at his job, how capable he is and encouraging is better than "How's the job market today". Simply because you know he probably didn't even entertain the idea of looking for a job that day. I don't know if he's on some type of social assistance like IE as a result of the job loss but that will only in the long run make it worse because he feels that income is 'pulling his weight'. It ususally doesn't. Does he have family that can help encourage him along?

I don't know if he's actively looked or looking but encouraging self-employment of some type until an opportunity comes along to supplement income might also be an option. It helps with the self-esteem and bringing interest back into if you can bring in some extra bucks and see that you're still worthy at your work. It's also better to be out there and active trying to do something and networking with others than falling on the couch in solitude with the converter as well. It's encouraging if you're successful at it.  It's a real difficult situation you're in and I hope you find a way to resolve it because like I said it's a tough situation for him to deal with and a slippery slope if he really loses his balance.

If I might venture into a deeper realm try and watch your sex life. It's usually affected really badly by a job loss for a man and not feeling worthy in that regard either. Just saying. Putting the job loss aside when you're in the bedroom and encouraging him in that way to feel good about himself will go along way in self-esteem and boosting him up. Sorry, touchy subject, but that's been my experience that this can really suffer and only worsens his outlook on everything about himself. It's the provider thing coming back to bite him in the butt.

Just suggestions because I know it's a tough place for him and you.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post.

His ego is smashed and I feel his pain and hurt over it, specially because he took pride in that job. Unfortunately that pride got in his own way. I feel helpless, all I can do is let him know he is good at what he does and he is a good provider.

As far as family, he is not close to anyone in his family. His mom does not talk to him (not clear on that story) his two sisters also rarely talk to him. His daughter moved out ands topped talking to him over a year ago (he blames me and his ex wife for that but my step daughter who I was very close to said she is not ok with her dad lying and manipulating and chose not to be around it). My h does not have any friends, he also blames that on me. So myself and our son are the only ones he has right now.

It breaks my heart to see him like that but he won't get help. He lacks the capacity to be honest with himself. I have a problem and needed to get help, I am a recovered alcoholic, active in AA I have a sponsor, I go to meetings, I chair meetings and sponsor others who are new to recovery. It's hard work but so worth it. I am at peace, I am spiritual and re-established my relationship with God. I wish and I pray that my husband finds peace and serenity, I cannot imagine what goes on in his mind.

Your last suggestion is a good one, no need to apologize. My husband and I have excellent chemistry and not impact. That is one thing that brings us very close. However, you bring up a great point... . I will work on initiating instead of him always initiating. Thanks  

[Octobersonya]

I don't know what it is like to lose a job or to have BPD. I do know what it is like to be in a relationship with a BPD. I know the eggshell feeling. The holding on to your emotions so the BPD doesn't explode. I know the blame game and how everything is your fault and not theirs. How to not say anything because you don't want to risk upsetting them. I lived like this for a long long time. There gets a to a point where you can no longer live like that no matter how much you love a person.  Setting boundaries doesn't always have to do with the other person. What I realized was there was a reason why I let this person treat me this way. Through therapy and working on me I set the standard on how I demanded to be treated... . That became my boundaries.  There is a reason why you allow yourself to be treated like this. Saying his has BPD is a "cover"  if anyone else ever treated you like this you would never put up with it. Go to therapy for yourself. Figure out why you step around it with him. Learn to stand up for yourself. Take a break from the relationship for a bit to work on you. That was the best thing I ever did for myself. My bPD are together and the BPD would never think to talk down to me blame me or cross a boundary with me anymore. I am stronger and changed.

Yes! Yes and Yes! You are so very accurate in what you wrote! Thank you for being so straight forward. I HAVE to work on myself! I HAVE to be stronger and not let the fear of upsetting him keep things (important) to myself.  As far as taking a break, I'm not sure how to do that, we have an 18month old (beautiful, healthy charming blessing from God) son. But I will keep that in mind.

Thank you so my for your straight forward response, I appreciate it!

[Octobersonya]

Hi Octobersonya,

Thank you so much for your suggestion. I would have never thought to read posts in the 'Leaving' message board since I don't want to leave. I'm wondering why those posts (communication techniques) aren't listed on this board for those who want to stay.

the leaving board focuses on

 - detaching

 - in LESSONS there is also complementary material e.g. basic communication.

the staying board focuses

 - communication skills basic to fairly advanced

 - detaching to a limited degree / reestablishing respect through boundaries

 - self care in a stressful environment

The communities in both boards work towards different goals and a lot what goes on in one board can be triggering to members of the other board. However reading the lessons on the leaving board may be helpful for you to understand some aspects of the job loss. PwBPD similar to co-dependent people lack skills in the attachment area and the Leaving Board LESSONS focus on the detachment process.  I don't recommend you post on the leaving board or read too much of the regular posts. When it comes to Support and communication you will be way better off on the Staying Board.

Gracias. I have been reading the topics you mentioned and they are very helpful.

[babyoctopus]

"Of course he does not believe so, it's always someone else's fault. "

Wow... . Sounds exactly like mine. Also the insults, the blaming, eggshell-walking all of it.

Add in the financial/career pressures, and they become unbearable. The stress makes them react even worse. We have come to the point where he's gone through almost all of our friends & family and we are completely isolated because at one point or another, he got offended by them and cuts them off. Its a very lonely life.

The only way I survive now (and this is after 21 years of this and 4 children) is I volunteer, go the the gym every day, meet my friends for breakfast, and spend a lot of time out of the house being "busy". My next step is to get a job so I am gone even more.

All I can say is, and I don't mean to be cruel, but if I knew what I was in for when my eldest child was 18 months, I wold have left him then.