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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Clarity - I think.  (Read 356 times)
PhoenixRising15
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« on: May 12, 2014, 12:49:52 PM »

I look back and the relationship dynamic is so clear.

She wasn't as crazy or bad as I make her out to be in my head.  The bad/crazy behaviors that I attribute to her are mostly my own conjecture and pieced together memories, with post-hoc emotional flavor.

I'm not as crazy or bad as I make myself out to be in my head.  They were mostly codependence, insecurity, and core trauma.

But, man, when we got together, we could bring each other to the highest heights and lowest depths at the flip of a switch.

It was completely mutual.

She'd be nervous, which made me nervous (codependency), then I'd make it all about me and I'd try to fix things (core trauma).

I'd estimate this was 50% effective.  Completely random because I never knew when she wanted me to help and when she just wanted me to listen.  Here, we talk about SET, and turning a person's emotional responsibility back towards themselves.  I feel like I failed at this, but that is likely not entirely true.  Rather I was just always clueless.  I could never get a bead on what seemed to work with her.

I'd be nervous, which made her nervous (codependency), then she would panic and react some way.

We even talked about it.  We were aware of what was going on but neither of us could stop for the life of us.

I've read about people with BPD "stealing" their partner's responses (enmeshment).

This was the hardest for me to cope with.  I'm sure I did it as well to some degree, but with her it was more apparent to me. I wasn't listening the right way.  I wasn't listening for her emotions.  I was listening to her words.

We fought, and she would lash out (reactionarily/projecting/etc), I would get angry, and she would get angrier AT ME!

Wow.  It wasn't, I don't think, that I did something wrong in that moment.  Rather, she had come to rely on me to be stable for her.  To lean on.  To not react.  To help her talk through whatever was going on in her mind at that point.

When I didn't, when I reacted, in a moment of human weakness, that was where every blowup happened.  That's why I think this is all my fault.  Every fight did include me in it.  I did get angry.  I failed her expectations in those moments, but I did not fail her in those moments.

I was the same person through and through, as was she.  Her expectations were just more than I could handle. I needed her to be forgiving and loving too.  I needed her to be something different than she was, but what she tried to be.  I needed her to be what I was being for her.  Stable.  Someone to lean on.  To contain me.  To not react.  To hold me and tell me things are ok.

Every break up was the same.  We'd break up and eventually one or both of us would come to our senses about what was really going on in the moment.

Daisy was never forthcoming with apologies.  I think it made her feel like a failure as a girlfriend.  She always seemed to have a preoccupation with her friends opinion of her relationship skills.  I don't mind apologizing.  I know how F'd up I am, and I try to recognize my faults and make changes.

I didn't actually mind that.

The kiss of death for our relationship was when I lost my patience with the pace of her improvements.  I decided not to wait any longer for someone else to take care of me.  I decided I had to take care of myself.

In that,  I can understand how she would feel terribly abandoned.   I did, in effect, abandon her.  I can see it all now.  I led her to believe that I would always be the stable, rational, logical, talk through your emotions but its okay to feel anything sort of boyfriend.  The sort of significant other that I prayed for when I was working through my own issues.  I still haven't worked out if this is an appropriate relationship dynamic or is too much saving/rescuing/playing mommy/daddy. (Thoughts greatly appreciated here)

It didn't matter that she had already "left" the relationship.  I think we both knew she was just posturing.  I had acted earlier like I cared about her ex-boyfriend(s) and other guys.  Like I was jealous.  Truth is, I wasn't.  At all.  I judged them all pretty hard.  I judged I was better than each and every one of them. Especially the ones she tried to use to make me jealous.  We're just at different places in life, so they didn't really threaten me. But for some reason I acted like it did. I'm older than her and I've had enough sex to know the difference between a one night stand and the true intimacy I seek. So her random outbursts there didn't really hurt me either.  Don't get me wrong, I was hurt and angry.  Still am.  But I saw through it.  I loved through it.

She tried to manipulate me using the one card I had showed her would work on me, because it's how I chose that I wanted to be manipulated.  I didn't really care, but I felt like I should. We were always 'broken up' when she strayed.  In her mind, there was a very real possibility that she never would get me back.  That's what her words said and that's how they felt. I felt panicked, like if I didn't get the behavior to stop, she would keep going until it killed me (my own core trauma).  I reacted, and reacted, and panicked.  I didn't know what to do, or who to turn to for advice.  She was telling me it was ok if I left because she was messed up.  So were my friends.  Everyone told me to get out so much I was overwhelmed.

Daisy really was trying.  I know it.   I absolutely know it in my heart.

She just didn't get the game with me.  Perhaps that's my fault.  That I was not clear. 

I've had beautiful.  I've had smart.  I've had rich.  I've had poor.  I've had problematic.

I actually (in my own head at least) believe that I'm beyond that place of shallow relating.

I wanted her FOR her problems, FOR her insecurities, FOR her (in her mind) imperfections.

I didn't find these things negative, but rather the beautiful things that made her unique.

They were the things that made her mine.

My only problem was that she refused to seek out any support.  She refused to talk to a therapist, or her mother, or her family, or even her friends.  She pitted me against them, or so it felt.  I always told her I felt left out because everyone else had a different story than me. She said it was because I knew what was really going on. 

Who am I to say when she was telling the truth?

Perhaps I abandoned her ever more than I know.  Perhaps she really was confiding in me.  I know she was leaning on me.  I felt it heavily.  I led her on to believe I'd always be there. 

But I couldn't re-live my own trauma.  I wouldn't stand by and play the "secret" game with something that I saw was hurting her.

She said she had a problem with drugs and emotions, but she wouldn't go to her parents, friends, or other support systems.  Just me and her would know.  I over-stepped my bounds here, and I tried to push her to talk to her family.  To see them as a support.

I just couldn't bear all the pressure.  It felt too much like the past 20 years of my life trying to hide the fact that I was viciously and repeatedly raped.

And you know what?  She was right. 100%.  It wasn't my place to push her to get help.  It was her choice when and if she wanted to get it.  Just like no one could tell me to talk to a therapist.  When I was drinking and drugging and womanizing, no one could tell me any different.  I pushed away the people that tried to tell me I had a problem.  Because IN MY HEAD I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM.  I was having a normal reaction to an abnormal circumstance.  So is she.

I wanted her to be the best her possible.  I tried to encourage her to stand up for herself, to not be so hard on herself, to love herself more, to turn to her friends and family MORE.

I think she really cared about me.

I think she was really hurt when it ended.

I think she was really trying.

I think she was really confused.

I think I was what she really wanted, and she didn't really know what to do with it.

I know how overwhelming feelings of success are.  I've let them in more in the past 6 months than I have my entire life.  I have turned to my friends often and said, "wow, I don't know how all this wonderful stuff is happening to me.  I can't take it in.  I don't know what to say"

What must that be to be like in the relationship aspect?

She said that to me once, and I brushed it off.  That she was panicking because she kept worrying she was going to screw it up.

I am trying to forgive myself for my own problems.

It wasn't her "fault" or my "fault" that we couldn't stay together.  As I've detailed here and before.  It was such a powerful dynamic.  The saddest part is that I didn't have the maturity to pull out sooner.  We could still be friends, perhaps lovers, or even in a relationship if we had each taken our time to work on ourselves.

This is where my biggest fault lies.  I knew it, but I was not ready to stand by her as she made the necessary life changes to be a good partner for me.  Instead, I let her keep coming back and failing.  I was afraid I would lose her forever if I let her go for a while.  If I forced her out for a while to take care of myself.  So I gave and gave and gave, until I had nothing left.  Until I had to walk away or I would have killed myself.  Literally.  It just didn't matter anymore.  I loved her, and do love her, cheater, liar, etc etc. wholly and completely.  Until her core trauma and my core trauma came  pitted directly against each other.  Abandon her inner child by not taking care of her, or abandon my inner child by not standing up for him.

I'm not sure where all this lands me.  My feelings have been different as of late.  A lot of confusion.  A lot of questions about the future.  The only thing I know for certain I found in another thread.  It stands in all relationships I think.

I have to take care of myself.  I have to love myself alot.  I have to stop worrying about how someone else will respond to my feelings, and just feel them.

The rest, I don't think anyone else in the universe can tell me how it will work out. 

None of this was ever about her.  I always loved Daisy.  All of my anger and hatred towards her had much deeper roots in all of my other failed relationships.  It's taken me a long while to pull that projection back.  It continues to be more difficult.

That's the saddest part for me.  I really think we would have been a phenomenal pair.  I haven't worked out my core issues to be the loving partner I want to be, and neither has she.  There's just this virtual impasse.

Maybe I'm making all of it up in my mind, but I think she's still hurting.  I know I'm still hurting.  We just can't get back together.  I know where I am at.  I know my weaknesses and insecurities.  I know I'm not at a place where I can relate to anyone healthily.  I don't know where she is, but I know where she was.  I know she was not at a place that she could take care of me, and I know she was ashamed of that.  I know it.  Emotions and words.

I wish I could have this conversation with her.  I did at one point.  I told her I want her to go and take as much time and space as she needs to get healthy.  To be happy and confident in herself.  To love herself.

I wish I could tell her I still love her.  I pray for her.  I pray for myself.  That it is a terribly sad situation that we got ourselves into.

I don't.  I don't do any of these things, because all I seemed to do anymore was trigger her anger and hatred.  In the beginning, she kept telling me it was all my fault.  Eventually I just believed it.  Now I still do.  Because I am her trigger.  It's not my fault I'm her trigger.  It feels like it is but rationally I know it isn't.

So here I sit, the once love of her life, her the love of my life, knowing she doesn't hate me as much as she tells others she does, knowing she feels terribly abandoned for good reason, knowing that I am not strong enough to be the person SHE needs in a relationship.

So, yes, I take responsibility for my actions.  Yes, I know this was not all her fault.  Yes, I know it was not all my fault.  I know it was a loaded relationship bond. 

How do I fix this?  I know I have no control over her actions.  I'm trying to focus on me.  Trying to become a bigger, better person.

I have faith that if I am truly meant to be with her, there is no way it cannot happen.  I'm also not blind to the fact that I have no clue if that is the case or not.  I know it feels that way right now. 

I don't know.  I feel like I'm rambling now.

I don't know where I stand.  I thought I was focused on being mentally healthy.  How do I know?  How do I even know what mental health is?

Is it healthy to accept screaming and hitting and sleeping with multiple people?

It's been 6 months, and the only answer I can get to is that what other people do DOES NOT MATTER.  And it DOES NOT MATTER if I stay in that situation.  It's how do I respond to that situation.

When I am hit, or screamed at, do I fall into a 5 year old place of fear for my life?

Or do I take care of myself like an adult.

When my partner sleeps with another, I take care of myself, time and space, fearlessly to feel okay.  I don't put my health, emotional or physical, at risk for another person's emotions.  I won't just sleep with another person to make them feel better if I don't feel safe.  I move my sexuality at my own pace.

OK.  Now I'm really rambling and this post has taken me an hour to write, but I couldn't do anything else today without getting this out there.

Thank you for listening.
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PhoenixRising15
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 164


« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 09:52:29 PM »

TL:DR - The reason I got into a relationship with someone with many red flags about their dating ability was because I wanted to be loved and understood.  I have struggled to let go as I judged that was abnormal.

There has always been something lacking for me.  Some piece that didn't fit.

Over and over on this board it was asked, but I couldn't figure it out for the life of me.  What attracted you to a person who had many Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  's even if they were not BPD (which I'll never know).

People seemed to put forth things, but they never just sunk into my gut and sat there.  Until today.

For me, I still have a longstanding belief that I'm fundamentally broken.  That the abuse of my childhood precludes any possibility of intimacy, especially if someone were to know the real me.  I've always sought out someone that would get that. Someone that would be sensitive to it. No one else could get it if they hadn't experienced some form of abuse/trauma themselves.    I couldn't connect with this next part, but the words are coming so I'll let it flow.  I was afraid that if they knew me, they'd judge me as dirty, unlovable, beneath them.  I view myself as these things in relation to others who have not been raped or sexually abused or otherwise abused as a child.

It's not like this belief has gone fundamentally unnoticed by me.  I've been conscious of it.  Seeking it.  But I didn't know WHY.  And I felt so WRONG for wanting it.  Wanting to be understood and loved.

That one stings.

I want to be understood and loved.

I want to be understood and loved.

I want to be understood and loved.

I want to be understood and loved.

I want to be understood and loved.

I WANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD AND LOVED.

Even as I sit here, I struggle to accept that that is something normal.  That other people want it too. It's not wrong for me to want be understood and loved.

I have just kept setting myself up for failure by finding people that are having the same struggle as me.  How can anyone love me if I don't love myself?  How can anyone love another if they don't love themselves?

It's felt so normal to slip into a relationship with someone who has a roller coaster life for whatever reason.  I don't have to do drugs.  They are my drug.  I get a high when they are happy and I come down when they are sad.  If I just do some more happy-giving, I can get my high.  And just like a drug, I pay that price, and it takes more and more to get that same co-dependent high.

It replicates everything in my history.  It's so hard to break from that thought pattern.  I've been surrounded by chaos and had to give give give and take care of everyone else in my FOO to survive.

I can do it though.

I want to OWN that I do love Daisy.  Daisy IS wonderful. I DID want her. AND I wanted her for the RIGHT reason.  I wanted to be understood and loved.  For whatever reason, BPD, drugs, age, or maybe she just wasn't that into me, but I did NOT feel understood  by her.  I know she tried her best to love me.  That's probably the most shameful part for me.  She actually WAS trying to love me and understand me.  That I walked away letting her feel like it was her fault.

I couldn't stand up, again, and say, Daisy, this is not your fault.  I know you are struggling right now, and I am just really not wanting a relationship right now. Go off, do you, and let me get clear and happy again.  Let's re-evaluate at a later date.  I tried to hold on, because I was afraid of losing her.  I got tired of being the bad guy.  I got tired of being blamed for everything.  I spent 20 years being blamed for everything and I wouldn't take it anymore.  I wanted her to take the blame for once and let me just feel something for myself.

I demanded change.

And change happened.

We don't talk anymore.

It's okay now, I think.  This is a significant key for me.  I don't know what or why or how, but looking at our relationship like this, I think I can find peace.  I know so.

Let's just hope it doesn't take too long =)

Ok, thanks again for listening.
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heartandwhole
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 08:40:54 AM »

PhoenixRising15,

You are really going deep here, and I commend you.  It takes courage and strength to look at yourself like this, and I'm glad you are sharing your personal inventory with us. 

For me, I still have a longstanding belief that I'm fundamentally broken.  That the abuse of my childhood precludes any possibility of intimacy, especially if someone were to know the real me.  I've always sought out someone that would get that. Someone that would be sensitive to it. No one else could get it if they hadn't experienced some form of abuse/trauma themselves.    I couldn't connect with this next part, but the words are coming so I'll let it flow.  I was afraid that if they knew me, they'd judge me as dirty, unlovable, beneath them.  I view myself as these things in relation to others who have not been raped or sexually abused or otherwise abused as a child.

Phoenix, I'm not clear if I was sexually abused as a child, but I nevertheless resonate with what you have expressed here.  I think many of us feel in our cores that there is something wrong with us, in various ways.  In my experience, this is the core belief that we spend a lot of energy trying to cover up – from ourselves and others.  We are terrified that this belief might be the truth about us, even if intellectually we know it isn't.

And I felt so WRONG for wanting it.  Wanting to be understood and loved.

Yes, I have felt that, too.  I have felt wrong about needing.  Needing people, needing love, needing help.  I'm learning to get to a place of embracing this neediness inside of me.  I don't have to comfortable with it, but I don't have to reject it either.  It is hard, but so is running from it constantly.

Can you find a part inside of you that embraces this very normal human desire to be loved and understood?

I want to be understood and loved.

Me, too. 

It's felt so normal to slip into a relationship with someone who has a roller coaster life for whatever reason.  I don't have to do drugs.  They are my drug.  I get a high when they are happy and I come down when they are sad.  If I just do some more happy-giving, I can get my high.  And just like a drug, I pay that price, and it takes more and more to get that same co-dependent high.

It replicates everything in my history.  It's so hard to break from that thought pattern.  I've been surrounded by chaos and had to give give give and take care of everyone else in my FOO to survive.

I agree that these coping patterns can be very ingrained and difficult to change.  Awareness is a huge step, though.  Imagine the odds of changing a pattern you are not even aware of?  My T says many people can be in that boat for a long while.

It's okay now, I think.  This is a significant key for me.  I don't know what or why or how, but looking at our relationship like this, I think I can find peace.  I know so.

I know you can find peace, too, PhoenixRising15.  For me, peace doesn't mean that the belief that there is something wrong with me, with its attendant difficult feelings, never arises again.  The peace I'm referring to is actually what holds those feelings with compassion and love.  Maybe "they" just want to be understood and loved, too. 

heartandwhole
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