Mind maze

[antjs]

I have been in NC for a few weeks now. I still recall some events (my therapist informed me that i have mild acute PTSD) and during so i feel like some of my exgf words and actions might say that she is not BPD. My therapist heard my story (I intended to not mention that i have read about BPD to my therapist) and at the end he said "I dont want you to blame yourself. your exgf is diseased with something called borderline personality disorder". What makes it worse too that i have been chasing her for some time but she does not respond. she stopped responding when i sent her an article about BPD. she responded once after that and said "i shouldn't say hi back to someone who thinks i am mentally ill." i said "sorry" and she did not reply then i raged and told her very bad things the next day. i said "don't think i am not aware of your abuse and dominance, Triangulation, gaslighting... . etc. I am over you and i just want your pussy but on second thoughts lots of pussies out there." (of course i did not mean these words i just want her to reply). I am really confused is she not replying because i insulted her and she is normal and does not have BPD, because i now know her truth, because she found a replacement ? it's pathetic that i am even looking forward to being recycled. i miss her idealization

[trappedinlove]

I am really confused is she not replying because i insulted her and she is normal and does not have BPD, because i now know her truth, because she found a replacement ?

I suggest you focus on yourself rather than trying to analyse her and second guess her motives.

Being in No Contact for a while to start with can help calm down the mind and go through the grieving process.

it's pathetic that i am even looking forward to being recycled. i miss her idealization

That's understood.  So many of us are there or were in that place after the b/u.

There seems to be something addictive in a r/s with a pwBPD, there is the idealization, the positive dis-regulated emotions - that are so child like, the deep emotional connection, the dependency... . all that, mixed with the drama and pull/push that rubs it into our veins... .

Be kind to yourself.  You are not pathetic.  You are reacting as many other addicts react when their fix is taken away

But you can heal and come out on the other side stronger and smarter!

[2010]

antony_james,

    You say your therapist says she is "diseased," you sent her an article about BPD- she responded hurt and said she did not want to speak to you. You said sorry and when you did not get a reply, you reacted in a rage and then you objectified her by mentioning her genitals and then diminished her further by saying that there were plenty other genitals you were interested in.

She's probably not replying because you are abusive.

i am even looking forward to being recycled. i miss her idealization

I don't think that you will ever be idealized after what has occurred.

Since you've mentioned this to your therapist and he's told you not to blame yourself. What did he/she think of your behavior? And did your therapist have any suggestions for you?

[antjs]

antony_james,

    You say your therapist says she is "diseased," you sent her an article about BPD- she responded hurt and said she did not want to speak to you. You said sorry and when you did not get a reply, you reacted in a rage and then you objectified her by mentioning her genitals and then diminished her further by saying that there were plenty other genitals you were interested in.

She's probably not replying because you are abusive.

i am even looking forward to being recycled. i miss her idealization

I don't think that you will ever be idealized after what has occurred.

Since you've mentioned this to your therapist and he's told you not to blame yourself. What did he/she think of your behavior? And did your therapist have any suggestions for you?

my therapist is still working with me step by step ( i have only seen him two times). as you know there are these two people in your head that are fighting after a break up with a BPD person so one guy of them did tell her so as to make sure that she will never be back. of course i did not mean what i have said and of course i was not only with her for sex and i have not noticed any abuse from my side during any past relationships. I acknowledge that this was a mistake as i was at rage as you said. part of me wants her but the other part did something to make sure that she will not be back to me even if i wanted so. Since long time ago i am sure that she is not good for me and she will never be.

[Mutt]

I am over you and i just want your pussy but on second thoughts lots of pussies out there." (of course i did not mean these words i just want her to reply).

i have not noticed any abuse from my side during any past relationships.

2010 said she's not responding because you are abusive. This is abusive post-relationship. What kind of response did you really expect after saying something like that?

[LettingGo14]

my therapist is still working with me step by step ( i have only seen him two times).

I just want to add a comment regarding therapy, and -- more specifically -- my experience with therapy.

Broadly speaking -- there's an outside world which we translate internally through thoughts and feelings.   There are people and events in the outside world, none of which we control -- including our former partners.  

Therapy, for me, relates to my internal translation of the outside world.  I process my thoughts and feelings there.   It is internally focused.

Stated another way, I do not diagnose the outside world in therapy; instead, I work with what I have inside of me.  

Translated to my ex-girlfriend, it's my job to let go, not diagnose her. It's my job to own the grief, self-doubt, shame that accompanied the end of the relationship.  

Just a thought for you, antony_james, as you continue your journey.

[antjs]

mutt and 2010 i was going through my old posts this morning to see how much progress i have been doing. to be honest your replies did hurt me. and i am not looking here for someone to praise me or just to be on my side. yes i agree that out of the context this saying is abusive specially the part mentioning her privates but if you look through my posts from day one (specially you mutt since you have been more following of my posts) you will understand that what i said was out of severe and intense abuse that did happen over a very short time. she is the abusive one here not me. look for the reason. look for the action not the reaction. i was the victim here after 2 weeks of idealization then one morning it all happened out of the blue mood swings, crazy makings, triangulation with ex, push and pull all of it and it lasted for short cause i stood for myself. the break up was full of blame towards me as if iscrewed everything up. yes i took it very fast with her (the only fault of mine i could point to) but if she is not interested anymore she should have just left without all this abuse and damage. actually i tried to leave her after one week of the devaluation and she lured me back in with sex. she tricked me into "pregnancy" to keep me for a recycle. one mini-recycle of a week long with abuse, gas lighting, lies and manipulation times 10 of the original.

concerning if she is going to paint me white again, i reached a stage that i am glad that she is not going to repaint me white. i am still hurt but i am out of the fog. i am glad that i am getting rid of this toxicity out of my life. i had lots of break ups before, yet i have never been abusive to any of my exs during any break up.

I am sorry if i sound defensive but i am already too much critical on myself.

[Tausk]

Yes, you've been making great progress.  And yes it takes time.   And I understand.  I did things that were impulsive, felt justified, but in actuality against my ethics and needs.

And under any light, those of my responses that were similar to yours, were cruel, destructive, abusive and inexcusable.  When I try to justify them, I end up in victim mentality, and that is a oneway ticket down the rabbit hole of eternal misery.    Our exes did things to us that were cruel and abusive, and we want them to take responsibility.  We want a real apology.  An apology that does not come with an excuse.  An apology that includes an amend and a committment to not engage in the behavior again.

PwBPD drown in the constant nightmare of what we are just tasting.  But it does not excuse their abusive behavior.  How can it then excuse my behavior?  Taking responsibility and being brutally and caustically self honest is the only way to recovery.  There are no loopholes in self honesty and self responsibility.  Some people stay in anger and victim mode for their entire lives.  Some people do not recover from the interaction.  It's a fact.  

I want to recover.  I want to listen to others.  I want to learn and grow.  I need to be open minded and willing.   I need to only speak when it improves on what I am hearing, or at a minimum when it improves on the silence.  

[Mutt]

Hi anthony_james,

You feel critical about yourself and your feelings are hurt and I'm sorry. I've been guilty as well of saying things to my ex in the heat of the moment that I'm not proud of and my behavior is abusive in that context but it doesn't quantify me as an abusive person.

look for the reason. look for the action not the reaction.

Very wise antony_james and I agree.

i was the victim here after 2 weeks of idealization then one morning it all happened out of the blue mood swings, crazy makings, triangulation with ex, push and pull all of it and it lasted for short cause i stood for myself.

The pendulum swung very quickly and hard for you and it's doubly confusing when everything is flipped so quickly. That's tough.

the break up was full of blame towards me as if iscrewed everything up.

This is difficult anthony_james. I found this to be one of the most difficult areas as well because I was buying into it. I had a lot of love for my ex and tried the best that I could and I started to believe maybe there is something wrong with me. Blame shifting the entire r/s on you is hard, she is a person that is dysfuntional but our hearts are invested and that's where the hurts comes.

concerning if she is going to paint me white again, i reached a stage that i am glad that she is not going to repaint me white. i am still hurt but i am out of the fog. i am glad that i am getting rid of this toxicity out of my life. i had lots of break ups before, yet i have never been abusive to any of my exs during any break up.

I'm glad to hear that you are at a stage where you don't want a recycle. The hurt and  pain takes time but you can see the forest for the trees now. You are out of the FOG and can see FOG when someone throws it up likely. I believe that you are not an abusive person anthony_james. A pwBPD can and do get the best of us especially when we are so committed and can't understand why she is acting out based on our good and sincere deeds. It's painful. You're making progress and I'm glad that you stood up to make your voice heard because it wasn't. My apologies and thank you.

[antjs]

thanks tausk for your honest opinion. yes i dont want to be the victim forever. i am just hyper-critical on myself and i need to chill.


thanks mutt for your sincere validation. you and tausk are one of the people that i wish to meet in real life to give a real thanks. i can not see you but you are great people doing the good and expecting nothing. I am sorry if i was defensive. I am not trying to hide anything or stay in the victimhood ally. I want to progress but i feel i am hard on myself.

[Mutt]

thanks mutt for your sincere validation. you and tausk are one of the people that i wish to meet in real life to give a real thanks. i can not see you but you are great people doing the good and expecting nothing. I am sorry if i was defensive. I am not trying to hide anything or stay in the victimhood ally. I want to progress but i feel i am hard on myself.

I respect that you stuck up for yourself. Boundaries tools of respect. You stuck up with your ex as did I, that's were the real acting out started (devaluation) but I don't regret that I did. Her dysfunctions and insecurities belong to her and I grew a spine.

We're all broken in one form or another. Including myself. It took me 40 years antony_james to find these boards and people like us. We're broken but it gives us our strength and our character. It's not all about borderline personality disorder, it's also about our personality traits and our FOO (family of origin). My ex put me through a lot of pain and a lot of suffering. When she left and went no contact, the break-up was the most painful thing that I had ever felt in my life. There was more there than just a break up. She managed to get through my defense mechanisms without me realizing that she did. If you have ever watched Star Trek, you've heard the main engineers say "warp core breach", that's the best that I can describe the condition I was in when she left.

I was hard on myself for 40 years, I still am from time to time but I catch it and correct and know what belongs to me and I practice mindfulness to soothe myself and to center myself. I also validate myself having not known that tool from growing up in an invalidating environment. I learn something each and every day. You taught me:

Don't judge a man unless you have walked a mile in their shoes.

I thank you for that.

This is excruciating pain for you. As hard and difficult as it is, lean into this pain. I chose to lean into it to find answers for myself and to learn who I am. I felt completely broken after she left. I'm tough but this was something else. I decided to take the time to try to sift through my issues from my past instead of trying to find another person to make me happy. Why am I so critical on myself when I'm a good guy? Why do I attract these toxic behaviors in others? I can honestly thank my ex for freeing me from my past with my family and starting the road to recovery and happiness.

"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." -Plato

Stay the course antony_james as difficult as it is. Lean into the pain. Take what belongs to you and work on you. Find answers about yourself. Free yourself. I found my answers from Leaving and Personal Inventory. This is from one brother to another. You can do this. Trust me man, you will be OK.

[willbegood]

I am over you and i just want your pussy but on second thoughts lots of pussies out there." (of course i did not mean these words i just want her to reply). I am really confused is she not replying because i insulted her and she is normal and does not have BPD, because i now know her truth, because she found a replacement ? it's pathetic that i am even looking forward to being recycled. i miss her idealization

Ha, been there done that more than once. LOL!

They may be screwy in the head but they still get Pi**ed when you say stuff like that to them. From what I've seen, you can say anything you want to a BPD person. As long as they're not idealizing someone else they'll eventually talk to you if that's what you want.

[antjs]

thanks mutt for your sincere validation. you and tausk are one of the people that i wish to meet in real life to give a real thanks. i can not see you but you are great people doing the good and expecting nothing. I am sorry if i was defensive. I am not trying to hide anything or stay in the victimhood ally. I want to progress but i feel i am hard on myself.

I respect that you stuck up for yourself. Boundaries tools of respect. You stuck up with your ex as did I, that's were the real acting out started (devaluation) but I don't regret that I did. Her dysfunctions and insecurities belong to her and I grew a spine.

We're all broken in one form or another. Including myself. It took me 40 years antony_james to find these boards and people like us. We're broken but it gives us our strength and our character. It's not all about borderline personality disorder, it's also about our personality traits and our FOO (family of origin). My ex put me through a lot of pain and a lot of suffering. When she left and went no contact, the break-up was the most painful thing that I had ever felt in my life. There was more there than just a break up. She managed to get through my defense mechanisms without me realizing that she did. If you have ever watched Star Trek, you've heard the main engineers say "warp core breach", that's the best that I can describe the condition I was in when she left.

I was hard on myself for 40 years, I still am from time to time but I catch it and correct and know what belongs to me and I practice mindfulness to soothe myself and to center myself. I also validate myself having not known that tool from growing up in an invalidating environment. I learn something each and every day. You taught me:

Don't judge a man unless you have walked a mile in their shoes.

I thank you for that.

This is excruciating pain for you. As hard and difficult as it is, lean into this pain. I chose to lean into it to find answers for myself and to learn who I am. I felt completely broken after she left. I'm tough but this was something else. I decided to take the time to try to sift through my issues from my past instead of trying to find another person to make me happy. Why am I so critical on myself when I'm a good guy? Why do I attract these toxic behaviors in others? I can honestly thank my ex for freeing me from my past with my family and starting the road to recovery and happiness.

"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." -Plato

Stay the course antony_james as difficult as it is. Lean into the pain. Take what belongs to you and work on you. Find answers about yourself. Free yourself. I found my answers from Leaving and Personal Inventory. This is from one brother to another. You can do this. Trust me man, you will be OK.

Mutt i am digging deep but i cant find something significant. yes i have learned a lot when it comes to relationship experiences like dont go fast, know when to say no, reality check and a lot of other stuff. but regarding codependency and foo i can't put my hand on anything. even my therapist denied anything regarding codependency or foo. he said that i have quarter life crisis and since my life had taken a bad turn in a lot of aspects four years ago thats why i was drowned in her idealization phase cause she was the only "good" thing in my life. but i feel its more than that. i have been in pain for long. this is too much for a break up. i feel that i am processing a pain of unresolved issue\s without knowing what is it in the form of this break up. for the last 4 years, i used to numb my feelings and avoid conflict with myself. this break up was a wake up call for my life. but still i want to put my hands on the unresolved issues.

[Mutt]

I started looking at the idealization phase. What was so powerful with it that I stayed 7 years for that woman to come back? I kept waiting for that woman to return up to the end. I was hanging on to that.

I recalled our first major fight and having a sense of deja vu. I actually mentally visualized my father in my mind. I felt transference from her during other rages. Aa if she was acting out a predetermined play and I had a role in but no script. I couldn't understand what she was saying.

This happened several times in the r/s.  I've acted this out in past in the present with my father or it was my ex reliving something from her past. I wasn't engaging her in the beginning being reminded of my father. It was something that I had wanted to leave behind and didn't want to go through with it again. forgave him at 30 (never told him) and thought I had processed it. It wasn't until my breakup that I realized that was just a layer of the onion.  I forgave him and accepted him for what he is. I would get in some terrible fights with him as a young teenager. My father has BPD traits although I wouldn't say he is mentally ill. His childhood was invalidating as well but he displays splitting (persons or entire groups), projection and black and white thinking. I wouldn't describe him as emotionally healthy and he's a man in his 60's that had not changed. He is a very controlling man and invalidating. He would split me black often and was a very detached father. Negative attention is still attention, I simply wanted validation and attention as a child. Fast toward 15 years I meet my ex. The idealization / being put on a pedestal soothed my inner child that I was not validating myself. In the rabbit hole I go.

I connected the dots by looking at why I threw out all reason and logic and was hooked on her idealization. I did that with group therapy here, the articles that we have I have to give the most credit to and my P and T. I found my answers here after a 40 year long journey. I'm codependent from the environment and situations I was raised in. Things that I could not control and are not my fault. I had to go very dep anthony_james to find those answers. That's the gift of the borderline as the way I interpret it. I don't feel like the same man, Zen Buddhism helps a lot with centering and radical acceptance. It's not to say that I'm completely out of the woods but I'm getting there. If you have a Twitter account:  www.twitter.com/dailyzen or@dailyzen I get inspired there every day.

Everyones experience is different. Without the risk of sounding like I'm exaggerating I went to countless couples counseling and my own counseling. No one picked up het triangulations, waif / need to be rescued / black and white thinking, all or nothing, devaluations. I'm not a professional. I have 1 therapist now that I return to because he understands BPD. He said his first wife was mentally ill he believes. He wasn't resistant believing my side of the story as a non.  I told him about my r/s with my ex and seperation and said she is definitely mentally ill.

I had my own emotional issues before I met my ex. Years of problems. I own that and I can't blame her but I was enmeshed with her. I was afraid of losing the rs out of my own needs and the neglect of my needs as well and self esteem. I was scared of not ending someone else.

Are you happy with your therapist? Are you confident that the work your doing feels right? My situation is my own and may or may not apply. Maybe someone has gone through a similar path and it will help them. I'm glad that we were able to sort this out anthony_james. Maybe your therapist is right on target, I can't help you in that regards but were all here to help each other. I could relate to bits and pieces from almost everyones experience and took that away.

Above all anthony_james keep hanging in there and don't be hard on yourself. You stuck up for yourself and had a boundary.  The great Winston Churchil once said "If your going through hell keep going" The rest is history and he's right. This feels like hell but keep going through you will prevail.