He might be unfaithful---how to approach?

[shatra]

Hi---

   I am feeling anxious and mad. I spotted a photo a 3rd party posted on Google plus, that shows my bf with a female. They are in a park and are posing for the camera. I know that he has female (and male friends), but I feel suspicious. Also, this person moved from another state 2 years ago to nearby where my bf lives---I realize there could be other explanations for that.

   I wonder how to approach this---I cannot be silent about it. He has said that he is faithful. Also, I know some of you stay with an unfaithful partner. We have been together for a few years---I feel upset, and would feel like I would let him know he needs to choose (if he is being unfaithful). That's how I feel right now anyway.

Shatra

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[Grey Kitty]

Q1: Were you snooping? (It sounds like you saw something that wasn't hidden at all, rather than snooping in his email, etc.)

Q2: Does he have any history of infidelity, either with you or in a prior r/s?

If both those answers are No, I'd suggest you ask him about the picture, with as much non-fearful honest curiosity as you can muster. There are many reasonable, faithful situations that could have resulted in this picture.

My next suggestion is that if your heart just doesn't want to give him the benefit of the doubt here, and you can't honestly try that, be honest with him. Admit that you are really afraid he is unfaithful. Be very clear that you aren't accusing him, you are just afraid.

The pitfall for you to avoid is that any questioning of his fidelity will be invalidating, and very hard for a pwBPD to handle well, not just if he was cheating, but if he was faithful too.

[shatra]

Hi

Thank you. The answer to both questions is no.

:The pitfall for you to avoid is that any questioning of his fidelity will be invalidating, and very hard for a pwBPD to handle well, not just if he was cheating, but if he was faithful too."

-----Can you elaborate a bit?  Why would this be hard for a pBPD to handle?=====I could validate "I understand you have always told me that you are faithful. I'm feeling curious about this photo. Do you know what it's about?

Shatra

[shatra]

Hi

  I am feeling so upset and preoccupied with this. I'm worried if he says actually yes, he has been with this other person dating. I know some of you go along with this, but I would feel torn apart, angry and too jealous to put up with this if it's ongoing. I would not want to see him. Yet I would feel mad if I just bow out and "hand" him over to this other person. I would wonder if I am missing out on the relationship I could have if I just waited a bit longer.

Shatra

[Fanie]

I have the same problem

I don't know what to do about it

I know that she was unfaithful to me

We don't talk about it

As previously we let the dust cover it up ... .

Until next time ?

[ziniztar]

Hi shatra,

I feel for you. I would have the same reaction, and cheating is a dealbreaker too. What I've learned is that I am very scared to be abandoned as well. And that my actions to keep people with me usually drive them away.

Turn this thing around; what if an old male friend from high school, band practice, swimming (whatever) would move closer, you pose in front of a camera with him and a few days later you BPD SO starts asking anxious questions about who that guy was. You'd probably feel like he doesn't trust you (that is the invalidating part). You can only image what a pwBPD then feels and what it results in. They're already feeling worthless, and they probably start believing you. And acting upon it?

I agree with grey kitty there are hundreds of reasons that photo could have been taken without infidelity playing a role. Maybe your gut feeling was right and he was flirting with her or he used to be in love with her, but he chooses to be with you. Be careful not to invalidate his trust. As you would like your pwBPD to do as well; stick with expressing your own emotions without accusing him. It can actually even be sweet to hear that someone was a little jealous over a photo. As long as there was absolutely no accusation in there.

I've told my dBPDbf that I was a little bit jealous of some girl once.

She threw herself at his feet. He smiled a little bit (because he knows the feeling!) but immediately asked me 'does that mean you don't trust me?'

We have very clear boundaries what infidelity is to me. And I trust him he won't pass them. Trust usually has to be given first. If you don't, you will loose either way.

Good luck confronting him  

[Grey Kitty]

:The pitfall for you to avoid is that any questioning of his fidelity will be invalidating, and very hard for a pwBPD to handle well, not just if he was cheating, but if he was faithful too."

-----Can you elaborate a bit?

What I meant was that the accusation of infidelity is invalidating. He says he is faithful. You are effectively saying (at best) "I'm not sure you are faithful like you say you are" or (worse) "I do not believe you are faithful." It is inherently questioning his actions and motivations.

Many things in life are invalidating, and we all deal with them on occasion. The nature of BPD is that a pwBPD is MORE sensitive to invalidation than a "normal" person, and will mentally/emotionally spiral out of control much faster when exposed to invalidation.

Thus I'm cautioning you to be as far from accusatory as you possibly can.

You are clearly and rightfully upset about the idea of his infidelity--Open r/s are a different animal, but cheating is never "OK" Sometimes it is forgiven and the r/s continues. That it ends many r/s is completely reasonable in my mind.

So my first suggestion is to ask him about the pic, with open curiosity and no accusation, if you can be sincere and mean it.

Something like "This is an interesting pic of you and (person_x). What were you doing that day?"

If you cannot convince yourself that it is a normal question, and are still very upset about it, my next suggestion is to admit to him that YOU are afraid, freaked out, worried, etc... . be honest that you have no reason to believe he's cheating, but the possibility is really freaking you out. Thus keeping this about YOUR feelings, not what he *might* be thinking, feeling, or doing.

That would be more like "I saw this pic of you and (person_x). I've got no idea what it is happening there, and I'm driving myself nuts with jealousy over the idea that you could be cheating on me. Please tell me what was going on that day"

Either way, you are looking to just hear what he says about it. Most people don't lie well and easily, and may not even try. If he really wasn't into or involved with (person_x), then putting him through the Spanish Inquisition will just harm your r/s... . with no reason.

You can address later whether his response seems trustworthy to you or sets off more alarm bells in your head.

[kba1969]

I personally feel that you should trust your gut feeling.  I asked my x many times about things I found out and never got strait answers.  They will lie right to your face in a heartbeat and think nothing of it.  Over and over I lost trust in anything she said to the point I had to find out for myself.  After looking at her phone, all my worst nightmares had come true.  My body was telling me all along and I didn't know how it felt.  My stomach hurt to the point I had an ultrasound and went to a GI Clinic.  I even had an ulcer test.  Those pains were nothing more than my gut telling me something was wrong.  If you get to the point where you don't trust your partner it's time to move on.  Easier said than done I know but that's what I'm working towards.  I do have feelings for my x and don't really know how I will handle it if she contacts me again but the track record is what I have and the great feeling of NC and no stomach pain!  Good luck with your findings

[shatra]

Hi

Thanks for all the feedback. I am feeling anxious, and trying to stay rational and look at the facts. Most facts support him being faithful. It's significant to me that he blocked this female from contacting him via Google plus, etc.

   Yet she is someone who moved to his area awhile back, from another state. I will take Grey Kitty's advice and ask ask softly as I can, what the photo is about. He'll know I can contact the photo person if I wanted to (I would not though), so I feel that would ensure that he will be honest (meaning he will know I can ask the Google person about the photo directly).

   I feel nervous about it. What if he admits he has been unfaithful? Even if it's been on and off, and even if he's not with her anymore, I would be furious. I'd want to yell and tell him how dishonest and cruel he has been, and tell him it must be that he was never serious about me if he diluted the relationship by being unfaithful. (All that is about me and my reactions----I'd react that way to anyone who was unfaithful, nothing specific about him).

  My options would be

----Stay with him though he is/was unfaithful

-----Let him know he needs to choose between me and the other one

-----Break up with him over this

-----Not sure of any other options

     I know it may turn out that he is faithful. It's just that when I speak to him about it, I won't have time to come back  to the board for support, so I am thinking of possible outcomes. I would like to let him know he needs to choose, and set a boundary that I won't stay if he continues to be unfaithful. 

Thanks

Shatra

[Grey Kitty]

Try not to spend too much time thinking about what you will do if you believe he is/was cheating. You can get lost down that track pretty quickly... . and you are still trying to decide *if* he is/was cheating.

I'm with kba1969 about paying attention to your gut feeling. I'm not normally a jealous person... . but there were a couple times I noticed I was having some sort of jealous reaction to somebody my wife was spending time with. It is now years later, and I know the whole story.  My wife didn't cheat, although she was right on the edge once. More importantly, my jealousy was "right" in that there was something happening that I should have been paying attention to.

This brings up a third possibility to consider: There could be some attraction between the two of them... . and he could be trying really hard to stay faithful to you despite this, but (fairly naturally) not wanting to totally cut a friend out of his life.

Let us know how your conversation goes with him, and how you are feeling about it.

 GK

[shatra]

Grey Kitty wrote

Try not to spend too much time thinking about what you will do if you believe he is/was cheating. You can get lost down that track pretty quickly... . and you are still trying to decide *if* he is/was cheating.

-----Problem is, it could turn out that when I talk to him he really was unfaithful and admits it. I won't have the chance to seek help from the board, so in case anyone has feedback about the various options, I can have a better response, rather than reacting in an invalidating way. I would be very upset if he was/is cheating, and I know others here have dealt with that, so there may be some feedback (in advance, so to speak).

  Re someone being attracted to a friend, that would be fine with me. To me, that would be normal and not a problem, as long as it hasn't been actual unfaithfulness.

  He has blocked this person on the Google account for awhile now.

Shatra

[Grey Kitty]

Problem is, it could turn out that when I talk to him he really was unfaithful and admits it. I won't have the chance to seek help from the board, so in case anyone has feedback about the various options, I can have a better response, rather than reacting in an invalidating way. I would be very upset if he was/is cheating, and I know others here have dealt with that, so there may be some feedback (in advance, so to speak).

My recommendation is that you just hear out what he says... . perhaps not probe for more details right now, that is pretty triggering/upsetting, although wondering/guessing can be as bad. You'll have to figure out which feels right there.

At some point you will have all the information you want, can handle, or can get from him before he is fully dysregulated. There are a *lot* of ways this conversation could go bad (invalidating, abusive, etc.) from here.

My recommendation is to end the conversation after getting the information, and (hopefully!) before it turns abusive on either your part or his.

Tell him you need time and space to think about what this means and what you want to do. Then end the conversation and leave.

Saying nothing can be difficult, or even invalidating. But what you would say instead isn't likely to be better, and also may well change.

At this point, you will have time to think about it... . even be able to ask for thoughts or advice here or with a T or trusted friend. And you can talk to him about what you need from him or want to do later after checking in with both your mind and your heart.

  Re someone being attracted to a friend, that would be fine with me. To me, that would be normal and not a problem, as long as it hasn't been actual unfaithfulness.

Unfortunately, this can still be a mess. My wife and I didn't agree on what constituted unfaithfulness... . but didn't discuss it. She stayed within her limits and thought that it was OK with me. After I figured out what had happened, it wasn't OK with me. (Loong story... . with a happy ending; we're still together and now better than ever... . not that I recommend it for you!)

I'm hoping this is all hypothetical for your sake.

  GK

[shatra]

Hi===

   We talked, and he said the person is a former "friend". I had the sense they had dated in the past. He was angry at the idea that I thought there was something going on between them. He provided details which are convincing that he has not been unfaithful.

  I feel relieved. WIthout the help of the board, and doing deep breathing before I saw him, I would have blown up and been accusatory. The board is really helping me, I appreciate it.  I believe he is faithful, yet I wonder if maybe he was still with her in the early part of our relationship. I would just need to accept this. My anxiety and anger levels went from a 9 down to a 2 by meeting with him.

  I assume it's best to stay calm about it with him, and try to do validating his view.

Shatra

   

[Grey Kitty]

 

Yay for handling situations better!

I don't know about validating his view--Instead, try to validate his feelings. (Anger was one!)

I do think there is still reason to have some concern on your part, though.

Did he clearly state that he isn't in contact with this person and plans to stay that way? You said he blocked her on google plus.

You might consider telling him that if he stays out of contact with her, you don't need to know anything more.

You also might consider telling him that you want to know more about his history, intentions, and boundaries/limits with her if he intends to resume (or continue) contact with her.

I am sure it is easier to just stop discussing her entirely... . and depending on what he's told you so far, that might be good enough. Especially if you have already set clear limits regarding infidelity.

Whew!

[shatra]

Hi--

Grey K wrote

Did he clearly state that he isn't in contact with this person and plans to stay that way? You said he blocked her on google. You might consider telling him that if he stays out of contact with her, you don't need to know anything more. You also might consider telling him that you want to know more about his history, intentions, and boundaries/limits with her if he intends to resume (or continue) contact with her.

----Thanks. Yes, I still feel anxious and concerned---the female "shared" the photo with her family members, sending it as part of a greeting card. According to my partner, this female thinks there is more to the "friendship" than just friendship.  She may think she is still involved with him, though he denies this (and there is some evidence of this).

    I feel upset, since I know how returning to the ex (in "rapprochement" isn't unusual with pwBPD.  I would like to find out form him when he actually broke it off with her, and whether thingns had gotten serious between he and I before or after that. If he was still with her for awhile after meeting me, I would feel very angry and find it hard to trust him. I am also concerned that she shows this photo to relatives, as if she and my partner are in an actual relationship. His response to that was "She's out of touch!" . yet i am suspicious about someone doing that if in fact there is no relationship.  My brother told me ":)on't worry, there are people who post fake things on google plus, and yes, someone could have the fantasy that they are romantic with someone who only sees them as an ex or a friend. I feel confused, and I don't want to lash out at or annoy him, just find out the truth.

Shatra

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmmm... . People tend to form r/s with somebody who is at a similar emotional level. Conclusion from that: A pwBPD is not very emotionally mature. His exgf (or whatever she is) wouldn't be expected to be more emotionally mature, although her issues are likely different, so the idea that she is doing something kinda wacky like this fits.

So what your bf tells you, and what she told him and her actions regarding him all can be taken with a grain of salt... . likely they both have distorted views of what is really going on.

I would like to find out form him when he actually broke it off with her, and whether thingns had gotten serious between he and I before or after that. If he was still with her for awhile after meeting me, I would feel very angry and find it hard to trust him.

Good questions... . but think more about what you really want to know, and why.

First off, are you sure he had a r/s with her? And has he confirmed this?

Second, you wonder when they broke up (presuming they were an item once). That can be confusing... . pwBPD can breakup and recycle a dozen times... . and can jump into immediate emotional intimacy at warp speed.

You have fears about when he broke up with her relative to when he started a r/s with you.

Lastly, you are concerned if something inappropriate is going on recently, not just at the beginning of your r/s with him.

Finally... . do you want to *know* these things, or do you want to hear them from your partner?