Need some perspective

[blueman54321]

Well, we have been talking a lot and she said she misses me, even said she'd thought of getting back together but then "mmm nah" was her response... .

Why say that in the first place.

And then goes on to say she's going back on the dating site.

Is she testing me? Trying to hurt me?

Need some perspective, I seem to have forgotten why this girl is bad for me and how she ripped out my heart less than 2 months ago.

I seem to be going backwards at the moment.

[Narellan]

You feel like you're going backwards because you are. You've been "talking a lot" = going backwards. And she's talking about going on dating sites? Why are you talking?

I'm sorry if I'm being blunt... . You asked for perspective so I'm trying to give you some.

What are you getting out of this contact with her? That needs to be your first question. I think you need to step out of the victim role.

Have you tried to go NC ? Because you're on the detaching board I'm assuming you have decided to leave the relationship, but then you are asking her if she wants another go.

She doesn't. At the moment she's having her cake and eating it to. She's got you still hooked and putting herself out there for whatever else might take her fancy.

I think you know what you need to do.

[OutOfEgypt]

I echo Narellan.  That is going backwards.  When you are stuck ruminating about what she's doing and why she's doing it, you are getting sucked back in.  Without trying to make them seem like evil megalomaniacs (but with acknowledging their need to control and dominate you), she is banking on the fact that you are going to be thrown off balance by little things she does or says.  I call them "bombs".  They are intended to distract, get you thrown off, and suck you back into the emotional foray.  Remember, it doesn't have to be a "relationship" they are sucking you back into.  They just need you to be emotionally imprisoned and dominated by their behavior.  They need to know that they can play their game with you any time and you will always jump right in, even if it is only through freaking out or obsessing about little things they said.

I remember when my ex first filed for divorce, it was already after a long, long painful relationship, replete with mind-games, manipulation, lying, control, self-esteem smashing, blaming, and affairs.  I had confronted her finally and told her she needs to get help (NOT recommended).  She laughed about it and mocked me.  Then she filed for divorce.  I was like "fine... screw this!".  I called up a girl I had met at a live venue.  I went out on a date or two, and my ex saw that I was emotionally leaving.  I didn't give a #$ what she did.  I was emotionally moving out.

And it freaked her out.  She began trying all kinds of things to get me hooked again.  The biggest one was that suddenly she was all sweet and saying things like, "Maybe we shouldn't get a divorce.  Why didn't we ever go out together, just the two of us?" (I have been asking myself that for years, duhhhhh)  We even had sex.  And then its like... . i would be drawn close and, while cuddling on the porch swing, she would then proceed to tell me all the reasons why I'm no good for her, all the reasons why she doesn't want me.  This "come close, now I'll hurt you" was a very common pattern with her.  A common game.

I'm at the point where, though I have to remain in contact with my ex because of the children, I do not let her "in" emotionally.  Sometimes we laugh, and I keep it light.  But nothing emotional, nothing personal.  If she tells me personal stories, I find a reason to have to go.  I keep it dry.  But you don't even need to do that.  NC is a good idea.

It's funny how Narellan used those words "have her cake and eat it too."  I used to say that of my ex, while we were married, all the time.  Very true.  They want emotionalism and control of you, my friend -not mutual, caring love.  Sorry, but that is the truth and you know it.

How do I know you know it?  Recognize all the things you do to walk on eggshells.  Recognize all the ways you try to bend your behavior around her so that you don't provoke certain reactions from her.  You do that because you KNOW she is not capable of being a mutually-caring, mutually-respecting adult in a relationship with you.  You know she wouldn't commit under the rules of a normal, healthy relationship.  You know she is a grown child, but instead of facing what you know you let her write the rules -those very painful, very dysfunctional rules.  Sorry, brother.  I know it is hard.

[OutOfEgypt]

Also... . you may want to consider writing a journal, if you don't already.  Document the things that happened with her and how you felt.  Your psyche does not forget -trust me.  That is why you endure often life-changing damage while in a relationship with a BPDso.

Sometimes, I still get flashbacks about absolutely crazy things that happened, and at the time I was so sucked into her world I didn't even see it as crazy.

She thinks it is funny, but it is true.  During a time when I was foolishly trying to explain to her how she is, because she was asking, I told her that she would attract and control "minions."  Minions were people she used to do her bidding.  Maybe they were sex partners who doted on her and became a dumping ground for all of her rage against men.  Maybe they were "friends" that she unconconsciously chose because she saw them as easy to control and messed up enough to listen to her, tell her she is great no matter what she does, and always be available for an ego pick-me-up.  Meanwhile, she trash talks them and tells me and others how they are losers and how emotionally messed up they are.  Hmm... .

She wants to cast her net, and even if she moves on to another man, she wants to know you are still in her net.  You need to cut the strings and stop looking into her world.  You will never find anything that makes much sense.  You need to decide that you want to think and feel for yourself and be an autonomous man who is capable of finding healthy, mutual relationships... . that is, IF that is what you want?  Is it?

[blueman54321]

You are all absolutely correct. I am constantly walking on eggshells and I don't know what I'm doing.

I am still back and forth its just hard to let go of what I thought was real, but the way she is now, like a different person, makes me angry at the same time.

I miss her, that may make me a fool but to me it was real and I'm only human.

Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved... right? That's some grade A bull___.

[blueman54321]

She's absolutely not worth my time I don't know why I'm fixated on her. What is wrong with me.

[Narellan]

It's a hard to break addiction. We all have been/ going through it.

The thing that has helped me to heal is NC . I would never ever had considered NC until I found this information. I was raised to rey to people when spoken to. It was rude not to. This was drummed into me as a kid, so I really struggle with it. But it's been a huge help in the detachment. I was also a bit of a FB junkie, and I deactivated 5 weeks ago. I feel really good about that. I used to frequently read into subliminal messages and ruminate over them. That has stopped now. Also exBPD and my ex best friend are no longer popping up into my vision. They are off my radar now and I can feel a shift in me. Mostly now all the steps I take forward give me renewed confidence that I can best this.

Maybe try NC for a while? See if that makes you feel better.

[blueman54321]

Well I have arranged to go out with her in a week and a half.

She may blow me off if she's found another interest by then, pretty sure she has already as her contact has been cold today.

If it goes ahead, I'll meet with her and be strong, and then go no contact. I do still want a final last meet, and I there are feelings of getting back together with her obviously, but I won't let that show.

Not a great idea probably if it goes ahead, but I want to, I guess I consider this my final last chance, a horizon, if it doesn't happen then then I'll never look back.

[Front runner]

A week and a half sounds like torture! Can't she meet sooner...

[blueman54321]

Yeah she is going cold on me now and on whatsapp every 2 minutes so she has found someone else, coincidence? I think not, I'm a f**king sucker.

[blueman54321]

Yeah she probably could, she said it was due to pay day but who knows could be any reason like she wants to give it time to find someone else, seriously I'm a backup plan, it's so obvious. She is giving me just enough to feed my addiction to keep me like a little puppy.

Where have my balls gone? I think she has them.

[Front runner]

NC is pure hell. But after 5 or so weeks you'll see a tiny shift in the balance of power. And I think (even with their object consistency issues) is the only way to 'win' (probably not the correct phrase) them back and certainly the only way to start again on a level playing field as opposed to offering yourself up on a plate. You have to play hard ball and take the initial nc pain. From that you will gain the strength and realisation you won't die without her although it might feel like it for 4 weeks or so

[Front runner]

I couldn't wait that long only to get dicked around further.

[blueman54321]

I feel that I can do that now, Im emotionally able to cut contact. But I don't want my last memory of her to be a confused, shocked, broken hearted, desperate, crying wreck, which I was 2 weeks after we split when I showed up announced at her door, we spent the afternoon together and I was fed all the toxic bull___ u could expect.

I can do it now, I don't want to however, but I know that day must come for any eventual outcome.

I want to meet her one last time, show her that I am fine without her, have a laugh even and just be friends.

I want to hug her, kiss her on the cheek, get in my car and wave goodbye.

Now I don't know if I'll get that opportunity, if she goes serious with this guy, she may not want to meet me on her only day off. I guess I have to hope they take it slow.

Jesus, someone tell me I'll find someone better than her? I just feel so engrossed that what we had was special, and I loved her, and yeah I know there were a lot of bad times and she utterly screwed me over but she was the love of my life. Will I find someone better?

[blueman54321]

I couldn't wait that long only to get dicked around further.

Yep, it's ___ing hard, I have impulsions to just drive down there and meet her but that will obviously come off desperate.

Trouble is she's like a 2 hour drive away. Doesn't really phase me though apart from the fact it could be a very expensive 10 minutes with her if she goes cold.

I want to get it over and done with. But I have to wait, it has to be consensual.

[Front runner]

That is so painful. So nice of her to squeeze you into her diary. When you ask yourself will you meet someone better. Ask yourself how do you feel now. Good? This is the reality of the relationship. This is what it makes you feel. You will 100% meet someone better.

[blueman54321]

They way things ended just make me feel that there was never any grounds to our near 5 year relationship. Did she ever like me? Love me? Why did she ask me to marry her. Was I really the one for her? Obviously not.

I don't feel worthy of anyone like her again, that is not to say that she is like a god or anything, but she is pretty and fun to be around and there are many things I loved about her.

Is this normal to feel this way? I guess my self-esteems hit an all time low.

[Front runner]

I'm in the same boat. Devaluation comes out of left field. But at this stage both of us are doing more damage by trying to fix/add value to a relationship that both are SO's think are no good. I've gone nc partly in the hope that she might actually miss me at some point... . !

And to try and sort out my co-dependency. We were engaged at one stage. BPD or not they're never going to miss you if they know they've got you on a leash. My advice would be take the risk of nc to get her back and in time you'll get a better perspective on things. I'm in the same boat. It's horrid when they decide not to give a ___ out of the blue but there's nothing we can do about it but release them and hope that find their way back. If they don't it wasn't meant to be.

[Front runner]

Mine like yours was trying to pick up guys online etc. you have to realise they'd rather flirt hook up with anyone as long as it's not us. This is how much value regard they have for us at this stage. There's no point hanging in or chasing that . It's a loosing wicket we both know that. There's nothing you can say or do to change that. Apart from nc. If you want to change that and get self respect back for you and respect in her eyes I'd pull the plug now on your meeting.

[blueman54321]

Yeah you're probably right, it's a wicked situation. On one hand I'm fighting for my love, whereas to her it seems weak, and she has no respect for me. I am just being genuine, whereas with her its a whole other twisted game.

I just want that last meet, perhaps I'll suggest to move it forward a week.

[Narellan]

There's so much pain in these posts guys. I've been there about a month ago.

Blueman54321 I'm so sorry, I have to say from where I'm sitting she's moved on. No last meeting is going to fix anything. If she has BPD she's already split you in her head and there's nothing you can do/say to change that. She walked away. It's painful but a last meeting where you get to walk away and wave goodbye is not how it's going to play out.

Forgive yourself for turning up at her door. You are human and you loved her.

Front runner is absolutely right. You need to cancel the last meet up. Not just to "try to win her back" but because you don't need to be a lamb to the slaughter again. Cancel it for you and NC and grieve the loss. You are stuck trying to work on something that's already over.

I can say from my experience, the longer time goes in your brain filters out all the bs and you do get left with nice memories. My split was particularly devastating too but I don't hold any anger for him and the sadness is starting to leave me now too. I can look back and accept what happened was for the best. As much as I loved him it was the most toxic relationship I've ever been in. And getting over it was like withdrawing from heroin.

Can you do some reading of the resources and lessons on here for detaching. And read through the grief cycle. Your feelings are normal. But they will pass.

Please protect yourself. Take care x

[goldylamont]

Yeah you're probably right, it's a wicked situation. On one hand I'm fighting for my love, whereas to her it seems weak, and she has no respect for me. I am just being genuine, whereas with her its a whole other twisted game.

I just want that last meet, perhaps I'll suggest to move it forward a week.

blueman54321 i want to suggest that you are being selfish here. but i don't mean this not in a bad way, as in you are in general a selfish person. rather, that you are acting selfishly because you are weakened because of the recent ending of an abusive r/s.

thing is, it's ok to be selfish, but i think you know that you are going about it the wrong way.

meeting with her and getting closure are about your needs and desires. not hers. she doesn't seem to care about any of this other than to toy with you. the err in your ways is knowing that she doesn't want or need this but continuing to seek these answers from her.

you are in way too early a position to be thinking whether you'll meet someone else as 'good' as her. way too early and emotional. get to the bottom of what you really considered 'good' about her. was it her looks? she may have a pattern of seeking out men easily mesmerized by her physical features which allows her to control the situation and play out her abusive roles. maybe it's something else, but it's good to question specifically why you think she is the 'best' you may ever meet. it may be as simple as you don't think another girl would be so 'loving' to you, or it could be that you simply think in the looks department she's out of your league... . in any case, get to the bottom of it. then figure out what to do with it from there.

you have the strong need right now to soothe yourself after such an ordeal. and it's natural to want to seek answers from her. but even you are admitting that you know rationally that she doesn't care to help you in this regard. it's not about not having these emotions. it's about finding ways that you don't act out on them to hurt yourself further.

i frequently tell people to learn to trust their gut instincts about situations. and i'm finding that many already know the answers to their questions -- the problem is that they haven't developed the conviction to trust and act on their own instincts.

everyone here is giving good advice, but you already knew the deal and answered it in your first post. these are your words:

Is she testing me? Trying to hurt me?

um, YES and YES. it's that simple. ^^ this stuff is your emotional intelligence and it's telling you "she's trying to hurt me", "she's just testing me". the issue is that you don't trust your own gut here. so you keep setting up meetings 10 days in advance hoping that you yourself are wrong. you can keep doing this for as long as you need to. keep going back and letting her abuse you more until you are finally convinced that your inner voice is correct (even if it's not what you want to be true). if at all possible though, i recommend simply listening to these gut instincts and acting on them. instead of giving her all the power to keep stepping on you, over and over and over into full acceptance. but, perhaps for some this way is easier and more concrete. i'm not here to judge just to make you aware.

[blueman54321]

Well she's angry with me today, I guess thats an inverse relation with how well it's going with this new guy.

I texted her 4 hours ago as she has a default notice for an unpaid bill, and I get I just got this back from her.

"I'll talk to U when im done at 5 now ___ off bombarding mr (me, typo)"

"You are ___ing insane!"

"Blocking you from everything tonight."

It's ___ing really. This is the eggshells in full swing, the devaluation and splitting and everything.

And I'm the insane one.

Should I just ignore her call? It's going to be full of toxicity I guess.

[blueman54321]

And I took the time out to scan and email the letter to her.

Makes me so angry.

I want to initiate no contact, not her. gah.

[blueman54321]

I really do love her, now I have to leave her, it's so hard

[blueman54321]

I said goodbye via text. I'm heartbroken

[Narellan]

You did the right thing blueman54321. The right thing for yourself. You are being abused in the friendship. Our hearts and minds seem to know when enoughs enough, and then the heartbreak comes. You have hit rockbottom now and from my experience that's the rurning point. The only way to go from here is up. Feel and express your sadness and anger. This is how we heal. Take time for yourself now and be true to yourself. NC is the only way to heal.

So no, I wouldn't answer anything from her. Stay strong and move on. Keep your dignity and self respect. We are here for you. 

[blueman54321]

I removed her from Facebook, I'm really struggling. She has yet another date that apparently is going well from her last Facebook post, I guess this was meant to screw it into me as theres no other reason for her to post, she has no friends that follow her and it's been like 1 day.

This is the right thing to do right?

[bruceli]

Well, we have been talking a lot and she said she misses me, even said she'd thought of getting back together but then "mmm nah" was her response... .

Why say that in the first place.

And then goes on to say she's going back on the dating site.

Is she testing me? Trying to hurt me?

Need some perspective, I seem to have forgotten why this girl is bad for me and how she ripped out my heart less than 2 months ago.

I seem to be going backwards at the moment.

Yes and yes.  Things I have been told/heard... . "Why don't you chase me?"... . " I Know I hurt you but I don't know why."... . "I'm on 10 dating sights, some of them XXX rated, why don't you get jealous?"

Hurt people hurt other people to make themselves feel better.

[bruceli]

I removed her from Facebook, I'm really struggling. She has yet another date that apparently is going well from her last Facebook post, I guess this was meant to screw it into me as theres no other reason for her to post, she has no friends that follow her and it's been like 1 day.

This is the right thing to do right?

Depends on what you want.  What do you want?