Thoroughly self defeating person who cannot be helped

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This evening's tale:

We are heading out to dinner in our usual mall. My S8 wants to goes to X restaurant, the same one that he wants every week. My wife said she hates there. Actually it was her original favorite restaurant. My son picks up her habit and make it so repetitious that she now hates it. I know how this story is going to end. My son will keep whining. She will go along grudgingly and end up blaming us for the bad time. This is just not right.

So I intervene and ask her not to go to this place. We should never do this as she dislike it. Instead I ask her to choose a place she really wants to go. Ignore our son's whining. I'll shut him down. I want her to have her way because it is more important to placate her adult tantrum. Despite my repeated request, she never come up with any idea. She just say "that's ok" in a resigned tone. My effort go in vain. Asking what she really like is harder than pulling teeth. why can't she find something she likes to do and be happy about it. She thinks we are compelling her when in fact she is compelling herself.

On our way back she is talk about how she is dreaded to take the two kids to visit her mom because the active boys are going to totally tire her out. I spotted the same pattern of problem. She is complaining strongly about thing she dislike but thought she was compelled to do. I know my coaching can only go so far before she resent it and backfires. Still I repeated my lecture. As expected this turns into a mini-fight. She is bitter for me criticizing her. I ask her how is it a criticism when I ask she to choose to do something she likes and not do anything she does not like? She say unlike me, she cannot choose to have her pleasure at the expense of others. This is a very strange trade off. Of course we should not pleasure ourself at the expense of others. But why couldn't we find something that's is amicable for everyone? Being a parent that's what I do all the time. I deliberate to find activities that entertained everyone at least some of the time.

She objection is the key to understand her logic. In her mind, there are only two extremes. Option 1 is to do something for herself and hurt others. This is immoral and she will not do. So the only other option is to please others at the expense of herself. She do what she think she is compelled to do. And she resent us for it.

We ended tonight's fight with her accusing me for just being a bad husband. No specifics is provided. I'm just a bad husband who do not understand her and cause her grief.

[half-life]

This evening's tale:

We are heading out to dinner in our usual mall. My S8 wants to goes to X restaurant, the same one that he wants every week. My wife said she hates there. Actually it was her original favorite restaurant. My son picks up her habit and make it so repetitious that she now hates it. I know how this story is going to end. My son will keep whining. She will go along grudgingly and end up blaming us for the bad time. This is just not right.

So I intervene and ask her not to go to this place. We should never do this as she dislike it. Instead I ask her to choose a place she really wants to go. Ignore our son's whining. I'll shut him down. I want her to have her way because it is more important to placate her adult tantrum. Despite my repeated request, she never come up with any idea. She just say "that's ok" in a resigned tone. My effort go in vain. Asking what she really like is harder than pulling teeth. why can't she find something she likes to do and be happy about it. She thinks we are compelling her when in fact she is compelling herself.

On our way back she is talk about how she is dreaded to take the two kids to visit her mom because the active boys are going to totally tire her out. I spotted the same pattern of problem. She is complaining strongly about thing she dislike but thought she was compelled to do. I know my coaching can only go so far before she resent it and backfires. Still I repeated my lecture. As expected this turns into a mini-fight. She is bitter for me criticizing her. I ask her how is it a criticism when I ask she to choose to do something she likes and not do anything she does not like? She say unlike me, she cannot choose to have her pleasure at the expense of others. This is a very strange trade off. Of course we should not pleasure ourself at the expense of others. But why couldn't we find something that's is amicable for everyone? Being a parent that's what I do all the time. I deliberate to find activities that entertained everyone at least some of the time.

She objection is the key to understand her logic. In her mind, there are only two extremes. Option 1 is to do something for herself and hurt others. This is immoral and she will not do. So the only other option is to please others at the expense of herself. She do what she think she is compelled to do. And she resent us for it.

We ended tonight's fight with her accusing me for just being a bad husband. No specifics is provided. I'm just a bad husband who do not understand her and cause her grief.

[AwakenedOne]

We ended tonight's fight with her accusing me for just being a bad husband. No specifics is provided. I'm just a bad husband who do not understand her and cause her grief.

Hi half-life,

I was called a bad husband a lot by my uBPDstbxw. Bad to her = I didn't do everything she wanted.  Are you both still together or is it just the night out with your child? I read your old posts can't figure out if your together or not. If your staying or undecided you might get more helpful advice on those boards. I feel for you, she sounds quite unreasonable. Just don't believe your bad, it's just something she says because she's mad at you for whatever reason. I hope you and your son had some fun out at least.  

Peace,

AO

[half-life]

We are still together. I am just venting. But in a few weeks I will prepare and gather the courage to tell her we will be separating. Our bonding has long been over-drafted. After I get to know BPD I can see her in great clarity. I know things with her are not going to get any better. We are still together only because of bad reasons like inertia and conflict avoidance. Another problem is I have no one to turn to because I have not build and maintain a strong social network.

[OutOfEgypt]

Another problem is I have no one to turn to because I have not build and maintain a strong social network.

Don't beat yourself up about this.  I KNOW how it goes.  First of all, it's like you don't have time to because all of your emotional energy is spent dealing with them.  Secondly, you avoid close social bonds with people because you feel ashamed of what is going on (and what you know, to some degree, you are allowing to go on) and you feel badly that you are so consumed by all of this garbage.  Thirdly, the BPD in your life hates so many people that it is difficult for you to keep relationships with many people without pissing the BPD person off and triggering their feeling that you are somehow "not on their side"... . more guilt, more blame, more explosions.  So... . its not worth it.  Fourth, the emotional toll from all of the blaming and destruction of any self-respect and self-esteem you have leaves you depressed and not feeling like you want to be close to anyone.  Fifth, the BPD tells you that you are essentially a loser and don't have any friends and essentially says, "It's not my fault... . you just choose to be a loser," which only makes you feel more depressed and angry inside (see #4).  About right?

[ATLandon]

Another problem is I have no one to turn to because I have not build and maintain a strong social network.

Don't beat yourself up about this.  I KNOW how it goes.  First of all, it's like you don't have time to because all of your emotional energy is spent dealing with them.  Secondly, you avoid close social bonds with people because you feel ashamed of what is going on (and what you know, to some degree, you are allowing to go on) and you feel badly that you are so consumed by all of this garbage.  Thirdly, the BPD in your life hates so many people that it is difficult for you to keep relationships with many people without pissing the BPD person off and triggering their feeling that you are somehow "not on their side"... . more guilt, more blame, more explosions.  So... . its not worth it.  Fourth, the emotional toll from all of the blaming and destruction of any self-respect and self-esteem you have leaves you depressed and not feeling like you want to be close to anyone.  Fifth, the BPD tells you that you are essentially a loser and don't have any friends and essentially says, "It's not my fault... . you just choose to be a loser," which only makes you feel more depressed and angry inside (see #4).  About right?

So you just summed up my entire relationship in one paragraph. I always struggled to find the words to explain my social/family issues and you just hit the bullseye, OutOfEgypt! It is an exhausting and degrading vicious cycle.

[OutOfEgypt]

It sucks.  I'm sorry you've gone through that, but it is really confirming to hear that its the same for others.  My uBPDexw and I are not together any more, and I can't tell you how freeing it is.  I have so many old friends and restored relationships... . my family, even her family, old friends, and new.  It is nice.  And my kids are thankful, too.  My eldest daughter has noticed this black cloud that has kept us all isolated for years, too, and she is relieved that she can see her grandmother and other relatives and friends once again.

[half-life]

First of all, it's like you don't have time to because all of your emotional energy is spent dealing with them.  Secondly, you avoid close social bonds with people because you feel ashamed of what is going on (and what you know, to some degree, you are allowing to go on) and you feel badly that you are so consumed by all of this garbage.  Thirdly, the BPD in your life hates so many people that it is difficult for you to keep relationships with many people without pissing the BPD person off and triggering their feeling that you are somehow "not on their side"... . more guilt, more blame, more explosions.  So... . its not worth it.  Fourth, the emotional toll from all of the blaming and destruction of any self-respect and self-esteem you have leaves you depressed and not feeling like you want to be close to anyone.  Fifth, the BPD tells you that you are essentially a loser and don't have any friends and essentially says, "It's not my fault... . you just choose to be a loser," which only makes you feel more depressed and angry inside (see #4).  About right?

There are a lot of truth in this. She is now in a phrase to shun one of her best friend of over 20 years. She is telling everyone how she never think much of their relationship and do not see any point of having further contact. Nothing happened between them other than they gradually seeing each other less due to distance and their own family and busy life. I told her this is the same thing that happen to every single one of my friends. I regret this but I will be happy to reconnect with them whenever we have chance. She show me one of the best friend's recent SMS that triggered this fallout. I find it a rather genuine message reminiscing of the time they were closer together. My wife read it in a completely negative way. She show this SMS to many people asking for how they think. Some say her best friend means bad. This validates her view so she keep talking about the message and how she will never care to contact her again. My view does not align with hers and is toss out of the window altogether.

One occasion I dread is the annual company holiday party. The last time we went together was more than 5 years ago. She said she want to go. But she was not really enjoying meeting new people. This made the time rather awkward. From then on I go on my own, making excuses that we cannot both go because we don't have child care (which is a truth). I'm socially awkward myself. But at least I tried to initiate conversations and enjoyed it from time to time. My of my coworkers bring their SO to party. I've observed many couples are affectionate and have real connections. This makes me feel bad for myself.

It is true that I put some blame on her for zapping my energy. But still I own it to myself and my kids to have a good social support. I look forward for the day when I am completely responsible for my own action.

[Littleleft]

Don't beat yourself up about this.  I KNOW how it goes.  First of all, it's like you don't have time to because all of your emotional energy is spent dealing with them.  Secondly, you avoid close social bonds with people because you feel ashamed of what is going on (and what you know, to some degree, you are allowing to go on) and you feel badly that you are so consumed by all of this garbage.  Thirdly, the BPD in your life hates so many people that it is difficult for you to keep relationships with many people without pissing the BPD person off and triggering their feeling that you are somehow "not on their side"... . more guilt, more blame, more explosions.  So... . its not worth it.  Fourth, the emotional toll from all of the blaming and destruction of any self-respect and self-esteem you have leaves you depressed and not feeling like you want to be close to anyone.  Fifth, the BPD tells you that you are essentially a loser and don't have any friends and essentially says, "It's not my fault... . you just choose to be a loser," which only makes you feel more depressed and angry inside (see #4).  About right?

This is incredibly accurate for me too!  It's something I've only realised fairly recently and I can't believe it didn't hit me earlier.  (I've been in the r/s with my pwBPD 12 years!) I've been so caught up in the BPD whirlwind that I've completely neglected myself and my life.  It's only now that I'm starting to think I can't stay in the relationship that I've started to see things for what they are, both in terms of how he's behaving (my SO/pwBPD) and what I've let happen.