Back again

[louise 716]

I've posted before but can't find my log in info so started over.

I have a dil who I believe has a borderline personality disorder - narcissist. What I recently discovered she does is to constantly go over the past. Most recently, something I said In passing 4 years ago. She tries to dictate my relationships with other people - I won't let that happen.

What I'm really wondering about is this business of always bringing up the past. Isn't that part of some specific disorder? Who else has experience with something similar?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[arn131arn]

I've posted before but can't find my log in info so started over.

I have a dil who I believe has a borderline personality disorder - narcissist. What I recently discovered she does is to constantly go over the past. Most recently, something I said In passing 4 years ago. She tries to dictate my relationships with other people - I won't let that happen.

What I'm really wondering about is this business of always bringing up the past. Isn't that part of some specific disorder? Who else has experience with something similar?

Thesis,  

My experience is that my son's mother who is undiagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, used to always grill me about things I had done wrong in the past. Being unable to forgive and move on, let little slights go, and constant reminders of the mistakes you make is a form to keep you under their control. A form to keep you off balance with constant worrying about when the next shoe will drop.

What exact disorder? I really don't know.

Help me understand what a dil is? And how long have you been in a relationship with said dil?

Thanks,

Arn

[jellibeans]

Dear louise716

welcome back... . I remember your story and your relationship with you DIL (daughter in law)

Reliving the past is something my dd does a lot. We never seem to be really free of it and at times I have been drawn in to rehashing this old problem. The augement that never ends. The hurt that never heals. When she brings up an old hurt I use set... . acknowledge her hurt and try to move on as quickly as possible. Maybe during this time you can just let her talk and not try to defend yourself.

[Rapt Reader]

Hello, louise 716 and I'd like to join arn131arn and jellibeans in welcoming you back to the site, although I'm sorry that you have the need to be here (like all of us   ). I've read your post on the Coping & Healing Board, also (the past - won't let it die) that has more details, and I can relate actually to your situation. My own beautiful, charismatic and intelligent Daughter-In-Law has most of the same symptoms and behaviors as yours. My Mother-In-Law is exactly like your D-I-L, and it really can cause so much angst and heartache when these things happen... .

My adult (37) son was diagnosed with Low Functioning BPD a year ago (unlike my D-I-L & M-I-L, who are undiagnosed, but who I believe are High Functioning BPD), and he doesn't have the specific behavior that you are describing; it is the other 2 loved ones of mine that do not want to let go of past perceived hurts and offenses. My M-I-L is worse though; my D-I-L will not bring them up as much. So, in answer to your question, this can be part of BPD, but isn't always.

From your post on the Coping/Healing Board, I see that she has currently been No Contact with you since Christmas 2012 (though she will talk to your husband), and you haven't had a conversation with your son--her husband--since last September. I'm curious as to what you would like to do with these relationships? Are you interested in working things out with them so that you can talk to them and have things easier than in the past?

What I've learned with my own BPD loved ones is that though I cannot change anyone but myself, once I learned all about how their minds worked and how to communicate with them in a way that doesn't push all their buttons, they in turn changed the way they reacted to me. And things have gotten so much better... . The No Contact that my D-I-L had instated in order to put her "boundaries" in place has melted away, and I've had a good relationship with her ever since. You can learn more about how that happened by reading this Workshop: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life? This Article here also has been invaluable to me in my quest to improve my relatiohships: Radical Acceptance for family members.

You say you've been on this site in the past; have you had the chance to read any of the Workshops and Articles on this site before? Have you seen any of the Videos? A great place to start is with the 2 links I just gave you, and also all of the LINKS to the right-hand side of this page, and also on the page on the Coping & Healing Board. This relationship with your D-I-L has been going on for a long time, louise 716, so there is no "quick fix" to it, but my own relationship with my D-I-L is more than 10 years old, and I've known my M-I-L for 42 years! And miraculously enough, both relationships are much better now that I understand how to deal with them in a better way. There is hope, and things can get easier  

[louise 716]

Good Morning,

Thanks for replying. I appreciate the input/feedback. I don't have lots of time to write this morning (slept in, gotta get ready for work) but I did want to thank you for replying.

Rapt you asked, "I'm curious as to what you would like to do with these relationships? Are you interested in working things out with them so that you can talk to them and have things easier than in the past?" - honestly, I would be perfectly fine if I could just have a relationship with my son and not my DIL.  I understand that probably isn't likely.  What kind of a relationship could it possibly be if she is always finding something in a conversation or event to twist to make her out to be the targeted victim?  Every gathering or conversation I would be so guarded knowing something is going to come back to bite me at some point in time.

Part of my problem with dealing with this whole thing is that it has already sucked up WAY too much of my energy/life. I've learned enough about BPD to know it's serious. I would rather spend my energy in learning how this effects my son than reading up on ways to deal with her insanity - and that's what it is - insane to keep bringing up random things from ages ago.  Better yet, I'd rather deal with other parts of life like have fun thinking about my other son getting married in less than a week than deal with bunch of garbage.

ARN, the argument that never ends ... . I've started to liken all that to a round about. Some one has got to get off! My son and DIL (daughter in law) have been married 7 years.

I do need to learn the SET thing. I tried to read up on it, but I can't seem to figure it out. I think what I need to do is have you guys help me. Later, when I have more time, I think what I need to do is give an example of stuff she says and then have one of you tell me what the SET response would be.

I know I've watched some videos. Rapt, later today I'll double check the links you provided. Thanks.

[pessim-optimist]

Hello louise716, 

welcome to the boards!

I see what you are saying... . When we get to the point that it takes up too much of our energy and starts consuming our life, it's time to step back and figure out a way to keep this issue at bay a bit. You are working on that, and that's good. 

I would rather spend my energy in learning how this effects my son than reading up on ways to deal with her insanity - and that's what it is - insane to keep bringing up random things from ages ago.

I also see that you are a loving mama, and understanding how it effects your son is important, however, he will need to do his own studying too, to be able to deal with it. Otherwise you will just be an informed onlooker... . You can point him to resources, he will need to see the light for himself though.

Better yet, I'd rather deal with other parts of life like have fun thinking about my other son getting married in less than a week than deal with bunch of garbage.

That's a good observation! I'd take your advice on that one.

I do need to learn the SET thing. I tried to read up on it, but I can't seem to figure it out. I think what I need to do is have you guys help me. Later, when I have more time, I think what I need to do is give an example of stuff she says and then have one of you tell me what the SET response would be.

We're here for you, we'll be happy to help, louise!

[louise 716]

Re SET: okay ... . So let's take the scenario of what happened recently ... . Son and dil go to dh's place of business (fast food). Dh hadn't seen dil in 16 mo. Dh's is working. Conversation is okay for the most part until the end when dil tells dh "your wife and x have said some horrible things to me." ... . "I'm not the evil person your wife thinks I am." She didn't even use my name. Anyway, using set ... . What could dh have said in that instance.

Upcoming wedding the end of June where we will be. Since dil came to dh's store and tried to bring up the past, I don't put it past her to do the same at the wedding. What can I say if she tries to bring it up? A. It's not the right venue. B. I'm tired of going over all this garbage.

What could dh have said when he visited them and they brought it up again?

[Rapt Reader]

Hey, louise 716  

You don't need to go into detail as to what it is that your D-I-L thinks you said to her in the past if it's not important for us to know in order to help you with a S.E.T. script, but do you know what it is about the supposed "horrible things" that have hurt her? Do you have an idea of what she is feeling about what was said (or what she thought you said) that is causing her to think you think she is "evil"? Do you know what her issues actually are, deep down?

The reason I ask is because for a S.E.T. dialogue to really work, we need to reach into our loved one's inner child and find out just what is hurting him/her. It doesn't actually need to make sense to us, or feel like it is justified to us, but we do need to understand the feelings behind the hurt and outrage, or whatever it is that is driving our loved one to obsess over the supposed offense. Without knowing that, S.E.T. really doesn't "work"... . We aren't using it to "shut down" their feelings, but to understand, empathize and validate them, to be able to let them know our own truth of the situation.

To Support, we need to know what issue it is we are validating for them.

To Empathize, we need to know what feelings are driving their obsession.

To tell them the Truth, we need to understand their points above, so we can tell them what we know to be our truth about the situation in a loving, firm--but friendly if possible--way.

[louise 716]

Rapt,

Dil thinks/feels I don't accept her. That I like/accept other sons bride to be more and she hasn't been  in the family as long. (Yes frankly I do like her more, but that's beside the point. Bride to be likes me. Accepts me, etc).  Son writes/texts that I need to accept her as his wife.

Does that help?

[hopeangel]

Hi Louise! 

My own dd will never stop ruminating on the past and things I did or said wrong and things others did or said wrong, some of which she has distorted out of all recognition and we are then talking about two seperate things - me from the angle of what really happened and her from her skewed perception that she was victimized in some way.

These are classic BPD traits - ruminating, having skewed perceptions also feelings of abuse where none was intended, all these symptoms are part of the BPD condition which causes that person a great deal of emotional pain and distress. Their brains work differently from ours and the have not the ability to see things how we do.

Now before I found out the above I would get very annoyed at all the unreasonable accusations but i have now learned to find SOMETHING to validate and apologise for since that is the only way to connect with them and get them to hear you again, they cannot 'hear' the things we say to them when we just apply logic, we have to meet them half way and speak their language.

In your shoes I think I would try to speak to dil and say something like 'I am thinking that you feel I don't like you as much as (other dil), I am so sorry if I have made you feel like that in any way, It has not been my intention to make you think that, maybe we have misunderstood each other at some point but I really do want things to be right between us and I hope that you can accept that I do want a good relationship with you and I do like you and accept you into the family, I hope that you can accept me too and accept my apology for anything I have said to make you feel I don't like you, please can we get along I DO want you to be in my family!'

Or something similar, I am not condoning lying but in the case of BPD I do feel 'fake it till you make it' is ok because one of the worst things you can say to a person with BPD is 'I don't like you, I don't want you around, it's all YOUR fault'  the root of the condition is extreme shame and self-loathing which they will project onto anyone and everyone else so that is where we need to show compassion for that pain and instead of absorbing it ourselves try to soothe it with our words to them.

I am aware that what I just suggested is not strictly SET, which is a fantastic tool but I am going with validation here as I think the dil is feeling like she doesnt fit in so she has 'made it fit' in her mind that something was said to her because she feels unworthy, as pwBPD all do.

I have done so much wrong in the past communications with my dd but now I understand it is not a normal relationship and never can be - we are always dealing with a disordered person but there are ways to connect with that person no matter how frustrating it is and in this case it seems essential or your relationship with your son could be at risk.

I wish you very best of luck with this, its very tricky! 

[madmom]

I think hopeangel has some very valid points about validation.  I wonder if you acknowledged her pain and anger and said something like ---I see you are very upset about some of the things that have been said in the past.  I am sorry that maybe I haven't listened well and understood the pain you are in.  I want to work on a positive relationship with you.  I know I am pretty overwhelmed and distracted with the wedding right now, but would you be willing in the near future  to sit down with me (you could include son and or husband in this also if you think it would be helpful and not get of control) and talk about what is bothering you and maybe together we can make this better for both of us?  In the meantime enjoy the wedding (I recently had one of those of my own) and use the time to read about and practice SET for the time when the two of you can sit down and talk.  (I am new to all of this, so my advice might not be worth a darn)  I will tell you, this week I did something similar with my BPDD26 and had some pretty good success.  I found that the problem I think I was having with her, was my own anger and feelings and once I kept those in control and could validate and empathize with her feelings she was much more willing to work with me on a problem and I wasn't so resentful about dealing with the situation.  Good luck and let us know how things go.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

These are classic BPD traits - ruminating, having skewed perceptions also feelings of abuse where none was intended, all these symptoms are part of the BPD condition which causes that person a great deal of emotional pain and distress. Their brains work differently from ours and the have not the ability to see things how we do.

In your shoes I think I would try to speak to dil and say something like 'I am thinking that you feel I don't like you as much as (other dil), I am so sorry if I have made you feel like that in any way, It has not been my intention to make you think that, maybe we have misunderstood each other at some point but I really do want things to be right between us and I hope that you can accept that I do want a good relationship with you and I do like you and accept you into the family, I hope that you can accept me too and accept my apology for anything I have said to make you feel I don't like you, please can we get along I DO want you to be in my family!'



I have done so much wrong in the past communications with my dd but now I understand it is not a normal relationship and never can be - we are always dealing with a disordered person but there are ways to connect with that person no matter how frustrating it is and in this case it seems essential or your relationship with your son could be at risk.

Everything hopeangel posted is very true; this information above is key, and what I've bolded is a very good conversation to have with your D-I-L  

I think hopeangel has some very valid points about validation.  I wonder if you acknowledged her pain and anger and said something like ---I see you are very upset about some of the things that have been said in the past.  I am sorry that maybe I haven't listened well and understood the pain you are in.  I want to work on a positive relationship with you.  I know I am pretty overwhelmed and distracted with the wedding right now, but would you be willing in the near future  to sit down with me (you could include son and or husband in this also if you think it would be helpful and not get of control) and talk about what is bothering you and maybe together we can make this better for both of us?  In the meantime enjoy the wedding (I recently had one of those of my own) and use the time to read about and practice SET for the time when the two of you can sit down and talk.  (I am new to all of this, so my advice might not be worth a darn)  I will tell you, this week I did something similar with my BPDD26 and had some pretty good success. I found that the problem I think I was having with her, was my own anger and feelings and once I kept those in control and could validate and empathize with her feelings she was much more willing to work with me on a problem and I wasn't so resentful about dealing with the situation.

Again, everything tr has said is very important and true; what I bolded above is also key to understanding and communicating with our BPD loved ones  

[louise 716]

Good morning, everyone.

Thanks for your help and suggestions re: SET. I appreciate everyone's time in helping me to figure out how to communicate with said DIL. Your comments and suggestions remind me of the root of her problem.  Now, the next step is to implement it when I have the opportunity. Her mom and uncle come today from overseas and will be staying for 6 weeks or so. The next opportunity I foresee is towards the end of June if she attends a wedding we've been invited to.

[louise 716]

Rapt,

I shared with my husband what you wrote.  At some point I might copy/paste what you suggested I say changing it here and there and send it to dil.

Thanks.