the past - won't let it die

[louise 716]

Good morning everyone,

Maybe someone can help me. I haven't posted often, but some might remember I have the DIL who I believe has BPD/N. She has managed to isolate my son - I believe that he is in what I consider an emotionally abuse relationship. I haven't talked to my son since he drunk dialed me last September and I haven't talked to her since Christmas 2012.  I should say ... . THEY haven't talked to me. I'm willing to talk to them but they won't.

Anyway, DH just went to visit them. They moved over a year ago about 2 hours away. So DH is having a conversation with them and DIL brings up an event from 4 YEARS ago - apparently I said something that she was offended by. We have had to apologize for Christmas of 2006, I can't tell you how many times. She thinks my daughters gave my other son's girlfriend at the time more thoughtful gifts than they gave her, but in reality the particular gift she is talking about came from the girlfriend's own sister. A prime example of anything we say/don't say do/don't do can and will be held against us - we didn't even give the gift and we are being held accountable for that.  She wants to know why I like/accept other son's girlfriend more than her ... . she says to DH "Is it because I am not American?" I can tell you that doesn't even enter into it.

Based on this recent visit DH had with son and DIL, I really don't see this relationship with DIL working because you never know what transgression you might be held accountable for and when ... . it could be 5 years from now. You treat her better than you do me. You watch her kid but you said you won't watch mine (they don't even have kids ... . it was a general statement taken out of context).

Isn't there some specific mental health issue where people glom onto various isolated incidents from the past and won't let it go or this all just a part of the BPD?

How can a person have a relationship with someone who tries to control your relationships with other people and who keeps bringing up stuff you have loong since forgot about.

[lucyhoneychurch]

Wow... . what a roller coaster of garbage.  So sorry... . this brings back alot of my interactions with my own mother.

Nothing you did thought said tried imagined dreamed of - nothing was ever right.

It boils down to this ingenious notion that we do not have to JADE... . Justify, Account, (ummmm what's D ) DEFEND, or Explain.

So when my mother would start before I went NC with her the last 10 years of her life, when I was still in the dark about any kind of personality disorder (never dx'd but it fits so so well, the BPD behaviors) I had had just enough to constantly repeat, "I'm sorry, I won't discuss that with you."

Being my mother, of course I had to tell her, answer her! No, actually I didn't and some little stubborn thing in me - my own years as a good mom at that point - were steering me in the right direction - No I don't have to tell you how much my chidlren's father makes, no I don't have to tell you why I wanted more privacy fence or picked those colors of crape myrtles... .

When this young woman falsely accuses you of motives you do not have, you do not have to battle her accusations.

Don't attempt to fix the record of who said what when.

It's crap anyway.

JADE... . don't do it.

If some angelic being came down and enlightened her that this was really how that gift giving went... . she'd give the angel hell too.

I would witness my mother create a situation with someone... . give her one day maybe even an hour... and she was the target, she was the victim... . wow... .

I'm sorry you are alienated from your son. Sometimes an in-between person like he's having to be just tries to ride out the storm of living with an abuser.

Know inside he loves you.

I'm very sorry.

Maintain your dignity and don't hesitate to speak your truth... . but only when you don't care if the dynamics stay the same... . she can't be fixed by semantics or truth.

It's very sad.   

[louise 716]

Lucy,

Thanks for replying. To be honest, I completely forgot about JADE, bec with them not talking to me, I kind of had a break and didn't really have to think much about this garbage.

I can just imagine how it would go over with my dil if I said I won't discuss something with her. I have a feeling that part of the reason why this is stirred up is bec we are all attending the same wedding the end of June. She'll have to face us. Not that we're going to say anything, but she will see us there.

I hate this mental illness. It really seems like there is no hope for having a decent relationship with these people. So many games to play and so much dancing.

[lucyhoneychurch]

Just because it won't go over well with the dil if you say you won't discuss something that's none of her beeswax... . which i get totally, you know you'd be in for the next rampage... .

Doesn't mean you have to suck up any more insanity.

They can really use their entitlement to rages as leverage to keep banging us about.

I watched a really loving friend shut down a man I know, and for whom I carry a great deal of affection... . he would start his "stuff," and she would simply pick up a newspaper, like ho hum... . I ate it up not because he was being punished, but she was making it clear after attempting to address his stupid remarks... . that she would find something better to do. He stopped coming around while she was here for a lengthy visit and I swear... . it was some of the best peace and quiet I've had recently .

She told me, though, it was safe for her to do that as she was going to get on a plane and leave... . she knew I was the one whose driveway is always open to him... .

But it was effective. He was shocked that he didn't have a captive audience (which is normally me) fearing ever saying, Look , this sin't a good time... . or Sorry not going to listen/discuss that.

I was empowered by watching her practice this boundary. I've used it since then, verbalizing that I won't absorb it... . and he has no place to go but elsewhere or other topix. 

It does work.

You simply have to not care about the fallout.

[Legacymaker]

Good to see you back LucyHoneyChurch!  Your advice is always so sound and nourishes many of our lost souls!

Louise 716,

I can offer you no better advice than that given by Lucy, she is one of my hero's!  I just want you to know that you are not alone in your frustrations.  I'm pretty sure my mother keeps a scorecard and pen with her at all times.  There is a constant record of the many ways I fail her!  Our last argument at Christmas went back over 30 years of history!

I am currently trying to remember the lessons of JADE, as I respond to her pages long definition of my character.  It is really difficult to lovingly interact with people when they want to constantly point out all of your failings (real and/or perceived).  It is also easy to want to turn the finger right back around and point it back at them when they offer nothing but criticism, condemnation and control.

Understanding this illness requires great tolerance.  My therapist had me read a wonderful book called "The Dance of Anger", that might help you too.  She described it to me as dancing a square dance with a person, while always following the announcers directions.  She asked what the structure might look like, if just one person chose to step out of the prescribed square.  That visual brought it home for me.  It has taken me half a century to realize that I can only change myself!  Unfortunately, my family will continue repeating the same pre-patterned steps until the day they die.   Surprisingly, it will be one of my own mother's lessons that I carry forward with me.  She use to say, "what's the sound of one hand clapping?"    

Being the mother of 3 son's, I feel your pain.  Keep loving your son the way you always have, he will feel and see that.   Now I'm off to modify my response letter to my mother for the 100th time, as I keep trying to remove my JADING comments from the context!   

[lucyhoneychurch]

Yes, Legacy      this comment of yours is so pertinent:

"... . described it to me as dancing a square dance with a person, while always following the announcers directions.  She asked what the structure might look like, if just one person chose to step out of the prescribed square."

The structure would look like... . disaster... . I was in marching band in high school, for the life of me could NOT play and march in formation at same time, I am talking those flowing designs you see at halftime shows that take your breath away... . all relying on perfect synchronicity and timing. Well someone out there with two left feet, unable to blow the instrument and not turn in wrong direction    that was me... . so embarrassing... . I pretended about the music and watched one of my little girlfriend's feet in utter panic... .

Our band director an ogre of a man - I would've been tarred and feathered for ruining his pretty routine - and he stood way way up on a platform, wouldn't let our drum major keep it going - so he could SEEEEEEE who was screwing up... . practice, performance... . dread dread dread...

Yes a dance.

Most of us in society dance to the tune of, I do my thing, you do yours.

I believe people with disordered thinking simply cannot tolerate or won't tolerate their demands and needs not being met instantly and thoroughly. No compromise.  No parlee.  No meeting in the middle.

The dance falls apart.

Our role, when Louise's DIL tries to *make* her dance - Louise gets to sit this one out.

Louise, as an autonomous human being, can decide who she answers to or not.

We don't have to play or dance. We can pick up our marbles and go home [mentally].    

[Legacymaker]

Hey I just had a thought Louise and Lucy... . what if we find one more like minded person to join us for a new square dance... . then we could have a whole new set of partners to dance with... . minus an announcer!  We could write our own scripts and dance our own dance.  Wouldn't that be lovely?


Lucy, I too played an instrument.  I loved band... . my challenge was college German.  My tongue was the same as your feet and my teacher the same as your ogre  .  He made me feel like a bumbling idiot!  In November, I went on a 4 day trip to Germany.  Using a different style of teaching, I decided to spend the 4 months before the trip, learning conversational German (just for mental challenge and yes, gasp for fun). This was another condemnation of my mother's, as she constantly pointed out what a waste of time it was.  Her husband works for a German company.  She mocked me to his co-workers when I attempted to converse and ridiculed me every time I used my skills.

I am slowly learning to let go of my co-dependency and enmeshment issues.  It is very hard to learn to "dance" by myself, but I am trying.  

Louise, it is unfortunate that this wedding is causing anxiety. It takes all the fun out of an event.  I can really relate.  I hope you will be able to enjoy the day without any incidents.  :)o you practice any form of meditation?  Last year I had to attend a mediation with my mother and brother.  In an attempt to put our family together again, my brother had organized it.  My brother is NPD and following an incident that I had called him out on his behavior, he hadn't spoken to me for 3 years, my mother for 1 1/2.  I was sick with the anticipation of another major blowup, of having to put our feelings out on the table,  the fighting that was sure to happen and the hostility that would ensue.  For the first time in my life, I sought therapy for myself.  I could approach him and my mother with some new tools.  Meditation was one of the new things I tried.  As expected, nothing has really changed with my family dynamics.  I must be the one to remain passive if I want any form of relationship (not recommending this for you, if it is not what you want, its just the way my family functions).   My brother at least communicates with me now, but "accepting" that he and my mother will always keep a mental checklist of the many wrongs committed against them, brings me some peace.  I have finally realized that me expressing my views will never change their perceptions.  I am trying to be the consumate flower child and wish them nothing but love and peace  The meditation really helps me to send those messages of love to them and to keep my thoughts focused on the here and now for myself.  Maybe it is another tool you might find some comfort in too.