Biblical marriage possible at all? Husband is BPD

[lizzie458]

Well, things were going great for the last year and a half.  DH was getting some relief from the BPD, and though it wasn't through DBT (he wouldn't do it) I didn't really care because I was just so relieved things were better for the time being.  As with most of us though, I'm coming back around again because his BPD has been flaring up for the last 6 mo or so and came to a head with an emotionally abusive email he sent me last night.

Obviously I have higher priorities than this (revamping boundaries, boning up on communication techniques, etc), but the question came up - are there any women non's out there married to BP's who are maintaining anything resembling a biblical marriage?  I'm trying to reconcile if/when/how submission fits in to this.  This is the main issue he is struggling with - he feels like he "doesn't get to make decisions" as the leader in our relationship, so he's trying to force me into weaning our son before our son and I are ready.  He's not a good leader.  He's been incredibly foolish recently and wanting to make selfish decisions for his own benefit that I believe are not in the best interest of our family.  The funny thing is, with the last big decision he was contemplating I don't even remember "putting my foot down" - usually him hearing my opinion (which is often different from his) is enough for him to just assume that I won't go along with whatever he wants (of course, this perpetuates the dynamic in his head that he's the child and I'm the parent).  I'm just curious if there are any other women out there who have found ways to make it work with their BP.  "Biblical marriage" to me means when there is a question of which road to take, the husband and wife discuss it - ultimately if there is still disagreement, she submits to her husband's decision, who in turn makes decisions based on what he thinks is best for the family.  I do not believ in submission at all costs, especially not in the face of the emotional abuse he's spewing right now.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[WalrusGumboot]

I'm not a woman but have a few comments, being a Christian.

"Biblical marriage" to me means when there is a question of which road to take, the husband and wife discuss it - ultimately if there is still disagreement, she submits to her husband's decision, who in turn makes decisions based on what he thinks is best for the family. 

I believe a man is the head of the household, but the woman, the heart of the household. A wise man will consider the counsel of his wise wife. Men and woman are made differently for a reason besides reproduction. A man of the house is the servant of his household. We actually serve one another, but "headship" doesn't mean you sit as a king and be served by your subjects. Who was the greatest servant of all? Jesus. He was the perfect example.

I do not believ in submission at all costs, especially not in the face of the emotional abuse he's spewing right now.

We are commanded to have peace in the household. If somebody is living in disobedience, like your husband, you cannot assume he is making sound decisions for you or your family. I don't think God intends any person to be subject to abusive behavior within a Christian household.

[going places]

A "Biblical" home must consist of a husband and wife that are both Believers, and Followers of Christ.

Men who are Believers and Followers of Christ, have strong, deep rooted knowledge of His Word, and daily seek to be 'more like Christ' based upon His Word.

Ditto for women.

Men are given clear, detailed descriptions of what the Lord expects of them.

Ditto for women.

If you are unequally yoked, then there is no Biblical marriage to work on, or maintain.

All an individual, who IS a Believer and Follower can do is work on THEIR personal relationship with Christ.

Which is why God told us NOT to be unequally yoked

Ephesians 5, especially 21-33

Wives get one verse, 22.

Husbands get 10 VERY detailed verses.

Verse 22 is a piece of cake when 23-33 are executed.

[formflier]

Hey... . hang in there.  I face the opposite problem.  Years ago we had a traditional biblical marriage.  Then slowly but surely I got pushed out of control.  Conflict kept escalating.

I probably let "the church" (Conservative Baptist that believed in Biblical Counseling) deal with the undiagnosed problem for far to long.  Many thought is a reflection of my poor leadership in the home.  When in reality it is a personality disorder. 

I'm only saying that because I want to make sure that this is being medically addressed through professional counseling that is not under the oversight of "the church".  I still believe in Biblical Counseling but I believe both husband and wife have to be on the same playing field for that to work.

Here is another thought.  If I read right... . he refused DBT but does acknowledge there is a problem and gets some counseling for it... . correct?

What does he refuse DBT?

If he is a conservative Christian then the one place the church may help is in the form of church discipline.  If a man is refusing to get help... . and that help would allow him to better love his wife and lead his family... . that is something church leadership needs to know about.

If they are good guys... they won't get after him right away but will be more encouraging.  However... . he needs to crank up the treatment.

Let us know how this goes!

Well, things were going great for the last year and a half.  DH was getting some relief from the BPD, and though it wasn't through DBT (he wouldn't do it) I didn't really care because I was just so relieved things were better for the time being.  As with most of us though, I'm coming back around again because his BPD has been flaring up for the last 6 mo or so and came to a head with an emotionally abusive email he sent me last night.

Obviously I have higher priorities than this (revamping boundaries, boning up on communication techniques, etc), but the question came up - are there any women non's out there married to BP's who are maintaining anything resembling a biblical marriage?  I'm trying to reconcile if/when/how submission fits in to this.  This is the main issue he is struggling with - he feels like he "doesn't get to make decisions" as the leader in our relationship, so he's trying to force me into weaning our son before our son and I are ready.  He's not a good leader.  He's been incredibly foolish recently and wanting to make selfish decisions for his own benefit that I believe are not in the best interest of our family.  The funny thing is, with the last big decision he was contemplating I don't even remember "putting my foot down" - usually him hearing my opinion (which is often different from his) is enough for him to just assume that I won't go along with whatever he wants (of course, this perpetuates the dynamic in his head that he's the child and I'm the parent).  I'm just curious if there are any other women out there who have found ways to make it work with their BP.  "Biblical marriage" to me means when there is a question of which road to take, the husband and wife discuss it - ultimately if there is still disagreement, she submits to her husband's decision, who in turn makes decisions based on what he thinks is best for the family.  I do not believ in submission at all costs, especially not in the face of the emotional abuse he's spewing right now.

[dealingwithit]

I have prayed about this a lot, this is what the Lord impressed upon me. You are to submit to your husband as to Christ, but you do not have to submit to a controlling spirit. This is very delicate line with a BPD. So, if my husband is exhibiting "lording" or "anger," I do as the bible teaches. I respect him and speak softly because a soft answer turns away wrath. If that doesn't work I try to get away from him in some form or fashion and wait until he is in a better mood to discuss whatever the decision may be. My husband HATES talking about money issues. That is a trigger for him. If he does not respect or show love toward me, then my boundaries come into play.

The bible also teaches to love others as you love YOURSELF. Boundaries are used to love yourself. Once that is in place, you can love the other person. On occasion, I have had to speak to a church leader when he goes over lines. (I have a long and good relationship with my current pastors.) They are an awesome support for me and love my husband.

I try to follow the Holy Spirit on this one. It does seem like the enemy does take advantage of my husband's weakness at times and use it against me, but I am learning to depend on God with that. The Lord knows our hearts, that we want to please HIM in every way.

[formflier]

One thing that I am looking to do more of... . is exchange ideas with fellow believers about how BPD affects their faith life... . and how the reconcile biblical teaching to how the "deal with" their BPD spouse.

I will admit to being a bit bitter... or disappointed that I allowed my uBPDw and our relationship to be cared for "inside" the church for several years.  I was advised to love her better... . be a better leader... . I changed my behavior many times.  I'm hard pressed to point out where she did at all.  I think she was emoldened... and got worse.

The more she learned about sin... . the more things she had to ruminate on and accuse me off... . very frustrating.

Also very frustrating to extend grace and forgiveness... and to not get any in return.  In one BPD fueled argument... . she actually "unforgave" me for things that she had forgiven me for years earlier.  At other times she warned me that if I didn't agree with her... she would withold grace... or forgiveness... .

Then would act like it didn't happen.

This definitely has "dulled" my prayer life... . I need to refocus there.  I'm certainly asking the why me question... .

[going places]

One thing that I am looking to do more of... . is exchange ideas with fellow believers about how BPD affects their faith life... . and how the reconcile biblical teaching to how the "deal with" their BPD spouse.

I will admit to being a bit bitter... or disappointed that I allowed my uBPDw and our relationship to be cared for "inside" the church for several years.  I was advised to love her better... . be a better leader... . I changed my behavior many times.  I'm hard pressed to point out where she did at all.  I think she was emoldened... and got worse.

The more she learned about sin... . the more things she had to ruminate on and accuse me off... . very frustrating.

Also very frustrating to extend grace and forgiveness... and to not get any in return.  In one BPD fueled argument... . she actually "unforgave" me for things that she had forgiven me for years earlier.  At other times she warned me that if I didn't agree with her... she would withold grace... or forgiveness... .

Then would act like it didn't happen.

This definitely has "dulled" my prayer life... . I need to refocus there.  I'm certainly asking the why me question... .

The "Biblical" Counselor we saw, was not trained to deal with / understand or recognize PTSD.

He also had a very 'human' perspective on Scripture.

Went so far as to say if I had been more of a "Biblical Wife" my STBEX may not have had an affair.

(STBEX was NOT a Believer then... . and I question his authinticity to this day)

When it was revealed to the counselor about the 30+ year porn addiction... . that was 'glossed over'.

When I would call and ask for a support group / mentor / someone in the church that really understood where I was coming from, he would say "read this book" or "read this Scripture and you will be fine".

It was always via email. He would never return my calls.

My doc told me that this "counselor" did more damage to me than he ever helped.

Finally when STBEX started showing his "true colors" the counselor was no longer interested in counseling him.

I love the Lord with all my heart, soul, strength and mind... . but never ever again will I seek any type of counseling from the church.

I have the Word. I have The Holy Spirit. I have Prayer.

Trust God, not man.

[formflier]

The "Biblical" Counselor we saw, was not trained to deal with / understand or recognize PTSD.

He also had a very 'human' perspective on Scripture.

Went so far as to say if I had been more of a "Biblical Wife" my STBEX may not have had an affair.

(STBEX was NOT a Believer then... . and I question his authinticity to this day)

When it was revealed to the counselor about the 30+ year porn addiction... . that was 'glossed over'.

When I would call and ask for a support group / mentor / someone in the church that really understood where I was coming from, he would say "read this book" or "read this Scripture and you will be fine".

It was always via email. He would never return my calls.

My doc told me that this "counselor" did more damage to me than he ever helped.

Finally when STBEX started showing his "true colors" the counselor was no longer interested in counseling him.

I love the Lord with all my heart, soul, strength and mind... . but never ever again will I seek any type of counseling from the church.

I have the Word. I have The Holy Spirit. I have Prayer.

Trust God, not man.

Sounds like you have a very similar attitude and perspective about "Biblical Counseling" that I  have.  I realize that I'm a bit jaded now to this... . and I do think that two "equally yoked" Christians can benefits from someone that is focusing them on the word.

Where are you at now with your relationship with your hubby and BPD?

If you have seen any of my other posts... . I'm at a major turning point.  I've mad a decision to not go back to "unhealthy behavior".  I'm working on defining that behavior better.  There was a rage fueled corporal punishment issue that pushed me over the top.

[going places]

I will be divorced in 13 days.

My house will go on the market this week.

I have too much life to live to be abused, any longer!

I think Biblical counseling can work, when a committed husband and wife, who are both, committed Believers and Followers of Christ, use the Word as their guide and the Spirit as their voice to correct their course.

STBEX was not  a Believer, absolutely not committed.

He was doing it for show.

[Fanie]

My beliefs as a Christian:

I believe God can heal !

Fullstop

I also believe that the non's have a right

to walk away from abuse

Fullstop

I also believe that church councilors are not

up to the job (sorry - my experience)

Fullstop

Councilors or then - rather Psychologists with experience

with BPD are few and far between

(there are fees to be paid... . whether good or pad)

Savvy 

[slimmiller]

I love the topic here and all the comments.

I believe that we in general in this day and age have difficulty understanding the real meaning of Biblical marriage. I know I do and think in the case of BPDs, they only twist it even more to fit 'them' not in any way where they take an actual objective look at the Bible to see what it REALLY says about marriage. It says what they WANT it to say etc.

In my case, when I met mine she was in church (Mormon) and active doing all the Biblical things and the 'wholesomness' that I saw on the surface only drew me in further faster. However very few religions can build up and validate someone with the believes and views of BPD as well and as deeply as that church. I wont say much further on that but will say that the mindset of one fits the other very well. (the Mormon church and BPD) Both have about the same ability to create an alternative reality to fit an agenda.

But the end result is she was able to discard anything that got in her way when she decided to find someone to cheat on me with. Even the Religion she so deeply 'believed'  When it got in the way, she discarded it too.

Last time she spoke about counseling she was adament that it would be a secular counelor because in her words, Christian counselors are biased.  

[Fanie]

Jeremiah 29:11

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

WHAT IS GOD'S PLAN FOR ME AND MY 2 CHILDREN ?

That's what we all ask ?

Can we walk away ?

is that weak faith in the ALMIGHTY?

[lizzie458]

Thanks so much for all your responses!  I completely didn't realize my settings were off - I didn't know this thread had any replies and then of course I got busy dealing with all this junk and haven't made it back till now.

formflier - no, none of this is under the oversight of the church.  We are actually not even plugged in to a church right now.  I brought the emotional abuse to the church before, and it resulted in a huge breakdown of trust for him, and it was not effective.  He refused to listen to them because they wouldn't/couldn't hang out with him and be his best friend (something he has been sorely lacking the last few years).  So going to church leadership is something I will have to tread lightly with in the future, because I do feel like it was unbalanced last time.  I leaned in to our small group while he leaned out, and when we reconciled he felt outcast (even though that was not the case) and we ended up leaving our group over it.

As to your other questions:

"Here is another thought.  If I read right... . he refused DBT but does acknowledge there is a problem and gets some counseling for it... . correct?

What does he refuse DBT?"

He says he HAD BPD traits, but refused to acknowledge "BPD".  He works in mental health and is deathly afraid of DBT going on his "record".  He also doesn't want to commit to something like DBT - he'd rather see a counselor on his terms.  I think part of it is he just can't admit that it actually is BPD - because in his mind doing DBT would mean an admission of BPD.  He sees our counselor, but she is not well-trained in treating BPD and non's.  She has been minimally effective, and sometimes she has undone work because she (supposedly…who really knows?) gives opinions about my decisions/actions/whatever without taking the BPD into consideration.  She has taken him at his word before and given him feedback which has been detrimental to his psyche and our relationship, to say the least.

[formflier]

Hang in there.

I must say I admire and appreciate your desire to maintain God's plan for marriage. 

Again... . I've struggled with it from the other side of things... . lots of praying... . more anger with God than I care to admit to... .

Years ago we were proponents of Biblical discipline (spanking) in our house.  NEVER in anger.  Only for direct disobedience.  uBPDw and I would challenge each other to make sure we were in right frame of mind... . if there was ever a doubt... . we would with hold spanking and do something else. 

And... if you have been following my story... . a couple weeks ago I physically stood between my wife and a child she was trying to get to.  She refused to leave the room with me so we could talk privately.

She then refused to speak to me about it.  I tried to assert authority and say than spanking needed to be off the table until further notice until we could sort out our relationship.

She had been spanking while in a rage.

She refused all this... . so I made a report to Department of Social Services... . that investigation and monitoring continues.

Heartbreaking for me to go from a Biblical wife that was the love of my life... and I felt blessed to have... . to this enraged... . paranoid... . person that spanks my children while in a rage. 

She held a 6 year old accountable with an enormous whipping... . for a 1 year old being in a public road... .

The entire time she was in the yard with them... .

How does God allow that to happen... .

Thanks so much for all your responses!  I completely didn't realize my settings were off - I didn't know this thread had any replies and then of course I got busy dealing with all this junk and haven't made it back till now.

formflier - no, none of this is under the oversight of the church.  We are actually not even plugged in to a church right now.  I brought the emotional abuse to the church before, and it resulted in a huge breakdown of trust for him, and it was not effective.  He refused to listen to them because they wouldn't/couldn't hang out with him and be his best friend (something he has been sorely lacking the last few years).  So going to church leadership is something I will have to tread lightly with in the future, because I do feel like it was unbalanced last time.  I leaned in to our small group while he leaned out, and when we reconciled he felt outcast (even though that was not the case) and we ended up leaving our group over it.

As to your other questions:

"Here is another thought.  If I read right... . he refused DBT but does acknowledge there is a problem and gets some counseling for it... . correct?

What does he refuse DBT?"

He says he HAD BPD traits, but refused to acknowledge "BPD".  He works in mental health and is deathly afraid of DBT going on his "record".  He also doesn't want to commit to something like DBT - he'd rather see a counselor on his terms.  I think part of it is he just can't admit that it actually is BPD - because in his mind doing DBT would mean an admission of BPD.  He sees our counselor, but she is not well-trained in treating BPD and non's.  She has been minimally effective, and sometimes she has undone work because she (supposedly…who really knows?) gives opinions about my decisions/actions/whatever without taking the BPD into consideration.  She has taken him at his word before and given him feedback which has been detrimental to his psyche and our relationship, to say the least.

[Fanie]

John 15:7

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

I think the above is a example what Christians (and me) struggle

to understand. The "why" factor. Why God ? When God ?

Even David questioned God.

Its the most difficult thing about being a believer, even his

chosen disciples faltered ... .

To trust God unquestionably under ALL circumstances ... .

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.



He took the Israelites 40 years through the desert - 40 very hard years !

Alas, we all are weak... . that includes me ... .

[ydrys017]

Thank you for this topic, I struggle so hard with this - and am reading a book from one of my favorite authors (Phillip Yancey) entitled "Where is God When it Hurts".  Phillip writes from a 'recovered fundamentalist' (my term) perspective, and has also written a book entitled ":)isappointment with God", I'll read that one next.  Intellectually I know the Biblical guidance, (Jer. 1:9 is engraved in my wedding ring!), but putting it into practice is very difficult.  As I've struggled mightily with this over the past 2 months, I see how learning about BPD and finding this site are answers to prayer... . But, I still 'call out' (yell) to God during prayer.

[lizzie458]

This is such a worthwhile struggle, I'm glad I'm not the only one working through this!

Formflier, that took so much courage for you to protect your children.  I pray I never have to go that far, but if I do I hope I have the courage to see it through in the face of all those consequences.  Spanking has been a topic of debate - I don't believe in it, dBPDh wants to do it.  With our barely 2 y/o :-/  Initially he agreed that spanking in anger is totally off limits and not good for children, but he has confessed the only times he's ever spanked him has been in anger.  And yet, somehow he still thinks it's a good idea to use that tool (which has never yielded effective results with our son)... . hmmmm... .

[formflier]

Wow... . yeah... . I obviously can totally understand the frustration, concern, worry... . from a parent that thinks the other one is actively harming (at on the bad end)... . or... at best... . using ineffective discipline.

I don't really want to start a whole new spanking vs non-spanking debate.  It seems like there is almost universal agreement that spanking is anger is bad.

And... at the moment... . I doubt I would ever again agree to spank my kids... or have someone spank them.  The memories of what I have recently been involved with would most likely haunt me... . or that would bring them back.

And I'm not saying that I have always been a perfect parent.  But I honestly can't think of a time when my uBPDw asked me to stop discipline and go to another room... . and I didn't comply.  Usually she was spot on that there was something in my attitude that needed to be checked.

Anyway... . I doubt I could be objective at the moment about the spanking vs non-spanking debate... . so I won't really even try.

Hang in there and keep posting.

This is such a worthwhile struggle, I'm glad I'm not the only one working through this!

Formflier, that took so much courage for you to protect your children.  I pray I never have to go that far, but if I do I hope I have the courage to see it through in the face of all those consequences.  Spanking has been a topic of debate - I don't believe in it, dBPDh wants to do it.  With our barely 2 y/o :-/  Initially he agreed that spanking in anger is totally off limits and not good for children, but he has confessed the only times he's ever spanked him has been in anger.  And yet, somehow he still thinks it's a good idea to use that tool (which has never yielded effective results with our son)... . hmmmm... .

[formflier]

For any of those that wonder... . I'm a fairly conservative guy when it comes to "religious matters". 

I grew up in a what I would describe as a middle of the road Baptist Church.  I was one of the more conservative members there.

I had the interesting experience several years ago of spending a bit over 5-6 years in an very fundamentalist Baptist church.  I found myself to be  "liberal" there. 

I still find the liberal/conservative/fundamentalist debate interesting.  I personally prefer to focus on the relationship with Christ.

And... . honestly... . this has put a strain on it.  I need to spend time on that.

This is great debate... . please keep it going

Thank you for this topic, I struggle so hard with this - and am reading a book from one of my favorite authors (Phillip Yancey) entitled "Where is God When it Hurts".  Phillip writes from a 'recovered fundamentalist' (my term) perspective, and has also written a book entitled ":)isappointment with God", I'll read that one next.  Intellectually I know the Biblical guidance, (Jer. 1:9 is engraved in my wedding ring!), but putting it into practice is very difficult.  As I've struggled mightily with this over the past 2 months, I see how learning about BPD and finding this site are answers to prayer... . But, I still 'call out' (yell) to God during prayer.

[lizzie458]

I don't really want to start a whole new spanking vs non-spanking debate.  It seems like there is almost universal agreement that spanking is anger is bad.

Oh yes, I agree on both counts.  Don't want to start a debate either   

[formflier]

I would suggest to you... . that NOT spanking is a more "conservative" point of view (less aggressive). 

Generally... . if two people disagree... . picking the least aggressive or more conservative option is "safer".

The interesting thing in this thread is we are talking about biblical marriage.  So... . if two disagree... . it's up to the Husband.  Who... . in this case... . is known to have a PD and not think "correctly".

So... . wow... . that is a tough situation to be in.

I'll be praying for you... . that God will grant you wisdom.

This is such a worthwhile struggle, I'm glad I'm not the only one working through this!

Formflier, that took so much courage for you to protect your children.  I pray I never have to go that far, but if I do I hope I have the courage to see it through in the face of all those consequences.  Spanking has been a topic of debate - I don't believe in it, dBPDh wants to do it.  With our barely 2 y/o :-/  Initially he agreed that spanking in anger is totally off limits and not good for children, but he has confessed the only times he's ever spanked him has been in anger.  And yet, somehow he still thinks it's a good idea to use that tool (which has never yielded effective results with our son)... . hmmmm... .

[ydrys017]

I consider myself a 'recovered fundamentalist'!    My parent's were unequally yoked, my uBPDm became a fundamentalist several years after my parents married.  Now, I realize how fundamentalism can support BPD; black/white thinking, guilt, etc... . I had fundamentalism at home, church, and went to a fundamentalist school for 12 years.  My Dad did not attend Church.  While I fully believed in Christianity, I never fully bought into the fundamentalist approach.  I was a 'sponge' on the outside, but a 'mirror' on the inside.

After college I went on a quest to find God per the Bible, and struggled to overcome the fundamentalist message coupled with uBPDm issues and her discipline abuse from my childhood.  A good Christian T brought me along and introduced me to a Loving God as opposed to a judgement only God. 

I believe that God designed marriage for equally yoked spouses to work through their problems and issues by relying on God and each other, recognizing that where the other fails - they can rely that much more on God.  Submission? Only in stalemate and/or indifference cases where somebody needs to step up and make a Biblically based decision - that's the Guy's job, as is to 'love your wife as Christ loved the Church'.  IMHO, that is a pretty tall order!  If you have a BPD spouse, I believe God desires us to exhaust all opportunities, but allows for divorce as a last resort.

Interested to hear other perspectives.

[empath]

Lizzie,

It is a very hard situation to find yourself in. For years, I didn't say much about how my marriage worked from the inside, and we didn't have any friends who were close enough to actually see what was happening. I was the 'submissive' wife -- I drew the line at abusing my children. When we got married, I had a lot of experience with children and appropriate discipline, so I had a lot more tools for that in my repertoire. The funny thing is that we had talked about a lot of different aspects of our life together before we got married, but the things that dh said before we were married were not how he actually wanted things to happen. Dh didn't and thought that spanking/yelling/abuse was the proper way, the way that his parents did it. Our oldest bore the brunt of dh's rages/anger/'discipline' and these days, dh has a lot of regrets about how he treated our oldest. Dh made some very bad decisions, against my input, and systematically reduced my ability to give advice and thoughts.

Eventually, we developed some closer friendships; they saw some things in our marriage that raised concerns which were brought to me. Dh would do what he wanted to do regardless of my commitments/responsibilities. They started praying for us. Somewhere along the line, I realized that I needed to be a 'proper helpmeet' -- not an enabler of bad behavior. I needed to draw lines and hold to them; I needed to be truthful.

We had a really difficult time just over 2 years ago; he really, really wanted to do something that would have been both expensive and unwise for me. He raised his voice, threatened divorce (which would also have been a very bad thing for him to do), emotionally/spiritually abused me ('you just need to obey me', etc. -- and the kids heard it and were old enough to know that it wasn't what he should be doing.

These days, he says that I am 'unsubmissive' -- that means that I will not do certain things that he really, really wants to do. There are only a few of those, and they have to do with my own calling vocationally. I can't disobey God in my submission to my husband. He has had to address some of the issues that are related to his 'personality' -- other people have brought them up because they affect how he interacts with both his family and the community (employment history, financial history, etc.). He even asked why we were in the financial situation that we were in if I knew the 'right things to do' -- well, because my input has not been given much weight. There are consequences to that. I was even willing to go to the trainings and things to support him in making changes.

My dh also works in a mental health related field which is really difficult for him -- and thinks that his issues are related to 'being sensitive', 'depression', and artistic.

[formflier]

Dh made some very bad decisions, against my input, and systematically reduced my ability to give advice and thoughts.

This describes where I am at.  Systematically my authority was chipped away.  I tried to reduce conflict hoping for a better day... . give tools time to work.  She kept pushing.

It took the whipping incident to get me going.  Now I look back and I have essentially handed over all the power to her... . which... . I suppose I'm ok with as long as my kids don't get harmed.

That sounds odd for  me to watch me type that... . because I used to have opinions about everything. 

The impact of whatever my decision or action was... . that it would turn out "wrong"... my fault... . etc etc has worn me down.

Even if I do exactly what she said... . I can end up wrong... .

Got me to the point of not caring... .

[formflier]

Lizzie,


We had a really difficult time just over 2 years ago; he really, really wanted to do something that would have been both expensive and unwise for me. He raised his voice, threatened divorce (which would also have been a very bad thing for him to do), emotionally/spiritually abused me ('you just need to obey me', etc. -- and the kids heard it and were old enough to know that it wasn't what he should be doing.

Do you mind sharing more detail on what this was?

[lizzie458]

My dh also works in a mental health related field which is really difficult for him -- and thinks that his issues are related to 'being sensitive', 'depression', and artistic.

Thanks for sharing your story, empath.  As a side note - DH has said the same things about his issues.  Blames them on "being a more emotional/sensitive/passionate" guy, creative/artistic, depression/anxiety, and also ADD.  It doesn't bother me as much now (it's just how he copes), but I was pretty mad about that shortly after BPD was pinpointed as the real cause.  I felt like the BPD was presenting me with a bunch of rabbit holes and gaslighting at the same time (all emotional guys are like this, it's normal - it's YOU who isn't normal and can't deal with it).  I felt so duped.

At this point in my journey, I feel like God is leading me to keep my family safe when I feel like we are in danger.  Part of that may be due to the fact that we may be unequally yoked (which is what I suspect, but no way to really know 100%).  I'm putting my faith in God to show me where I can submit and where it's not safe to.  Emotional abuse and manipulation muddy the waters here, but I'm glad to be having the conversation.

[going places]

I consider myself a 'recovered fundamentalist'!    My parent's were unequally yoked, my uBPDm became a fundamentalist several years after my parents married.  Now, I realize how fundamentalism can support BPD; black/white thinking, guilt, etc... . I had fundamentalism at home, church, and went to a fundamentalist school for 12 years.  My Dad did not attend Church.  While I fully believed in Christianity, I never fully bought into the fundamentalist approach.  I was a 'sponge' on the outside, but a 'mirror' on the inside.

After college I went on a quest to find God per the Bible, and struggled to overcome the fundamentalist message coupled with uBPDm issues and her discipline abuse from my childhood.  A good Christian T brought me along and introduced me to a Loving God as opposed to a judgement only God. 

I believe that God designed marriage for equally yoked spouses to work through their problems and issues by relying on God and each other, recognizing that where the other fails - they can rely that much more on God.  Submission? Only in stalemate and/or indifference cases where somebody needs to step up and make a Biblically based decision - that's the Guy's job, as is to 'love your wife as Christ loved the Church'.  IMHO, that is a pretty tall order!  If you have a BPD spouse, I believe God desires us to exhaust all opportunities, but allows for divorce as a last resort.

Interested to hear other perspectives.

Grew up in an "Easter / Christmas" church family. Buy a pretty dress, show up twice a  year, throw some money in the plate and leave.

I personally found Christ at 33.

Bible Study International (https://www.bsfinternational.org/) was AMAZING.

Read, studied, prayed, grew closer and closer to the Lord.

I 'friend' told me that when Jesus said that we could divorce due to marital unfaithfulness, that He didn't "mean" divorce divorce, but He meant something else.

I listened to very, bad, advice.

Jesus said no go on the divorcing EXCEPT for marital unfaithfulness.

Mine will be final June 15.

I did everything His Word asked / Commanded me to do.

I have come to the place that, though I do not understand, maybe this is what He needs to deal with my stbexh. For my stbexh to really hit rock bottom, so he will look up to the Lord.

I don't know. I really don't care. It's between God and stbexh.

All I know is this.

THERE IS A REASON why God said DO NOT be unequally yoked.

[byfaith]

Interesting discussion... .

I feel like I have done what you have done Going Places

Quote [I did everything His Word asked / Commanded me to do.

I have come to the place that, though I do not understand, maybe this is what He needs to deal with my stbexh. For my stbexh to really hit rock bottom, so he will look up to the Lord.

I don't know. I really don't care. It's between God and stbexh.

All I know is this.

THERE IS A REASON why God said DO NOT be unequally yoked.]

I feel like I am at the end of my rope. So many dynamics in my r/s that it has been difficult for me to post because an incident here and other deep issues I deal with I cannot seem to scratch the surface. All I know is that I have "hidden" my feelings to avoid triggers. God can add more rope though. I am not to the place of leaving or asking for a divorce but I cannot "see" things remaining the way they are and me finding any peace on the inside concerning my marriage. It's a sad place to be. I spent 25 years in a previous marriage and I wonder if there is a purpose that God has in all of this with my second marriage.

[ydrys017]

byfaith, the verse in the signature of the previous post might provide encouragement - I keep reading it myself, and I have Josh 1:9 engraved inside my wedding ring... .   but it is quite difficult to keep focused on the concept of: '... . be still, and know that I am God... . '   

One of my recent realizations when I asked God 'why me? I've already went through this with a uBPDm... . !' was that, perhaps I'm uniquely qualified to break the chain and live out 'what you've done for the least of these, you've done for me... . '.  For me, it is still just a realization, I don't know that I feel more qualified or enabled today than I did yesterday... .   Still learning.

[empath]

Lizzie,


We had a really difficult time just over 2 years ago; he really, really wanted to do something that would have been both expensive and unwise for me. He raised his voice, threatened divorce (which would also have been a very bad thing for him to do), emotionally/spiritually abused me ('you just need to obey me', etc. -- and the kids heard it and were old enough to know that it wasn't what he should be doing.

Do you mind sharing more detail on what this was?

He was seriously considering becoming a minister in a denomination that refused to allow women to serve at all in any aspect of worship service. At that point, I was pursuing a degree that would qualify me to be a church leader -- we had also taken out loans for this degree. (not wanting to get off on the potential rabbit trails here) He was convinced that the denomination would 'change the rules' for him -- or that they didn't really mean them, and that I just needed to 'trust' him. During that time, I kept focusing on the reality of what they had said in various ways, none of which indicated a possibility of change. It was really strange because then I realized that his reality was not based on the evidence that I was seeing. So, he didn't like my description of reality.

As I've processed that situation and some of the other events, I came to the conclusion that I owe God my first allegiance and cannot disobey God in my submission to my husband.