Closure - a telling conversation?

[Vitto18]

I've recently started counselling since ending a 6 year relationship with uBPDexgf after I caught her cheating.

We've broken up before ofcourse, once because she tried to commit suicide (overdose) after a minor disagreement about how to spend a Saturday escalated into a screaming match with all the problems in the world thrown in, & again after she admitted she had stopped taking birth control without telling me because she wanted to have a child to "make sure that I would never leave her" ... .

But this, this is it.

In the aftermath, her behaviour became more & more bizarre, almost as though she was angry with me, when she was the one who betrayed me ?

For example:

1.) grabbing the steering wheel whilst I was driving her home after a difficult conversation about the children, attempting to swerve the car off the road

2.) attacking me at work whilst I was on the phone with a friend / colleaugue (screaming swearing, crying, ending my phonecall, snatching the receiver out of my hand & trying hit me with it, in an office full of people), because she heard me telling this friend why the relationship ended

("I'm sick of hearing about what I've done, why must you tell everyone!"

3.) When I tried to address her behaviour at work, she started raging at me again (screaming, swearing, crying), so I started to walk away. She tried to hit me, in the presence of her mother & our children (S5 & D1), pushing me in the back, out of the door when I was already leaving ("Ja just get the f*** out of this house"

Our son was crying inconsolably after seeing this incident, it took me about 10 minutes to calm him down.

After this, I've applied for & been granted a protection order & have kept contact to a bare minimum ie: arranging pick up & drop off for our children. We ignore each other at work (very difficult for me, seemingly very easy for her), but I was very disturbed to hear that she was advertising the new "liefde van my lewe" (love of her life) on face book. I guess that's what pushed me to star therapy / counselling.

Anyway, as a first excercise, the therapist says I should write her a letter & tell her all my feelings. (but not send it to her)

Embarrassed to say, I did not follow instructions & sent her an SMS, because all I really wanted to know was whether she ever loved me to begin with, or whether the whole relationship was a farce, so I could get some kind of closure & get on with my life.

ME: "Is it fair to say, based on you cheating on me, humiliating me at work, trying to kill us both in the car, assaulting me in front of our children & now finding the new love of your life so quickly, that you never loved me at all?"

uBPDexGF: "I did love you but I don't think it was enough. And I honestly don't think you loved me as much as you say you did. You stayed with me because of the children. You could not handle me. I'm sorry V"

ME: :"You know for the past few months I have been mourning, it felt as though someone I love had died. I lost weight, I couldnt sleep. I saw you as my wife, my partner for life in raising these kids. For me a wedding was just a formality because in my heart & mind, we were already joined. I have been in so much pain because I could not match your words to your actions: How could you do all those things if you loved me?

By assuming you know how little or how much I love you, as if you can tell me what I feel, & by saying I couldn't handle you as if you are proud of your lies & betrayal, your crazy behaviour, it makes me realise that I wasted my tears, & that you never really cared. Thanks for that, you've set me free"

uBPDexgf: "It's so amazing! You always go on like you have never done anything to hurt me. You never loved me, because if you did, we would still be together. I cried too, day in and day out. I got extra fat. I know I hurt you but you hurt me many times before too, the difference is I always forgave you. You dragged me to court, getting that protection order against me like I'm sick in my head or something. This from a man who wanted to propose to me a couple of months back. I'm not proud of what I did, but I know what I did had to be done because you always just leave me. You always drop me like a hot potato & I always take you back. You never ever loved me Vitto! Imagine if we did get married, you would have wanted to divorce me at the first sight of trouble! I was never the right woman for you. It's unfortunate that I had to do something so hurtful for both of us to realise that. I'm sorry, I know you will find your soulmate. God bless you"

This conversation is not the apology or acknowledgement I was looking / wishing for, but it has helped me to understand that how she has moved from callong me the love of her life & threatening suicide if I did not take her back, to having a new love of her life a coupe of months later.

It helps me get closure in the sense that I now understand enough about BPD to see what she is doing here, stop worrying & get on with my life.

[Alex86]

uBPDexgf:

"It's so amazing! You always go on like you have never done anything to hurt me.

You never loved me, because if you did, we would still be together.

I know I hurt you but you hurt me many times before too, the difference is I always forgave you.

This from a man who wanted to propose to me a couple of months back.

You never ever loved me Vitto!

I was never the right woman for you.

I'm sorry, I know you will find your soulmate.

Hi Vitto,

Oh my... . This is similar to the discussion with my uBPDexgf after the break up.

I cleared her phrases just to see clearly how much blaming and criticism she puts on you with no reason.

I believe a woman who loved you-us she would say "I'm sorry" and mean it.

Would she blamed us and make excuses to avoid responsibility?

In the end, my ex like yours are triggered by "you" and "me". So sad... . :'(

Unfortunately, anything we would say it is turned against us.

It helps me get closure in the sense that I now understand enough about BPD to see what she is doing here, stop worrying & get on with my life.

I didn't went through as much as you but I believe you did everything you could. I am sure of that!

As trivial as it sounds, take care of yourself.

[Tausk]

V:  It's very hard and so sorry for your pain and suffering.  What you write is very familiar to almost everyone on this board.  There's a lot to learn, take it easy, take care of yourself and be patient.

You are in the right place.  Keep learning and also maybe check the family law board since it sounds like you will be in court for a while. 

The more we learn, the more we detach, the more we depersonalize, the more we accept that this a Bat Sh-t Crazy, the quicker our recovery.  Many have done it before you,  you'll find it here as well. 

How long were in you with your ex?  How is shared custody going?  So you have to work with her as well?

[AG]

I've recently started counselling since ending a 6 year relationship with uBPDexgf after I caught her cheating.

We've broken up before ofcourse, once because she tried to commit suicide (overdose) after a minor disagreement about how to spend a Saturday escalated into a screaming match with all the problems in the world thrown in, & again after she admitted she had stopped taking birth control without telling me because she wanted to have a child to "make sure that I would never leave her" ... .

But this, this is it.

In the aftermath, her behaviour became more & more bizarre, almost as though she was angry with me, when she was the one who betrayed me ?

For example:

1.) grabbing the steering wheel whilst I was driving her home after a difficult conversation about the children, attempting to swerve the car off the road

2.) attacking me at work whilst I was on the phone with a friend / colleaugue (screaming swearing, crying, ending my phonecall, snatching the receiver out of my hand & trying hit me with it, in an office full of people), because she heard me telling this friend why the relationship ended

("I'm sick of hearing about what I've done, why must you tell everyone!"

3.) When I tried to address her behaviour at work, she started raging at me again (screaming, swearing, crying), so I started to walk away. She tried to hit me, in the presence of her mother & our children (S5 & D1), pushing me in the back, out of the door when I was already leaving ("Ja just get the f*** out of this house"

Our son was crying inconsolably after seeing this incident, it took me about 10 minutes to calm him down.

After this, I've applied for & been granted a protection order & have kept contact to a bare minimum ie: arranging pick up & drop off for our children. We ignore each other at work (very difficult for me, seemingly very easy for her), but I was very disturbed to hear that she was advertising the new "liefde van my lewe" (love of her life) on face book. I guess that's what pushed me to star therapy / counselling.

Anyway, as a first excercise, the therapist says I should write her a letter & tell her all my feelings. (but not send it to her)

Embarrassed to say, I did not follow instructions & sent her an SMS, because all I really wanted to know was whether she ever loved me to begin with, or whether the whole relationship was a farce, so I could get some kind of closure & get on with my life.

ME: "Is it fair to say, based on you cheating on me, humiliating me at work, trying to kill us both in the car, assaulting me in front of our children & now finding the new love of your life so quickly, that you never loved me at all?"

uBPDexGF: "I did love you but I don't think it was enough. And I honestly don't think you loved me as much as you say you did. You stayed with me because of the children. You could not handle me. I'm sorry V"

ME: :"You know for the past few months I have been mourning, it felt as though someone I love had died. I lost weight, I couldnt sleep. I saw you as my wife, my partner for life in raising these kids. For me a wedding was just a formality because in my heart & mind, we were already joined. I have been in so much pain because I could not match your words to your actions: How could you do all those things if you loved me?

By assuming you know how little or how much I love you, as if you can tell me what I feel, & by saying I couldn't handle you as if you are proud of your lies & betrayal, your crazy behaviour, it makes me realise that I wasted my tears, & that you never really cared. Thanks for that, you've set me free"

uBPDexgf: "It's so amazing! You always go on like you have never done anything to hurt me. You never loved me, because if you did, we would still be together. I cried too, day in and day out. I got extra fat. I know I hurt you but you hurt me many times before too, the difference is I always forgave you. You dragged me to court, getting that protection order against me like I'm sick in my head or something. This from a man who wanted to propose to me a couple of months back. I'm not proud of what I did, but I know what I did had to be done because you always just leave me. You always drop me like a hot potato & I always take you back. You never ever loved me Vitto! Imagine if we did get married, you would have wanted to divorce me at the first sight of trouble! I was never the right woman for you. It's unfortunate that I had to do something so hurtful for both of us to realise that. I'm sorry, I know you will find your soulmate. God bless you"

This conversation is not the apology or acknowledgement I was looking / wishing for, but it has helped me to understand that how she has moved from callong me the love of her life & threatening suicide if I did not take her back, to having a new love of her life a coupe of months later.

It helps me get closure in the sense that I now understand enough about BPD to see what she is doing here, stop worrying & get on with my life.

Dude I just did this same thing yesterday trying to get closure after I came home drunk out my mind and full of anxiety when I was alone. I literally got no response at all. I am sorry that you are going through this. Im sorry for all of our pain to be honest. All these stories on here are unfair and either make me mad or sadden me. I hope I get to the point where I don't give a crap and never even look back once. Coincidentally my BPD ex had an ex before me who she claims beat her which I think is either a lie or exaggeration. I saw that he recently got married and looks very happy with someone else. I keep thinking at times about him conquering the same stuff I went through and moving on eventually to find someone who actually is healthy. I tip my hat to that dude and use him as a marker in the back of my mind that someone who went through the same I did and possibly worse is in love with and happy with someone else. 

[Blimblam]

she sounds like a real witch!

im sorry you have to deal with her

[Vitto18]

Thank you all for your kind words & commiserations... . one thing that keeps me coming back to this forum is that it seems to be the only place where one finds people who can truly relate to these type of experiences. I wish you all strength in dealing with the aftermath, detaching has been like an emotional boot camp for me.

Before I 'discovered' BPD, I thought my ex was just sensitive, over-emotional, feisty, and immature; really I made so many excuses to family & friends, trying to rationalise behaviour which in truth I myself did not understand.

All I knew was that it made me feel miserable about the relationship, because we could not resolve so many minor issues & it felt like I was entirely responsible for my ex's emotional well-being, whilst she did not seem to care at all about mine.

Even with this emotional gap / disconnect between us, I never cheated (yes, the sex was thaaat good!); we broke up a few times when I got angry, & sulked because I felt used (manipulated with pregnancy, suicide threats), misunderstood, unappreciated, but I kept going back to her, hoping things would change, believing that if I did this or that differently, maybe I could make her happy. Even during those two brief separations, all I thought about was her... . & she would be ready to move on a day or two after we broke up: "You mos don't want me anymore, so what must I do?"

At times I would sit quietly like a rock, try to listen for what she really wanted whilst she screamed & cried & ranted & raged... . this was not acceptable to her: "why aren't you saying anything?" she would demand. "You don't care about my feelings!"

If I did say something, I would be shouted down because I was too critical: "ooh you think you are so perfect, you know everything, Mr Wonderful, you never make any mistakes", "Why don’t you leave me then, since I'm such an immature bi*** & go find your perfect woman without any flaws who will treat you like gold?"

In the end, it seems I became a trigger because I refused to sweep her behaviour under the carpet anymore; I tried to hold her accountable & force her to answer for her impulsive, reckless actions & their implications.

She would say "let's just wipe the slate clean" & tell me to "stop talking about my mistakes, it’s all in the past now" after I caught her cheating & I still wanted to know what made her do it in the first place, why did it continue even after I caught her out & she denied & then confessed, after she told me she had prayed to God & He had forgiven her? How we could get married if she didn't respect a ring & cheated with a married man, how could we 'cheat - proof' the relationship? It seems like these questions were too much for her. She just wanted to say sorry once & have me be 'over it', which somehow, I could not do.

I thought I could take tantrums, being manipulated, told what to think, how to feel, being indirectly blamed for her being so unhappy most of the time, or trying to answer questions like: "how come you look at the children with such love in your eyes, you never look at me like that?"

But at cheating I drew the line. I demanded too much honesty, where she wanted to play pretend.

So I was branded as an unforgiving, cruel person in her eyes, removed from the pedestal of being her life, her future ("without you there's no living" & relegated to being a mistake, a relationship that God or fate had decided had to end, by 'causing' her to cheat?

Here I have spent the last 6 years trying to show this woman that I love her & the message I got back from her was like "you don't love me enough, if you REALLY loved me you would do this & that, & the other thing i.e.: accept all my crazy behaviour without flinching or making a big deal about it."

I finally realised I could never make her happy, but more importantly she could not me happy, & love as Tina Turner once sang, really has nothing to do with it.

[Arminius]

Yet another thread that has me smiling to myself, shaking my head and wondering how on earth all of these stories can be so similar to mine.

The patterns, the phraseology, it really is uncanny.

Although I'm still a bad place, it helps to know that I'm not crazy, I didn't imagine it, she really was being unfair to me and blaming me, projecting if you will.

The black and white splitting is the hardest thing to come to terms with... . I just don't get it but I ACCEPT it as a feature of these people.

[Tausk]

One thing that helped me to detach in the long run was the absolute radical acceptance that even if me and my exgfwBPD managed to stay together, that my ex would always be cultivating men on the back burning, if not actually cheating on me. 

It's her nature.  And when I set boundaries about her establishing back-ups, she lied and deceived me. Up until the very end, lies, deception, cheating and no awareness or ability to take responsibility.

She couldn't help herself.  It's her nature.  She couldn't face the idea of possibly being alone.  Continually having a Plan B was a necessity. 

I still have my sanity.  Barely, but I got out in time.

For her, all that remains the the same old story of terror, confusion, and deep deep loneliness.

In sadness,

T

[BacknthSaddle]

One thing that helped me to detach in the long run was the absolute radical acceptance that even if me and my exgfwBPD managed to stay together, that my ex would always be cultivating men on the back burning, if not actually cheating on me. 

It's her nature.  And when I set boundaries about her establishing back-ups, she lied and deceived me. Up until the very end, lies, deception, cheating and no awareness or ability to take responsibility.

She couldn't help herself.  It's her nature.  She couldn't face the idea of possibly being alone.  Continually having a Plan B was a necessity. 

I still have my sanity.  Barely, but I got out in time.

For her, all that remains the the same old story of terror, confusion, and deep deep loneliness.

In sadness,

T

This kind of acceptance, however difficult, is one of the keys.  For me, recently, I have found it useful to reframe her problems without resorting to the BPD moniker.  The moniker is useful, but when I lean on it I find myself in ridiculous debates with myself about whether she is truly BPD, and then I lose focus and feel worse.  Instead, I've started to think of it as follows:

1) She is frequently miserable

2) She is unreliable

3) She is unfaithful

4) She is self-absorbed

All of these are truths about her character.  I know enough about her to know that they were true before I was involved with her, and they remain true after.  So, no matter if I had said this thing differently, or done that thing differently, or not responded this way or that to some provocation, no matter any of that, at the end of the day she still would have been frequently miserable, unreliable, unfaithful, and self-absorbed.  That's just her.  Nothing I could have done to change it.  And so there's no set of circumstances conceivable under which things could have "worked."

The end. 

[Infared]

I've recently started counselling since ending a 6 year relationship with uBPDexgf after I caught her cheating.

We've broken up before ofcourse, once because she tried to commit suicide (overdose) after a minor disagreement about how to spend a Saturday escalated into a screaming match with all the problems in the world thrown in, & again after she admitted she had stopped taking birth control without telling me because she wanted to have a child to "make sure that I would never leave her" ... .

But this, this is it.

In the aftermath, her behaviour became more & more bizarre, almost as though she was angry with me, when she was the one who betrayed me ?

For example:

1.) grabbing the steering wheel whilst I was driving her home after a difficult conversation about the children, attempting to swerve the car off the road

2.) attacking me at work whilst I was on the phone with a friend / colleaugue (screaming swearing, crying, ending my phonecall, snatching the receiver out of my hand & trying hit me with it, in an office full of people), because she heard me telling this friend why the relationship ended

("I'm sick of hearing about what I've done, why must you tell everyone!"

3.) When I tried to address her behaviour at work, she started raging at me again (screaming, swearing, crying), so I started to walk away. She tried to hit me, in the presence of her mother & our children (S5 & D1), pushing me in the back, out of the door when I was already leaving ("Ja just get the f*** out of this house"

Our son was crying inconsolably after seeing this incident, it took me about 10 minutes to calm him down.

After this, I've applied for & been granted a protection order & have kept contact to a bare minimum ie: arranging pick up & drop off for our children. We ignore each other at work (very difficult for me, seemingly very easy for her), but I was very disturbed to hear that she was advertising the new "liefde van my lewe" (love of her life) on face book. I guess that's what pushed me to star therapy / counselling.

Anyway, as a first excercise, the therapist says I should write her a letter & tell her all my feelings. (but not send it to her)

Embarrassed to say, I did not follow instructions & sent her an SMS, because all I really wanted to know was whether she ever loved me to begin with, or whether the whole relationship was a farce, so I could get some kind of closure & get on with my life.

ME: "Is it fair to say, based on you cheating on me, humiliating me at work, trying to kill us both in the car, assaulting me in front of our children & now finding the new love of your life so quickly, that you never loved me at all?"

uBPDexGF: "I did love you but I don't think it was enough. And I honestly don't think you loved me as much as you say you did. You stayed with me because of the children. You could not handle me. I'm sorry V"

ME: :"You know for the past few months I have been mourning, it felt as though someone I love had died. I lost weight, I couldnt sleep. I saw you as my wife, my partner for life in raising these kids. For me a wedding was just a formality because in my heart & mind, we were already joined. I have been in so much pain because I could not match your words to your actions: How could you do all those things if you loved me?

By assuming you know how little or how much I love you, as if you can tell me what I feel, & by saying I couldn't handle you as if you are proud of your lies & betrayal, your crazy behaviour, it makes me realise that I wasted my tears, & that you never really cared. Thanks for that, you've set me free"

uBPDexgf: "It's so amazing! You always go on like you have never done anything to hurt me. You never loved me, because if you did, we would still be together. I cried too, day in and day out. I got extra fat. I know I hurt you but you hurt me many times before too, the difference is I always forgave you. You dragged me to court, getting that protection order against me like I'm sick in my head or something. This from a man who wanted to propose to me a couple of months back. I'm not proud of what I did, but I know what I did had to be done because you always just leave me. You always drop me like a hot potato & I always take you back. You never ever loved me Vitto! Imagine if we did get married, you would have wanted to divorce me at the first sight of trouble! I was never the right woman for you. It's unfortunate that I had to do something so hurtful for both of us to realise that. I'm sorry, I know you will find your soulmate. God bless you"

This conversation is not the apology or acknowledgement I was looking / wishing for, but it has helped me to understand that how she has moved from callong me the love of her life & threatening suicide if I did not take her back, to having a new love of her life a coupe of months later.

It helps me get closure in the sense that I now understand enough about BPD to see what she is doing here, stop worrying & get on with my life.

Vitto... .

I think we have all had these conversations with our ex pwBPD.  It is like conversing with an 8-year old who lives in some child's storybook. They are abusive, dishonest, manipulative and victim... . but don't admit to these behaviors (perhaps if the facts are so in their face they cannot deny it and you may have to have another witness standing there too!). They get extremely angry when you confront them with their atrocities. Of course a normal adult cannot discuss the situation without sorting out the truth. ... . but it is as if in their minds THEY can do WHATEVER they want and that they are always spared from any consequences. They never, ever, ever take accountability or apologize or make amends.

In my case, like you. Mine has gone way out of her way to be cruel to me with my replacement.  She has treated me like I was cheating on her., when it was the other way around. Again, behavior of a child to "get even" (for what, I truly don't know?).

I feel for you that the two of you are enmeshed in the same work environment. That must be extremely difficult. My heart goes out to you.

In my experience there was no way to reach an understanding or any peace... . not even after a lot of time. I was not willing to take all the blame. I was not willing to never discuss any of the lies, abuse and cruelty.  In short I needed to have a conversation about the truth in order for me to keep my sense of self intact. I could not absolve her of all of the behavior without a discussion and admission of it. That was never going to happen, so the only way I could have any self-dignity was to just stay away from that person and have absolutely NC. It was not a choice I wanted to make... . but in the end, I simply need to take care of me.