high functioning and early red flags ?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

so i was involved in a short term relationship, fling, affair whatever you wanna call it. I left her after 6 weeks. chased her for a while after then. got the silent treatment (she initiated NC by this) and then i learned more about the disorder, its dynamics and really do not have much questions about her behavior during the relationship. my therapist even diagnosed her with BPD without me mentioning anything about it. he also told me that she is so low functioning since her history of marriages, abortions, relationships (family,friends, x partners) and jobs while she is only 29 (she escaped her family and her country. now living in my country with her married sister (when she is painted white) or renting an apartment (when her sister is painted black). I have been subjected to subtle abuse, manipulation, gas lighting, Triangulation, reverse psychology you can name it all. but it was not that subtle. actually i have realized that the abuse was even present during the idealization phase by victimizing herself and at the same time trying hardly to let me know that all men are after her.


I have noticed that most members here were in a long term relationship and married to their pwBPD. I do not think that i am too smart to leave early or the members here are too stupid or co-dependent to leave late. I also noticed that the idealization phase with my exBPD did not last for long (only 3 weeks). I think how long did your relationship last is mainly about whether your pwBPD was high or low functioning.


my question here is for members who have been in LTR with a high functioning BPD. were the red flags present early in the relationship ? did you just ignore it like what i did ?

[antjs]

so i was involved in a short term relationship, fling, affair whatever you wanna call it. I left her after 6 weeks. chased her for a while after then. got the silent treatment (she initiated NC by this) and then i learned more about the disorder, its dynamics and really do not have much questions about her behavior during the relationship. my therapist even diagnosed her with BPD without me mentioning anything about it. he also told me that she is so low functioning since her history of marriages, abortions, relationships (family,friends, x partners) and jobs while she is only 29 (she escaped her family and her country. now living in my country with her married sister (when she is painted white) or renting an apartment (when her sister is painted black). I have been subjected to subtle abuse, manipulation, gas lighting, Triangulation, reverse psychology you can name it all. but it was not that subtle. actually i have realized that the abuse was even present during the idealization phase by victimizing herself and at the same time trying hardly to let me know that all men are after her.


I have noticed that most members here were in a long term relationship and married to their pwBPD. I do not think that i am too smart to leave early or the members here are too stupid or co-dependent to leave late. I also noticed that the idealization phase with my exBPD did not last for long (only 3 weeks). I think how long did your relationship last is mainly about whether your pwBPD was high or low functioning.


my question here is for members who have been in LTR with a high functioning BPD. were the red flags present early in the relationship ? did you just ignore it like what i did ?

[arjay]

my question here is for members who have been in LTR with a high functioning BPD. were the red flags present early in the relationship ? did you just ignore it like what i did ?

Greetings.  Seven-year relationship and brief marriage to my dBPDxw.  Yes she was high-functioning and yes I ignored the red-flags and/or thought they were transitional and would change over time.  Sadly what I saw in the beginning I saw in the end.  There were periods where things were pretty good 2-3 months at a time, but looking back we had separate places then and could take "time outs" when needed.  Once we were married and together full-time, things deteriorated quickly.

Peace

[antjs]

my question here is for members who have been in LTR with a high functioning BPD. were the red flags present early in the relationship ? did you just ignore it like what i did ?

Greetings.  Seven-year relationship and brief marriage to my dBPDxw.  Yes she was high-functioning and yes I ignored the red-flags and/or thought they were transitional and would change over time.  Sadly what I saw in the beginning I saw in the end.  There were periods where things were pretty good 2-3 months at a time, but looking back we had separate places then and could take "time outs" when needed.  Once we were married and together full-time, things deteriorated quickly.

Peace

since my exBPDgf was so low functioning and i was vulnerable at that time i moved in with her after only one week after our first date. So then i saw the red flags very early.

i will never ever again take it that fast with someone even if she is pushing boundaries. how can i catch red flags in the early stage where we do not live together and she can take some time off me and regulate her feelings ?

[BacknthSaddle]

My r/s was not a marriage and was not that long-term (1.5 yrs).  I still struggle with where to place my ex on the "functioning" spectrum.  There were certainly red flags that I ignored early on.  A few thoughts on why:

1) To paraphrase Rick James, idealization is a hell of a drug.  I was willing to shrug off a lot to get more of it.

2) The things that I did see I could explain away as the result of just being surrounded by dysfunctional people, inadequate upbringing, etc, and I thought that with my own good characteristics I could remedy these things.  The first part of that statement was probably true, but the second part was obviously not, and just represented narcissism on my part.  I will add that it didn't really dawn on me at that time that being surrounded by dysfunctional people was probably a sign of dysfunction.

3) My infatuation with this woman allowed me to divide the "real her" in my mind from her actions.  Yes, she did things or said things that were red flags, but those did not represent "the real her."  Of course, the "real her" was just a mirroring of my own idealized self (again, the narcissism).  I have since adopted the view that a "real person" cannot be separated from his or her actions. 

If you fear that you'll come across a "high-functioning" pwBPD in the future and miss the red flags (a fear I think many of us share), I would just say: rather than searching for red flags, just look at her actions, and see if you find yourself "explaining them away."  If you do, you have your answer. 

[Lion Fire]

my ex was low functioning for sure...

-multiple suicide attempts ( I only knew of one before I got into the relationship)

-2 marriages- one of 10 years, one 6 weeks

-2 x abortions (that I know of)

-many many many previous partners who all lied, cheated and abused her   

-was sectioned last year by the state

-traumatic childhood incl. long term incest, broken home, schizophrenic mother

-she was confused about her sexuality... .

-drug & alcohol addiction... . 9 years "clean and sober". she was "in 12 step recovery" didn't go to meetings and still drank occasionally and had periods of abusing tranquilisers

-multiple eating disorders

-shopped and spent money like crazy

-OCD- for certain

-lives on state benefits and is classified in the highest bracket for state support

-health problems from A-Z and back, sometimes several at one time.

-can't hold a job down... . since I've know her the longest she has worked has been 3 months

- exercise addiction

and there's so much more... .

I spoke to her ex after I split with her and he told me it took a year for him to recover. He said " that woman f*ed me up bro". He stuck around for a year, I did a two month tour.

Yep, most of these I was aware of in the two year constant lovebombing mission she was on to get me, yes me... "the man of her dreams". Of course, I was willing to turn a blind eye to this when the intoxication of idealization mainlined straight into my fragile soul

Aye, "idealization is one hell of a drug" that's for certain

Her first blow up was after 8 days... . then the intervals became shorter until I bailed.

[arjay]

If you fear that you'll come across a "high-functioning" pwBPD in the future and miss the red flags (a fear I think many of us share), I would just say: rather than searching for red flags, just look at her actions, and see if you find yourself "explaining them away."  If you do, you have your answer.  

I think this is the key.  In the end it is about "acceptable behavior", regardless of the background.

Having said that, my dBPDxw did come from a very dysfunctional background, a red flag in itself.  Additionally she did have bouts of drinking in the beginning (another red flag), had trust issues (a simple red flag) and night terrors (another red flag).

Historically I was a "fixer" and rather than accept what I saw, I thought through kindness and support she would "change" (a red flag for her if she was healthy).  I have since dealt with my issues and strongly believe in the axiom "when somebody shows you who they are - Believe Them!".

Peace

[Cimbaruns]

A. J

The red flags came early but the "idealization" infusion was non stop and I tried to explain them away... . I absolutely am a very intuitive person and have always trusted my gut feelings... . but alas ... . not this time...

I also ignored the fact that she came from a totally dysfunctional family... . including an ex husband who emotionally abused her constantly... . but he was the money train she always needed!

The "mask"... . "the mirroring"... . the idealization... . I quite frankly let myself drown 

[imsodizzy]

Another 7 year r/s she was 17 i was 19 i saw her lake of identity early on red flagg i just considered her " fake" or a poser i saw the constant need for attention her unhealthy obbsession with her father or the bf when i first met her before we were dating he was 19 she was 14 big red flag or every guy in her circle of "friends" were all guys she has slept with or made out with big red flag shows just how much she cant form a healthy attachment and she was high functioning and her false self verry strong now the only reasin she has held this job for awhile is union but yes red flags early on i was verry young saw them but ignored them and i thought i could save her all i wanted to do was show this woman who came from a world so dark as i had was that things didnt have to be that way thst we write our own destiny and that kife and family could br good and not all men would treat her bad but that was unhealthy of me and i know that now but yes she is high functioning and red flags whent up all around in the beggining

[antjs]

Now i feel that i am an expert at pointing out someone with cluster B.

But i do not think that nons who had a long term relationship with BPDs are stupid. A long term relationship means more drama, crazy making and so on right ?

I am just afraid that high functioning BPDs might be more subtle or having a stronger mask that would last for long until u r too stuck to run for ur life

[arjay]

I am just afraid that high functioning BPDs might be more subtle or having a stronger mask that would last for long until u r too stuck to run for ur life

My personal experience is that once I dealt with my own stuff,  I was better able to "open my eyes to reality", instead of being "seduced by the dark side", as they say in Star Wars.

BPD brings with it certain characteristics that are common for all that suffer from this disorder (high functioning or not).  I suppose what scares a lot of us going forward is "I gave in to obvious abuse.  What about something more subtle?".  I did date someone that was a non with issues too.  She was reasonably healthy but did have some big emotional issues.  The difference was I could see them and realized they were going to be a problem for me going forward.  I broke off the relationship after about 18 months.  It was so easy for me to do too and was a result of my personal work - my desire to become emotionally healthier.

Peace

[imsodizzy]

We all stayed for our own reasons but do i think of myself as stupid for staying yes the only good that came out of that r/s was our daughter now were bound for life because of that but with the high functioning it seems like a glimmer of hope maybe she just neefs to mature or that will change and bla bla bla and the higher funcrioning to me seems like they can manipulate and abuse more sneaky my t said she was very good at what she did and boy was she i knew she had a mask i could see it from day 1 but the abuse control constant tearing me down by the end of it i felt like a shell if the person i was nothing on the inside she drained all that for her survival like cell from dragon ball z if anyone knows who that is

[Blimblam]

- comes from a dysfunctional background

- her friends - birds of a feather flock together

-her cell phone usage.  This is a tricky one.  But if she is too popular or secretive about her cell phone.  She probably needs a constant supply of narcissistic supply to not feel bored or whatever.

-says she likes to hang out with guys because girls are too much drama.

-she gives off genuine freak energy or sexual energy with her friends.  then how are those really friends?

-her views on ethics and morality. She may have the cliché statements down but if she can not logically apply it or doesn't understand when you explain it. this can be tricky too because of her mirroring abilities.  See how she justifies the F***d up stuff her or her friends do to people.

I think the last one is the most major

[Arminius]

With hindsight I realise I'd known she told small lies from the beginning... . Things like the area are lived in, what position she actually held at work, how lwow she'd been single etc

Small stuff, but indicative of the condition.

Over time, this high functioner lied about money, feelings, future wants and needs, she took in all of my interests and hobbies, blamed me for her ceasing hers, she would take any off the cuff comment and treat it as gospel... .

An example:

Me: Hey, can you please, maybe, ask your sister to call at a different time than 9pm on a Saturday evening, as that is prime 'couple time'.

Her Interpretation: You want me to never speak to my family!

I can go on and on with examples that should have made me realise I was dealing with someone with a condition, but the idealisation is intoxicating and you just write that stuff off as you are getting a regular fix of adoration and great sex.

[imsodizzy]

Blimblam so right about the not having female friends what do u think this is about maybe to have a string of guy "friends" they need tge attention and constant validation of other men

[Arminius]

Mine just had virtually zero friends of either sex.

Her same sex last ex, a couple of friends of that ex, and work colleagues who she would either think were fantastic or horrible, depending on whether they were black or white that day!

No lasting, enduring friendships at all. Maybe non sexual partners eventually saw through her?

[OutOfEgypt]

There were red flags early on in with my ex wife, for sure.

Here are some:

1. Constantly talked... . talk talk talk all about herself

2. Jumped right into putting me on a pedestal.  She told me after only talking to me a few times, "I have a feeling I am going to marry you some day."

3. Things moved VERY quickly and intensely.  Suddenly we were talking ALL night and through emails.  Phone bills were up in the hundreds of dollars a month.

4. Things were intensely sexual.  I had never met anyone before who initiated sexual affection so strongly and so quickly.  We lived long distance from each other, so this happened through phone sex.  I was just talking normally, and then I suddenly hear her moaning.  I also found out that she was picking up a 16 year old high school kid from the local high school, sleeping with him, and then dropping him back off.  She was 22 at the time.  She also would tell me that she "needed it" so badly that she was willing to call up certain people that she knew would give it to her, no questions asked.

5. Sexual fantasies were highly disturbing, including involving my father (whom she had never met, but whome she idolized into a sort of father-figure, powerful business man) and her uncle, her sexually molester her when she was a little girl.

6. Clear signs of dysfunction and up-and-down relationships with her family.

7. Signs of neglecting her child -all of that time online, all of that time talking to me... . no wonder he was acting out all the time.

8. Signs of patterned behavior.  I could tell that I moved into a role while she pushed another guy out.  And I could tell that it was the same way with the other guy... . very fast, very sexual, suddenly talking about marriage and love and forever, etc.

9. Once we were married and moved in together, I saw the "waif" and the rager come out.  I began to see that she did whatever she wanted and expected compliance.  Yet she was extremely needy.  I felt very needed, but that neediness led almost immediately into accusation against me.  I "lied" about who I am.  I wasn't sexual enough, wasn't affectionate enough for her, wasn't wrapped up all into her enough.  It was a nightmare... . a nightmare I lived out for 13 years, always trying so hard to fix myself and get ahead of the 8-ball finally.

10.  She had an obvious sense of shame.  She shared it with me... . like it was a big secret or something.  She revealed that she had slept with something like 15 people before.  She felt dirty because of it (or at least pretended to, maybe to get sympathy... . which worked).  She also revealed that she was sexually abused as a child.  

11.  Skin picking.  She would (and still does) sit in front of the mirror in the bathroom, and pick her pores on her arms and legs for hours and hours.  She would do this until her arms and legs looked like raw hamburger meat.  Her arms are covered with scar-tissue.  She says it calms her and makes her feel "in control."

12. Strange attention-seeking behavior.  She would do odd things as a sort of "test" for me.  One time she pretended she had a disorder where she could suddenly stop breathing.  She told me it had been acting up a lot lately.  And then lo and behold, suddenly she isn't responding to anyting I'm saying.  I panicked and tried to call the police.  I hung up and tried to call her over and over.  She answered and pretended that she had just put the phone down to get something from the kitchen and that I must have not heard her say it.  Then, a little while later, she admitted that she was "testing" me to see how much I cared about her.  And in an ominous tone, she said, ":)on't worry.  There will be plenty more tests."


I was simply too naive, too inexperienced, and too swept away by the idea that a woman thought SO much of me and wanted ME so much -especially one so HOT, so intense, so passionate, so beautiful.  And being a virgin (she was attracted to my moral ethics and purity), the sexual component was huge, too.  It was like having a porn star for a girlfriend who just wanted to make you happy and promised to never leave you.

Of course, much of this is hindsight informing what I remember.  But some of it did come across as odd.  Still, I had no idea people could be this messed up.  I just thought you love someone, they love you, and you stick together.  That's it.  I had no idea.

[Split black]

Mine was a bit less then a year... . actually mid month will be a year. I stayed initially because shes insanely hot and much much younger then me. I was eh helping her out... . she needed to get away from her ex... who she is now back with... . so I set her up initially in an apt. She used to say... . her mother told her that she needed one in bed, one in her pocket and one on the hook. Sick. I thought she was kidding. ummm no. She was not.

SEX was intense... . I was bored and she made me feel alive and young. I had a blast... . and then... .  it just started to fall apart and never stopped.

I looked into reasons why she was behaving the way she was, because I did fall in love with her in-spite of myself... . she was self destructing actually, coke, booze, pills, sex, couldn't hold down a job, and yet bright and street smart... . Ultimately I found this board and others like it. But I still stayed because I thought I could help her... . and the sex. But then the sex got sparse... . like crumbs... . the demands higher... . and higher. And when I couldn't respond because of work or some other normal reason... . I was letting her down. Then it was my age... . then this then that... . and of course she cheated constantly, unknown to me at the time.

Now its done. Distortion campaign by her about ruined me, I had FINALLY had enough... . but that didnt stop her from contacting me, to see if I was ok... . and then spewing hate... . and twisting reality to fit her beliefs. That was just last week. Yet another break by me of NC.  Im one week clean... . of her disturbing pie hole, and very physically uncomfortable again in my own skin.

Whatever... . it still sux.

[Dutched]

Well you specifically asked for long term r/s and HF.  A really long one, 30+ yrs.  So a as my story.

I was early 20 when I met exw, she a few yrs. younger.

A bit shy, nice looking, normal activities, etc. just common, absolutely not the attention seeker. All evolved in a normal pace, but yes an strong bond developed (a flag?).

Found out via her girlfriend that she have had several boy friends (well still normal on that age) which she ended seeing at the moment the came “to close”  ( a flag ?). Anyway, seemed different with me (lucky me  

Later she had a really big quarrel with her parents. Resulted in an outburst in which she left home. Despite every effort of me (and my parents) under no circumstances she wanted contact again  => the big one!  Lasted for 10 yrs NC.

Finished study, found a good job, got promoted and was asked by a head-hunter for another one. Stable.

In retrospect there have been always minor issues, as difficult to talk about emotional issues, not being able to express real love (well her mother was cold as ice too, so “just” her upbringing I thought), circular arguments, sometimes a big “temperament”, really different behaviour outside an towards others than at home, to me.

She developed mood swings (however was not able to express the cause), so I got sensitive to pick up those signals by reading her eyes…

Got 2 kids. Was in fact a caring mother in fact ( love objects… as they were HER kids…). Towards D she once lost control, for which I pushed her away in order to protect D! Made it absolutely clear never to do it again toward the kids (message was received!) That was the 1st time I witnessed the intense anger/rage, and it shocked me.

Fast forward to about a 20 yrs r/s. Meanwhile rages began towards me, total devaluation. After an outburst she calmly walked away to do some gardening or so, “nothing” happened. Every 3 to 5 months. Lasted for a couple of yrs. in which she always threatened to end the r/s (for which I was immune “ you stop, so you leave the house”).

Went together in couples therapy, slightly helped.  

Later I saw a T, which directed me to “cluster B”. Educated myself, joined a local Group and applied techniques.

Meanwhile exw was strongly advised to see a Psychiatrist, which she absolutely refused, “they” don’t have a problem.

Anyway a 2 months before exw blew all up in a blink of an eye, I received the most wonderful poem she ever made and redecoration of the house (about 25K) was just finished (speaking of setting goals for the future…).  


That was a short life story.

As described in https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves  it applies.

Mr. Randy Kreger (who posted on this Board too) describes a HF as, which is in my case really spot on:

"1. Denial is their primary characteristic. They disavow having any problems and see no need to change. Relationship difficulties, they say, are everyone else’s fault. If family members suggests they may have BPD, they almost always accuse the other person of having it instead. (This is why I strongly advise non-BPs to leave this disclosure to a trained professional)

2. They cope with their pain by raging outward, blaming and accusing family members for real or imagined problems (“acting out”)

3. They refuse to seek help from the mental health system unless someone threatens to end the relationship. If they do go, they usually don’t intend to work on their own issues. In couples therapy, their goal is often to convince the therapist that they are being victimized

4. They may hide their low self-esteem behind a brash, confident pose that hides their inner turmoil. They usually function quite well at work and only display aggressive behavior toward those close to them (high functioning). But the black hole in the gut and their intense self-loathing are still there. It’s just buried deeper

5. If they also have other mental disorders, they’re ones that also allow for high functioning such as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). (These mostly appear concurrently in men—especially APD)

6. Family members’ greatest challenges include coping with verbal abuse, protecting children, trying to get their family member to seel treatment, and maintaining their self-esteem and sense of reality. Partners, especially, are in relationships with Cluster Two BPs. "



Blimbam, sorry chap, but what you describe is surely NOT a High Function BPD.

I can’t see any relation to this treat, although I absolutely understand your deep, deep pain I read in all your posts. Looking for answers, searching, trying to make sense of what happened in order to process all.

I have been there, never one ripped my hart out, never one demolished my soul, never one (of whom I thought to grow old together) caused such total destruction for the rest of my life (even financially I can’t recover anymore as I am mid 50 now).

No emotional mature person could hurt kids in a way exw did. Kids have to be prepared, need reassurance by both parents, etc. NO in their presence it was over in a blink of an eye! Leaving my kids devastated and completely overwhelmed!

So Blimbam, read and process all you can first. The WORKSHOPS / LESSONS, old posts, back to 2007/8. Answers of our “old ambassadors” (sorry ladies/gents), member like Tausk, Arjay, Mutt, etc. and don’t forget member 2010.  

[imsodizzy]

Mine didnt have any just work collegues who she thinks are her friends and former f buddies  but none want to hang out with her she has to chase them down and they used to call her the zbomb i never knew why till later but she has 1 female friend that has been her friend for awhile but she has a single white female thing with her where she wants her life

[Blimblam]

@dutched

I've read all of the lessons through all the links at t the right of the page.  Although I havnt read those threads in their entirety.  I have read all the articles from te main page of the site as well. Also many articles I have found floating on the net and another forum about npd and psychopaths.  Which led me to looking up all the cluster b disorders.  Untill I found the fit. Bpd waif.  But yes I have much more to read and process.  

I listed those red flags because as far as friends I know they told me everything on that list is automatic non relationship material for them.

The thing is my ex was able to function in society everyone thinks of her as a nice sweet girl. She seems to have a lot less issues than what I have read many mention I would think that would classify her as high functioning? But for me I realized their is a certain look in their eye. That's the look that hooks me

[Arminius]

Towards the end of my 7 year r/s I was able to see a bad time coming by a change in her micro expression, something around the eyes... . I'd just KNOW that anytime in the next few minutes there would be an issue, a snipe, an outburst.

I'm talking about something for more sinister in it's presentation that the 'normal' pressed-off look of a spouse or partner... .

[Blimblam]

Towards the end of my 7 year r/s I was able to see a bad time coming by a change in her micro expression, something around the eyes... . I'd just KNOW that anytime in the next few minutes there would be an issue, a snipe, an outburst.

I'm talking about something for more sinister in it's presentation that the 'normal' pressed-off look of a spouse or partner... .

I know this look. There are variations on it also.  The look of knowing they duped you or are getting away with it.  It's often subtle and mixed into another expression to gaslight. 

[imsodizzy]

Yep the kreger description is spot on

[Mutt]

my question here is for members who have been in LTR with a high functioning BPD. were the red flags present early in the relationship ? did you just ignore it like what i did ?

The red flags where there early antony_james. I was with her 7 years, 5 of those years married. I noticed disproportionate anger when we were dating. I was supposed to meet her after working a late shift. I changed plans to go out with my best friend and his girlfriend ( both of us met our wives around the same time) I was just out to get a quick beer and she called and asked when I was coming. We were only seeing other for 3 weeks at that time and the Dr Jeckel side was showing through on the phone, the personality that came out during the devaluation phase prominently years later.

I had an old flip phone and closed the cellphone and had a long lingering moment about the ordeal. It was an old Samsung and lights would go off when I would receive a call and she was repeatedly calling after I had abandoned her unbeknownst to me. She must of called 5 or 6 times in a row, the lights kept going off and I ignored the following calls. My friend couldn't make sense of it. I still recall that night 7 years later. I thought " this isn't right, there's something wrong here".

I ignored it. I ignored my intuition. That was the first of many red flags. I should have just followed my intuition and told her thanks but this is not going to work out, I don't want to see you anymore. Having said that I thank god for my kids. I trust my intuition and follow my gut now.

She is high functioning that she can cope in social settings and she is invisible, but all I can see now is the disorder. I was blind as a bat in FOG while in the marriage.

[goldylamont]

my question here is for members who have been in LTR with a high functioning BPD. were the red flags present early in the relationship ? did you just ignore it like what i did ?

my ex i consider pretty high functioning. even close friends of mine have a hard time accepting a PD label for her (i've only told a select few people). what's odd in my situation is that i don't remember a short idealization phase. when we were together i feel most of the time things were going well, and yes we were really close. i didn't go through tons of recycles either. we were together 4 years. broke up halfway through at 2 years, apart for about 2 or 3 weeks and we got back together another 2 years. while it's hard to remember how things were at the time, and while i'm sure there must have been some idealization going on, i don't remember these crazy highs of her overvaluing or mirroring me. we just got along really well... . until we didn't 

as far as red flags--i don't think i noticed anything until we had been together for about 6-8 months in. maybe there were some jealousy issues around 5 months or so? to make a long story short, around 6 months in though i brought up something about a woman i had previously dated but was still friendly with and she got really nasty on the phone. without giving details she used this as a reason to call me a liar and unfaithful all the way until the end.

another time i believe in the first year we were at her friend's apartment at a party. things started out great but after a while i started feeling like she was avoiding me. very passive aggressive, she'd just move away or not pay attention to me. so, i decided i wasn't going to make a big deal about it, but i wasn't going to stick around either. i tested things by finding her one last time and when she left again i just took off. no need to argue she could explain herself later; i was going home. anyways as i'm walking down the street she calls me from a couple blocks behind so i waited and she caught up, asked me why i was leaving. i told her because of how she was acting, why would she care if i left, and this was the first time i saw the abandonment issues. she was crying and telling me not to leave, etc. pretty intense. i think this was like 8-10 months into the r/s?

of course now i see these as red flags. at the time though i just took these things at face value--could i deal with the jealousy and once-every-two-years abandonment episode? yeah, i could actually. i didn't ignore these things i assessed them and decided if i could work with them. over time i became better about not triggering her jealousies and she became better i feel to a degree on dealing with them... . but eventually this all came crashing down.

what was unacceptable to me--lying, manipulation, devaluation and sex shaming that i saw of her after we broke up. some of this i realized she was doing in the r/s. so really i didn't even see the worst of her behaviors until after we made the final split, and i think she kept behaving worse than when we were together for some time after.

you may not hear this much but i don't feel like i ignored anything. i was just ignorant that the person i was with could be so dishonest and vengeful. i could feel there were issues but didn't realize fully who she was until after i made an intuitive call to end things. thank god i did.

[Lion Fire]

There were red flags early on in with my ex wife, for sure.


1. Constantly talked... . talk talk talk all about herself

2. Jumped right into putting me on a pedestal.  She told me after only talking to me a few times, "I have a feeling I am going to marry you some day."

3. Things moved VERY quickly and intensely.  Suddenly we were talking ALL night and through emails.  Phone bills were up in the hundreds of dollars a month.

4. Things were intensely sexual.  I had never met anyone before who initiated sexual affection so strongly and so quickly.  We lived long distance from each other, so this happened through phone sex.  I was just talking normally, and then I suddenly hear her moaning.  I also found out that she was picking up a 16 year old high school kid from the local high school, sleeping with him, and then dropping him back off.  She was 22 at the time.  She also would tell me that she "needed it" so badly that she was willing to call up certain people that she knew would give it to her, no questions asked.

5. Sexual fantasies were highly disturbing, including involving my father (whom she had never met, but whome she idolized into a sort of father-figure, powerful business man) and her uncle, her sexually molester her when she was a little girl.

6. Clear signs of dysfunction and up-and-down relationships with her family.

7. Signs of neglecting her child -all of that time online, all of that time talking to me... . no wonder he was acting out all the time.

8. Signs of patterned behavior.  I could tell that I moved into a role while she pushed another guy out.  And I could tell that it was the same way with the other guy... . very fast, very sexual, suddenly talking about marriage and love and forever, etc.

9. Once we were married and moved in together, I saw the "waif" and the rager come out.  I began to see that she did whatever she wanted and expected compliance.  Yet she was extremely needy.  I felt very needed, but that neediness led almost immediately into accusation against me.  I "lied" about who I am.  I wasn't sexual enough, wasn't affectionate enough for her

10.  She had an obvious sense of shame. She also revealed that she was sexually abused as a child.  

11.  Skin picking.  

12. Strange attention-seeking behavior.

Damn! This is so unbelievably accurate OutOfEgypt!

1. My ex talked and talked all the time... . to be fair we both spoke a lot but she wasn't the greatest listener.

2. She put me on a unrealistic pedestal. She told later me that the first day she met me she decided that I was the one. Her compliments were disproportionate. I bought them.

3. we would skype at least an hour a day and exchange too many messages during the day. I felt smothered but also flattered. It was so intense, I felt overwhelmed but misjudged this as being fearful of love.

4. She was so sexual. She initiated sex on skype and would send me graphic messages and also lured me into other stuff via video communications. I thought it was weird but then went ahead despite my reservations.

5. She was like a porn star in bed, I thought i had landed in heaven but felt weird as time went on. She also spoke about my father (who she knows) and said if he was 20 years younger she would have considered being with him. What the heck ! 

6. Always hassles with her family

7. She spent so much time on my case and neglected normal life necessities.

8. patterned behaviour. She told me a bit about her past relationships. All souned a mess with the same outcomes of her ditching the guy for being a loser, liar, abuser and cheat. After a short while, I told her that I was not comfortable with her disclosures and asked her not to tell me anymore about her past sex life and relationships. This was my way of ignoring red flags I now believe.

9. Once we were together, trouble started soon. I was not sexual enough, couldn't please her, couldn't provide for her, I was boring, couldn't make her laugh, too selfish, too withdrawn and distant.She tried to boss and control the whole show. She took charge of every little thing but at the same time was overwhelmingly needy and insecure.

10. She had an awful childhood... . neglected, broken home, schizophrenic abusive mother. She was a victim of incest for 7 years but told me she was very attracted to the abuser which made her confused. This freaked me out! She was so ashamed of her past but would quickly snap out of this with blaming others.

11. She never picked her skin but was obsessed with her body hair. She would go on and on about saving up for advanced laser surgery to remove every folicle of hair. She had extensive scarring in a private area that she could not explain in a way that made sense to me. I'll never know what that was about.

12. She was outrageous at times... . kicking up a fuss in shops and restaurants and being the centre of attention. I put this down to her assertive and outgoing nature but it was strange tbh.

[OutOfEgypt]

Lion Fire... . for that to be accurate for you, all I can say is, "I am truly sorry!"

[Dutched]

Hi Blimbam

I really don’t want to hijack this post, so I keep it short.

A comparison of what friends say and your experience is not valid to label a person.

You say her background is from a dysfunctional family. Have you considered the influence of that background?

Values in life, in society, are highly influenced by upbringing and social (economic) surroundings. 

Compare values of gang members and those of “old families” at the East Coast. 

It is not to discomfort you, I also feel the pain.

Long ago a member on this Board, named “Livia”, had a footer which described it all:

"They take with no conscience, and leave with no remorse as an emotional 4 year old” –Livia-

[antjs]

" She had extensive scarring in a private area that she could not explain in a way that made sense to me. I'll never know what that was about."

Lion fire WOW ! Same ! She claimed that it is a natural malformation but i did not buy it. It was a cut near her private area down under ! How did not i question that after the relationship     

[antjs]

1-  Jumped right into putting me on a pedestal.  She told me after only talking to me a few times " i am glad that i have finally find you. you are my source of happiness and you make me feel special." even before the first date when we were chatting i was explaining a story where i was about to get physically hurt. she exaggerated her reaction and said "you are too good to be wasted." this was before meeting me.

2- Things moved VERY quickly and intensely. i moved in with her after a week.

3-  Things were intensely sexual.  I had never met anyone before who initiated sexual affection so strongly and so quickly.

4- long history of sexual partners including buddies and mentioning doing it in weird places like the beach and a side street.

5- sexual fantasies about me being a relative of hers. we were once going to bed to have sex and she said "can i be your mom in bed ?"      

6- Clear signs of dysfunction and up-and-down relationships with her family. she escaped her parents and her country after her divorce because they were "over protective" and she is living on tourist visas now between two countries. she has not spoken to her parents in months now. she just texts them saying that she is ok.

7- Signs of patterned behavior specially in romantic relationships.  I could tell that I moved into a role while she pushed another guy out.  And I could tell that it was the same way with the other guy... . very fast, very sexual, suddenly talking about marriage and love and forever, etc.

8- she once told me during an intimate moment "I fear on you if we left each other. I forget about people too easily." i was scared and confused at that moment but i did not comment

9- she mentioned during a drama episode that she is a miserable woman and i dont want to be with her and her childhood is traumatic and shameful. i think this was a lucid moment but also using reverse psychology to bait me.

10- Strange attention-seeking behavior. specially in groups. she liked to control where we eat, how we do something, when we do it but at the same time she was needing the attention, the approval that she is leading and in control.

11- she was a porn star in bed. she lured me back to one recycle that lasted a week after i broke up with her. she insisted that we should meet at her place cause she is not comfortable talking in public. logical argument was not on her side. she seduced me. after sex my head felt like a metal band inside with all these thoughts and confusions but i was sure at that moment that she does not know anything about love.

12- after two weeks of idealization shame, detachment, Triangulation with her last ex, belittling all typical BPD behavior during the devaluation stage kicked in.

13- one episode of crazy making, she said "you cant be with me. you are moving to work in another country soon." i said "i told you my plan. if you really want this to work you can put some effort." she said "i will not go to another country and then be left by you." i said "who says i am going to leave you ?" she shouted "i said. i know. you will like everybody else i have known in my life."

14- she had an obvious cut in her vagina

15- during luring me back for the only recycle, she said she might be pregnant. since i am familiar with her cycle i was in my head like "really ! you feel that you are pregnant after only one week of your ovulation " fear of abandonment can make wonders.

this all happened to me. now that i understand the disorder. i feel sorry for both of us not just me. i wish her well