Maladaptive daydreaming and Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder

[January86]

Hi everyone  !

It's been a while since a I write in this amazing forum that changed my life about a year ago  .

Last year I decided to moved out from my parent's home, as living with my BPD hermit mother was very toxic, also, I had just found out about BPD and realised all the abuse I suffered as a child, so I couldnt handle it. Living away from her has been a positive change in my life bigger than I could ever imagine.

I wanted to share with you two findings about myself I discovered thanks to focusing in mindfulness and sports. (I copy from wikipedia  )

"Maladaptive Daydreaming" is a psychological term first used by Eli Somer[1] to describe a condition in which a person excessively daydreams or fantasizes, sometimes as a response to prior psychological trauma or abuse.

I have two kinds of daydreams, both related to social situations:

-very elaborated scenarios where people I value, admire or whose opinion is important to me watch me making something great, looking good, being with famous people... . (yes, it's ridiculous  .

-Most commonly I revisit conversations I had and redo them in my head, changing what I would like to change, or prepare for future conversations I worry about. I know everyone does this, it's just my mind is working on this all the time nonstop. I realised by practicing mindfulness, I can be washing dishes, running, talking to my boyfriend... . but my mind is working on these hypotetic conversations all the time.

Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), also called anankastic personality disorder, is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of preoccupation with orderliness, perfectionism, mental and interpersonal control and a need for power over one's environment, at the expense of flexibility, openness, and efficiency. It causes major suffering and stress, especially in areas of personal relationships. Persons afflicted with this disorder may find it hard to relax, always feeling that time is running out for their activities and that more effort is in need to achieve their goals. They may plan their activities down to the minute—a manifestation of the compulsive tendency to keep control over their environment and to dislike unpredictable things as things they can't control.

This wikipedia explanation describes me perfectly. My agenda is full of tasks classified by importance. I even have to write down my worries and classify them too in order to be calm and be able to function. This has advantages, I am really disciplined and have great results in my studies. However I never relax.

I would like to know if any other son/daughter of BPD parents share these situations

Big hug 

[Ziggiddy]

Hi January86 I read this post with a good deal of interest. My father is OCD I am sure of it- endless lists, focussing in on one mispronounced word at the expense of a long story, getting upset over the least variation from his planned schedules etc. I hadn't specifically thought about him

"always feeling that time is running out for their activities and that more effort is in need to achieve their goals"

But it is very true. more to the point, reading that just now I have to admit that I recognise it in myself. I have no time for relaxation as I will just make myself feel guilty over it. All those things I 'want' to do I am not doing because i am just sitting here looking out at my garden or watching my kids jumping on the trampoline. I know those things are good and healthy and I will be happy for the memories later but I cannot shake the idea that I should be doing something more productive because time is running out!

More importantly your honest evaluation of your daydreams really struck me. It is something that bothers the hell out of me that I have this one obsessive daydream that I indulge in over and over.

Several years ago I had a brief relationship with a guy I admired very much - he held values that are important to me, he was confident, well spoken and very physically appealing. His best friend was a girl whom I was quite threatened by. I felt like I was prettier than her but in every other way she was superior to me. I was also quite convinced that she fancied him but he didn't know it

Well, one night he invited a few of us over his house for dinner and she was there, directing the proceedings.  (Was I jealous? Was I what!) After dinner, he was playing the guitar and singing what he knew was one of my favourite songs. i joined in although I am not good at singing. Well she instructed me to stop singing as 'they wanted to listen to HIM and not me'. I was mortified. And very very angry.

Since then (20 years!) I have practised singing so I will be better at it (in particular that song) and I regularly replay that scenario and change it to them all being excessively admiring of my wonderful singing voice and marvellous ability to express myself so well in a song. He is also then very sorry that he didn't stick up for me in response to her constant stream of nitpicky insults to me and he desires me but I reject (kindly) him as unworthy enough for me. I also refrain from belittling her in my fantasy as it is enough that she recognises my superiority.

Phew! That is the first time I have admitted that. Feels weird. I'm not sure if it's what you were looking for and I'm not sure if it's how other people fantasize but it gives me more satisfaction than is strictly healthy!

I also have the very great privilege of being friendly with two or three very well known people. I am grateful for their friendship (they are very kind and lovely people) but I also have the strongest desire that my 'enemies'  are aware that I am friends with them. Along the same lines I am in a Facebook group where I have received a good deal of attention for a couple of random things and I want to crow at times "LOOK! look how many likes this comment got!" to people who have been cruel to me or devalued me.

Is this narcissistic? possibly. is it understandable - hell yeah! We all need recognition - those of us whose parents failed to give it doubly so.

is it so bad? Well if we are aware of it we have the ability to manage it and that can give us a measure of balance.

Anyway hope it helps. And congratulations on taking such a great step in getting in control of your life. It must have been an emotional time for you and I'm glad it has brought improvements to your life.

As far as not relaxing goes, have you thought about why you find it difficult to relax? What would be the negative effects for you to 'take some time off'? Do you feel you deserve it? If not are you able to identify what it is that makes you feel that way? Is it your own authentic voice that tells you things about relaxing? or possibly someone else's?

[lucyhoneychurch]

Hi January    

Well - goodness - yes... . you've distilled something for me - on both of your topics. I have an incident where someone has honestly truly, once again, taken advantage (I mean the same person, not like people take advantage with me 24/7 ) and I have drawn the line in the sand again, said I will not be subjected to whatever it is - letting me sit and wait somewhere, twice within 2 days and not texting that running late, and now telling me it's no big deal - not going to happen - promising me that an issue I have that I need to tell my children about will be done on my time in my way - yes yes, sure you do what you have to do, I've got your back, I understand - and then telling one of them and walking away and letting me handle the fallout -

back to the incident(s) of this nature, both with this person and others over the years I replay them, not to inflame myself about what that person said or did or didn't do but in this mortified thought that I overstepped, I was the one out of bounds, I was the unreasonable one. When actually it was long LONG overdue, the acccounting and refusal to absorb disrespect. What I think I am doing is trying to probe if I was justified in looking out for myself. In protecting myself. I would walk over hot coals to protect anyone I care about. Funny how I dissect over and over if *I* deserved advocacy, if *I* was in the right for saying "enough."

This will keep me awake at night. This will be what I think about instead of enjoying blooms in my garden. I have to almost reconnect to the indignation again, and then attempt to truly cut it off once and for all, to tell myself that what I did and said was okay, that I have that right to tell someone to stop their abusive stuff.

They really do me a favor when it's so outrageous that it takes maybe one last "perusal" and I can shelve it for good.   

The OCD stuff - my god in heaven. Clover creeping into a flower border? pollen on my countertops from windows open? a handful of pertinent papers or bills stacked neatly enough? must address it *now* and 'declutter' or weed or clean.

I grew up in a total pigpen filthy sty.

I would say, fairly enough to myself, I let my children be packrats. The purpose of a door is to close it, and I taught myself once I realized the daughters in particular loved their art things and clothes and shoes and stuff where they chose, not where I preferred - so close the door.     Outta sight outta mind, mom.   

The son is the compulsive neat freak. From age 4 or so. Legos, clothes, shoes, books - yet he's the most laid back of the three around other people and loves to play his guitar or banjo and loosen folks up.     This often involves rum and coke too .   

If you take a horse or a dog, and you train it to jump when you say jump, and you give that animal a confined, restrained upbringing/rearing, you can hardly wonder why that animal, until the day it dies, plays out each day as it was reared to do. Triggers like noises or a piece of paper floating in the wind, have you ever seen a horse bolt and shy at nothing? Temple Grandin wrote an incredible book about cattle in the slaughter process - she is autistic and actually worked for that industry helping calm the cattle moving through the chutes. She would crawl through, and with her brain working as it does, she could identify what was going to make them balk and bottleneck. Sometimes nothing more than the way the light played through the space. She is incredible and her book taught me that we are all organisms programmed with those early confines and perameters and experiences.

We are what we are. Not what we do. 

As are our parents, sometimes most especially the abusive ones. They were molded and shaped as well. Sadly so in so many cases.

Thank you for your thoughts. 

[P.F.Change]

Hi, January86,

It is good to hear from you. It sounds like you have done a lot of self-reflection this year and discovered some things about yourself. I can relate to the maladaptive daydreaming, too, and to a couple of traits of OCPD. Things are much better for me in both areas than they were before I sought therapy years ago. Resolving childhood trauma helped a great deal in reducing my need to comfort myself with fantasies.

Do you think your awareness of these behaviors is related to the Mourning stages of the Survivor's Guide-->? Are they areas you want to change or improve? If so, have you thought about working with a therapist? I would be interested to hear what you find helpful.

I also think these are good questions:

As far as not relaxing goes, have you thought about why you find it difficult to relax? What would be the negative effects for you to 'take some time off'? Do you feel you deserve it? If not are you able to identify what it is that makes you feel that way? Is it your own authentic voice that tells you things about relaxing? or possibly someone else's?

Wishing you peace,

PF

P.S. Just to clarify for others in the thread, OCD and OCPD are distinct disorders. They have some things in common, but are still pretty different. The main thing that sets them apart is that people with OCD experience obsessions and compulsions, which they often find disturbing. People with OCPD tend to see their behavior as efficient and beneficial.

[momtara]

I wonder if I do some of this type of daydreaming too to deal with trauma.  It is one of the few things that cheers me up.  I use it in my art and writing.  I wonder if that's common too?  It allows me to make something productive of it.

[Valley Quail]

Hi January86,


Great to hear of the great new direction your life is headed in. I can definitely relate to the OCD... . I often feel the need to check three times that a curling iron or such isn't plugged in before leaving the house... . and can relate to always feeling that time is running out for activities and that more effort is in need to achieve goals. Just yesterday I too made an agenda full of tasks classified by importance. I didn't know that this could be caused by having a BPD parent. So thankful that you and everyone shared experiences about it.

Big hugs to everyone 

[formflier]

Last year I decided to moved out from my parent's home, as living with my BPD hermit mother was very toxic, also, I had just found out about BPD and realised all the abuse I suffered as a child, so I couldnt handle it. Living away from her has been a positive change in my life bigger than I could ever imagine.

Congratulations for taking some important steps in your life!  I'm glad you have seen some "fruits" of your work.

You seem to be very open and honest at your self-evaluations.  This will help you.  Please keep coming back and posting!

[January86]

Hi again!

I feel overwhelmed by your replies   . Some of our experiences are so similar.

Ziggiddy, it’s funny that I also have this –boy with a guitar and great values- scene in my life. For me it was 7 years ago, it was a period of my life where I met an amazing group of people as I was in my Uni exchange in a different country, but I wasn’t ready to be myself with others, I was very shy. Many of my daydreams are about this group of people, I dream how I would behave now if I was there back then.  When I buy clothes I think if they would like them, when I am travelling I think about the idea of randomly meeting them, … I feel “unfaithful” to my boyfriend when buying a dress I think if would fit with them in a party. Yes! Phew! This is so private for me, I wouldn’t be able to talk about it anywhere else.

Lucyhoneychurch, lately I have been standing up for myself in a couple of situations, nothing too serious, (just my younger flatmates being rude for example). In these I was totally sure it was them crossing the line and I had to talk to them.  Afterwards I had to revisit the conversation in my head for weeks as I was worried it was me who was being unreasonable or  sounded stupid.  I had to ask my friends many times if I had been appropriate to be sure. I’m scared that I can “lose my North” and behave like my Mum in one of her rages. The problem is in these situations they crossed the line a lot objectively so I had the courage to do something, but in other situations where it isnt perfectly clear I’m unable to stand up for myself as I’m too worried of being wrong.

I can also relate to this feeling:

This will be what I think about instead of enjoying blooms in my garden. I have to almost reconnect to the indignation again, and then attempt to truly cut it off once and for all

The reason, however, is different. Two years ago I had a bad depression and I hurted someone I love. I know it was my fault, there was an explanation –I was at my lowest point and disoriented, not very aware- but I know it’s not an excuse.  This person forgave me but I know his pain is still there sometimes, and I try to forgive myself but I can’t  :'(This guilt feeling is an obsessive thought for me, not in a daydreaming way but I have to stop myself and tell me “ok, this was wrong, but you have right to enjoy this or that” and try to cut it off… This is at least once a day.

Valley Quail, it’s the same for me: plugs, hair straightener, kitchen/oven… Once I asked the hotel reception to keep my hair straightener as it was just a bit hot and couldnt leave it in the table of my room but I needed to leave the hotel. They told me “It’s almost already cold”... . it was embarrasing but I couldnt leave it there and enjoy the holiday day if I did!

And it’s interesting because in my case daydreaming has a lot to do with it. As I’m not focused in the present when I do things I have to check it all many times.

About not relaxing, I have to admit at the moment I am studying very hard for some official national exams, they require to be very disciplined and it’s necessary in order to have free time as well. It’s very interesting what you ask me, because, I am not sure I want to stop being so organized. I like having “my head and emotions” organized, so I don’t go crazy –like my mother- and I love the results  I get from the task organization –I can travel because I save money for example- but I am aware it may not be healthy and also if I have kids I don’t want to be like this.

Thank you all for helping me figure things out and sharing your feelings with me