Differences in public and private persona

[brokenbutalive]

I'm just wondering if your experiences were the same as mine. My ex was extremely high functioning. At work (she worked in the same place as me) she was very popular with colleagues and customers alike, she was known as one of the best workers, extremely smart, funny, witty, bubbly, flirtatious, nearly always a smile on her face. Similarly on nights out with the work crew she was the life and soul of the party.

Then there was her private persona with me. Sullen, nasty, sulky, critical, prone to sudden rages over the most trivial things, bullying, no fun to be with. Also always bad mouthing the coworkers that she was so nice to in person. Just a total Jekyll and Hyde.

And this is what makes it so difficult for our mutual friends. They can't even begin to imagine that she's anything other than the lovely girl they know. If anything, I know for a fact they think I'm the crazy one. On the many occasions we had fallen out or she was giving me the silent treatment for a couple of weeks I would be in a dreadful state about it, as moody as hell at work. Whilst she was exactly the same bubbly character she always was. She seemed to be able to turn her moods on and off like the flick of a switch.so I got the reputation of being sullen and moody whilst she remained loved and respected by everyone. I even caught her laughing about me with other co-workers at various times. Crazy, just crazy. Now I'm gone both from her and that company and I've lost most of my old friends from there because they're on her side. It's upsetting but at least I know the truth, as little consolation as that is most of the time.

Were your exes the same?

[Arminius]

It's almost as if they are a different species and they all share traits.

The woman you describe IS the woman I lived with... . work a real professional, high achieving albeit confrontational, popular, funny, outgoing, with only the occasional lapse like throwing a chair across the office ( and I mean an above the head launch) which was written off as 'out of character'  ... . if only they knew!

At home, she was all of those nice things too, except when she wasn't... . And when she wasn't, she was critical, unpredictable, nasty. Two sides of a coin,  Jekyll  and Hyde is correct. She once told me that her previous ( female ) partner had called her Jekyll and Hyde...

In June early years the mood swings were so brief and infrequent that I wrote them off. Nowadays, I wish I'd run for the hills. She gave me a false sense of what I thought life could be. No normal woman can compete with the adulation, the idealisation, the WORSHIP she bestowed upon me.

And the downside, the devaluation, the splitting black was even more extreme that the initial idealisation.

Her coworkers think I'm, 'nasty and manipulative' . This opinion must be based solely on what she, in waif mode, would have told them. Lies about me to gain sympathy, just as she had lied to me about her exes, no doubt. I recall wondering how this wonderful human being could have been treated so, so badly but them. But it was all lies.

I can see, looking back, that my ex set me up to look controlling in the eyes of her coworkers. She would invite me along to afterwork drinks, dinners, Christmas parties etc, and I'd be the only 'significant other' there. I now know she gave her coworkers the impression that I forced myself to these events to keep my eye in her. A complete and utter lie.

She once asked me to collect her from a work party, and when I did, she asked me to rev the engine of the sportscast as we drive away. She wanted to show off a little, she said.

Later I found out that she'd told people I drove us off in a temper, hence the loud engine.

'Pity me, look at how defenceless and waif like I am... . ' That should be tattooed on her soul.

[Octoberfest]

I had the opposite experience.  It was in public that I saw my BPDex flirt with other guys, make jokes and laugh at things in very poor taste, smoke, and act out.  At the two formal events we went to, dress and heels and suit and tie type affairs, she ended up crying or fighting with other girls and making a scene, ruining the night.  It was when we were alone, just us and two together, that I saw (usually) the girl I fell in love with.  The sweet, caring, sensitive one. We screamed and yelled at each other some (over her public behavior or her being shady (cheating and lying)), but the best times when we were together and alone.  That is one of the hardest parts of all of this for me.  The fact that if I ever saw her again, I wouldn't be able to pull her away from the crowd and look into her eyes and kiss her. That she is no longer mine. That we have lost the intimacy we once had... . which is a huge reason I don't think I will ever be able to maintain a friendship or any sort of arrangement with someone once we split up if we have dated. Maybe it is the first love aspect, but it is just so weird to me to have intimacy like I had with her and then... . no longer have it. It doesn't seem like something that should be able to come and go.

[AwakenedOne]

Were your exes the same?

Yeah, my ex was 90% of what you have described. She is very high functioning, super friendly, caring and nice. Thing is though, it isn't real. Everything is an act, lie or manipulation. I lost all our mutual friends because they believe her lies. A Jekyll and Hyde transition when she came home most of the time. Kind of frustrating to lose roughly 40-50 people because they believe her and think I'm am a controlling devil. Whatever... . they can have her.

[Theo41]

Yes this was definitely the way my wife was during the early years of our marriage. "House devil street angel."  After a few years she added something to the routine: to sometimes be quite ugly to me when in the company of others and stressed out. In recent years she has been unable to control herself entirely outside the home and I have had to set and enforce boundaries. I have come to realize that I usually do nothing to deserve ugly treatment ( I used to buy her line: " I wouldn't do or say that if u didn't... . " ie it's was all my fault for provoking her with passive aggressive behavior.) in any event nobody deserves to be verbally abused... . so I don't take it any more.  Theo

[brokenbutalive]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Arminius - yes mine very occasionally let her face slip in public, usually when she was very drunk. Always woke up the next day and claimed to remember nothing of it. So it was swept under the carpet, it never happened... . that revving the engine story is frightening though. It's crazy what they will do to play the victim role

Octoberfest - I'm totally with you on the friendship thing. Sadly I fell into that trap and stayed there for about two years. Which was basically two years playing the boyfriend role without getting any of the good stuff of being in a relationship. With her it was the opposite. She had someone who adored her, would run round after her, to use as she saw fit, without the responsibility of having to give anything back

Awakenedone - it's only now that I'm coming to terms with the full extent of the lies. It's a very elaborate web. I agree with you though. They are welcome to her.

Theo41 - yeah just like you I used to believe it was all my fault. I was so infatuated, had her on so high a pedestal that I just believed all the bull___ "no one has ever annoyed me as much as you do", " it's your fault I always feel like this" , "I'm completely out of your league" "your the stupidest person I've ever known". And I just bought it all and grovelled for forgiveness. Then one night when drunk she let it slip that her ex boyfriend (who she had demonised for allegedly cheating on her) had claimed that she was possibly bipolar. With that the curtain fell, I knew my gut instinct was right and that it wasn't all my fault... .

[BacknthSaddle]

I'm just wondering if your experiences were the same as mine. My ex was extremely high functioning. At work (she worked in the same place as me) she was very popular with colleagues and customers alike, she was known as one of the best workers, extremely smart, funny, witty, bubbly, flirtatious, nearly always a smile on her face. Similarly on nights out with the work crew she was the life and soul of the party.

Then there was her private persona with me. Sullen, nasty, sulky, critical, prone to sudden rages over the most trivial things, bullying, no fun to be with. Also always bad mouthing the coworkers that she was so nice to in person. Just a total Jekyll and Hyde.

I even caught her laughing about me with other co-workers at various times.

Were your exes the same?

Almost exactly the same.  For what it's worth, this makes it believable to her co-workers that all of her relationships have failed because of the terrible nature of the guys she's been with, because, I mean, she so caring and friendly, how could she be anything but loving and caring in a relationship?  It's really astonishing. 

[trappedinlove]

I've seen great differences in behaviour with my uBPDxso as well between how she would act publicly which is very high functioning and full of confidence, even a bit narcissistic to what she exhibited intimately when she exposed her insecurities, anxiety, and depression.  In certain cases the extremity seemed like a dissociative state to me as she looked like a different person (and Dissociative Disorders tend to comorbid with BPD and (C)PTSD) and in certain cases this felt more like mirroring and blending-in with her environment related to abandonment fears.

Either way, this resonates with what I've experienced.

TIL

[Mutt]

I'm just wondering if your experiences were the same as mine. My ex was extremely high functioning. At work (she worked in the same place as me) she was very popular with colleagues and customers alike, she was known as one of the best workers, extremely smart, funny, witty, bubbly, flirtatious, nearly always a smile on her face. Similarly on nights out with the work crew she was the life and soul of the party.

Then there was her private persona with me. Sullen, nasty, sulky, critical, prone to sudden rages over the most trivial things, bullying, no fun to be with. Also always bad mouthing the coworkers that she was so nice to in person. Just a total Jekyll and Hyde.

I even caught her laughing about me with other co-workers at various times.

Were your exes the same?

Almost exactly the same. For what it's worth, this makes it believable to her co-workers that all of her relationships have failed because of the terrible nature of the guys she's been with, because, I mean, she so caring and friendly, how could she be anything but loving and caring in a relationship?  It's really astonishing. 

It would make me question why she chooses the wrong person each and every time? These are her choices really, why is she not choosing wisely? I would think the logical thing would be for the non-disordered people that have a friendship that spans years would start to detect this pattern. This is a BPD waif and she is need of rescuers. My ex has friends that she has know for several years some decades and they still listen. I think it goes to show that they are gullible. People listen to the stories, have sympathy and are rescuing / enabling but in reality there are two sides to every story.

[crushed_to_pieces]

Absolutely! My ex fiance was a high functioning BPD. He is a radio personality with a morning talk show, and comes across very different on air. He does a lot of public appearances with charity organizations and on local TV stations, but in private, he was EXTREMELY different - very Dr. Jekyll/Mr Hyde.

Behind closed doors he was narcissistic, controlling, jealous, irrational, emotionally abusive, etc. It was devastating. After our break up he used his public platform to gain sympathy for being the "single father who is unlucky in love and just can't find the right woman"!  It made me sick because I loved him with all my heart and went above and beyond to make him happy - and here he is, playing the role of "victim"!

I just have to remind myself that I dodged a bullet by not marrying him, and that anyone who truly knows him well will see the contrast in his personality and behaviors.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey BBA, Same here.  In public, she was gregarious, caring and popular, the unofficial "mayor" of our small town.  In private, she could be belligerent, abusive and attacking, like a character out of a Stephen King novel.  When triggered, she would rage and rampage, smashing things, breaking down doors and punching a hole in the wall.  Friends and colleagues don't get it; they are sympathetic to her about our divorce, while avoiding me like the plague.  It's OK, because I know what the truth is.  No matter how many times my BPDxW says the sky is green, I still know that it's blue.  LuckyJim

[charred]

Public vs private... different. She was high functioning, and in public would be outgoing, in charge, always politically correct, would give donations to charities at grocery stores... chat with the people enough to make shure she was remembered and outwardly seemed like the nicest, morally upright person you could hope to meet. Privately... she lacked any integrity whatsoever, was cynical, untrustworthy, petty and vicious.  My daughter broke a bone in an accident... she laughed then had to force an upset look. Basically a petulant vindictive evil 3 yr old... in an adults body, I think the public persona is more like dress-up than anything else. To her it all seemed to be a game... and to play that game was to be defeated before you even start.

You can't reason with the irrational, or win with it.

[OutOfEgypt]

My ex was not *as* high functioning, but very similar in that she comes across as very charismatic and vivacious -life of the party.  She likes to take charge and has that 'leadership' quality, and many people fawn over her.  She could gain friends (and sympathy... . and guys who wanted her) very easily.

But you know what... . lots of people can sense what is behind the mask.  Probably more than you think.  I've encountered that a lot.  People actually saw far more than I thought they did, though I never told them anything about her.

But there are still those who probably wouldn't believe the truth about her or say something completely useless and infuriating like, "Well YOU let her be like that!"  Ah... . I see.  It's my fault.  That's how you're going to try to reconcile the person you think you know with the person I actually do know?  Thanks a lot

I came to a place where I basically don't even care to defend or justify anything to anybody any longer.  That is my old life.  *I* know how it was, and *I* know who she really is behind the mask, and that is what's really important.  I don't discuss my old life unless it is with someone that I know is truly open-minded and trustworthy and willing to listen.  If I sense anybody is one of her "minions", I keep them at arms-length emotionally and just conduct my life as usual, without ever talking about my ex or anything.  If anyone asks me to explain things and I sense that they really just want to poke holes in me, I refuse to discuss it and tell them that is my old life and I have no interest in reliving it.  You really owe nobody an explanation or a justification for what you have seen, felt, and lived through.  Lots of people -even well-meaning people- want to think they understand and know what went wrong or what you ought to do.  And you know they don't.

[BacknthSaddle]

I'm just wondering if your experiences were the same as mine. My ex was extremely high functioning. At work (she worked in the same place as me) she was very popular with colleagues and customers alike, she was known as one of the best workers, extremely smart, funny, witty, bubbly, flirtatious, nearly always a smile on her face. Similarly on nights out with the work crew she was the life and soul of the party.

Then there was her private persona with me. Sullen, nasty, sulky, critical, prone to sudden rages over the most trivial things, bullying, no fun to be with. Also always bad mouthing the coworkers that she was so nice to in person. Just a total Jekyll and Hyde.

I even caught her laughing about me with other co-workers at various times.

Were your exes the same?

Almost exactly the same. For what it's worth, this makes it believable to her co-workers that all of her relationships have failed because of the terrible nature of the guys she's been with, because, I mean, she so caring and friendly, how could she be anything but loving and caring in a relationship?  It's really astonishing. 

It would make me question why she chooses the wrong person each and every time? These are her choices really, why is she not choosing wisely? I would think the logical thing would be for the non-disordered people that have a friendship that spans years would start to detect this pattern. This is a BPD waif and she is need of rescuers. My ex has friends that she has know for several years some decades and they still listen. I think it goes to show that they are gullible. People listen to the stories, have sympathy and are rescuing / enabling but in reality there are two sides to every story.

Agree completely.  I would add that very few of her friendships are close or "span years," which probably increases the gullibility. 

[OutOfEgypt]

so I got the reputation of being sullen and moody whilst she remained loved and respected by everyone

Yup.  Same here.  She would tell her stupid, duped friends what an unhappy person I was and how it always made her unhappy, yet she got to present herself to others (and to herself) as this ever-happy, optimistic, charismatic leader whose only real problem was the dead-weight of a sullen husband she had.  Projection, much?  She blamed me for it to my face, too.  Of course, did she ever take any responsibility for how it was a one-way relationship where I was lied to, blamed, taken for granted, cheated on, gaslit, and treated like I was the crazy one?  No.  Guess what?  That doesn't tend to make anybody happy.  But she capitalized on that.  And that made me the perfect scapegoat.  She got to blame me for her unhappiness and all the awful things she did.

The point is... . you know the truth.  She's not going to stop being like this.  So, as much as it sucks, step out and away from it and rest content in the truth.  Accept that this is what she does, and nothing you can do will stop it.  In time, however, more and more people will see the mask slip.  In fact, the fact that she will keep doing what she does will only help vindicate you in the end.  But you don't need that.  YOU know the truth.  God knows the truth.  And anybody really close to you probably knows it, too.

[OutOfEgypt]

Basically a petulant vindictive evil 3 yr old... in an adults body, I think the public persona is more like dress-up than anything else.

Brilliant

[Arminius]

Charred, the laughing at other's misfortune, I can totally relate. I guess it the stunted emotional development . As for the inappropriate and hyena-like laugh that went with these inappropriate expressions of joy? Well, I look back and wonder how I didn't  guess she was damaged.

[Arminius]

Backinthesaddle,

The shallow friendships, none of length... check!

How about the Facebook friends that she confided BS about me with, that were really only friends of her family, not really her friends at all... . And mostly she is FB buddies with people she never sees... . Back in the old country... .

Lack of real friendships seems to be a feature

[Mutt]

I would add that very few of her friendships are close or "span years," which probably increases the gullibility.

Backinthesaddle,

The shallow friendships, none of length... check!

Come to think of it BacknthSaddle my ex had one friend that was long term and others that would phase in and out. She would split her as well and there were long periods were she was split black and did not talk to her friend. She would tell me a different story and blaming friend for something or that her friend was too "needy" etc. If her needs were not being met, friends suffered as well.

[OutOfEgypt]

My ex would put up a persona to me, too, though.  She would always say how she never talks about me to others, and even when she did she would always defend me and never let them say anything bad about me.  She made it sound like regardless of all the truly evil things she did to me that she really loved me.  And then occasionally I would get a glimpse of what is behind the mask... . either through spying one of her emails or having her "accidentally" Cc: me in replying to her lover.  What I read there actually matched what I sensed was really inside her... . talking about how stupid I am, how she's much smarter than me, talking about me with utter contempt -like thinking about how stupid I am and hurting me is funny to her.  At what point do we just stop trying to call this a disorder and question if they are just plain selfish and evil?

[Lucky Jim]

I came to a place where I basically don't even care to defend or justify anything to anybody any longer.  That is my old life.  *I* know how it was, and *I* know who she really is behind the mask, and that is what's really important.

Like what you're saying there, OutOfEgypt.  As well as this:

The point is... . you know the truth.  She's not going to stop being like this.  So, as much as it sucks, step out and away from it and rest content in the truth.  Accept that this is what she does, and nothing you can do will stop it.  In time, however, more and more people will see the mask slip.  In fact, the fact that she will keep doing what she does will only help vindicate you in the end.  But you don't need that.  YOU know the truth.  God knows the truth.  And anybody really close to you probably knows it, too.

[BacknthSaddle]

I would add that very few of her friendships are close or "span years," which probably increases the gullibility.

Backinthesaddle,

The shallow friendships, none of length... check!

Come to think of it BacknthSaddle my ex had one friend that was long term and others that would phase in and out. She would split her as well and there were long periods were she was split black and did not talk to her friend. She would tell me a different story and blaming friend for something or that her friend was too "needy" etc. If her needs were not being met, friends suffered as well.

Yep all of this resonates with me.  Mine essentially told me about two long-term friends that were not part of her family; everyone else was someone she had met through work in the last couple years and had superficial relationships with (and who phased in and out).

It turned out that one of the two "long-term friends" was pregnant and didn't tell my ex until she ran into her at about 7.5 months pregnant.  My ex couldn't understand how such a "close friend" could have failed to tell her this.  She had seen this friend, who lives nearby, once in the past year.  

Goes without saying that a pwBPD's concept of "friendship" is different than many of ours.  

[enlighten me]

The whole friendship thing rings true for my ex. Her only long term friend (8 years) is constantly recycled. She has a number of facebook friends who she hardly ever has contact with. Theres are a couple of male friends from her past who she keeps in touch with on facebook. One is her puppy dog, An ex who hangs on her every word. I feel sorry for this guy as I thought he was infatuated with her and she was just being nice but I now realise he is her pick me up. Her place to turn and get a fix of how wonderful she is. She will never do anything with him as she would risk losing her fix.

She had another friend when we met but they don't speak anymore and my ex says that it is because she didn't get the womans daughter a birthday present. I think its more likely that she said something the ex didn't like so was painted black. She has told all the other mums at school how nasty she is and has said that she said nasty things about some mums.

Its also funny that my ex wife who I believe was histrionic also had a lack of friends and never kept any. The ones she did she made sure were not a threat to her in the looks department.

[Changingman]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Arminius - yes mine very occasionally let her face slip in public, usually when she was very drunk. Always woke up the next day and claimed to remember nothing of it. So it was swept under the carpet, it never happened... . that revving the engine story is frightening though. It's crazy what they will do to play the victim role

Octoberfest - I'm totally with you on the friendship thing. Sadly I fell into that trap and stayed there for about two years. Which was basically two years playing the boyfriend role without getting any of the good stuff of being in a relationship. With her it was the opposite. She had someone who adored her, would run round after her, to use as she saw fit, without the responsibility of having to give anything back

Awakenedone - it's only now that I'm coming to terms with the full extent of the lies. It's a very elaborate web. I agree with you though. They are welcome to her.

Theo41 - yeah just like you I used to believe it was all my fault. I was so infatuated, had her on so high a pedestal that I just believed all the bull "no one has ever annoyed me as much as you do", " it's your fault I always feel like this" , "I'm completely out of your league" "your the stupidest person I've ever known". And I just bought it all and grovelled for forgiveness. Then one night when drunk she let it slip that her ex boyfriend (who she had demonised for allegedly cheating on her) had claimed that she was possibly bipolar. With that the curtain fell, I knew my gut instinct was right and that it wasn't all my fault... .

Yes, when sober a cultivated act of kindness, concern, loveliness, dog lover, kind stepmother/friend to my kids but drunk /drugs would turn into the full HPD/BPD Demon. I've since realised she was always pushing and punishing, just to what degree she was unchained and crafty, when drunk she just did the same more clumsily. Of course she couldn't remember the next day. Always joked about being a bit 'mad', at the end fully sober the pathological liar, vengefull, dark, hatefull, shaming, raging creature was revealed. I realised she loved to insult me without my knowledge, when sober.

I think this is the real person, she has strangled any honest, authentic soul long ago.

No friends, her extended family avoids her and her parents, Co-workers are either shallow RSs or they are still new and don't get it yet, ex Boyfriends went no contact... I'd never heard of this before.

She convinced me that it was everyone else who had a problem, when I realised it was the reverse, it was astonishing.

wow!

Literally 'acting' like a human being.

It's hard not to think of the nature of evil when thinking about these people and I'm not religious.

1 Lust

2 Gluttony

3 Greed

4 Sloth

5 Wrath

6 Envy

7 Pride

[Arminius]

How about this then:

Just before last Christmas, 2 months in to the 4 months that she was pretending she wanted to fix us ( I see now this was her being unable to be alone... . my replacement not yet found) she was back in our house, telling me she wanted to fix us but needed a little time, danced with me in the house, kissed and held me.

I found out later that on huh at same evening, she was messaging one of her contacts, a female that was not really her friend, but a friend of her sister, and telling that person that I had 'tricked me in to coming over, said he wouldn't be here and that I could spend the weekend alone in the house.'

Utter, utter crap. She'd come over, know long I was there, to spend the weekend 'working on us'.

Sympathy seeking attention junky.

[brokenbutalive]

How about this then:

Just before last Christmas, 2 months in to the 4 months that she was pretending she wanted to fix us ( I see now this was her being unable to be alone... . my replacement not yet found) she was back in our house, telling me she wanted to fix us but needed a little time, danced with me in the house, kissed and held me.

I found out later that on huh at same evening, she was messaging one of her contacts, a female that was not really her friend, but a friend of her sister, and telling that person that I had 'tricked me in to coming over, said he wouldn't be here and that I could spend the weekend alone in the house.'

Utter, utter crap. She'd come over, know long I was there, to spend the weekend 'working on us'.

Sympathy seeking attention junky.

Sadly mate, nothing shocks me anymore. I try to laugh at the many memories of my ex's bizarre behaviour. It's the only way I can deal with it

[charred]

My exBPDgf was bummed that a friend of hers no longer spoke to her... . I asked 'What did you do to her?'... . she was defensive then told me how ridiculous the friend was. The gal was in her 40's and started dating a younger guy (late 20's)... and my exBPDgf didn't approve, so she told her so. The friend didn't care or react. So she told her how terribly inappropriate it was.

When they were in a place with lots of mutual friends she announced she didn't want to sit next to the pedophile. The gal reacted and refused to speak to her again... and my exBPDgf... . felt the gal was in the wrong, after all she was dating a much younger guy. That was public... she would privately tell the gal she was sorry,

Losing my exBPDgf... was like losing cancer or a bad migraine.

[Blimblam]

when I think back my exuBPDgf would act different whoever she was around.  It really would annoy me.

It would annoy me because I thought she had such a weak character.  I thought it was something she would grow out of... . I guess not.

Her Mom was a Narc tweeker now an alchoholic. She is loud and boisterous.  So my ex has a habbit of becoming extremely subservient and forgiving of Gfs of hers, those friends tend to annoy me because they are smug b___es. 

I think I was the first guy with any kind of "deep" set of ethics.  She had a difficult time mirroring me because it was just over her head.  She mirrored my humour and she even mirrored an injury I had at the time.  So strange.