need to understand an important thing

[antjs]

so i have been through the posts of 2010. A reply is appreciated from someone who really and fully understands this part of psychology.


why do rescuers\white knights\enablers\codependents did not process the abandonment depression when they were children ? how did this skip of part of psychological development did make them come to be rescuers\white knights\enablers ? is this the whole work needed (to process the abandonment depression caused by the BPD break up) and everything then will be fine ?

[Blimblam]

I can only speak for myself. It is because that is when I was formed by my environement originally. It is because I had to develop coping mechanisms to deal with my reality.  A large part of my coping was to escape into fantasy.  

I embraced the abandonment depression and I had a breakthrough of the kind 2010 talks about where the extreme anxiety ptsd in y chest broke though and I felt it connect to my foo issues and who she reminded me of.  It was perhaps the most intense experience of my life.  But this is only the beginning of a long journey ahead.

for me the feeling in the chest does not go away It only changes.  There are a lot of emotions in that feeling that need to be processed and it is uncomfortable to experience.

[Changingman]

What do we think is normal? What we experience everyday.

Yes to FOO issues, why is this pain so familiar, why didn't I notice, why didn't I run early or even think this was possible, why is what I thought was love romance just cartoonish nonsense? Why was I so easily manipulated and lied to?

What are these wounds? Why are they so sore, Where did they come from?

[Blimblam]

for me once I had kind of put all the pieces together it was making myself vulnerable and digging into my shame that led to the breakthrough.  That and validation for my experience and a ton of venting on here.

A lot of people are recommending books by Brene Brown those my help you a lot. 

I think post breakthrough that mindfullnes and other Buddhist practices are the path I will take.

[Blimblam]

as other members on here often say lean into the pain. do not run from it but do not cling to it.  There is a post by sea_of_wound that describes the experience best.

[LoveNotWar]

Antony_James, I think the work is different for all of us. I am a "saver" and work in a helping profession. I felt a huge sense of failure at not being able to save my exBPD hubby and a sense of shame at being "fooled" by him and drawn into a dysfunctional relationship.

But I really had a very good childhood and, except for my time w/BPD ex I never suffered from depression or co-dependency. I don't know why I'm a "saver" but I have made a very good living by using this skill. I guess it's about balancing and not allowing anyone to disrespect me ever again. I like to think I can learn and grow from this experience.

[LettingGo14]

I can only speak for myself. It is because that is when I was formed by my environement originally. It is because I had to develop coping mechanisms to deal with my reality.  A large part of my coping was to escape into fantasy.  

I embraced the abandonment depression and I had a breakthrough of the kind 2010 talks about where the extreme anxiety ptsd in y chest broke though and I felt it connect to my foo issues and who she reminded me of.  It was perhaps the most intense experience of my life.  But this is only the beginning of a long journey ahead.

for me the feeling in the chest does not go away It only changes.  There are a lot of emotions in that feeling that need to be processed and it is uncomfortable to experience.

This really spoke to me, BB.   I have that feeling my chest (sometimes it feels like a low grade fever, and sometimes a raging storm).  But it does change, and it is uncomfortable.  Thanks for writing about your experience.  It resonated with me.

[antjs]

What do we think is normal? What we experience everyday.

Yes to FOO issues, why is this pain so familiar, why didn't I notice, why didn't I run early or even think this was possible, why is what I thought was love romance just cartoonish nonsense? Why was I so easily manipulated and lied to?

What are these wounds? Why are they so sore, Where did they come from?

what i think is normal (before the experience) is a loving relationship built on mutual respect and recognition. i did not have the best childhood ever but i was not raised up in an abusive community. i was taught to stand for myself.

the pain is not familiar yet it was the worst pain i have felt in my life and thats why i am trying to understand the reason behind it. i did notice there is something wrong. second date, i told her i am gonna "fix" you but after the idealization phase has ended i quit her during the third crazy making incident. i quit after 6 days of devaluation. i ran and it was possible and initially i am the one who broke up with her.

my idea about love definitely is more mature now. yes i lived a fantasy but reality test was always used by me and thats why i left very soon and didnt take her crazy making and infidelity.

I am open minded about any idea and want to explore it so that i would know what is going on with me. i am honest too. yes i did like the idea of saving her. yes i knew there were a lot of things wrong with her. yes i was in a one up step than her. but the abuse was recognized by me. the abuse was not tolerated or familiarized by me.

[antjs]

Antony_James, I think the work is different for all of us. I am a "saver" and work in a helping profession. I felt a huge sense of failure at not being able to save my exBPD hubby and a sense of shame at being "fooled" by him and drawn into a dysfunctional relationship.

But I really had a very good childhood and, except for my time w/BPD ex I never suffered from depression or co-dependency. I don't know why I'm a "saver" but I have made a very good living by using this skill. I guess it's about balancing and not allowing anyone to disrespect me ever again. I like to think I can learn and grow from this experience.

i am not co-dependent but i have low self esteem i am aware of that. the break up depression almost killed me. it was the most intense negative experience of my whole life and thats why i am trying to understand how could a 6 week old r\s give me that intense depression.

yes in the end and in simple words, i am never gonna take it fast with any girl and i am never gonna be that patient with someone. i will always watch the  actions rather than listen to the words. no disrespect will be tolerated.

[Changingman]

Antony_James, I think the work is different for all of us. I am a "saver" and work in a helping profession. I felt a huge sense of failure at not being able to save my exBPD hubby and a sense of shame at being "fooled" by him and drawn into a dysfunctional relationship.

But I really had a very good childhood and, except for my time w/BPD ex I never suffered from depression or co-dependency. I don't know why I'm a "saver" but I have made a very good living by using this skill. I guess it's about balancing and not allowing anyone to disrespect me ever again. I like to think I can learn and grow from this experience.

i am not co-dependent but i have low self esteem i am aware of that. the break up depression almost killed me. it was the most intense negative experience of my whole life and thats why i am trying to understand how could a 6 week old r\s give me that intense depression.

yes in the end and in simple words, i am never gonna take it fast with any girl and i am never gonna be that patient with someone. i will always watch the  actions rather than listen to the words. no disrespect will be tolerated.

Amen Brother.

[antjs]

  in simple words. can that intense depression that i have felt be because of losing someone whose reality turned out to be another person ? was i just depressed to lose someone whom i thought was different ? was i shocked because she showed me the real her which was totally the opposite of what i thought about her and then she abruptly left ? or was it a pain that belongs to the childhood ? could it happen that the pain is intense but does not belong to the childhood ?

[antjs]

any chance that i might be normal and was just self-pitied over the abuse ? i can not find anything wrong with my childhood. yes i was depressed before her. i was diagnosed with quarter life crisis due to unemployment, physically sick dad and other bad life circumstances and thats why i rushed things with her ( i grasped the only "good" thing happening to me at that life phase). this dilemma is really killing me. i can not find anything wrong with my childhood. my therapist sees that my childhood was normal. my childhood friends when i talked to them, see that i was normal as a child and said that they would be tricked into the same dance with her and that i was responsive enough to run for my own good when i started to see the other face of her. i just can not figure out why i mourned that much over someone that was not good to me ? i was not trying to help her after the break up but i do really identify with 2010's words when he says "you want control back over your object. you want the mirror back. you want to fix her to be valued. you want to be needed to feel good about yourself and your value"

[Ihope2]

My siblings and I were emotionally neglected from a young age.  We were just suddenly in the way when our parents divorced, and when my mother remarried. 

I think my mother and her FOO issues were passed on to my siblings and me. And my father, although not as present in our lives all the time, also had a lot of FOO baggage.

So the coming together of two adult children who never worked on their recovery ( my parents), resulted in more of us (my siblings and I) that had childhood abandonement issues.

I think sometimes it is an intergenerational thing, especially maybe if you come from a culture where there has been a lot of conflict, wars, tensions, and emotional repression, and a particularly harsh view towards raising children.

This dynamic followed me all my life, because my life has been pretty much up and down in terms of moving countries and losing family members, etc.

Then a stepfather with suspected NPD also was in the mix during my formative late childhood/teenage years. 

Until the age of 44, I have been emotionally enmeshed with my mother due to various reasons.  I have always worried about her.  She is quite irresponsible in her way, and her lifestyle choices have affected her children greatly.  To the extent that my brother cut off all contact with her and my sister and me about 15 years ago.

I have always tried to be there for my mother in her times of need. I was always seen as being the "reliable, stable one" in the family, the "go-to" person.  I think my mother is to this day, at 70years of age, still very ignorant of anything ever having been wrong in our family and our upbringing. I am sure she will say that she did everything for us.

I know I have been carrying around a lot of unresolved childhood pain with me.  I am the "Lonely Child".  It took this intense 11 month marriage to a man with BPD to bring out my pain to the surface.  When I think of how I was towards him, it was like I was trying to rescue my mother all over again.  There are a lot of similarities between how I once felt that I had abandoned my mother and that she was going to suffer terribly, and how I felt with my exBPDh when I started realising that I cannot do this relationship any more.  I felt like I was abandoning him.

So that has been my dynamic. 

And looking at how lovingly my mother always acted towards us her children on the surface of it, you would not have thought anything was wrong with the family we were. And my father always made sure to be financially very responsible for his children and he helped us to get a good education and start in life.

But both of them neglected us emotionally, they were unable to attend to us emotionally. I think Childhood Emotional Neglect is a big, unseen factor, that not even the people who experienced it will acknowledge.  I always used to say that my childhood was very disrupted and chaotic, but at least I was not physically abused!  But, I was not emotionally nurtured, and that is also a big factor in how secure and adjusted we end up being as adults. It has affected my whole adult life up to now!  It has handicapped me in forming healthy relationships. I have been living a sad and lonely life because of it.

[charred]

Early on... I was sure I was normal and unscathed by my FOO.

Was hard to accept that me... a normal person, had fallen for a normal person that dumped me so hard... .except she wasn't normal, she was BPD... diagnosed and with every  . So it was hard to accept that my dream girl... was a nightmare. But at least I wasn't affected by my FOO... though my father was clearly malignant NPD... and I have been estranged from him for a dozen years. Wondered why I wasn't like most people in falling for someone like my mother... she was quiet, easy going... a bit passive-aggressive, but certainly not the Jodi Arias type that my exBPDgf was... .wondered what the attraction with my NPD dad could have been. Then read about waif BPD... and lots of things made sense. Sure was lucky to be unscathed growing up with a BPD mom and NPD dad... .and no wonder I tend to keep people at a bit of a distance.

When things ended with my pwBPD... I saw a T, worked on mindfulness and had my horrible stress drop down to nothing, and finally felt relaxed for first time in decades.

Took some psych tests and found out I was INTJ, and that I was not NPD, and didn't match profile for BPD either... so only real mystery was how I was the exception to the truism that relationships like water, reach their own level. (Or the amount of baggage of both tends to match.) I dismissed the high schizoid results as irrelevant... because I was not schizophrenic and out of touch with reality in any way except for making bad r/s choices and being a bit skittish/self conscious at times.

But... no one comes out of a disordered family unscathed... and as my various defenses fell away in T... I found I was pretty filleted by my upbringing, and that the hole where my confident inner strength should be, was empty from empty, self centered, non-validating parenting. Have avoidant/anxious/schizoid traits... which are much more palatable to call shyness or introversion... but are pervasive enough to be SPD at times. And that makes that wondering about how I... .a normal person, could be so matched up with the BPD gal... well... that is how it worked out for me. But YMMV.

[antjs]

so what comes next after identifying the foo issues ?

[happylogist]

I thought a lot about these questions... .also about our moral right to blame our parents for being emotionally distant or not always there. But I always ask myself: Would I be a better parent? Would I raise a perfectly happy child with no FOO issues? I am afraid that I can't guarantee anything. My parents even though had their problems never intentionally did any harm to me or my siblings... . For me the attachment theory is not a cure - I do not have any guarantees that I will not be a losing rescuer in my relationships now that I grieved over my childhood. I know (and it was difficult to realize) that my dad was not emotionally present, not affectionate as much towards me as to my sister and has a bit of NPD traits. I know that ex met many more women and some saw   and acted on that because being more intuitive, having a better self-esteem and being realistic than other women who decided to stay, be idealized and try to rescue.  

The attachment theory helped me to know myself better - I am watching myself because I know that it is easy for me to redefine my boundaries and many more other problems. But the attachment theory with its focus on FOO is only part of the reason... .there is also the environment, adolescent years and many other factors that shaped and contributed to my flaws

[charred]

so what comes next after identifying the foo issues ?

If you know you have issues... most the time seeing a T is the way to go. Deep seated FOO issues are really tough to do a diy fix on. You can learn about mindfulness and do exercises for it... that can really reduce your stress and ruminating. I think that as you work past one issue you find another and another for a while, things that were pushed aside, avoided or repressed over the years. I have felt numb in many ways for years... and the BPD r/s... brought back tons of feelings. Made me realize how out of touch with myself I was.

I am a worrier by nature ... and worried about having any kind of mental health treatment fallout affect employment or insurance... so I pay cash and arrange things with my T in person, and it isn't much... about $70 an hr, every other week... .not free, but its made a giant difference in my life. Realizing why I am like I am, and getting better at accepting myself, living with much lower stress... .and past pining and ruminating over my toxic BPD r/s.  Considering the r/s cost me my family(divorce)... 1/2 of all my stuff (divorce)... a 100k+ a year job,... getting some help is a bargain, wish I had done it 28 yrs ago when she dumped me the first time and I bottomed out... and thought it was all my fault.

Good luck... it gets better the more time apart from the r/s... and as you learn to finally accept reality ... .for me my "good childhood"... was part of the delusion of it all... and I just want to live and feel life as it is, not be part of a false ego driven r/s with a crazy person... just live and have friends and experience it as it happens.

[antjs]

But the attachment theory with its focus on FOO is only part of the reason... .there is also the environment, adolescent years and many other factors that shaped and contributed to my flaws

i really looked at my parents objectively as if i am not their child. they are good parents. they did not harm me. they did not abuse me. very few times i got the silent treatment over some incidents but i do not think that these have affected me that much.

looking to my life for the last 3-4 years, i can totally relate to issues that have been happening to me (aka what you call environment). i was diagnosed with phase life crisis. I had a lot of bad issues that were out of my hands. i got depressed over the fact that i could not control them. i was self eating my confidence. i now acknowledge that part of my depression after my ex left me was that i want to control her to give me the mirroring back (subconsciously but i did realize it !). my therapist assured me that i am within the normal and that i just have phase life crisis and ptsd that would take its time and go away. should i totally trust his words ? i brought up codependency\rescuing\enabling\childhood traumas but he denied it all.

[charred]

I thought a lot about these questions... .also about our moral right to blame our parents for being emotionally distant or not always there. But I always ask myself: Would I be a better parent? Would I raise a perfectly happy child with no FOO issues? I am afraid that I can't guarantee anything. My parents even though had their problems never intentionally did any harm to me or my siblings... . For me the attachment theory is not a cure - I do not have any guarantees that I will not be a losing rescuer in my relationships now that I grieved over my childhood. I know (and it was difficult to realize) that my dad was not emotionally present, not affectionate as much towards me as to my sister and has a bit of NPD traits. I know that ex met many more women and some saw   and acted on that because being more intuitive, having a better self-esteem and being realistic than other women who decided to stay, be idealized and try to rescue.  

The attachment theory helped me to know myself better - I am watching myself because I know that it is easy for me to redefine my boundaries and many more other problems. But the attachment theory with its focus on FOO is only part of the reason... .there is also the environment, adolescent years and many other factors that shaped and contributed to my flaws

I wouldn't BLAME my parents... I accept that they were not well equipped to be good parents.

My mother's mother died when she was 5 yrs old, giving birth to one of her younger siblings, her father was drafted in to WW2... leaving her at 5... abandoned and dropped on her ultra-strict grandparents. The losses and strictness, led her to be waif BPD. How much can I blame her for getting to be how she is? She is traumatized being around young kids (like kids the ages her siblings were when she largely raised them)... her way of dealing with kids... treat them as objects... don't connect deeply. For me that meant a big lack of validation and a heap of anxiety that was hard to identify where it came from.

My father's father was also drafted in to WW2... when he was 3. He was the 4th attempt to have a kid for his older parents... rest ended in miscarriages. His mother (my grandmother) was nicest woman I have ever known, was youngest from a family with 10 kids... and was thrilled to have a kid. She lost her house during WW2, moved in with relatives and my dad was about 7 by the time his very hardened father showed back up... and by then, my father was spoiled, self centered, and my grandfather did his best to whip him in to shape. The result was a malignant woman hating self centered NPD guy. He became a doctor... and to his mother could do no wrong, to his father... who did see him very accurately... he was a total screwup.  My father was easier to be around than my mom, and most of his nastiness was aimed at other people as he didn't see me as a threat, rather a rescuer, admirer, source of N supply... .for a long time. When I bought a nicer car than he had, next day he bought a top of the line Mercedes. He did his best to breakup my r/s with the woman I was married to for 20+ yrs... and when we had a kid... he did everything possible to cause a miscarriage... falling on her, took her to a place around a 110 degrees and wouldn't let her leave, etc... even as an adult when I had a nice car... he keyed it. When my grandmother (his loving but blind to his faults mother)... became a burden to him, he found a way to legally kill her... at the funeral (which the rest of our family had to find out about by calling funeral homes)... he laughed the sickest laugh I have ever seen... standing over her.

So... do I blame my dad... yes absolutely, he is the spineless, wimpy real evil that I didn't need in my life. Since my grandma's death, rest of my family and I, have had nothing to do with him... over a dozen years now.

I understand why my folks are like they are, and that they were both poorly equipped to be parents... both are disordered, most likely the r/s between them was just like the ones on these boards... .they divorced when I was about 12.

Seeing a T, has helped to lose a lot of the idealizing of my parents and childhood and accept it for what it was... a mix of good and bad times, and to get that they are people just like you and I.

Do we have a moral right to blame them? Well... they gave us life and they likely gave us issues. I can accept that. Forgiving them is harder than blaming them (dad in particular in my case)... and the hardest thing of all... forgiving ourselves for all the blame and bad stuff we absorbed because no one else was being responsible for themselves... .that is the tough one.

[antjs]

i can not diagnose all the people around me. it does not feel right. i hardly accept that my ex is BPD. sometimes i question this diagnosis until now (by me or by therapist who has never seen her). how can i diagnose my parents ? how can you do it ? i dont think thats right. yes maybe you can say that your dad was neglecting you emotionally. your mother was hard on you but supplying diagnosis just does not feel right.


life can not be perfect and families can not be perfect then. some people get out from not the best family as very good and decent people while others come out as disordered. although disordered people does not have the choice to get the disorder yet i feel that they should be able to see the patterns and seek help. people who came out of "dysfunctional" families with issues (lets say us non) still knows the right from wrong. what i want to say life is not perfect but it deals us some cards and it is up to us how to play. I am really done with diagnosing. my head is spinning from the contradictory info i am reading on this website as everyone speaks from different experience with ex that has a different co-morbid mental illness. i do not have to study psychology to get my life in order. i want to make my life simple. i know the right from wrong. i learned a lot from this relationship about me, my relationships and my friendships. i will look forward to live a better life with every simple way of this sentence meaning. I am not gonna study psychology and over analyze people. my pain is over after the break up. i mourned enough. i felt the pain and despair enough. now i feel good. why would i over think and complicate life. overthinking might just create a problem that was not there in the first place.

[Blimblam]

to quote arrested development, In reference to parenting.

[Parent] "well its not like this kind of thing comes with a set of instructions"

[Narrator] "Actually there was. In fact, there is an entire section dedicated to it in the bookstore."

I don't blame my parents the same way I don't blame my uBPDexgf for not being there for me when I needed her most and instead cheating on me.  which is to say I do blame them but they are not totally at fault. They made no effort to heal their trauma and stop being a toxic destructive force in the lives of the people that truly love and care about them.  They make me feel I am the problem and this activates my maladaptive deep seated set of beliefs programmed into me by their arrogance and neglect of nurturing me.

. Going to these people for understanding and closure is not possible they are too deep in their denial.

[charred]

to quote arrested development, In reference to parenting.

[Parent] "well its not like this kind of thing comes with a set of instructions"

[Narrator] "Actually there was. In fact, there is an entire section dedicated to it in the bookstore."

I don't blame my parents the same way I don't blame my uBPDexgf for not being there for me when I needed her most and instead cheating on me.  which is to say I do blame them but they are not totally at fault. They made no effort to heal their trauma and stop being a toxic destructive force in the lives of the people that truly love and care about them.  They make me feel I am the problem and this activates my maladaptive deep seated set of beliefs programmed into me by their arrogance and neglect of nurturing me.

. Going to these people for understanding and closure is not possible they are too deep in their denial.

Well put!

Love Arrested Development... .its almost as good as Parks and Rec. 

[Ihope2]

i can not diagnose all the people around me. it does not feel right. i hardly accept that my ex is BPD. sometimes i question this diagnosis until now (by me or by therapist who has never seen her). how can i diagnose my parents ? how can you do it ? i dont think thats right. yes maybe you can say that your dad was neglecting you emotionally. your mother was hard on you but supplying diagnosis just does not feel right.


life can not be perfect and families can not be perfect then. some people get out from not the best family as very good and decent people while others come out as disordered. although disordered people does not have the choice to get the disorder yet i feel that they should be able to see the patterns and seek help. people who came out of "dysfunctional" families with issues (lets say us non) still knows the right from wrong. what i want to say life is not perfect but it deals us some cards and it is up to us how to play. I am really done with diagnosing. my head is spinning from the contradictory info i am reading on this website as everyone speaks from different experience with ex that has a different co-morbid mental illness. i do not have to study psychology to get my life in order. i want to make my life simple. i know the right from wrong. i learned a lot from this relationship about me, my relationships and my friendships. i will look forward to live a better life with every simple way of this sentence meaning. I am not gonna study psychology and over analyze people. my pain is over after the break up. i mourned enough. i felt the pain and despair enough. now i feel good. why would i over think and complicate life. overthinking might just create a problem that was not there in the first place.

Do you feel like you are betraying loyalty if you look at your family critically?  It does not mean that you don't love them.  But there is nothing wrong in recognising that our parents failed us in some way, if this is the case.  In fact, coming out of denial is very healing for me, I have found.  But, if there were no big FOO issues for you, then that is wonderful.

[antjs]

i can not diagnose all the people around me. it does not feel right. i hardly accept that my ex is BPD. sometimes i question this diagnosis until now (by me or by therapist who has never seen her). how can i diagnose my parents ? how can you do it ? i dont think thats right. yes maybe you can say that your dad was neglecting you emotionally. your mother was hard on you but supplying diagnosis just does not feel right.


life can not be perfect and families can not be perfect then. some people get out from not the best family as very good and decent people while others come out as disordered. although disordered people does not have the choice to get the disorder yet i feel that they should be able to see the patterns and seek help. people who came out of "dysfunctional" families with issues (lets say us non) still knows the right from wrong. what i want to say life is not perfect but it deals us some cards and it is up to us how to play. I am really done with diagnosing. my head is spinning from the contradictory info i am reading on this website as everyone speaks from different experience with ex that has a different co-morbid mental illness. i do not have to study psychology to get my life in order. i want to make my life simple. i know the right from wrong. i learned a lot from this relationship about me, my relationships and my friendships. i will look forward to live a better life with every simple way of this sentence meaning. I am not gonna study psychology and over analyze people. my pain is over after the break up. i mourned enough. i felt the pain and despair enough. now i feel good. why would i over think and complicate life. overthinking might just create a problem that was not there in the first place.

Do you feel like you are betraying loyalty if you look at your family critically?  It does not mean that you don't love them.  But there is nothing wrong in recognising that our parents failed us in some way, if this is the case.  In fact, coming out of denial is very healing for me, I have found.  But, if there were no big FOO issues for you, then that is wonderful.

Objectively and honestly there was no significant foo issues of mine. By the help of my therapist and a childhood best friend who knows me since i was 8 its not my childhood. Its my adulthood. Its aftef graduating. I am professionally diagnosed with quarter life crisis which is not a big issue since it affects two thirds of people of 22-29 of age. I acknowledge the baggage of issues i brought to the table of the r/s. Its mostly things out of my hand. I acknowledge i have control issues. I want to control what is out of my control. A recent example is my ex. I wanted to control her back to the relationship to mirror me. I want the mirror back. But the mirror reflects my false self. I am getting rid of my false self. I am hugging my true self as a partner hugs his/her partner in an airport after a long time travel. If i have to fix anyone that would be my true self. I am now better at learning to distinguish between what is within my control and what is out of it. I fight the urge or anxiety to control everything. I have to be ok and happy with bad things happening to me out of my control. Its not what happens to us in life. It is how we react to it. Either accept it, modify it or discard it. I have to find peace with myself. I have to stop blaming myself for failing to control events' outcomes that are out of my hands

[Mutt]

The false self is a fragmented version of ourselves. Embracing and loving ourselves is validating our inner child and that false self stems from an invalidating, malnourished environment from childhood is the context that I understood. Parenting ourselves, we need to love ourselves first instead of looking for it in someone else in a r/s. I suffered self esteem issues from my parents and I felt shame and guilt from my FOO.

Anthony_James, if you didn't have FOO issues and it's the first time that i heard of a quarter life crisis, I went through such a crisis in the 90's. I learned something new today from you and thank you for sharing. But I was 22 maybe 23? I heard of it referred to as a mid life crisis from a P and I didn't believe it because I was so young Maybe I didn't hear correctly, but a quarter life crisis though makes sense and i can relate to that. Maybe they didn't have a proper term for it back then. It felt like the verge of a nervous breakdown and very difficult as if I didn't know what was going on internally, it was very tough. Is that how a quarter life crisis felt for you?

Where can your control come from if your FOO is good? I know with my ex I was controlling but with my P she said it was due to enmeshment and co-dependency, do you explore this with your T?

Are you struggling through your quarter life crisis or feeling a little better?

[antjs]

The false self is a fragmented version of ourselves. Embracing and loving ourselves is validating our inner child and that false self stems from an invalidating, malnourished environment from childhood?  Parenting ourselves, we need to love ourselves first instead of looking for it in someone else in a r/s. I suffered self esteem issues from my parents and I felt shame and guilt from my FOO.

Anthony_James, if you didn't have FOO issues and it's the first time that i heard of a quarter life crisis, I went through such a crisis in the 90's. I learned something new today from you and thank you. But I was 22 maybe 23? I heard of it referred to as a mid life crisis and didn't believe it because I was so young. A quarter life crisis though makes sense and i can relate to that. Maybe they didn't have a proper term for it then? It felt like the verge of a nervous breakdown. Is that how a quarter life crisis felt for you? Where can your control come from if your FOO is good? I know with my ex I was controlling but with my P she said it was due to enmeshment and co-dependency, do you explore this with your T?

Mutt it always makes me happy to see a reply from you and Lettinggo14. Seeing a reply from you makes me feel that i am about to discover something new 

I think the false self can start to be there during any period of our lives as not only do our parents shape our upbringing but also our environment ? my environment [circumstances] were so bad for me for the last couple of years. I know that i did not love myself enough before the BPD experience. i know that my self confidence is really bad since i can remember. i did not feel shame or guilt but i always felt inadequate. i felt lower to other people. i did not always reach out new people as i always felt that they will not find anything interesting.

i think they did not have a proper term for quarter life crisis back then and yes it feels live having a nervous breakdown but i used to numb my feelings for long since graduation. so the last period for me was processing BPD abandonment + quarter life crisis with all its feeling imagine that  I think my control issues started after graduation. when i found that i can't find a job (out of my hands since all my major colleagues can't too and my country was through a revolution), my dad got physically sick (out of my hands), my friends immigrated (out of my hands), i failed an important exam to migrate to Australia (partially out of my hands), i could not get my work visa to Dubai (out of my hands). i started wanting to control what i can not control basically including my ex's disorder. the BPD experience for me was a punch in the face, was a wake up call. i am realizing too much things and processing too much emotions. yes i have always felt inadequate, low self esteemed and non lovable cause i did not love myself. I can not remember anything wrong with my parents and i am not normalizing anything wrong they did to me. I addressed that to my therapist. I insisted that he would listen to information about my mother and father. my dad is very irresponsible for the last couple of years. i think he has a middle age crisis since he has got a heart attack 2 years ago. he might have not been for me emotionally when i was a kid i really don't know how much was enough. maybe i think the amount he gave me was enough but maybe it is not. The only thing that assures me now is that i am starting to love myself more and put myself first from now on.

[antjs]

a month ago, i was ruminating over the ex and could not find anyone to talk to. i went with my dad to a sports club to have lunch. he did not know about the whole ex experience in details but he knew basic info and that my therapist said she has a mental illness. he asked me "what is wrong with you ? you seem to be upset." i said "yes i am upset. i can not believe what did happen to me and how my ex turned to be. " his response was "forget about it. its useless to talk about it."

i understand that he wishes that i would "jump" to a better place. that his intentions are good. but look closely here. he did not acknowledge or validate my feelings. he has just suggested to me to ignore my feelings (which i think is not healthy). he wants me to suppress my feelings. maybe he used to do this to me since i was a kid and i did not notice or got used to it   it is emotional neglect   aha ! it was an indirect emotional abuse through neglect. am i right ?    

[Mutt]

I'm sorry about the quarter life crisis and the breakup. I think that you said that the r/s was around 6 weeks? I had self esteem issues and to a certain degree I still work on it, one way that I feel better is validating and loving the inner child inside. Sort of giving that child inside a hug. A quarter life crisis felt like an identity crisis to me. I'm not sure how it feels to you. It's a difficult thing to go through and a borderline r/s it adds to the pile. It's alot anthony_James if you look at it .

I started a short term romance with another woman while I was going through a crisis stage and I recall that romance helped me with coping with my crisis, that honeymoon will always be in my heart. I think about her from time to time. Having said that, she took my mind off of my crisis and gave me a joie de vivre. I was going through a depression, life was gray and dull and I can't seem to shake this feeling off? When is this going to go away? She added spark to my life (colors again!) I felt happy, but it was a short r/s and we broke up. Depression due to a quarter life crisis and that breakup from that romance was hard. I felt at the time that I may not meet someone else again and I want the grey sad feelings to go away, I want to feel normal again. Why is this happening now?

She wasn't borderline and didn't have that extra electricity to her like yours did. I really feel for you.

Did you meet her during your quarter life crisis or after? Did you or do you feel depressed from your quarter life crisis? I was on meds during that period. Did she give you that extra spark that made the grey feelings go away, that sort of everything is dull I feel numb feeling?

Depression is really really  hard. I never want to feel lifeless like that again, it's one of my worse fears of having to feel like that again because of a breakup but it creates extra anxiety. I detest depression, looking at the sun, sky and everything has a grey filter over it. It's blah!

I'll get back to control if you don't mind? This is your thread after all. If I'm off-base my apologies, but I went through a quarter life crisis and I'm sharing my experience and you triggered a period that I'd forgotten about.

[antjs]

She wasn't borderline and didn't have that extra electricity to her like yours did. I feel for you.

Did you meet her during your quarter life crisis or after? Did you or do you feel depressed from your quarter life crisis? I was on meds during that period. Did she give you that extra spark that made the grey feelings go away, that sort of everything is dull I feel numb feeling?

Depression is really really  hard. I never want to feel lifeless like that again, it's one of my worse fears if having to feel like that again because of a breakup.

I'll get back to control if you don't mind? This is your thread after all.

i was not aware that i have a quarter life crisis. i had sub clinical depression for years and i could not find out why and i did not want to (i masked my pain with alcohol and going out). i met her during my quarter life crisis and i thought she might give me that rush that you are talking about with your ex during this period for you and that she could take off my mind from the depression and thats why i discarded all these   and continued my fantasy. i thought she was going to save me as much as i was going to save her. it was very obvious that she was "broken" more than i was from the start. butshe turned out to be hitting the last nail in my coffin. i was alone with BPD break up + quarter life crisis (that until this point i know nothing about). i have been reading during this phase about codependency and foo but i could not comprehend at that phase of my healing. i went to a therapist. i felt like this was it. i cant take it anymore and i need professional help. i spent with him 6 sessions in 6 weeks. i was getting better. during the last 2 sessions, he said i was fine i was just going through quarter life crisis and ptsd and that i will be fine. he said that this experience did wake me up and its up to me whether to drive it in the right way (get back on the right track) or totally crash it. i brought up codependency\childhood traumas\ foo issues\ rescuing\enabling. he denied it all and said i am fine. he added that helping people is not a bad thing as long as i dont reach out to help people without their ask for assistance (which i dont do). he said that i had a within normal childhood and he liked that i was smart and responsive and strong enough not to tolerate her disorder. i was dismissed from therapy and i was way better than before. two weeks later, depression hit me so hard and it was worse than even the depression of the initial days after the break up (i got the work visa refusal to dubai during this time). you remember this phase when you understood from me that i was processing pain of unknown unresolved issue ? maybe i was processing the pain of the problems that i have numbed during the quarter life crisis.


one week ago i had a brief contact with my ex. i found a poem that she has written to me during the idealization phase. i unblocked her and sent her this poem with decent words wishing her well (last contact before this was 4 months ago: i shamed and called her bad names). i reblocked her and felt in a second that tonnes of pain was off. i was astonished. maybe i am not processing the pain of unresolved issues during the quarter life crisis period. maybe its just the bad closure that made me feel bad and now after this good closure i feel relieved ?

i have been feeling healed for a couple of days. i began introspection and now i am beginning to suspect some emotional childhood neglect (which my therapist denied). its all mixed up now. i dont feel bad but i feel puzzled. i am beginning to love and take care of myself. to be kind of myself. even if i have childhood emotional neglect and quarter life crisis. i will love and parent myself if i have to. but still i have to put my hands on the truth. do i have childhood emotional neglect ? did i want to save her because i am a rescuer or i was just returning the favor as i felt she is going to save me from this life crisis ? and yes get back to control. i acknowledge that life hit me so hard for the last couple of years and i am trying to control what i can not control. instead of drawing the boundary that this is out of my hands and that i can only control my reaction to what is happening, i am fighting it. you cant fight what is out of your hands. you either accept, edit or discard it.

all i know now that i am lost. did the misery start couple of years back with the quarter life crisis or did start very early with the childhood emotional neglect ? i really need help

[Mutt]

I can tell you from my personal experiences that I tried spinning too many plates at the same time with trying to fix myself. From my experience, work on one thing at a time, it's not a race. It's a process.

When it comes to control, we can't control life. It's acceptance and I use mindfulness and radical acceptance. The world is not perfect and we need to accept it as such. Instead of trying to control reality and adding disappointment, stress and anxiety because we can't control it, accept it for what is. Accept it as reality. Radical acceptance is not something that you simply use for dealing with trauma. You can use it every day. If your late for work and you're stuck at a red light and are getting worked up. You can accept it as reality and that you can't control the situation.

I took the kids out to McDonalds a couple of days ago and it was busy, I have 3 kids I'm single so it's a little extra work not having an extra set of adult hands. I saw a man really get worked up because the restaurant was busy, creating himself anxiety and stress. He could of radically accepted the fact that it' s busy, it's imperfect, reality. It was what it was. He's trying to control something that's not in his control, he is flowing against reality not with reality. Have you looked into radical acceptance? Do you see what I mean by control and accepting things for what they are to reduce stress and anxiety?

Did you consider looking into a second therapist for a second opinion? From my experience they're all different. I had to find a T this last time that suited me and I went through a couple of them.