Talking in circles

[peiper]

There is no way to have a real converation with this woman. She blows me out of the water. Anyone else have this problem?

[Mutt]

What do you mean pieper? Do you mean having circular arguments with her?

[letmeout]

BPD people do talk in circles, they call it Word Salad. Mine did this constantly and he usually didn't make any sense at all. It only serves to confuse the heck out of you.

[drv3006]

Oh definitely. Nothing is off limits. From what do you want for dinner or how was your day. And by the end of the day, you are lying in bed wondering why telling them you got the oil changed in the car turned into sleeping with the mechanic, to you were probably a tramp in high school and your mother should be proud for raising such a messed up daughter. And you are not sure which thing your more upset with.  And then goes back to what the F did you change the oil in the car for anyway!  All while you are stuck on being called a cheated a high school tramp whose mother raised you wrong. Sigh. My mind is whirling just typing it.

[peiper]

Mine had me so screwed up I thought it was all my fault. Still kinda do.

[drv3006]

Peiper,. I hear that.   He always told me I had no compassion. Honesty, after a while I didn't. I would literally go into the bathroom and drop to my knees praying to God to shut him up for just five minutes. !  I would have settled for three.   

[toomanytears]

Oh my this is so resonant for me too. Even though I'm ten months out of a 31 year marriage, my brain still works overtime - it's so used to trying to catch up with my BPDh's warped circular thinking.

BPD people do talk in circles, they call it Word Salad. Mine did this constantly and he usually didn't make any sense at all. It only serves to confuse the heck out of you.

[peiper]

I really want to cry but cant. I really loved her. I cant believe this. Its crazy. Im a good man, work, held her at night, always told her I loved her and how beautiful she is. Damn this hurts.

[letmeout]

I am very sorry that you are hurting peiper; it sucks that your partner was mentally ill and it may not feel like it right now, but you will work through this pain and feel stronger.

Congratulations on your freedom from abuse toomanytears. I was there for 35 years, and I know exactly how you feel and what you are talking about.

[peiper]

Mutt it was like talking to a box of rocks, a smart box of rocks. She could turn things around to where I would swear night was day.

[Aussie JJ]

peiper,

Mine was the same and then some, I would end up just agreeing instantly because I knew their was no point argueing.  I shutdown all of my emotions and am only now reconecting with them. 

I feel for the people that were in 20 or even 30 year long relationships with these people, I had 4 years and I am struggling.  Patricia Evans has a book on verbal abuse, it is good to understand these patterns so that you can name them and identify them.  Read up on verbal abuse on wikipedia or anywhere.  I know that understanding what is happening or what has happened helps me a great deal.  No I cant change it but I can learn from it and not allow it to happen again. 

[peiper]

I know, but it hurts brother, I actually bought into this crap and I still love. Which is stupid.

[Mutt]

Mutt it was like talking to a box of rocks, a smart box of rocks. She could turn things around to where I would swear night was day.

I completely understand what your saying.  If I told my ex the sky is blue and she thought it was red it's red to her. It's frustrating to no means and for a long time I thought she was stubborn with anger issues. For me it was insidious but it was worse after we got married. I was wrong with everything all of the time. I told her it's amazing how I can walk and breathe at the same time. I was constantly criticized, berated, emasculated and denigrated. Circular arguments that never ended because we were both triggered, I rammed horns with this woman and didn't take time outs. If I left it was call after call on my cell " when are you coming home Mutt?" Push / pull. I'm not sure about other members but the push / pull stuff was the worse for me. I detest thinking about that feeling. I don't want to go there again peiper, it felt emotionally exausting and draining ugh.

The believing night was day stuff came later on. It's the dissociations that got to me. She'd say something and come back later and change it ever so slightly and she'd throw up FOG and I was starting to buy into it. I had a conversation with my BIL I was burnt out and felt like I was losing it and asked him literally "am I going crazy?" I think I have PTSD trauma because I can't recall what the heck the context of our discussions were because she'd change it around so much. I felt so embarrassed in marriage counseling because i had no idea what she was talking about, i looked bad to the therapist and i felt bad too. Am i this insensitive and unattentive to this woman's needs that i can't fulfill or understand her? It's all a blur.

I know, but it hurts brother, I actually bought into this crap and I still love. Which is stupid.

It's not stupid peiper. I still had feelings for my ex when I joined the boards, I was still attached. You've got people here that understand because we went through this. It hurts and it's a deep hurt, get those feelings out and there's no judgment from us. I bought into my ex as well and I loved her despite of all of the emotional abuse. I'm actually quite smart but I was enmeshed with her and I was looking out for her needs and neglecting my own. Take the time to heal, figure out why you bought into it, detach, learn tools like boundaries, but don't beat yourself up over it peiper. You happened to have a r/s with a mentally ill woman with a side to her most people don't see. We ignored the   and fell down the rabbit hole. How were you supposed to know exactly what you were dealing with when you met her? I noticed some strange behaviors and ignored it but I never thought mental illness. There's a lot to learn from your experience   Take that away from it and grow. I kept hitting the snooze button and she was a wake-up call. It took her to figure myself out and what attracted me to toxic women in my life. For that I'm grateful because I'm growing.

Hang in there peiper  

[Caramel]

I'm so sorry for your pain Peiper.

I know what you mean. I have gone through the same thing. I personally tried to avoid any conversation about anything serious or unimportant cause I was worried that I would be misunderstood again.

I had learnt that the point of a conversation was not to achieve a mutual solution but a way to accuse or blame or criticize me and make me feel bad about myself. He accused me of things I had not done and then if I tried to defend or explain myself he raised his voice and interrupted me, said I was justifying my mistakes again. I always ended up confessing to things I had not done or meant or believed. That was the only way to end it. Sometimes even confessing that day was night was not enough. He said " You know what? We don't understand each other's language. You don't even understand what I'm saying. You don't understand what your problem is. That's it. I'm leaving."

And to make it worst he had his smear campaign that confirmed whatever he said. Which made me doubt myself even more.

It was crazy making. People used to say to me that you two love each other. Why don't you try to talk and solve your problems. Why don't you explain to him what you think. Nobody knew how useless it was to try to talk. Whenever we talked I always ended up feeling  confused, frustrated, stupid, guilty,angry and scared.

I know what it's like. A lot of us here do.

And yes. With everything said I still love and miss him more than I have ever loved or missed anyone in my life before.

But I don't feel that I'm crazy and I don't doubt myself anymore. I'm very sad but I am at peace. I was tired Peiper. I was tired of trying to hold this relationship together all the time. And no matter how hard I tried, it was never enough.

Hang in there dear.

You can do it.

We are all here for you. 

Sending you love.