Forcing someone into therapy...

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Is it possible? Ok I know it's not. I am just at the end if my rope here. This isn't so much a BPD issue as it is, just a vent about a crappy situation, that someone with BPD caused. My mom. She's completely depressed about our situation with my brother. It's a very long story so to save some time, I will give you the Cliff's notes. My dad passed away a few years back and through the years, I thought my mom would handle it a lot better than she did. She's a very strong woman. Sometimes I don't even think she knows how strong she really is. She went into a depression. Seeing her go through what she went through and is still going through, is almost harder than losing my dad. She is still here, but she's not the same person. She acts happy in front of others but I know she's not.

Fast forward to last year, about the time where my brother got engaged to his BPD wife. My mom finally seemed to be climbing out of her funk a little however it didn't last long. My brother's (then) fiancé started letting her true colors fly. Nothing we did was right regarding their engagement and wedding. She started throwing out demands and taking everything as an insult. She was mad about the dress I picked, mad that my mom wasn't planning her shower, mad that my mom couldn't attend her dress fitting (she invited her the day before and my mom already had plans), mad that I asked my brother where he got her engagement ring, everything was wrong. Mind you, at the time, we had only met her a handful of times. I think we still in the process of dealing with the fact that my brother was marrying a virtual stranger that he'd only been with for less than half a year.

When all was said and done, I ended up not being invited to the wedding and haven't spoken to my brother in 9 months. Well we spoke briefly once and that's when he told me about his suspicions that she's BPD.

Since then the drama just kept going on. I don't speak to my brother or his wife. My mom on the other hand has tried to make it work but it's like she gets slapped in the face everytime. His wife has been willing to look past some of the stuff that has gone on between her and my mom but she cannot get over anything that's happened with her and I. To be honest, my mom has had way more battles with her than I have. Far more. At this time, she has succeeded in completely isolating my brother. I am admittedly being stubborn. I want nothing to do with his wife. I've witnessed too much. Plus I'm extremely hurt but a lot of the things my brother did because of her. I have tried to have a realtionships with him but she won't allow it so I am acceptin that, my brother isn't going to be a part of my life as long as they're together. She thinks I owe her some type of apology for defending myself. It makes me sad but I focus on the things that make me happy, like my son and my husband. When I'm feeling down or thinking about it, I come on here and try to talk to people about it. I can easily accept my life for what it is. My mom on the other hand is having a very hard time accepting it. I guess because she's lonely and has nothing else to focus on. Her and my brother are her life. I know that's also unhealthy too. She just can't accept that she has lost her only son.

I have suggested everything I possibly can, to help my mom out of her funk but I am out of ideas. When I suggest therepy she either says she doesn't need it or can't afford it. I know there are many things adding to her depression. She's unhappy with herself and her appearance. She over eats to fill a void. She's upset about being a widow. Now losing my brother has sent her into an even deeper depression. She constantly sounds mopey and upset. I try to be there for her as much as I can but I also have my own family to worry about. I'm just tired of seeing her this way and if I could take all her pain I would. I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't know how to fix her situation. I can't. She has to take steps. I would never cut off contact with her. That's not an option. I think she's afraid of going to therapy. I think she's afraid of facing things that have upset her and I also feel like if she find that therapy doesn't work, she will have nothing left and will he stuck in this depression forever.

I don't know what I'm really asking here. Just hoping someone can relate. Maybe someone has been in a similar situation and could share their story. I just don't know what to do anymore. I wish I could blind fold her and hit her over the head with a pan and drag her to a therapists office!

[Youcantfoolme]

Is it possible? Ok I know it's not. I am just at the end if my rope here. This isn't so much a BPD issue as it is, just a vent about a crappy situation, that someone with BPD caused. My mom. She's completely depressed about our situation with my brother. It's a very long story so to save some time, I will give you the Cliff's notes. My dad passed away a few years back and through the years, I thought my mom would handle it a lot better than she did. She's a very strong woman. Sometimes I don't even think she knows how strong she really is. She went into a depression. Seeing her go through what she went through and is still going through, is almost harder than losing my dad. She is still here, but she's not the same person. She acts happy in front of others but I know she's not.

Fast forward to last year, about the time where my brother got engaged to his BPD wife. My mom finally seemed to be climbing out of her funk a little however it didn't last long. My brother's (then) fiancé started letting her true colors fly. Nothing we did was right regarding their engagement and wedding. She started throwing out demands and taking everything as an insult. She was mad about the dress I picked, mad that my mom wasn't planning her shower, mad that my mom couldn't attend her dress fitting (she invited her the day before and my mom already had plans), mad that I asked my brother where he got her engagement ring, everything was wrong. Mind you, at the time, we had only met her a handful of times. I think we still in the process of dealing with the fact that my brother was marrying a virtual stranger that he'd only been with for less than half a year.

When all was said and done, I ended up not being invited to the wedding and haven't spoken to my brother in 9 months. Well we spoke briefly once and that's when he told me about his suspicions that she's BPD.

Since then the drama just kept going on. I don't speak to my brother or his wife. My mom on the other hand has tried to make it work but it's like she gets slapped in the face everytime. His wife has been willing to look past some of the stuff that has gone on between her and my mom but she cannot get over anything that's happened with her and I. To be honest, my mom has had way more battles with her than I have. Far more. At this time, she has succeeded in completely isolating my brother. I am admittedly being stubborn. I want nothing to do with his wife. I've witnessed too much. Plus I'm extremely hurt but a lot of the things my brother did because of her. I have tried to have a realtionships with him but she won't allow it so I am acceptin that, my brother isn't going to be a part of my life as long as they're together. She thinks I owe her some type of apology for defending myself. It makes me sad but I focus on the things that make me happy, like my son and my husband. When I'm feeling down or thinking about it, I come on here and try to talk to people about it. I can easily accept my life for what it is. My mom on the other hand is having a very hard time accepting it. I guess because she's lonely and has nothing else to focus on. Her and my brother are her life. I know that's also unhealthy too. She just can't accept that she has lost her only son.

I have suggested everything I possibly can, to help my mom out of her funk but I am out of ideas. When I suggest therepy she either says she doesn't need it or can't afford it. I know there are many things adding to her depression. She's unhappy with herself and her appearance. She over eats to fill a void. She's upset about being a widow. Now losing my brother has sent her into an even deeper depression. She constantly sounds mopey and upset. I try to be there for her as much as I can but I also have my own family to worry about. I'm just tired of seeing her this way and if I could take all her pain I would. I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't know how to fix her situation. I can't. She has to take steps. I would never cut off contact with her. That's not an option. I think she's afraid of going to therapy. I think she's afraid of facing things that have upset her and I also feel like if she find that therapy doesn't work, she will have nothing left and will he stuck in this depression forever.

I don't know what I'm really asking here. Just hoping someone can relate. Maybe someone has been in a similar situation and could share their story. I just don't know what to do anymore. I wish I could blind fold her and hit her over the head with a pan and drag her to a therapists office!

[Linda Maria]

hi there - I had to reply though I don't think I can offer any solutions.  But I was touched by how much you obviously care for your Mum, and I do know how hard it is to love someone and not be able to help them.  I think you have done the right thing being NC with your BPDSIL - but it's very hard that you have, for now, effectively "lost" your brother.  I believe you will have him back sometime - he will eventually reach breaking point with his wife, and that's when you can be there for him big time.  You can't mess up your life, and your own family's well-being by trying to sort things out with him right now, because it will not help anyone, and will just bring all sorts of pain and stress into your life.  So you've made a lot of very good, very tough decisions already.  But Mums are different - and your Mum sounds very special.  Believe me - you are already helping her just by being there for her and supporting her in whatever way you can.  You can't fix people - my Mum was very lonely after my Dad passed away, and I always felt I should do more - but in the end you can only do so much.  I couldn't be my Dad and replace the life they had together, and she had to accept that her life was different now.  I don't know all your details, or how close you live to your Mum, but all I can say is - as I think you are already doing - keep her in your life as much as you can - see her as much as is practical - let her know you are there when she needs you, if she gets ill, or just needs to vent etc.  Keep her involved with your son as much as you can, encourage her to make new friends, join a dieting group etc. - I know that won't be easy.  And - you probably have done this already - share what you know about the BPD with her - and how it is important to set boundaries so she doesn't constantly have her feelings trampled by your SIL.  Somehow - she needs to understand that your brother doesn't love her any less - his life is probably hell right now - until he can see his situation clearly for what it is - there's nothing you can really do for him - so she needs to stop seeing the situation as an abandonment by your brother, and realise it's not about them rejecting her, or her being in the wrong - it's about a mental health condition that your SIL has, and the very nature of it is that there is nothing the rest of you can do.  The really tough thing is that you should be able to share your worries about your Mum with your brother, but you can't right now, and that is also very hard on you.  But you are clearly a very strong and wise person, and you did right to vent - that's what's great about this site.  You will be ok, and your Mum will be ok.  My sister - I believe - has BPD - only recently realised it - long story - and very similar to many people here.  She lived with my Mum the last 3 - 4 years of her life, and I know it wasn't easy for my Mum.  My sister had always been awkward - but now - when I think of how much more my Mum used to moan to me about her the last few years, and what I have had to endure since my Mum died - I feel bad as I suspect it was seriously unpleasant for my Mum at times, but as my sister had always been awkward, moody etc. I didn't realise that it was probably a bit more than the usual.  But even so - I doubt if there's anything I could have done, I'm just glad that as my Mum didn't live much more than an hour away, we saw her frequently - she came and stayed the weekend about every 4 weeks, and was very close to her grandchildren.  (My sister is single, no children).  I also spoke to her most days on the phone.  So at least she had some balance in her life.  Just do your best for your Mum, in whatever way you can, but keep your son and husband at the forefront of your priorities as well, and remember - you can only do your best.  You sound like a great person to me - stay strong - I wish you well.  JB

[Youcantfoolme]

Linda, thank you for taking the time out to read my story and for sharing yours. Sometimes I question if I'm doing the right thing. We've never really been in a situation like this before. If my brother would only step out of his shoes for a moment, It would kill him to see what this is doing to out mother.

I have tried everything out there to help my mom, suggested widow groups, joining the gym, taking classes, seeing a therapist, etc etc. she seems to think she's beyond help at this point.

[Linda Maria]

I know honey.  My Mum and Dad had a fantastically close marriage and they never really needed anyone else.  My Mum would just never have been the person to join groups and do new things, even with someone else - so we could never get her to do all that stuff either.  So it is tough - options for socialising are limited, and you feel like you have to provide all the entertainment and support.  But you just have to accept that there is only so much you can do.  My Mum had some nice friends that she used to see each week, but gradually they died, or moved away, or got too ill to go out any more and it was hard on her.  But I used to try to ring her every day, even just for 5 mins, and as I say she did come over and stay regularly.  If you're able to plan things - even far ahead so she has stuff to look forward to.  One thing that really helped my Mum was she ended up adopting my sister's dog.  It meant she walked her twice a day, or took her to the park, which was always a sociable thing, as dog walkers all seem to get to know each other and compare notes on their dogs, and they usually live locally.  So don't know if something like that might help.  Plus Skippy the dog was great company for her.  Just do what you reasonably can, and don't beat yourself up.  I suspect your Mum loves you dearly and would hate to think of you worrying about her like this so be kind to yourself.  Best wishes  JB

[funfunctional]

Hi,

You have had a lot going on!  Lot of loss and family "broken".   My first reaction when I read about your brother's wife was that the "B" in BPD stands for somethings else with her.   She just sounds like one of those Brides from hell.   "my way  my way".

Then I was thinking somehow "YOU" owe an apology when you weren't invited to their wedding.  When you start not inviting people to weddings then the big guns are out.  Those are life long relationship breakers and that is your brother's doing for allowing this woman to control him.   Your brother must be a very low self confidence person to let this happen.    Has he tried to "talk" to you privately and RESOLVE this?  He has the right to do that and if his new wife is "controlling" him then he is DONE.   Wait till they have kids.   I smell child support in his future.

I think you have some wiggle room in getting your mom to go for therapy.   Why don't you get her to a grief counselor?   She lost her husband and you lost your dad.   So traumatic.   Ask her to go with you.   Tell her YOU are having trouble and need her support.   

Oh my! And to top off all the grieving and pain you guys are going thru the nasty Nellie comes riding in on the bridal train and runs you guys over.    Do you have track marks on your back or what?

Your bro is going to have to figure her out.   Wait till honeymoon is over.

[P.F.Change]

She constantly sounds mopey and upset. I try to be there for her as much as I can but I also have my own family to worry about. I'm just tired of seeing her this way and if I could take all her pain I would. I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't know how to fix her situation. I can't.

I can tell you care a lot about your mom and want her to feel better. It hurts to see our loved ones feeling depressed, and it's natural to want to help. I think you already know that you can't fix things for her--she has to want to get better enough to try. It's also true that feeling depressed and negative thinking feed each other. It can be hard for someone to see solutions or have hope in things when they're down--other people's well-meaning suggestions to talk to a counselor or try medications are often dismissed as too hard or not worth the effort. It's part of depression.

You may not be able to stop your mother from moping or feeling sorry for herself, but you can communicate with SET to offer suggestions and establish boundaries for yourself. You may not be able to force her to open up to a therapist, but you can possibly make the idea less scary by offering to set up the first appointment and drive her there. What else can you do?

[Youcantfoolme]

Thank you everyone! Your suggestions are all very good! Linda it was good to read your story because its nice knowing there's others who can relate. I spend lots of time on the phone with her too. She actually panics if I don't call her for a few hours. It can get a little hard because at times we have nothing to talk about because we talk so often. I ALWAYS feel guilty when I hang up the phone but I have to pay attention to my own family too. I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone but knowing that you feel the same sense of obligation really puts me at ease. I'm sorry you also have to deal with this type of situation.

AHi,

You have had a lot going on!  Lot of loss and family "broken".   My first reaction when I read about your brother's wife was that the "B" in BPD stands for somethings else with her.   She just sounds like one of those Brides from hell.   "my way  my way".

Then I was thinking somehow "YOU" owe an apology when you weren't invited to their wedding.  When you start not inviting people to weddings then the big guns are out.  Those are life long relationship breakers and that is your brother's doing for allowing this woman to control him.   Your brother must be a very low self confidence person to let this happen.    Has he tried to "talk" to you privately and RESOLVE this?  He has the right to do that and if his new wife is "controlling" him then he is DONE.   Wait till they have kids.   I smell child support in his future.


I think you have some wiggle room in getting your mom to go for therapy.   Why don't you get her to a grief counselor?   She lost her husband and you lost your dad.   So traumatic.   Ask her to go with you.   Tell her YOU are having trouble and need her support.   

Oh my! And to top off all the grieving and pain you guys are going thru the nasty Nellie comes riding in on the bridal train and runs you guys over.    Do you have track marks on your back or what?

Your bro is going to have to figure her out.   Wait till honeymoon is over.

This is exactly why the situation with my brother is amplified. Our family unit has already been broken down and now this complete stranger has come in and made it even worse.  To be honest my brother did communicate with me that he wanted a relationship but it would have to be a "secret" one for a long while until he could figure out how to get is wife to "paint me white". I agreed at first but later explained to him that I thought it was crazy and didn't feel comfortable having to sneak around to contact my own family. I wasn't allowed to call or text him. If I wanted to email him, it could only be at certain times, during the week, like while he was at work. My only other option was using a web messenger like Aim or Skype. When I sat down and really thought about i, I realized how unfair it was to me. Why should I have ANY relationship that isn't on my own terms as well as the other persons? I wrote him a long email explaining how I felt about it. I wasn't condescending or rude. Basically I told him I wasn't comfortable with it but if he needed me I'd be here. I tried to write it in the most diplomatic way I could. .  I never heard back.

I wrote that email in hopes that he'd finally stand up for himself and basically tell his wife that she didn't need to have a relationship with me but she needs to understand that he does and allow him to have it. Looking back, after all the reading I've done on BPD, that's just simply not how it works. He claims to be going to counseling to learn to deal with her yet it doesn't seem that he's gotten up to the part about making boundaries with her.

PFCHANGE, can you please explain more about SET to me? I'm not familiar with it. I like your idea of bringing my mom to the councilor. I have called a few who are willing to sit and speak with her. Maybe that's something that needs to be explored further. Thanks a lot! You guys all rock!

[P.F.Change]

PFCHANGE, can you please explain more about SET to me? I'm not familiar with it.

I'd be happy to. We have a good workshop here: TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth Many people find SET helpful when communicating with someone who has BPD, but in reality it is a great tool to use in any kind of relationship. It helps the other party feel supported, heard, and understood, while also allowing the speaker to assert what may be a different viewpoint. Validating the other person's feelings often creates a safe enough feeling that they are more receptive to listening. That does not mean they are going to be able to hear and understand and validate you back, but it does give you the opportunity to communicate that you care, even when your needs are different.

Want to take a look and let us know if you have any questions? This is a good place to practice, too, if you'd like.