Were YOU the replacement?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Now that I'm no longer in the midst of chaos, I have done a lot of reflecting.

I was his replacement from his ex.  When we got together, he told me that he was renting a room from a family member (we lived in different cities, met at a wedding).  His ex wasn't at that wedding with him because she had another committment of her own.  We moved pretty fast, now I know it was all part of the disorder and my codependancy.  Now, 16yrs later, his sister confessed to me that he never was renting a room and that he was living with his ex when he met me.  He basically moved from her house to my house. (It was his sister's wedding that we met at.  She hated his ex and loved me, so when her brother expressed interest in me she saw it as a chance to put together two people she loved.  I have no ill feelings towards his sister, no one held a gun to my head)

This was a long time ago, but very telling.  Down the road, when I do start dating, my bullsh** meter will be on guard.  I am not that naive 21yr old any more.

I just found this interesting.  Even though I'm the only one my ex ever married, this realization that I replaced someone else makes me feel weird.

[refusetosuccumb]

Now that I'm no longer in the midst of chaos, I have done a lot of reflecting.

I was his replacement from his ex.  When we got together, he told me that he was renting a room from a family member (we lived in different cities, met at a wedding).  His ex wasn't at that wedding with him because she had another committment of her own.  We moved pretty fast, now I know it was all part of the disorder and my codependancy.  Now, 16yrs later, his sister confessed to me that he never was renting a room and that he was living with his ex when he met me.  He basically moved from her house to my house. (It was his sister's wedding that we met at.  She hated his ex and loved me, so when her brother expressed interest in me she saw it as a chance to put together two people she loved.  I have no ill feelings towards his sister, no one held a gun to my head)

This was a long time ago, but very telling.  Down the road, when I do start dating, my bullsh** meter will be on guard.  I am not that naive 21yr old any more.

I just found this interesting.  Even though I'm the only one my ex ever married, this realization that I replaced someone else makes me feel weird.

[Aussie JJ]

In response, yes.  Also she kept that relationship going for the first 9 months of our reltaionship, thats when the devaluation started :D

[antjs]

I have been a replacement for her ex. Their rs lasted for 8 months. Ours lasted for 6 weeks. At its end she was devaluing me and starting to reidealize him. Now he is my replacement after i was his replacement. The last sentence sounds crazy right ?  It does not matter who replaces who anymore. The best way to win is to exit this triangle. The only way to exit this triangle is as a victim not a prosecutor nor a rescuer.

[Turkish]

Yes, for her dad.

[Mutt]

I'll echo Turkish, I felt like a parent.

I wasn't a replacement that I know of. She was going to school in my city for 3 months from a different town and she was dating and she attached to me.

[OutOfEgypt]

I was the replacement for the guy before me (another internet-found, intense, with-phone-sex love interest).  I was also the replacement for the dad she never had and the displacement object for all of the rage and pain she had for all of the non-care she received growing up.

[Infared]

Refusetosuccumb, I completely identify with the way you were duped and I became the replacement while the BPD was still in a relationship with someone else (sadly, actually 2 some else's)). In my initial involvement with my pwBPD it was embarrassingly more than obvious that I was replacing someone else.  Now I can see that the way in which we got together shows how unhealthy we both were. ... and five years later, big surprise, I was summarily replaced when I was no longer needed or of value.

I met my BPD at a weekend springtime work situation over a period of two years. Just 1or2 nights a week for about 8 weeks each spring. I was not electrically attracted to her or anything. I was a person that initially tried to give her guidance (fixer/hero).  Unfortunately, I listened to what she said, not what she did.  She was in a live-in relationship with someone (she SAID that the relationship was over and that she was just living there. I am SURE that he did not know that now, and I and SURE that she told my replacement the same thing. No doubt.). I came to assess that she was having an affair with one of the other workers at this temp job. He was married and had 4 children.  The guy was a weirdo and a creep. Real creepy and manipulative.  When I surmised that they were together and asked her if that was the case, she semi-shamefully admitted that it was true.

She was young and attractive ( I honestly had no intentions at this point... .I am a honest, descent guy<stupid?>... .I was basically telling her " Honey, WHAT are you doing with your life... .you need to get away from this creep."  She came off as a vulnerable victim (yeah right),and I was honestly just trying to be helpful to someone who seemed like a descent person, who lacked experience (god, was I a fool.).

Flash forward a year and the next season she tells me that she is interested in me. Now she is still living with the guy I replaced and working with the married guy... .but "says" both those relationships are over.

At this point I have developed an attraction for her, and am interested, but I proceed with some caution. (BTW my status thru this whole time period was needy-single LOL). I tell her that I will under no cicumstances date her while she is living with someone else. I also suggest that she has to end all assoc. with the creepy married guy. Within a month she has done all this and I help her move into her new apt. (As I am sure my replacement helped her move into her new apt when she left me 5 years later saying that there was no one).

4 years into our relationship I filed stalking charges against the creep. We had moved in together quite some distance and I had had no contact with him at all and my pwBPD pointed out that he was sitting in his car in the dark watching our house when we were going out one night. She acted surprised, but for all I know, that relationship was going on the entire time I was with her. I will never know.

I really loved her. The abrupt ending and all the abuse and devaluation really devastated me.

I was really shell-hocked... .and I was never able to trust again after what I went thru, and decided not to date any more. I am sure that I never will. Too much pain back there.

Like you, I was gullible and took the person at face-value and believed what they "said". Big mistake. Of course she knew she had another "fool".

I don't actually think of myself as a fool. I know I am a good person and respect myself and my values. I was duped, and it is truly her loss... .but that doesn't make the pain go away. I completely recoil around women and have for years now.

I agree with Mutt and Turkish, I think that I was a replacement for a parent in the end.

[refusetosuccumb]

Definitely also a replacement for the mother he never had.  I do know his mom, there is something seriously wrong with her, and his sister coroborates the terrible childhood they had.  I'm a nurturer by nature and had no problems nurturing him to "save" him from his trauma and "show him the way" he deserved to be loved and treated.

But I never did get that in return.  We were together for 5yrs before our son was born. Free from responsibilities and able to pour all my time and energy into just him.  Then our son was born.  My ex loved his son but would get irritated by all my attention being focused on the baby.  Then our daughter was born.  Then it got worse.  That was when my ex started acting out and doing drugs.  I had severe Post Partum Depression with my daughter.  So bad I had to go on meds 6 months after she was born.  My ex was NOT supportive for me at all.  When I told him I think I have PPD, his response was "deal with it now or I'm leaving with the kids since you can't seem to be good at juggling all our needs"  But when my ex admitted he needed some mental health help (before he realized exactly how hard the work was going to be), I only cheered him on, even though all I got was a verbal slap down when I needed him.

I'm an excellent mom.  I know this.  But my ex made me question myself a lot, even when other people were telling me that they were amazed how much I did with and for my kids, despite having a sick husband and a full time job.  But all I heard in my head was his criticism.  Sad.

Now that I'm single and free, I have replaced the time I spent doing things for him doing things for me.  My kids get a lot of my attention but I'm terrified of turning them into needy adults so I'm able to enforce boundaries and chores with them without guilt, because I'm raising them to be self sufficient adults.  But I'm still Me and I need to heal myself.  I no longer feel guilty telling them "mommy needs some down time why don't you watch tv until supper is ready?"  They need to see, and understand, that we all need to make time for ourselves as well.

But I don't have 3 children anymore. 

[BPD_NYY]

The idea of this was that ugly feeling in the pit of my stomach for years. My guy was telling me one thing, my heart was saying another, and my brain trying to put the two together. After 7 years and lots of tough days contemplating, I will say that I have concluded the answer is a resounding YES. This comes from sessions with T both single and couples, discussions, arguments, etc.

The things that jumped out at me were: unclear history of residency for previous 2 years before we met, self-employed (thought that meant had it together) and good at what she did but doesn't understand business, father / daughter issues that were so big I could write a whole post on that alone. At therapy she flat out indicated she is looking for someone that is going to take care of her (like a PARENT).

I was a replacement like most of us likely were. Just another person in the string being used to compensate for their own lack of being a capable adult.

[Zon]

I was the replacement although I never met the guy as they were having a long distance relationship.  From what she told me, I had a pretty low evaluation of him.  With my low self-esteem, I felt that I was better than him.  I was interested in her for a month or two but did not do anything to get involved.  Anyway, the breakup from him and dating me took this course:

• Met her and did friendly (nothing too friendly) stuff with her and her friends.



• She broke up with him about a month or two after we met although she later claimed that she had been planning to breakup with him since just before we met.



• She started hinting at wanting to date me a few days after breaking up with him.



• She explicitly told me that she wanted to date me since I was clueless to catch the hints.



• We started dating even by her definition.  She said that her definition of a boyfriend is when she is having sex with him.

It is interesting to read an old journal from that time to see that even then I thought it may be too soon for her to start dating.  For myself, it may have been too soon, yet it was several months for me.

Here is an interesting note that I scribbled down.  She realized that she liked me when I was gone for a day visiting family.  That sounds somewhat like she noticed liking me when she felt alone.  Tied to abandonment perhaps?

[Turkish]

• We started dating even by her definition.  She said that her definition of a boyfriend is when she is having sex with him.

That is interesting. That was my Ex's justification that what she did wasn't cheating because they hadn't slept together yet. Of course, still living in my house for 4 months until I could get her out, she later did. Even broken up, I still considered it cheating, because she abandoned her household responsibilities and neglected our children to go out with him. She thought she was sneaking around. I was painfully aware of everything.

[Mutt]

• We started dating even by her definition.  She said that her definition of a boyfriend is when she is having sex with him.

That was my Ex's justification that what she did wasn't cheating because they hadn't slept together yet.

My ex was cheating for several months until the day she told me that she was leaving. The replacement was attached. I told her outright when the replacement came out 3 weeks after she left me and I said she was having an affair. She dissociated and said "But Mutt it wasn't an affair! I told you I was leaving you!" I know my ex and her patterns. It could of been any detail and she'll dissociate that feeling  

[Reforming]

Join the cue. The truth is we all were. 

[Ventus2ct]

I certainly was (and of course she definitely traded up!) she phoned me 2 weeks after so say dumping him, land line, very direct. I thought "wow this bird has balls" and triggered my immediate interest, I had met her previously, asked her if she would like supper one eve, she said yes then cancelled last minute (I gave her verbal about being rude and having no manners).

Turns out she went out with him that eve, they then had a 8 month relationship, ended and then she was onto me. I wonder who the unfortunate victim is now, poor soul!

Upon reflection she wasn't that good in bed anyway!

[Tincup]

I was not a replacement that I know of.  But my ex liked to keep a very private social life so I am really not sure.  To my knowledge she never "lied" to me.  She could however have a distorted sense of what the truth was at times.  But I really do not think I was a replacement.  She was broken up for at least 6 months before me.

[Turkish]

I was actually the emotional replacement for The One boyfriend who left her two years previously. She never was in love with the brief bf before me. I didn't feel her let go of the emotional attachment with The One until two years into our r/s, after S4 was born. I felt it, then later found something she had written to herself on our computer that confirmed it.

6 years, 2 kids... .I felt like I was the "rebound" r/s in a way. I know it was much more than that, but that's what it feels like to me.

[Infared]

• We started dating even by her definition.  She said that her definition of a boyfriend is when she is having sex with him.

That was my Ex's justification that what she did wasn't cheating because they hadn't slept together yet.

My ex was cheating for several months until the day she told me that she was leaving. The replacement was attached. I told her outright when the replacement came out 3 weeks after she left me and I said she was having an affair. She dissociated and said "But Mutt it wasn't an affair! I told you I was leaving you!" I know my ex and her patterns. It could of been any detail and she'll dissociate that feeling  

Mutt, I experienced the exact same thing. (I did not know she was cheating on me and had no clue when she said she was leaving me. I was in shock.) I also did not know what BPD was.

The dissociative behavior seemed new to me... .when I figured everything out later (it was unbelievable the lies she was telling, she met this guy, a work colleague 2yrs. prior to her leaving and had mentioned him to me... .(she may have been trying to make me jealous, I don't know now... .I just thought it was somebody she worked with ... .when you love someone and you think they love you, I thought nothing of it at the time). Then when she ran off and I figured out who she was with, she said that she met him after she left me!).

When I called her on it in a way that she could not deny that she had lied she dismissed the truth by saying "those were lies I told you after I left you."  ?  Like, as if, that ended the topic, justified her lying and left her free and clear.

I was speechless. The behavior was that of a 7 yr. old. The thing is,I did not experience this behavior when I was living with her.

[antjs]

r\s with BPDs feels like rebounds cause they are in constant chase for a guy after a guy, they do not take breaks. they even hook a guy before leaving the one before him. my r\s felt like a rebound. some time ago during the bargaining stage i said "what if i was just a rebound and she is not BPD" but then the rebound does not explain the abuse and manipulation and the treatment i received in general. i have been through a rebound r\s during college. it was sweet though it ended with some pain that only lasted for a week.

[Mutt]

My ex was cheating for several months until the day she told me that she was leaving. The replacement was attached. I told her outright when the replacement came out 3 weeks after she left me and I said she was having an affair. She dissociated and said "But Mutt it wasn't an affair! I told you I was leaving you!" I know my ex and her patterns. It could of been any detail and she'll dissociate that feeling  

Mutt, I experienced the exact same thing. (I did not know she was cheating on me and had no clue when she said she was leaving me. I was in shock.) I also did not know what BPD Was.

The dissociative behavior seemed new to me... .when I figured everything out later (it was unbelievable the lies she was telling, she met this guy, a work colleague 2yrs. prior to her leaving and had mentioned him to me... .then when she ran off and I figured out who she was with, she said that she met him after she left me!).

When I called her on it in a way that she could not deny that she had lied she dismissed the truth by saying "those were lies I told you after I left you."  ?  Like, as if, that ended the topic, justified her lying and left her free and clear.

I was speechless. The behavior was that of a 7 yr. old. The thing is,I did not experience this behavior when I was living with her.

I was in shock too Infrared. I was gobsmacked. Out of the blue she pulls me in the bedroom and nonchalantly says "we're done" We're married with kids involved. I said "I don't think you understand what you're saying, your not just affecting one life, your affecting many" I was very confused as was much of the marriage with her behavior. I heard of BPD through movies and such but never did I think it was borderline personality disorder or a mental illness I was dealing with. But, I was being replaced I had become the punitive parent in her mind.

I was angry right after the split and sent her an email saying that she was having an affair and that was her response. After being on here and reading the articles and really detaching and getting out of the FOG I noticed a pattern of dissociation. She knows it's not right to have a relationship with someone else when you are in a marriage but she dissociate to counter those negative feelings. I understand the behavior quite clearly now. I just take it for what it is. That's her reality and I'm entitled to my reality and I don't make a fuss with her anymore. There's no point.

[Ventus2ct]

Tincup, I don't know your story but I felt exactly the same about my ex, all sweetness and light. She said she had been single for 2 years prior to the ex before me. I know for a fact she banged it around quite a few people locally as its a small town and someone always knows someone, hence I found out that the truth was not in fact the truth.

In her case the FWB situation was king I believe, 2 years of being single, she had plenty of benefits. So in stating she didn't have a relationship for 2 years she was correct but what's a relationship? FWB? Lots of one night stands? Anyway it's bye the bye now.

[BacknthSaddle]

r\s with BPDs feels like rebounds cause they are in constant chase for a guy after a guy, they do not take breaks.

I feel like there is truth to this, even if it is not universally the case.  My ex, now 30, told me she hadn't been without a boyfriend AT ALL since she was 16.  Like a single day.  Since divorcing her ex-husband, she hasn't gone more than 2 weeks max without a "boyfriend," despite saying that she looked forward to "learning about myself when I'm finally alone."

[BacknthSaddle]

In my case, I was not the "replacement" per se.  But, I was definitely

a) A stand-in for what my ex thought she was missing in her marriage and

b) A means by which to exit that marriage

When the marriage no longer existed, I was no longer needed, and was thus discarded. 

[Mutt]

In my case, I was not the "replacement" per se.  But, I was definitely

a) A stand-in for what my ex thought she was missing in her marriage and

b) A means by which to exit that marriage

When the marriage no longer existed, I was no longer needed, and was thus discarded.  

I'm sorry she discarded you. It's using someone as a transitional object to cope with their feelings in another relationship. It makes you wonder how many unresolved issues are under the layers from every relationship. She doesn't have the capacity to have an inter-personal relationship. The sudden abandonment and discard is hard

[BacknthSaddle]

Thank you Mutt. Seeing things in that way is actually not so painful for me. Really it's quite liberating, because it allows me to realize how far this person is from being able to have a healthy relationship. In other words, it helps me to recognize that there's nothing I could have done.

As an aside, this is one of the reasons NC is key. When you're in the middle if the relationship, in a position of intimacy, you can see all the pathology. When you're out of contact entirely, you can recall the pathology. But when you are in the picture peripherally, only seeing snippets of the image the person wants to project to the world, you can start to feel like it's all different now, and that you failed by not being able to fix it when someone else could.

[Infared]

r\s with BPDs feels like rebounds cause they are in constant chase for a guy after a guy, they do not take breaks.

I feel like there is truth to this, even if it is not universally the case.  My ex, now 30, told me she hadn't been without a boyfriend AT ALL since she was 16.  Like a single day.  Since divorcing her ex-husband, she hasn't gone more than 2 weeks max without a "boyfriend," despite saying that she looked forward to "learning about myself when I'm finally alone."

yeah... .hmmm... .sounds familiar... .mine ran off with another guy but was, of course lying about it to me.  I figure out what went down and she had gotten her own place, and he was clearly living with her.  We would talk once in a great while (it was alway a horror for me) and she would say things like, "yeah, being out on my own has really been good for me."    LOL!

1. Is she just trying to cover her tracks?

2. Does she know she is lying?

3. Does she actually believe what she is saying?

I and you will never know. That's for sure.

[BorisAcusio]

r\s with BPDs feels like rebounds cause they are in constant chase for a guy after a guy, they do not take breaks.

I feel like there is truth to this, even if it is not universally the case.  My ex, now 30, told me she hadn't been without a boyfriend AT ALL since she was 16.  Like a single day.  Since divorcing her ex-husband, she hasn't gone more than 2 weeks max without a "boyfriend," despite saying that she looked forward to "learning about myself when I'm finally alone."

yeah... .hmmm... .sounds familiar... .mine ran off with another guy but was, of course lying about it to me.  I figure out what went down and she had gotten her own place, and he was clearly living with her.  We would talk once in a great while (it was alway a horror for me) and she would say things like, "yeah, being out on my own has really been good for me."    LOL!

1. Is she just trying to cover her tracks?

2. Does she know she is lying?

3. Does she actually believe what she is saying?

I and you will never know. That's for sure.

Their reality testing is mostly intact apart from a few dissasociative moment. She is lying to keep the attachment in case of emergency/soothing.

[Infared]

r\s with BPDs feels like rebounds cause they are in constant chase for a guy after a guy, they do not take breaks.

I feel like there is truth to this, even if it is not universally the case.  My ex, now 30, told me she hadn't been without a boyfriend AT ALL since she was 16.  Like a single day.  Since divorcing her ex-husband, she hasn't gone more than 2 weeks max without a "boyfriend," despite saying that she looked forward to "learning about myself when I'm finally alone."

yeah... .hmmm... .sounds familiar... .mine ran off with another guy but was, of course lying about it to me.  I figure out what went down and she had gotten her own place, and he was clearly living with her.  We would talk once in a great while (it was alway a horror for me) and she would say things like, "yeah, being out on my own has really been good for me."    LOL!

1. Is she just trying to cover her tracks?

2. Does she know she is lying?

3. Does she actually believe what she is saying?

I and you will never know. That's for sure.

Their reality testing is mostly intact apart from a few dissasociative moment. She is lying to keep the attachment in case of emergency/soothing.

ahhh, Boris... .I would not have looked at it that way... .they are SOO conniving. I just do not think in those terms.  You may be right. On one occasion I was out in front of my place putting my MTB on top of my car... .my peripheral vision caught her driving by 3 maybe 4 times... and I knew "in-coming!". LOL. Was NOT funny at the time... .EXTREMELY emotional for me. She pulled in right behind my car and started to get out of the car and it was also comical (now, not then... I was in a cold sweat)... as I had strict NC in place to save ME.  As she was coming out I said are you still with blank (name of guy she was living with)? She gave a reluctant "yeah".  What the heck?... .I said GOOD bye... .and she looked like a jack-in-the-box. Before she even stood up she was back in the car and out of there.  Oh... if I could only of held my ground... .but being a good guy, just trying to protect myself... .I thought "wow, that was really mean of me".  What a mistake. I was REALLY taking care of me... .but I relented and made the mistake of calling her.  It went very poorly for me, of course... .but my point for bringing this up is that I surmised in the conversation that her guy was apparently out of town for the weekend... and of course the reason for the multiple drive-by and stop in was because she could not be on her own for even one day. I am learning.  I think she may even have slept with me?  She was mean to me on the phone, but pushing to go for a walk with me right then, (she could not be alone)... .like I would be her willing little puppy dog. My response came from a LOT of therapy and support: "Absolutely not! So you want me to take a walk with you, and talk to you, and get close to you and want to be with you, I will go home alone,  and then tomorrow night you will sleep with <blank>, right?. Absolutely not. That would not be being a very good friend to myself now would it?"

The silence was deafening.  I think she was in shock that she had no control over me. I had stopped therapy but had an "emergency" meeting with my therapist to discuss the situation... .I let a few days go by (i.e.  I was not rash or overly emotional, which I tend to be), and I sent her a phone message in a calm voice, telling her in decent terms (no swearing, etc.) what I thought of her and how I felt about the way she had treated me, our relationship and our home.   I told her to stay out of my life.  Those were my last words to her. It was VERY difficult for me to totally take care of me and detach from her.  Very difficult. I think my voice cracked on the last sentence... .but I have maintained NC for years now. It still hurts. I have to be honest. And she has made 4 or 5 attempts to "run-in to me"... .but my reflex response is to get to a safe place.

It is amazing how much it still effects me... .but thank God with a lot of work I have trained myself to protect me from harm. Its so sick.  There is no chance of an understanding there, between two people... .NONE.  Listening to everyone here confirms that for me. So sad.

[refusetosuccumb]

Thank you all for sharing your stories with me.  It's nice to know I'm not alone in a club no one ever wants to join.

My ex is still intent on "winning me back" but he never will.  Too many pushes and pulls, trust broken, hopes dashed.  Even now, 12 weeks out of it, there have been little moments of "aha" to solidify that I made the right choice.  Pink razors in the bathroom (had to pee when picking up the kids, definitely not snooping just made an oberservation), lipstick stains on a coffee mug where the kids are sitting, my kids mentioning "daddy's friend xyzfemale stopped by to say hello".  Yet he is adamant I'm the only one for him and they are all just friends.  It now pisses me off that he still lies to me, even though I expect it from him (if his lips are moving he's lying is my new motto).

Taking care of Me seems mean to him at times, but I'm getting better at it.  Like today: the kids are both gone to friends houses so instead of taking care of stuff at the house, I'm sitting on my butt in front of the computer.  It's too early for wine, , so I'm drinking a hot coffee.  May even take a nap.  I deserve it.

[mywifecrazy]

I have been a replacement for her ex. Their rs lasted for 8 months. Ours lasted for 6 weeks. At its end she was devaluing me and starting to reidealize him. Now he is my replacement after i was his replacement. The last sentence sounds crazy right ?  It does not matter who replaces who anymore. The best way to win is to exit this triangle. The only way to exit this triangle is as a victim not a prosecutor nor a rescuer.

I have been a replacement for her ex. Their rs lasted for 8 months. Ours lasted for 6 weeks. At its end she was devaluing me and starting to reidealize him. Now he is my replacement after i was his replacement. The last sentence sounds crazy right ?  It does not matter who replaces who anymore. The best way to win is to exit this triangle. The only way to exit this triangle is as a victim not a prosecutor nor a rescuer.

As long as you don't become his replacement who was your replacement after you were his replacement... .End the cycle AJ!

PS I'll get back to you soon!

MWC

[antjs]

I have been a replacement for her ex. Their rs lasted for 8 months. Ours lasted for 6 weeks. At its end she was devaluing me and starting to reidealize him. Now he is my replacement after i was his replacement. The last sentence sounds crazy right ?  It does not matter who replaces who anymore. The best way to win is to exit this triangle. The only way to exit this triangle is as a victim not a prosecutor nor a rescuer.

I have been a replacement for her ex. Their rs lasted for 8 months. Ours lasted for 6 weeks. At its end she was devaluing me and starting to reidealize him. Now he is my replacement after i was his replacement. The last sentence sounds crazy right ?  It does not matter who replaces who anymore. The best way to win is to exit this triangle. The only way to exit this triangle is as a victim not a prosecutor nor a rescuer.

As long as you don't become his replacement who was your replacement after you were his replacement... .End the cycle AJ!

PS I'll get back to you soon!

MWC

no recycles for me MWC. I am out for good. out of the FOG. actually surprised at falling for her but forgiving myself. probably if i get any contact i will laugh, snort and continue my day. cheers