Can the lack of empathy be learnt in treatment?

[ziniztar]

The other day I had quite the talk with my dBPDbf. In treatment for approx 1,5 years, he's facing his own shortcomings more and more. Some bits:

- "I don't even WANT to comfort you when you're feeling lonely again. I don't get it and think you are overreacting."

- "I don't want to go home early if your feet hurt."

- "I don't WANT to skip fun things / work shifts so we can spend time together."

- "I am worthless, how can I be a good boyfriend to you, I am extremely selfish."

- "Everything I can't or won't do for you, I expect from you. If you don't do it, I get mad."

This obviously has to do with his lack of empathy. He's always been quite nice and supporting so now hearing he actually doesn't care hurts a little. It makes me feel less inclined to go to him if I'm upset.

Can the lack of empathy be trained in treatment? Or will he never be capable of it?

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[mitti]

That's sounds tough. I remember when I was in T with my uBPDxbf that he faced similar shortcomings but just not spelt out so clearly. I doubt he would have been able to cope with the shame and guilt over how unfair he would have sounded.

Our T though, said that empathy can be learnt, absolutely. We teach kids how to be empathic so yes. Personally I also believe that it is something that can be trained. I think it is something that we all have in us, we just need to learn to understand it and show it. With pwBPD I think showing empathy feels threatening to them, at least this is something that came out with my x in T, he felt that he would then be manipulated and taken advantage of. He just didn't trust that people wouldn't abuse it. Love was really really very scary to him.

[ziniztar]

I doubt he would have been able to cope with the shame and guilt over how unfair he would have sounded.

Yeah he's struggeling with that too. It sends him into a depression as his pitch black self-image is his biggest challenge. I find it comforting to hear he wishes better circumstances for me, showing some empathy towards me suffering. His solution is to withdraw completely, adressing my unhappiness to his shortcomings. Some of it is true, it's also related to his unrealistic high standards.

I'm also not really sure if he feels like this all the time, or only during push phases. I think it's related to dependancy as well. He needs me to be strong, capable, so I can always be there for him. He'll blame me for my weakness. I think it's impressive he's aware of his unrealistic needs - I complimented him on the insight and validated the fact it can be devastating to find out these things about yourself and wanting to change them.

Our T though, said that empathy can be learnt, absolutely. We teach kids how to be empathic so yes.

That sounds good. I hope so.

Why did you break up with your uBPDbf?

[HappyChappy]

Can the lack of empathy be trained in treatment? Or will he never be capable of it?

I've often read that N’s can fake empathy. In fact I’ve see it. Showing lots of concern over a poor little hurt animal for example. Then no concern for their own child. From all I’ve read, personality disorders are hard wired, so there is no cure for NPD. But BPD does seem one step closer to reality, in they have glimpses outside their fantasy. And there is a spectrum, so depends how far up your BPD is.

But  looking at the considered experts out there, no one is prepared to say you can re-wire. So if there's no empathy, I'm guessing that's how it must be.

There is a PR guru in the UK, Max Clifford, who worked for TV stars. He shows excellent empathy (check his videos out) when talking about the pain the media put upon his clients.  When one of his clients was convicted of child sex acts, he was appalled and very concerned for the victims. He recently  went down for 8 years for the same crime. He’s believed to have a personality disorder. I wish I could give you the answer you want, but having read widely on this topic, I've not seen conclusive evidence than they can be re-wired. Best of luck.

[HappyChappy]

PS... .The Max Clifford example was just to illustrate that empathy can be faked to a very high standard. He's career depended on it. No parallels are being drawn with you BPD as we don't know him.

[mitti]

Why did you break up with your uBPDbf?

It didn't really have anything to do with our relationship dynamic directly per say. He had a friend whom he had become very close with. This friend had his own agenda and I didn't fit into it so he did his best to drive a wedge in. Of course had my x not struggled with his BPD panic, anxiety and attachment issues this would never have become a problem.

And the CT that we were in helped a lot. She was trained in DBT and had lots of clients with BPD tendencies so this helped a lot. Had it not been for that friend I believe we would have made it, because he was very committed to it and had a lot insight into his own problems. He also accepted that the BPD description fitted him even though he has never had a diagnosis.