The right way to do NC?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I had a blow-out fight with my ex over text a few weeks ago.  Since this time I have maintained NC.  We have discussed the need for NC in the past, but it has always been broken.  After this specific fight, I did not state explicitly that I wanted to end contact. Since then, she has texted me a few times, including some half-hearted apologies, and I have not responded. 

She texted me today and said "so that's it?"  I began feeling guilty because I felt like, without stating clearly that I wanted NC, I was being passive aggressive, giving her the silent treatment.  So I told her I didn't want to talk anymore.  This led to her getting angry with me, saying "oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?" saying "If you don't want to talk that's fine, I've dealt with a lot of losses.  Take care."  She also referred to our "friendship" many times; she refuses to discuss ever having been romantically involved with me, even though we were for a year and a half, and if I bring up that this often makes "friendship" more challenging, I just get told how immature I am etc (today I got a simple "Ugh".  She said I thought I was "too good for our friendship," that "you can't shut me out and then expect to just reconcile" (I don't even know what that was referring to), etc. 

Anyway, for the most part I kept my composure, didn't take the bait, etc. My anxiety level is of course very high right now as it always is when I'm in contact with her, but I have some peace at least knowing that I stated my position.  I'm wondering how people react to my handling of this.  Would it have been better to just not respond at all?  Or would that have been passive aggressive as I feared, without formally stating that I was going NC?  Thank you for any input. 

[BacknthSaddle]

I had a blow-out fight with my ex over text a few weeks ago.  Since this time I have maintained NC.  We have discussed the need for NC in the past, but it has always been broken.  After this specific fight, I did not state explicitly that I wanted to end contact. Since then, she has texted me a few times, including some half-hearted apologies, and I have not responded. 

She texted me today and said "so that's it?"  I began feeling guilty because I felt like, without stating clearly that I wanted NC, I was being passive aggressive, giving her the silent treatment.  So I told her I didn't want to talk anymore.  This led to her getting angry with me, saying "oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?" saying "If you don't want to talk that's fine, I've dealt with a lot of losses.  Take care."  She also referred to our "friendship" many times; she refuses to discuss ever having been romantically involved with me, even though we were for a year and a half, and if I bring up that this often makes "friendship" more challenging, I just get told how immature I am etc (today I got a simple "Ugh".  She said I thought I was "too good for our friendship," that "you can't shut me out and then expect to just reconcile" (I don't even know what that was referring to), etc. 

Anyway, for the most part I kept my composure, didn't take the bait, etc. My anxiety level is of course very high right now as it always is when I'm in contact with her, but I have some peace at least knowing that I stated my position.  I'm wondering how people react to my handling of this.  Would it have been better to just not respond at all?  Or would that have been passive aggressive as I feared, without formally stating that I was going NC?  Thank you for any input. 

[LettingGo14]

Anyway, for the most part I kept my composure, didn't take the bait, etc. My anxiety level is of course very high right now as it always is when I'm in contact with her, but I have some peace at least knowing that I stated my position.  I'm wondering how people react to my handling of this.  Would it have been better to just not respond at all?  Or would that have been passive aggressive as I feared, without formally stating that I was going NC?  Thank you for any input.  

I don't have a map, but I'll tell you what I learned -- painfully.  It did not matter what I did or didn't do in the end -- I was a "trigger" for her and, even if I wanted to sanely establish "no contact" as a "cooling off" period, I would have triggered a reaction.

In fact, most of our final conversations were emotionally reactive, on both sides.  

We spent 4 months NC.  

Two weeks ago, I had an opportunity to spend a couple hours with my ex-girlfriend, in a platonic way.   I realized that: (a) the NC, painful as it was, made us less emotionally reactive to the other, and (b) it allowed me to detach emotionally, so that I was less enmeshed with the drama.

Here's what I think BNTS.  NC is a tool -- today's NC might morph to LC in 4 or 6 months, or never.   The bottom line is that you are doing it for you, and your mental health, not as punishment to her.

I would probably have replied like you did, and the result would have been the same triggering.

[Frankcostello]

I had a blow-out fight with my ex over text a few weeks ago.  Since this time I have maintained NC.  We have discussed the need for NC in the past, but it has always been broken.  After this specific fight, I did not state explicitly that I wanted to end contact. Since then, she has texted me a few times, including some half-hearted apologies, and I have not responded. 

She texted me today and said "so that's it?"  I began feeling guilty because I felt like, without stating clearly that I wanted NC, I was being passive aggressive, giving her the silent treatment.  So I told her I didn't want to talk anymore.  This led to her getting angry with me, saying "oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?" saying "If you don't want to talk that's fine, I've dealt with a lot of losses.  Take care."  She also referred to our "friendship" many times; she refuses to discuss ever having been romantically involved with me, even though we were for a year and a half, and if I bring up that this often makes "friendship" more challenging, I just get told how immature I am etc (today I got a simple "Ugh".  She said I thought I was "too good for our friendship," that "you can't shut me out and then expect to just reconcile" (I don't even know what that was referring to), etc. 

Anyway, for the most part I kept my composure, didn't take the bait, etc. My anxiety level is of course very high right now as it always is when I'm in contact with her, but I have some peace at least knowing that I stated my position.  I'm wondering how people react to my handling of this.  Would it have been better to just not respond at all?  Or would that have been passive aggressive as I feared, without formally stating that I was going NC?  Thank you for any input. 

I would not reply to her.  Why get yourself involved in her drama again?  She's trying to bait you into her drama again.  Whatever you say or do she will twist it in a negative way, if you don't reply she will take it as you abandoning her, if you reply whatever you tell her it will be twisted negatively.  I will leave her alone and give yourself the time for yourself without any of her drama.  Not responding to her will let her know that you don't want any more part of her drama.

[BacknthSaddle]

Anyway, for the most part I kept my composure, didn't take the bait, etc. My anxiety level is of course very high right now as it always is when I'm in contact with her, but I have some peace at least knowing that I stated my position.  I'm wondering how people react to my handling of this.  Would it have been better to just not respond at all?  Or would that have been passive aggressive as I feared, without formally stating that I was going NC?  Thank you for any input.  

I don't have a map, but I'll tell you what I learned -- painfully.  It did not matter what I did or didn't do in the end -- I was a "trigger" for her and, even if I wanted to sanely establish "no contact" as a "cooling off" period, I would have triggered a reaction.

In fact, most of our final conversations were emotionally reactive, on both sides.  

We spent 4 months NC.  

Two weeks ago, I had an opportunity to spend a couple hours with my ex-girlfriend, in a platonic way.   I realized that: (a) the NC, painful as it was, made us less emotionally reactive to the other, and (b) it allowed me to detach emotionally, so that I was less enmeshed with the drama.

Here's what I think BNTS.  NC is a tool -- today's NC might morph to LC in 4 or 6 months, or never.   The bottom line is that you are doing it for you, and your mental health, not as punishment to her.

I would probably have replied like you did, and the result would have been the same triggering.

Thank you for your thoughts Letting Go.  They are greatly appreciated.  When she asked for an explanation, I gave one that was along the lines that you said: right now, when we talk, we fight, and we fight in a particularly unpleasant, unconstructive way, and it happens over and over again.  I cannot continue to fight this way as it is not good for me.

I don't know that I felt that I "owed her an explanation" per se... .although I'm sure FOG played a role.  I just wanted to make this point of view clear.  It is very true.  When she texted and my anxiety shot through the roof, it helped me realize how low my anxiety was when we were not talking.  

[BacknthSaddle]

I had a blow-out fight with my ex over text a few weeks ago.  Since this time I have maintained NC.  We have discussed the need for NC in the past, but it has always been broken.  After this specific fight, I did not state explicitly that I wanted to end contact. Since then, she has texted me a few times, including some half-hearted apologies, and I have not responded. 

She texted me today and said "so that's it?"  I began feeling guilty because I felt like, without stating clearly that I wanted NC, I was being passive aggressive, giving her the silent treatment.  So I told her I didn't want to talk anymore.  This led to her getting angry with me, saying "oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?" saying "If you don't want to talk that's fine, I've dealt with a lot of losses.  Take care."  She also referred to our "friendship" many times; she refuses to discuss ever having been romantically involved with me, even though we were for a year and a half, and if I bring up that this often makes "friendship" more challenging, I just get told how immature I am etc (today I got a simple "Ugh".  She said I thought I was "too good for our friendship," that "you can't shut me out and then expect to just reconcile" (I don't even know what that was referring to), etc. 

Anyway, for the most part I kept my composure, didn't take the bait, etc. My anxiety level is of course very high right now as it always is when I'm in contact with her, but I have some peace at least knowing that I stated my position.  I'm wondering how people react to my handling of this.  Would it have been better to just not respond at all?  Or would that have been passive aggressive as I feared, without formally stating that I was going NC?  Thank you for any input. 

I would not reply to her.  Why get yourself involved in her drama again?  She's trying to bait you into her drama again.  Whatever you say or do she will twist it in a negative way, if you don't reply she will take it as you abandoning her, if you reply whatever you tell her it will be twisted negatively.  I will leave her alone and give yourself the time for yourself without any of her drama.  Not responding to her will let her know that you don't want any more part of her drama.

Thank you Frank.  I did respond, just because I felt like the way I was conducting myself wasn't much different from "the silent treatment," and I wasn't proud of that.  Now that I have stated my position clearly, I don't anticipate any more responses. 

[Frankcostello]

I had a blow-out fight with my ex over text a few weeks ago.  Since this time I have maintained NC.  We have discussed the need for NC in the past, but it has always been broken.  After this specific fight, I did not state explicitly that I wanted to end contact. Since then, she has texted me a few times, including some half-hearted apologies, and I have not responded. 

She texted me today and said "so that's it?"  I began feeling guilty because I felt like, without stating clearly that I wanted NC, I was being passive aggressive, giving her the silent treatment.  So I told her I didn't want to talk anymore.  This led to her getting angry with me, saying "oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?" saying "If you don't want to talk that's fine, I've dealt with a lot of losses.  Take care."  She also referred to our "friendship" many times; she refuses to discuss ever having been romantically involved with me, even though we were for a year and a half, and if I bring up that this often makes "friendship" more challenging, I just get told how immature I am etc (today I got a simple "Ugh".  She said I thought I was "too good for our friendship," that "you can't shut me out and then expect to just reconcile" (I don't even know what that was referring to), etc. 

Anyway, for the most part I kept my composure, didn't take the bait, etc. My anxiety level is of course very high right now as it always is when I'm in contact with her, but I have some peace at least knowing that I stated my position.  I'm wondering how people react to my handling of this.  Would it have been better to just not respond at all?  Or would that have been passive aggressive as I feared, without formally stating that I was going NC?  Thank you for any input. 

I would not reply to her.  Why get yourself involved in her drama again?  She's trying to bait you into her drama again.  Whatever you say or do she will twist it in a negative way, if you don't reply she will take it as you abandoning her, if you reply whatever you tell her it will be twisted negatively.  I will leave her alone and give yourself the time for yourself without any of her drama.  Not responding to her will let her know that you don't want any more part of her drama.

Thank you Frank.  I did respond, just because I felt like the way I was conducting myself wasn't much different from "the silent treatment," and I wasn't proud of that.  Now that I have stated my position clearly, I don't anticipate any more responses. 

Your story sounds like mine with my exBPDgf where she wanted to continue the "friendship" with me after she left and had been hooking up with other guys.  It was my exBPDgf's way of trying to control me which was selfish on her part.  I caught her lying multiple times while she was trying to keep a "friendship" with me.  Looking back I wish I had not replied to any of her texts and messages during that time because it prolonged my healing process, but that's the past.

[BacknthSaddle]

Your story sounds like mine with my exBPDgf where she wanted to continue the "friendship" with me after she left and had been hooking up with other guys.  It was my exBPDgf's way of trying to control me which was selfish on her part.  I caught her lying multiple times while she was trying to keep a "friendship" with me.  Looking back I wish I had not replied to any of her texts and messages during that time because it prolonged my healing process, but that's the past.

This is most certainly the case, with the added element that, whenever there is any mention of the fact that we had a relationship, literally if I say "you know exs sometimes find being friends difficult," she steers 180 degrees away from validation, casts me as "obsessive," devalues, etc. At this point I have no interest in any kind of relationship with her, and for months all contact has been forced, but I was just so enmeshed that pulling free has been a real challenge.  I'm with you.  I wish I had just said "ok, no more contact" from the very very beginning.  Failing to do so has definitely prolonged my healing process.  But I've realized recently that she serves no purpose in my life, has no role, and the role she wants me to play in hers is not one I want to assume.  So, better late than never I think.   

[Mutt]

She texted me today and said "so that's it?"  I began feeling guilty because I felt like, without stating clearly that I wanted NC, I was being passive aggressive, giving her the silent treatment.

Persons that are passive aggressive get enjoyment out of it.

This led to her getting angry with me, saying "oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?" saying "If you don't want to talk that's fine, I've dealt with a lot of losses.  Take care."

She's throwing up Guilt in FOG / emotional blackmail. Maybe even a little projection by saying that it's 2 years of bs that's she's had to put up with and she's projecting that on you. By saying that she has delt with a lot of losses before, doesn't that make you feel sympathetic to her BacknthSaddle? We talked about FOG and emotional blackmail in another thread.

She also referred to our "friendship" many times; she refuses to discuss ever having been romantically involved with me,

My ex was the same BackntheSaddle after she left me for the other man she said she refused to talk about the marriage and dissociate 7 years and said we never should of met. She refuses to discuss it because it's her distorted belief system. You know you reality and your not going to convince her otherwise if she's dissociated.

I just get told how immature I am etc

"so that's it?"

"oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?"

"Ugh"

Who is emotionally immature BacknthSaddle? Look at her texts, she's projecting her emotional immaturity on you. She's projecting and attaching a negative behavior on you. You don't own that.

Would it have been better to just not respond at all?

Good work in going no contact BacknthSaddle. Look at the sidebar. Attachment leads to suffering. Detachment leads to freedom.

[myself]

Now that I have stated my position clearly, I don't anticipate any more responses.  

Famous last words, huh? Hopefully it happens that way for you, but as LettingGo14 was saying, and which was true in my r/s as well, our exes will take it the way they take it. React or act the ways they do, despite how we approach it. Trigger/scapegoat/trigger/etc. Stating you need NC right now is good for you, but may set up a challenge to her. Again, hopefully not, but be prepared just in case. If you're done, stay done. Sometimes we get pushed away and think we're doing something wrong by staying away. But what we're really doing is taking stock of things, and taking care of ourselves. Choosing a better today is always OK. It was kind of you to be so honest with her. Don't let her projections weigh you down though. Be Yourself.

[Split black]

There is no end to the madness until you accept that its over and move on. I think i have achieved that. I found a new tdoc last week who has had extensive experience with BPD and other cluster ___ disorders. He has had them as patients as well. Anyway... .they will never let u go. Yes some do but if you have one like mine they will do anything... .say anything... .smear and ruin in an outward progression ... .everyone they seduce becomes  supply... .its tragic and funny. After her futile attempts at blackmail... .she reaches out and says she needs my help... .she wa nts a hug. NC from me and today i get texts... .hello hello?

Time for 3rd new number.

Be done with this insanity ... .because you are now as crazy as they are if you recycle. Trust me. After 5 recycles shes trying again. They cant let go. When u do they will attack and ruin... .when u dont they will possess your soul and mind and you will be stuck in gut wrenching misery until you do the hard work and leave them.

[BacknthSaddle]

She texted me today and said "so that's it?"  I began feeling guilty because I felt like, without stating clearly that I wanted NC, I was being passive aggressive, giving her the silent treatment.

Persons that are passive aggressive get enjoyment out of it.

This led to her getting angry with me, saying "oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?" saying "If you don't want to talk that's fine, I've dealt with a lot of losses.  Take care."

She's throwing up Guilt in FOG / emotional blackmail. Maybe even a little projection by saying that it's 2 years of bs that's she's had to put up with and she's projecting that on you. By saying that she has delt with a lot of losses before, doesn't that make you feel sympathetic to her BacknthSaddle? We talked about FOG and emotional blackmail in another thread.

She also referred to our "friendship" many times; she refuses to discuss ever having been romantically involved with me,

My ex was the same BackntheSaddle after she left me for the other man she said she refused to talk about the marriage and dissociate 7 years and said we never should of met. She refuses to discuss it because it's her distorted belief system. You know you reality and your not going to convince her otherwise if she's dissociated.

I just get told how immature I am etc

"so that's it?"

"oh so, 2 years of bulls**t and now this?"

"Ugh"

Who is emotionally immature BacknthSaddle? Look at her texts, she's projecting her emotional immaturity on you. She's projecting and attaching a negative behavior on you. You don't own that.

Would it have been better to just not respond at all?

Good work in going no contact BacknthSaddle. Look at the sidebar. Attachment leads to suffering. Detachment leads to freedom.

Thank you Mutt. You are spot on as always.  The previous thread in which we discussed FOG actually helped a great deal; I was able to recognize it for what it was during the conversation and maintain my composure and distance. Ultimately I felt that I was not responding because I was afraid to actually set the boundary outright, and I felt I had to do this. I feel some satisfaction in that. 

[BacknthSaddle]

Now that I have stated my position clearly, I don't anticipate any more responses.  

Famous last words, huh? Hopefully it happens that way for you, but as LettingGo14 was saying, and which was true in my r/s as well, our exes will take it the way they take it. React or act the ways they do, despite how we approach it. Trigger/scapegoat/trigger/etc. Stating you need NC right now is good for you, but may set up a challenge to her. Again, hopefully not, but be prepared just in case. If you're done, stay done. Sometimes we get pushed away and think we're doing something wrong by staying away. But what we're really doing is taking stock of things, and taking care of ourselves. Choosing a better today is always OK. It was kind of you to be so honest with her. Don't let her projections weigh you down though. Be Yourself.

Myself this is excellent advice and it is greatly appreciated. I am not naive enough to think that I am now immune to future relapses, but for the moment at least I feel some peace. You are right about all that you say, and I think part of the issue was I did not feel like I was being myself by avoiding her texts. In my everyday life I have no problem with clarity and directness, and I felt this was just another way I was walking on eggshells. Making my position clear has freed me of that feeling, at least for now, and hopefully that freedom will endure.

[Mutt]

Ultimately I felt that I was not responding because I was afraid to actually set the boundary outright, and I felt I had to do this. I feel some satisfaction in that.

Thank you BackntheSaddle and you're welcome. It's easier on this side as you see the words typed out in black and white.

It feels good to put your foot down doesn't it? She'll test your boundaries much like a young child that flails against them. For example my ex knows to not call my cell unless its an emergency regarding the kids and from time to time she calls because she's testing. She complained that I'm a wall a few months back, she's complaining about my boundaries.

We likely had floating boundaries when we were in a r/s with them but it will take some time for her to get the picture once you lay down steel boundaries and defend them. Don't be surprised if she continues to break them, just keep sticking to them. She'll get the picture and she'll likely move on to someone else.

I know it's a difficult thing to do while your detaching and they know which buttons to push but it gets easier further along.

[myself]

Making my position clear has freed me

This is where it really changed for me. I knew I had made my position clear with her, from where I was, even though she didn't want to hear what I was saying/wasn't seeing it the same way. Yet part of her also embraced the release (as did I). I resisted even saying it, knowing that once I did, I wouldn't go back. Because most importantly, I needed to make my position clear to myself. It's been like taking medicine I didn't want to take, but it's turning out to be good for me. We're too free for them now!

[BacknthSaddle]

We likely had floating boundaries when we were in a r/s with them but it will take some time for her to get the picture once you lay down steel boundaries and defend them. Don't be surprised if she continues to break them, just keep sticking to them. She'll get the picture and she'll likely move on to someone else.

This is part of what's been so frustrating: the emotional confusion I've felt from her end.  When she said she no longer wanted a relationship, I would have liked to just separate and be done with it.  But since then, despite the fact that she belittles my "lack of maturity" for even thinking about a relationship, the language from her end reveals so much emotional confusion.  She'll say things like "so that's it?" or "you're ending things with me" when I try to set boundaries... .this isn't the language of friends as I see it.  She'll say "I can navigate those other feelings better than you," unable to actually refer to the feelings as love or attraction or what have you.  She got angry with me the other day after going out of her way to emphasize "friendship" when I had done nothing to debate it; when she got angry she said "you act like we have no other attachment other than being friend," even though if I would have used the word "relationship" I would have been belittled.

It just seems that she is incapable of confronting, reflecting on, and processing the emotions involved here.  She has nominally "moved on," several times in fact, but obviously there's an element of this attachment that she hasn't moved on from.  That confusion induces confusion in me, and the only solution I know is to be away from it.  I can only conclude that someone who has that much trouble engaging with her own feelings is really not capable of having a meaningful, mutual relationship of any kind.  It makes me sad to see that on the screen for some reason, even though I've known it to be true for a long time.

We're too free for them now!

Yes indeed. 

[Mutt]

This is part of what's been so frustrating: the emotional confusion I've felt from her end.  When she said she no longer wanted a relationship, I would have liked to just separate and be done with it.  But since then, despite the fact that she belittles my "lack of maturity" for even thinking about a relationship, the language from her end reveals so much emotional confusion.

I agree it is confusing and anguishing BackntheSaddle.

My ex ended the r/s. I'm not sure about you but the acting out and emotional immaturity was worse than when I was with her. I triggered my ex's abandonment fears ( perceived or real to her) and she found another attachment and left me before she thought I would leave her. I was split black right there.

It has nothing to do with us at this point. She may feel emotionally dysregulated and she's looking for a source or an attachment for soothing. She may try to validate an attachment to see if your emotionally available if it's not working out with another partner for the fear of being abandoned. If you look at her messages BackntheSaddle she has nothing good to say about you because she only sees negative perceived qualities in you because you are split black. The opposite of the honeymoon and idealization phase. This is the other end of the pendulum and we can't control being split white. She can't distinguish the grey areas of life and people.

Any act of kindness or gesture will be reciprocated with anger, dissociations and blame and it's confusing. It's natural to be triggered and get caught in her conflict and it keeps perpetuating conflict. She may also be seeking attention, this negative attention is still attention after all. It could be a number of things and you know her best. You will eventually start to see patterns. If my ex is having a stressful event in her life I likely get blaming sand she tries to stir things up with me. For example when her boyfriend moved in, I had an idea that it may trigger stress and her insecurities and she was trying to cause conflict with me to soothe her anxities. Having known that I was radio silent and I anticipate her patterns.

The bottom line is that you're split black. It's a primitive defense mechanism that your dealing with. Your dealing with the disorder and not her as a person. You can't change it and neither can she.

She'll say things like "so that's it?" or "you're ending things with me" when I try to set boundaries... .this isn't the language of friends as I see it.

It's the language of respect. It's hard when your looking out for her feelings and not your own. BackntheSaddle I'm 40 and I didn't learn about boundaries until I got here, healthy boundaries. Detach and don't listen as painful as it is. Set boundaries and worry about what you need and take care of you.

"I can navigate those other feelings better than you"

She's not navigating it better than you she copes entirely different than you. Non disordered feel pain from the break-up and grieve. Her mind split you black to protect her. It's not navigating feelings and she has difficulties regulating and soothing her emotions. She takes those feelings out on the person she loved and it's verbal / emotional abuse. She pushes the people that she loves the most away. She does not have the capacity to have an inter-personal relationship. She's distorting that she knows how to navigate those feelings because she can't.

It just seems that she is incapable of confronting, reflecting on, and processing the emotions involved here.

If she doesn't know how to process her anxieties and insecurities she dissociates them. It hurts like hell BackntheSaddle when you loved her as much as you did and to cone to terms that she was mentally ill. You have invested yourself and your heart in your relationship and I'm sorry. It took me many months on these boards to finally cone to terms with my wife. She is ill with a very serious disorder. My love for her can't cure this disorder or fix it. I had to accept that there's nothing that I could do because her self awareness is low. I had to detach and let go and that's where you regain control and your freedom back.

Grieve the relationship you had during no contact and take care of yourself in the process  

[PhoenixFromTheFlames]

BacknthSaddle -

Thanks for sharing this with all of us.  I wanted to offer two thoughts - maybe helpful maybe not.

The first is maybe you can back up to your feelings about being passive aggressive which seem to be what motivated you to break NC.  You were worried / feeling guilty about "giving her the silent treatment."  Try not to do that to yourself.  BPDs prey on people like you/us who are: self-reflective, concerned about how we are perceived in terms of being considerate or inconsiderate, etc.  She knows this about you -- she knew she could get to you with that "so that's it?"  You're NC may be perceived by your exBPD as inconsiderate but you know that its not, you know that its not passive aggressive.  Trust yourself, trust that you have the right intent / motivations and that your NC is first and foremost about having consideration for yourself ... .not wanting to put yourself through the elevated heart rate / pulse, sweating, anxiety that comes with the contact.   isn't this part of what got us into the mess with a PBD in the first place? 

The second thing I want to offer you (and myself) is a thought on measuring the impact and our BPDs intent.  I'm not certain they really care what they say and how we respond.   If we could see and measure energetically what they receive in our energy and how they stoke up their own through our responses, knowing based on our responses how elevated we are etc... .would we engage?  I think probably not.  Imagine her sitting at home texting you while watching tv, reading a book, getting her nails done, whatever... .they aren't in it the way we are, they do this to provoke an energy hit from us -- it gives them energy, it gets them engaged/focused on something but the only the outcome they seek is to get the hit... .and they know it when they do because they can feel it through our responses.  Imagine as she reads your texts she is just kind of laughing / snickering because she knows she has you provoked and upset.  Don't give her the pleasure.  You're not passive aggressive, your smart in staying NC because it is what is helping you stay calm and anxiety free -- don't let her provoke your anxiety in order to distract herself from her own.

-Phoenix

[BacknthSaddle]

Thank you again Mutt.

If you look at her messages BackntheSaddle she has nothing good to say about you because she only sees negative perceived qualities in you because you are split black.

This is so true and yet so frustrating.  When you are told that you are "missed," it's hard not to feel like their must be some positive sentiment present.  Then you throw yourself back in, only to be devalued.  I have to accept that she doesn't "miss me" because of my good qualities, or because of any of my qualities at all.  She just "misses" the emotional availability.  The person it comes with is irrelevant.

She'll say things like "so that's it?" or "you're ending things with me" when I try to set boundaries... .this isn't the language of friends as I see it.

It's the language of respect.

Could you clarify this point for me?

She pushes the people that she loves the most away. She does not have the capacity to have an inter-personal relationship. She's distorting that she knows how to navigate those feelings because she can't.

It's frightening: mid-way through the relationship, when I finally started to see that there was something wrong and asked her why she was treating me this way, she said, verbatim, "I don't know.  I push away the people who are closest to me."  And of course I made the mistake that many of us make: thinking I could change or overcome that. 

Grieve the relationship you had during no contact and take care of yourself in the process  

Yesterday was actually the first time I started to tear up about the whole mess.  Which I take as a good sign.  A sign that I'm acknowledging the death of this relationship and beginning to grieve.  Let's hope I'm right. 

[BacknthSaddle]

BacknthSaddle -

Thanks for sharing this with all of us.  I wanted to offer two thoughts - maybe helpful maybe not.

The first is maybe you can back up to your feelings about being passive aggressive which seem to be what motivated you to break NC.  You were worried / feeling guilty about "giving her the silent treatment."  Try not to do that to yourself.  BPDs prey on people like you/us who are: self-reflective, concerned about how we are perceived in terms of being considerate or inconsiderate, etc.  She knows this about you -- she knew she could get to you with that "so that's it?"  You're NC may be perceived by your exBPD as inconsiderate but you know that its not, you know that its not passive aggressive.  Trust yourself, trust that you have the right intent / motivations and that your NC is first and foremost about having consideration for yourself ... .not wanting to put yourself through the elevated heart rate / pulse, sweating, anxiety that comes with the contact.   isn't this part of what got us into the mess with a PBD in the first place? 

Thank you very much for these insights Phoenix.  This board has helped me to become more self-aware during our interactions and more aware of her actions as well.  Yesterday I really took note of the anxiety I felt, the physiologic aspects, for the first time.  Really attended to it.  And really noticed how it had been absent during NC.  Sure, there was some longing during NC, but nothing like the true physical sensation of this anxiety. 

Thank you again. 

[Mutt]

She'll say things like "so that's it?" or "you're ending things with me" when I try to set boundaries... .this isn't the language of friends as I see it.

It's the language of respect.

Could you clarify this point for me?

Cetainly and my apologies. Boundaries tools of respect. If your throwing up healthy boundaries and she doesn't like it that's really her problem. What do you quantify as a friend BacknthSaddle?

Here's a quick list for what I value in friends and friendship:

~ trust

~ compassion

~ support

~ dependability

~ someone I value my time with

~ compatibility

~ positive attitude

So in the context of what she quantifies as a friendship is making someone feel bad about themselves, fixing her problems, guilt, someone to take her frustrations on.


Does that sound like a friend?

Yesterday was actually the first time I started to tear up about the whole mess.  Which I take as a good sign.  A sign that I'm acknowledging the death of this relationship and beginning to grieve.  Let's hope I'm right.

I shed a lot of tears BacknthSaddle. It's a part of grieving. I'm glad to hear that your getting unstuck. Your a good man you deserve better.

[BacknthSaddle]

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification!  Yes I would agree that those are the appropriate criteria and she meets none of them.  I guess I was trying to convey that it creates much confusion when a person who repeatedly hammers that she wants a pure friendship and has no romantic interest, even when you don't bring it up, says things like "so you're ending things with me."  This strikes me as the language of romantic partners, not friends, and it just thickens the confusion.

Regardless, though, she is not suitable for either role.  Time to move forward. 

[Mutt]

"so you're ending things with me."  This strikes me as the language of romantic partners, not friends, and it just thickens the confusion.

I understand BacknthSaddle projection is confusing, she's really saying "so I ended things with you" and saying it in a accusing way and attributing her unpleasant behavior on you. Don't feel bad for her negative emotion it's her maladaptive coping skill.

Then she told me one day that she met someone else and she didn’t want to speak with me anymore.

Projection is a defense mechanism, operating unconsciously, in which what is emotionally unacceptable in the self is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others.  Projection is denying one's own unpleasant traits, behaviors, or feelings by attributing them, often in an accusing way,  to someone else.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Projection

[BacknthSaddle]

Thanks Mutt.  I'm realizing that I've actually greatly undervalued the role projection has played in the whole relationship.  She sabotaged the r/s in many ways toward the end, almost certainly driven at least in part by abandonment fears. Since then she has tried to cast the entire relationship (including present) in an entirely different light and has accused me of pulling away, refusing to work on things, of being the one preventing it from working.  A massive projection scheme.

What is she defending against exactly? Shame in ending the relationship? In causing pain?

[Lion Fire]

I was triggered all over the place when we had contact and so as she.

I cut it clean, blocked her on every level. This has helped me to heal. Sometimes I still feel a "f**k you" of defiance when she reaches out and I ignore her again. I have my own personal mantra which goes along the lines of I'll never allow her to beat or abuse me again. This works for me now. I'm sure it will mellow with time

For me it's been more about regaining my power, protecting myself from her and giving myself space to heal than revenge or a silent treatment game.

To be honest, it's one of the most empowering things I've ever done. Following through has also built my self confidence. I could never say NO to her. Now I am 

[Mutt]

What is she defending against exactly? Shame in ending the relationship? In causing pain?

Caredverymuch shared a very good article a few days ago on this board. It's a good read for you and everyone and will answer your question on schemas responses used as coping mechanisms in borderline personality disorder  

I want to share this article and I encourage you all to read it. Young answers many of the "whys" regarding the actions, the behaviors, the d/ds, and so very much that we all struggle with as the recipients of these deeply hurtful actions by outlining the schema's and modes that the pBPD existence depends upon.

When I was in t for PTDS as a result of my r/s with a pBPD, I would speak of the many hurtful, confusing actions my ex continued to bestow on me in his final dissociation and abandonment of me.  Things like taking an entirely different route so he would not have to even see me, overnight it seemed, of the final split. The deep pain my heart would feel when I would subsequently see him in the community during those months, as I was missing and grieving him so hard, and he would notice me and immediately retreat, turn his back, and go elsewhere. The ignoring and deliberate cold response when he continues to see me presently, leaving me struggling with thoughts that I never existed after such a deeply bonded r/s together. The lack of any closure at all. I struggled so deeply to understand this all in healing and most as recently here on my last thread.

I would say things like to my t such as, " Why doesn't me miss me? Why didn't I know this mean, cold part of this person before? Where is the man who opened all the way up to me in full emotional bonding and is now able to just ride right by me, like I never existed?"  She consistently answered with the following; " There's a terrified young child under all of that behavior." After reading Young's article, I now understand what she meant. The Detached Protector.

https://sites.google.com/site/cognitivetherapycenterofli/self-help-materials/borderline-personality-disorder

Article: Schema Therapy and Borderline Personality Disorder -Jeffrey Young, Ph.D