What happens when she accepts herself?

[Blimblam]

The other day I broke nc.  I texted my ex and rereading my texts I was passive aggressive on the other hand my ex was very cordial polite set clear boundaries. It really seems like she has accepted herself BPD and all.  In a way I am kind of happy for her and also kind of envious.

So if she has accepted herself and is really not devaluing and gaslighting like she once did what does that mean?

She even texted me she was "really sorry".  

[BorisAcusio]

There are no miracoulous milestones where a BPD suddenly stop using those primitive defenses and becomes self-aware. They border between the paranoid-schizoid and depressive position which means that they can use more mature defense mechanisms just like you when not triggered by anxiety.

[goldylamont]

good lord you got an apology? hard to know, but i would probably believe it's true to some degree. pwBPD do feel guilty often for their actions although they rarely admit it. thing is, don't think it will be consistent. her other side is still there. if you don't believe it and you keep contacting her, you'll see it again and wish you hadn't initiated.

"when someone shows you who they are, believe them. the *first* time". --dr. maya angelou (via oprah winfrey, who she was counseling regarding abusive relationships)

and you can trust dr. angelou regarding this. how many times do you need to see who she is before you believe it? dr. angelou, besides being a wise elder, was in a r/s with a man who would beat her unconscious. one day he hit her in the head with a piece of wood, threw her in the back seat of his car, then went to a bar to get a drink. then he showed her off passed out in the back of his car and told people "this is what you do to a b!@# who cheats." of course she wasn't cheating. sound like BPD to you? her mom had to rally up some muscle later to kick down this guy's door and save her daughter. she could easily have been killed. listen to the message of people who've been there and back and made a success of themselves. they'll tell you how the world and the people therein operate. believe your ex, the first time. every other time after that is a waste of your precious life here.

[BorisAcusio]

She was quite clear about that not being interested. Why do you keep trying and expecting a different outcome? There is often a feeling of grandiosity behind these thoughts, that we can manipulate the circumstances or morph into something that would be finally attractive to her. When the quest for the desired supply fails, comes the direct/indirect agression against the withdrawing object.

[Take2]

"when someone shows you who they are, believe them. the *first* time". --dr. maya angelou (via oprah winfrey, who she was counseling regarding abusive relationships)

GREAT quote... .  thank you for posting that... .  saving that one and putting that up at my desk to remind me every day... .   

[Blimblam]

She was quite clear about that not being interested. Why do you keep trying and expecting a different outcome? There is often a feeling of grandiosity behind these thoughts, that we can manipulate the circumstances or morph into something that would be finally attractive to her. When the quest for the desired supply fails, comes the direct/indirect agression against the withdrawing object.

Idk what I was looking for.  I didn't want her back and I dont want to see her. I guess I wanted her to acknowledge her behaviors and how bad I was hurt because of them. 

[Blimblam]

Goldy,

I remember everything that happened I was just sort of angry when I texted her this stuff. I got mad and then I sort of hit the lifting stage of recovery.  Within a 24 hour period of texting her I detached from the soulmate bond to her.

Really I am just wondering if she has healed a great deal she would behave like this.  She did not say sorry for her behavior she won't even acknowledge her behavior.  But it was the first time I have gotten a sorry out of her. 

It was just so odd reading back over those texts.

[Caredverymuch]

She was quite clear about that not being interested. Why do you keep trying and expecting a different outcome? There is often a feeling of grandiosity behind these thoughts, that we can manipulate the circumstances or morph into something that would be finally attractive to her. When the quest for the desired supply fails, comes the direct/indirect agression against the withdrawing object.

Idk what I was looking for.  I didn't want her back and I dont want to see her. I guess I wanted her to acknowledge her behaviors and how bad I was hurt because of them. 

Blim, sometimes these boards can trigger us. They bring up emotions and thoughts that we might actually get the answers we are seeking from the person who caused the confusion.

Initially, after beginning to understand this d/o I thought a good idea to maybe go back and be even more understanding, since I was now seeming to get why he behaved the way he did at times. So if I was "getting it" of course I would share that with him and he of course would "get it now" too and everything would be right in the world.

I'm sorry to say that there is no going back. You'll get a different answer every time you do. Their object constancy combined with the d/o as a whole has them in a very different place then us.  :)on't kid yourself with believing they are sitting replaying things as we tend to do here. Out of sight, out of mind. They've dissociated a great deal about their experiences with us as well. The Detached Protector does this as their own boundary. Keep yours now too.

[eagle755]

I very seldom got apologies. She even told me "you're lucky because I never apologize to anyone"

When she cheated on me, I got several apologies for like 3 days maybe, after that she didn't really care.

After my break up with her, she lied a lot more than she already did, said a lot of crappy things that hurt really bad. I told her I was seeing someone else, and it seemed like it crushed her(but I'm sure it didn't). Then the following days after that, she "seemed" self aware, and very mature. She finally seemed like she understood she has severe problems and needs help.

But it's just a bunch of crap. Things in their mind change so drastically so quickly. And their actions definitely speak louder than their words, because all the while my ex was saying "I love you, I'm sorry, I wanna be with you forever" she continued going behind my back, and seeing other guys.

They can say things all they want, but don't listen to it.

[Blimblam]

Cared that is a wise message.  I don't think I will go back.  But I am wondering if it is possible she's accepted herself and her disorder and idk.  The respondes got she seems really centered      

Like a lot of things in her life is going good now and what if now she is more centered and if her new attachment is perhap had higher self esteem than when I did when she met me.  That she could have a relationship that works.

[Blimblam]

Eagle

I'm sorry you went through that!   I don't want her back. I don't even want to see her. I guess part of me is wondering if this guy will have met her at the right time and if he has a higher self image than I did he can come out unscathed.

[eagle755]

I had high self esteem, I'm an amazing guy, even after my break up I know this. I'm very awesome. I thought I'd be my exes hero. That I made her a better person. I was her longest relationship by 3x and it was actually solid, no break up and going back at all. And she never had that. I did make her better, and I was the perfect man for her.

But it all crumbled eventually. For no reason at all. She ended up sleeping with a guy who was insignificant to me in every single way imaginable. Even while she was having amazing sex with me.

No matter who the person is, nobody can save them for long.

[Blimblam]

Eagle yours sounds pretty mean


I guess it just means she is in the idealization phase with somebody.  And maybe he is not an ass like the people she was hanging around before when she was a b___.  Idk


My ex is really into weed and holistic type things and I wonder if now she is like good for a relationship while i nurses her back to health and got screwed over.

[Caredverymuch]

Cared that is a wise message.  I don't think I will go back.  But I am wondering if it is possible she's accepted herself and her disorder and idk.  The respondes got she seems really centered      

Like a lot of things in her life is going good now and what if now she is more centered and if her new attachment is perhap had higher self esteem than when I did when she met me.  That she could have a relationship that works.

Blim, why do you care if she accepted herself and her disorder? How is that information going to benefit you? Why are you spending time wondering if she is centered or if her new attachment has higher self esteem? How does any of this help you, the only person that should truly matter by now?

[BorisAcusio]

She was quite clear about that not being interested. Why do you keep trying and expecting a different outcome? There is often a feeling of grandiosity behind these thoughts, that we can manipulate the circumstances or morph into something that would be finally attractive to her. When the quest for the desired supply fails, comes the direct/indirect agression against the withdrawing object.

Idk what I was looking for.  I didn't want her back and I dont want to see her. I guess I wanted her to acknowledge her behaviors and how bad I was hurt because of them.  

It seems that I lost track of your story at the friends with benefits desire. I'm glad you made progress, waiting for validation is a futile attempt that will bring further pain into your life. Taking responsiblity would lead her to an unbearable place so it won't happen.

[Blimblam]

Cared that is a wise message.  I don't think I will go back.  But I am wondering if it is possible she's accepted herself and her disorder and idk.  The respondes got she seems really centered      

Like a lot of things in her life is going good now and what if now she is more centered and if her new attachment is perhap had higher self esteem than when I did when she met me.  That she could have a relationship that works.

Blim, why do you care if she accepted herself and her disorder? How is that information going to benefit you? Why are you spending time wondering if she is centered or if her new attachment has higher self esteem? How does any of this help you, the only person that should truly matter by now?

That's a really good question. I want to say curiosity but perhaps it is just resentment and wondering why I was the bitter one and she seems so to have made peace with herself.

[Blimblam]

She was quite clear about that not being interested. Why do you keep trying and expecting a different outcome? There is often a feeling of grandiosity behind these thoughts, that we can manipulate the circumstances or morph into something that would be finally attractive to her. When the quest for the desired supply fails, comes the direct/indirect agression against the withdrawing object.

Idk what I was looking for.  I didn't want her back and I dont want to see her. I guess I wanted her to acknowledge her behaviors and how bad I was hurt because of them.  

It seems that I lost track of your story at the friends with benefits desire. I'm glad you made progress, waiting for validation is a futile attempt that will bring further pain into your life. Taking responsiblity would lead her to an unbearable place so it won't happen.

I agree and a very good point.  I guess I just still have resentment I havnt processed and am curious if now she is more able to handle a relationship if she has found some way to stabilize herself.

I've just the last few days reached a point where I no longer feel a bond to her as my soulmate. I never thought I would break that bond and it took some very difficult self reflection examining my narcissism and it's role in the bond.

I guess I still feel gyped and wonder if I'm the only one she will burn this bad and if the new object will fair better than I did because he will have healthier boundaries and I nurses her to a better place and she has supply from a bunch of guys she will never sleep with.

[eagle755]

Oh she was horrible. But I thought everyone's was haha.

And I don't think it matters really what type of person it is, as long as they're showing them attention, they're all over them. It really sucks.

Like in my situation, I know the guy very well, he dated my friend with benefits. She told me allllllll about him. He also hung out with some of my family, who also told me allll about him. And he's literally just the worst kind of person, not an ass, just like, bad. At everything. Fat, ugly, disgusting, yellow teeth, horrible in bed, 26 lives with his parents, no job, goes fishing all the time, just a regular hillbilly trash. Yet, my ex slept with him. Even after all we went through, even as great as I am(I make a lot of money, I'm extremely fit, I work out and surf everyday, I'm attractive, etc etc.)

After I found out she even felt pretty ashamed and embarrassed to have downgraded so significantly.

I honestly can't really add their logic together, and am starting to just think they have none.

I can understand how you want to know if she's accepted herself. I wanted to know that a month ago. But then realized, it'll never happen, I mean I still hope sometimes, but then I think, why does it matter. she was horrible, I can do so much better.

[myself]

My ex had times where her life seemed more calm. She acted more sure of herself. Less angry, etc. It was another eye of the hurricane.

Go back to those Ten Beliefs That Keep Us Stuck, Blimblam. Some of the questions you ask are talked about and answered there.

I doubt she's already changed that much, this quickly.

[Caredverymuch]

She was quite clear about that not being interested. Why do you keep trying and expecting a different outcome? There is often a feeling of grandiosity behind these thoughts, that we can manipulate the circumstances or morph into something that would be finally attractive to her. When the quest for the desired supply fails, comes the direct/indirect agression against the withdrawing object.

Idk what I was looking for.  I didn't want her back and I dont want to see her. I guess I wanted her to acknowledge her behaviors and how bad I was hurt because of them. 

It seems that I lost track of your story at the friends with benefits desire. I'm glad you made progress, waiting for validation is a futile attempt that will bring further pain into your life. Taking responsiblity would lead her to an unbearable place so it won't happen.

I agree and a very good point.  I guess I just still have resentment I havnt processed and am curious if now she is more able to handle a relationship if she has found some way to stabilize herself.

I've just the last few days reached a point where I no longer feel a bond to her as my soulmate. I never thought I would break that bond and it took some very difficult self reflection examining my narcissism and it's role in the bond.

I guess I still feel gyped and wonder if I'm the only one she will burn this bad and if the new object will fair better than I did because he will have healthier boundaries and I nurses her to a better place and she has supply from a bunch of guys she will never sleep with.

I understand how you feel Blim. Its difficult to stop wondering what they are up to, what the new person is like, etc. The entire r/s with them was like nothing known to man so the detaching is along that same lines. 

As hard as it is, I really try not to care about those things. I know that it just keeps me in the triangle they yanked us into and will do nothing to help ME to ponder upon. The new person is not going to change the borderline. Do you believe that as I do?  Do you believe that the new person was not chosen because they have a more redeeming personality, a more self assured demeanor, a prettier smile, a more caring way.  The new person could be a garbage can wearing a wig. As long as that garbage can wearing the wig fills the one sided well of selfish need and doesn't ever have an emotional need of their own.

[patientandclear]

Maybe this will help.

I maintained 10 months of NC with my ex after he left me out of the blue, then got cold feet about getting back together after he initiated the idea.  I was still in touch till it became clear he was sniffing around another ex-gf, and suddenly I didn't feel nearly as special as I'd assumed I was from everything he said.

During that 10 months I discovered BPD, did a ton of reading and therapy, really thought I accepted his situation and what had happened.  I also learned he'd split with the old/new gf.  I made contact and offered to be friends.

What happened after that is complicated and painful and irrelevant to this post.  What is relevant: when I first got back in touch with him, oh my goodness, it was like hanging out with the Buddha.  He was so calm, insightful, self-reflecting.  He had made TONS of apparent movement and progress on issues where he had seemed stuck before, like his anger at his long-term ex-gf (he'd accepted that maybe she had some valid points) and an understanding that he had always lost himself in relationships and couldn't figure out who he was while in a r/s.  Also he was thinking he'd run away from things most of his life and maybe there was a lot to be said for staying. This was all pretty amazing!  I was a great listener and he really delved into these points with me at length.  It was not a superficial act.

It is now almost two years later.  He has behaved since then in ways that fly in the face of every one of those insights.  Not to mention that we ran an experiment with being intimate friends while he wasn't in a romantic r/ship for a year; that was a largely great experience; he seemed more stable and calm and less impulsive than close friends had ever seen him.  Then he threw all that overboard and has behaved incredibly impulsively in a number of ways for the past year or so.  I've had conversations with him in the midst of chaos where he sincerely tells me that "nothing needs to be fixed" (and mind you, I wasn't saying it did!  this is something he produced out of the blue).

The point is: these insights are fleeting.  The pull of using strategies that have always worked for them to dull pain and provide respite and comfort is very very strong (as it is for all humans; some of us just have a slightly less destructive kit of coping mechanisms than folks with BPD are carting around).

So it doesn't surprise me that your ex sounds calm and insightful.  She may be.  I would not expect that insight to guide her choices and behavior now or in the future, though.

[goldylamont]

Yes. Patientandclear is correct regarding their feeling may be genuine in the moment (or not?), yet it will never be consistent. For instance, if I were to say "I love you with all my heart" to someone, or if I were to tell someone I was terribly sorry for how I treated them, this means something far different and sustainable for me than for a pwBPD. This thought carries more weight for me, would last longer and not change on a dime. Nor would I then need to become dishonest with who I had spoken to after realizing that after a few days I felt completely the opposite.

And Blimblam, much of your questions about her are actually about yourself I believe. In particular the common thought of if you were more confident and had higher boundaries would she behave different? Well ultimately no she wouldn't. Perhaps the r/s would last a bit longer? I think pwBPD tend to behave better for longer periods of time when around someone with a stronger sense of self, but no in the end they will act the same. No new man will change her. At all. Keep reminding yourself of this.

[Blimblam]

She was quite clear about that not being interested. Why do you keep trying and expecting a different outcome? There is often a feeling of grandiosity behind these thoughts, that we can manipulate the circumstances or morph into something that would be finally attractive to her. When the quest for the desired supply fails, comes the direct/indirect agression against the withdrawing object.

Idk what I was looking for.  I didn't want her back and I dont want to see her. I guess I wanted her to acknowledge her behaviors and how bad I was hurt because of them. 

It seems that I lost track of your story at the friends with benefits desire. I'm glad you made progress, waiting for validation is a futile attempt that will bring further pain into your life. Taking responsiblity would lead her to an unbearable place so it won't happen.

I agree and a very good point.  I guess I just still have resentment I havnt processed and am curious if now she is more able to handle a relationship if she has found some way to stabilize herself.

I've just the last few days reached a point where I no longer feel a bond to her as my soulmate. I never thought I would break that bond and it took some very difficult self reflection examining my narcissism and it's role in the bond.

I guess I still feel gyped and wonder if I'm the only one she will burn this bad and if the new object will fair better than I did because he will have healthier boundaries and I nurses her to a better place and she has supply from a bunch of guys she will never sleep with.

I understand how you feel Blim. Its difficult to stop wondering what they are up to, what the new person is like, etc. The entire r/s with them was like nothing known to man so the detaching is along that same lines. 

As hard as it is, I really try not to care about those things. I know that it just keeps me in the triangle they yanked us into and will do nothing to help ME to ponder upon. The new person is not going to change the borderline. Do you believe that as I do?  Do you believe that the new person was not chosen because they have a more redeeming personality, a more self assured demeanor, a prettier smile, a more caring way.  The new person could be a garbage can wearing a wig. As long as that garbage can wearing the wig fills the one sided well of selfish need and doesn't ever have an emotional need of their own.

Well I've seen the guys facebook posts over time because I noticed he had been liking everything she posts on fb for a Long time.  I checked out that stuff when I got really suspicious at one point. 

His facebook persona is always updates about how blessed he is and focus of on the positive and it seemed to be some sort of spiritual twist of the positive thinking nature.  Which I think is a sort of American cult who's ideas made it mainstream in the states. You know just focus on the positive in the moment don't think about the past... .Sounds very BPD and how they run away from personal responsibility right?  To be care free because to care would mean being vulnerable. 

[Conundrum]

Trying  to comprehend the psyche of my ex, poisons enjoying her company. It's a drag. All relational sense within her is eclipsed by the three ring circus, fun-house mirrors, and a gargoyle carousel. She is distorted, enlongated and constricted, possessing  the tempo of a mad metronome. Who am I to mend that broken clock-work?  I am neither the clock maker, nor the agent of change. A friend perhaps... .

So, she comes by every now and then. Folds my children's laundry and mine. Scrubs our bathrooms. We chat. She says quirky meaningful, meaningless words. She blows me, and goes on her merry, mad way. Who am I to decipher this being. Sometimes she calls me for a ride. She loves me, she loves me not. Does it matter that much. We are all transitory petals. Who I am. My purpose remains distinct.

[Blimblam]

Patients clear, goldy, myself

That does help a lot.  And makes a lot of sense.  It had me so confused and it left unintentional hooks into understanding why?   I really came here for answerss to more easily stop rumination in my heD the questions or push them away to have them nag at me.

Resolving my curiosity makes it easier to remove the story from my emotions so I can process them.  

[Blimblam]

Trying  to comprehend the psyche of my ex, poisons enjoying her company. It's a drag. All relational sense within her is eclipsed by the three ring circus, fun-house mirrors, and a gargoyle carousel. She is distorted, enlongated and constricted, possessing  the tempo of a mad metronome. Who am I to mend that broken clock-work?  I am neither the clock maker, nor the agent of change. A friend perhaps... .

So, she comes by every now and then. Folds my children's laundry and mine. Scrubs our bathrooms. We chat. She says quirky meaningful, meaningless words. She blows me, and goes on her merry, mad way. Who am I to decipher this being. Sometimes she calls me for a ride. She loves me, she loves me not. Does it matter that much. We are all transitory petals. Who I am. My purpose remains distinct.

wow conundrum your ability to be detached yet still get blowies is impressive.  Please tell me more about how you can not get drawn in?

[Conundrum]

Please tell me more about how you can not get drawn in?

Drawn into what--a swirling storm. Why would I want to do that? We were domestically related for 7 years. A time before the deluge. She was my help-mate and more. That time has passed. An unstable person cannot be, what they are not. Why would I pick at that scab, over and over? She is what she is. I am what I am. Through the eye of a needle the thread that passes through may sew many things. She and I are colorful mittens. A respite from the drab weather, but once at home you take them off. Sometimes they sit on a shelf for a long time.