The chest tightness is back

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

the break up was in march. i started NC in april. it has been 4 months now. i cycled through two very depressive phases, one just after the break up (i got better) and a second one that lasted till the end of june (was more aggressive than the first one). I have been feeling better since the start of july and began introspecting. I revisited my therapist once due to panic attacks still coming. he still denies anything wrong with me regarding foo, rescuer, self worth... .etc issues. I am not convinced. What is still happening to me still indicates that i have issues. i still think about her every second even during the better times. he says that i will keep stuck at thinking about her because i am not filling my time with a job, going out and living my life (sounds like distractions for me). I have been doing good regarding introspection. I am trying to be as honest as possible and to be kind to myself at that same time. today i woke up with totally different feelings. back to not sure if she is BPD "maybe she is not BPD. she was having difficult times when she met me" (her history of r\s is enough to confirm she is BPD), i feel like i miss her (rescuing supply), i feel like i am not happy because she is not in my life anymore (shifting my attention away from the abandonment depression and sitting with my feelings) and i feel that i want her back. i understand the disorder very well, i understand my schema somehow (i need her to validate and idealize the lost inner child in me). sometimes the feelings hit back and are stronger than any cognitive or intellectual reasoning. i am just venting. the chest tightness is back and really bad ass to me right now. I know that this shall pass. But i am really tired of this cycling of feelings. every time it feels less and less logical cause every time i am longer out of the FOG. till when ? i want my life back. I want to be happy. why can not just i be happy with what i have and be ok with that emptiness that i am feeling ?

[antjs]

the break up was in march. i started NC in april. it has been 4 months now. i cycled through two very depressive phases, one just after the break up (i got better) and a second one that lasted till the end of june (was more aggressive than the first one). I have been feeling better since the start of july and began introspecting. I revisited my therapist once due to panic attacks still coming. he still denies anything wrong with me regarding foo, rescuer, self worth... .etc issues. I am not convinced. What is still happening to me still indicates that i have issues. i still think about her every second even during the better times. he says that i will keep stuck at thinking about her because i am not filling my time with a job, going out and living my life (sounds like distractions for me). I have been doing good regarding introspection. I am trying to be as honest as possible and to be kind to myself at that same time. today i woke up with totally different feelings. back to not sure if she is BPD "maybe she is not BPD. she was having difficult times when she met me" (her history of r\s is enough to confirm she is BPD), i feel like i miss her (rescuing supply), i feel like i am not happy because she is not in my life anymore (shifting my attention away from the abandonment depression and sitting with my feelings) and i feel that i want her back. i understand the disorder very well, i understand my schema somehow (i need her to validate and idealize the lost inner child in me). sometimes the feelings hit back and are stronger than any cognitive or intellectual reasoning. i am just venting. the chest tightness is back and really bad ass to me right now. I know that this shall pass. But i am really tired of this cycling of feelings. every time it feels less and less logical cause every time i am longer out of the FOG. till when ? i want my life back. I want to be happy. why can not just i be happy with what i have and be ok with that emptiness that i am feeling ?

[mywifecrazy]

What's up AJ... .Don't beat yourself up.

Here's what I'm picking up from reading your post. You are describing all these feelings of anxiety, pain, stress, etc, etc. you are also describing having constant thoughts about your xpwBPD... .See the connection? You need to disconnect from her. I've read many of your posts, She def sounds like pwBPD.

I know it's not easy but you need to do it for YOU. All your focus needs to be on you. Do things that make YOU happy. Do things that get YOU feeling healthy again.

I agree with your T you do need to start filling the void with activities, hobbies, hanging out with friends. Get involved socially with groups of people that you like, etc. You need to rebuild your life post BPD. It can be hard at times and we all have a tendency to look back at the wreckage of our r/s w pwBPD but when we do that we get stuck.

Again give yourself a break and don't beat yourself up for your feelings. It's ok. Just try to do some healthy things for yourself.

MWC

[antjs]

my feelings during the introspection and coming to terms with my issues are so hurtful. i am afraid that i might not recover or heal from the interaction with her ever yet at the same time i do not want to distract or bury any unresolved feelings because thats what i have been doing all through my life and that lead me to end up in an interaction with a pwBPD. its like a viscous cycle. i do not want any unresolved feelings but at the same time maybe i am just creating a problem out of nothing by overthinking. i really do not understand myself. is a break healthy now ? will it let any unresolved feelings to be buried in my subconscious ?

[antjs]

i am sure she is BPD. this is not my problem. she is not my problem anymore. i do understand that feelings are not rational or logical but thoughts are. thats why i let the feelings come and i do not judge them. i know that probably tomorrow or in a week i will not be missing or wanting her. i understand how much she is toxic to me. my difficult emotions now are with introspection. i promised myself to use the aftermath of this interaction to get healthier, resolve my past issues and never bury or ignore my feelings again. but now the feelings due to introspection are overwhelming. i am afraid that distraction will make me ignore it later and bury it yet at the same time sticking to it without breaks is so overwhelming. i do not want to miss my lesson this time cause i have been living unhappy for long and this interaction was a life awakening one for me. this intense interaction brought feelings with all its spectrum from positive to negative after i have been making myself feel numb for long. i do not want to feel numb again. detaching without introspection is like giving a patient anesthesia without during the operation. 

[Artisan]

Time. More Time. and Even More Time.

Which sucks for those of us who are impatient.

[Blimblam]

i can relate.  you just found another hook in you. they are painfull but it is a good opportunity to process them. Layer after layer one step at a time.

Your T sounds like hes never been in a relationship with a BPD before.

[antjs]

i am not expecting that my therapist has been in a r\s with a BPD before but he has BPD patients and also partners of BPD as patients. i really do not get him at all. he is not a good therapist. he just listens to me and thats it. when i asked him what do i have he said "quarter life crisis". when i said what about rescuer\fixer\enabler\codependent issues ? my foo ? he denied it all. i said "but i was very aware of her damaged self. i told her i am going to "fix" you. i knew she needed to change but i was wrong about that i could change anyone." his answer was "and what is wrong with trying to rescue people ?" (what !) i said "its just wrong i do not get to sacrifice myself for others that is not right" he asked "do you always reach out to do so?" i said "no but i did so with her and that need to be addressed" he said "you did so because she was idealizing you" i said "maybe but if the idealization is the reason for this and i needed it then that opens another can of worms" he was like "anybody can fall for an idealization phase of a borderline. you are normal".  i know that i am "normal" but i have issues and thats why i go for sessions with him. anyway i figured out some foo on my own. i am finding more help with self help. maybe i will see another therapist.

[myself]

maybe i will see another therapist.

I went from seeing a T who was OK to one who was really good. Much more in-depth and helpful. Much more progress. I requested the change and am glad I did. You sound like you're really working on yourself, so, yes, another T might be better. Make sure to be honest, and hear more than just what you want to hear. This is about getting through this the best ways we can. No more holding ourselves back. If your mechanic was bad, you'd get a new one.

[Mutt]

Hi AJ,

Trust your intuition on this one if you don't trust or sync well with your therapist. You pay him money. Having said that I can say for myself from my experience I had a couple I synced with and I hung on to the last one I found.

You don't want to be a hermit. The answers you are seeking will come on their own terms. Overall things are in a better place for you than a couple of months ago? We're people and people need to connect with other people and do social things. Find what works for you.

My wife is undiagnosed with BPD traits. I lived it and my P, T, family and friends haven't. I don't have to convince people or spend time trying to explain the disorder. I understand how frustrating it is when people won't validate or believe or listen to what we have to say. I look at the negative personality traits. A good T worth hers/his grain of salt won't tell you that the following is healthy in a r/s.

~ emotional immaturity

~ emotional blackmail

~ control

~ entitlement

~ black or white thinking

~ punishing

~ blaming

~ cheating

~ distorting the truth

~ all or nothing

~ verbally abusive

~ physically abusive

~ tantrums

~ untrustworthy

~ alienating from family and friends

I'm entitled to put up boundaries to protect myself from toxic behaviors without having to justify or defend my position to my therapist or psychologist when I take "BPD" out of the explanation and present the behaviors. I'm not qualified to diagnose and professionals aren't either without the other person present. But I can explain and protect myself from toxic behaviors and uphold my boundaries irregardless if someone believed me or not.

There are two sides to every story and no one else was there when ex was acting out behind closed doors. I simply say what's going on and if they don't believe all of it, fine. My last T said she has a mental disorder of some sort when I didn't bring up BPD, I just talked and it caused less grief, anxiety and stress on me trying to explain every angle. The less of that the better. I know my truth through my experience that no one else witnessed. I'm good with that because I trust my instincts.

Give yourself a break AJ you deserve it. Your working really hard here. Validate yourself that you will learn and grow. You already have.

[antjs]

Yes mutt of course i am way better than months ago now. My therapist "diagnosed" my ex with BPD (after i have been here on the boards. I told him the story and did not mention BPD just as u did with ur latest therapist). And as i said he denied any old issues for me just ptsd and quarter life crisis. No rescuer/fixer/foo issues. I asked myself why would u believe him regarding her diagnosis while u dont believe him regarding your own diagnosis ?  How professional it is for him to diagnose her in her absence ? I asked him this question bluntly and his answer was "she is a textbook case". Anyway i dont care up on her part as u said bad behavior is bad behavior and i am the only one who lived it. The problem is me now not her.


I think i deserve a break as you said. I promise myself that i will continue introspecting after the break and will not let it go. Some questions we have take long times to give us answers. I should be ok with that. I am doing my best. I am human. I am imperfect.

[Blimblam]

Aj

I really do think any guy can fall for a pwBPD and get seriously hurt by them.  Unless one is npd or aspd. 

Borderline chicks are masters of seduction.  And then they make you feel like a god.  Who doesn't like that?   They are the most powerful addictive drug on earth. 

Do you have foo issues it seems like identified some. Foo issues are foo issues the borderline interaction isn't necessarily the hub of your life that connects all of the dots. 

[antjs]

two years ago (way long before meeting my ex) i always felt very negative about life. I bought a book called (Negaholics how to overcome negativity and turn your life around). i did not start to read this book until one month ago. the second's chapter title is "how it all happened?". its talking about that the way we talk to ourselves as adults is the same way our parents used to talk to us in childhood. it discusses that the negativity is due to foo.

interestingly, the author listed the seven most common characteristics of a dysfunctional family. it was a surprise for me when i consciously wondered how many families in the world are dysfunctional. these characteristics are so common that it is normalized in our society nowadays. here are they and how many do i have:


1- love is conditional (check)

2- there are taboo topics which must never be addressed (check)

3- an inability to discuss, deal with, and successfully solve root family problems (partial)

4- Family secrets are guarded and passed on (partial)

5- Feelings are denied, avoided, discounted and suppressed (biggest check in the whole world. sometimes they shouted at me cause i should not be feeling bad or express anger )

6- Denial is a "normal" condition for the family system (check)

7- preservation of the family system by all codependents (not present)

[antjs]

I needed the idealization phase due to my emotionally unavailable father. The intensity not the intimacy yes. I needed to feel anything. anything different. i needed this person that acted as if they totally understand, relate and accept me as i am truly am. I expressed to her stuff about me that friends of 20+ years do not know.

yes i can bargain about how smart and strong i was that i left her very early in the devaluation phase. yes i can bargain about leaving only after 3 incidents of crazy making. yes i can say she is BPD or crazy and go on with my life carrying and grooming the false self more and more. but i will hit rock bottom again later.

my parents maybe were emotionally unavailable but they did not teach me to say ok for more abuse. i did not take her abuse. but i deliberately ignored the  cause i was enjoying the idealization phase. i was very aware of her horrible history with men but i could not cognitively comprehend how can someone be with all that bad history but that good attitude. i thought she might have changed. i did tell her that i will fix her. by fixing here i did not mean to change her. i meant that i thought she has changed on her own but still has some emotional baggage. i know well that you can not change people. i was ready to deal with this emotional baggage that i thought she had due to the change that she made it herself. but of course it was all hoax. this has been the way she has been surviving  .


another thing is the amount and duration of my grieve. I have unresolved issues. i used to make myself numb for too long. the BPD experience comes into your life and make you experience the good and bad emotions on all spectra after being numb for long. i was overwhelmed. she was like switching on all my emotions after long time of numbness. i grieved a lot of unresolved issues that i numbed in the form of grieving her. that might be the case. but i am afraid if it turns out that i am just truly grieving her that tells something about me. there is definitely something wrong when you grieve a 6 week old relationship for 4 whole months. i understand there is trauma bond. but remember that confident people are sure of their perceptions and they would move on quickly after an interaction with a BPD. her non verbal expression giving me hope that she has now changed and that she really loves me that much with that intensity just for me being me i think is the deepest core trauma that she has exposed. that i do not have to be superman to self accept, self love myself.

[Blimblam]

I suggest checking out some posts by the member letting go.  Letting go gives some clear instructions on a method for processing the physical aspects of these inner traumas.

There is also a type of meditation where you focus on one particular thing... .for example a mantra you repeat to yourself in your head or your breath.  Get some prayer beads, and everytime your mind wanders count a bead. and use mindfulness to let the thoughts come and go.  eventually you will learn to focus your mind.

then when you have processed enough of those inner traumas felt as a physical sensation you will have ipiphanies. The ipiphanies will come out as a clear stream of consciousness connecting things in your life, especially the further you get into the mind focus meditation type stuff.

this practice will rewire your brain.

it was this practice that got me over my first BPDex and I cleared a lot of the things in my unconscious too.  Then once you get to a point where you feel you have cleared everything you will have to subject yourself to intentional suffering to surface more negative emotions from the subconious and process those too and you will have more ipiphanies.  

that's how you become batman, the dark knight.

[antjs]

lettinggo14 ?

[BuildingFromScratch]

Hey Antony. Unfortunately everything takes a lot of time, every emotion will pass or change. It's just hard to believe that sometimes. At one point after the breakup I remembered us skipping down train tracks in glee and honestly almost went and killed myself on train tracks. I had to force myself to believe that I was with her in some eternal place just to not kill myself. And even had to go over other difficult memories and change them (aka me fighting back when she abused me, when really I didn't). So I understand all the irrational feelings. You're not supposed to be rational all the time, you're just supposed to be good for yourself!

I think you're over analyzing things (we all do this, it seems) and having too high of expectations of yourself. You've been through hell man, you need soft pillows, delicious food, and the freedom to do whatever you need to do for yourself. Also, I do think doing positive things can help, but you shouldn't make that the whole focus of your life. In fact you might need a lot of your focus just to be on mourning right now. I know when I was laying down, utterly destroyed, doing a couple of positive things helped my self esteem and state of mind. I think what your doctor is saying is dwelling doesn't help. I think, you should just decide if YOU think your thoughts are not productive for you and switch what you're doing if you think so. Hope you feel better, good luck.

[Blimblam]

yes lettinggo14

the breath focus is the one you can actively practice and is the base for doing some real intensive work later on.

doing yoga is a good practice to get used to get your mind body connection for experiencing discomfort.

later on when your mind is more focused the real work comes into play.  That's where you challenge the authority figure in your mind.

combining that with the process lettinggo14 describes will rewire your brain.

[Blimblam]

the anxiety and knots in your stomache feeling is necessary to process the trauma... .if you wait to long and the scar heals over and pushes them back down it is harder to process the traumas of the unconscious mind.  There are a variety of methods to access them but nothing like a borderline .

[antjs]

but nothing like a borderline

Amen

[antjs]

buildingfromscratch. i think you do not totally get the picture. actually i need some dissociation contrary to what you are saying that i need some more time to mourn. i think i need the opposite. i am not having hard time to get over her. i am having hard times to get over my feelings and my old me. she has nothing to do with what is going on right now.

[Blimblam]

the breath focus mindfullnes meditations counting the prayer beads combined with the method lettingo14 describes will prepare you to "overanalyze" your mind in a healthy way. 

the problem is the mind gets stuck in loops without proper form. and the ipiphanies come out in fragments until the mind is back in focus.

also its important to take notice of the different forms of the mind wandering during the breath focused meditation.  Some of those wanderings will become pathways into the wiring of your mind

[Blimblam]

I want to add its important to accept where you are at in processing these things... .for example I spend about 30 hours a week meditating in the fashion lettinggo14 describes and I am not even yet ready to start the breath focused meditation. Ive put in about 250+ hours of meditation in since I started coming on here.

[Mutt]

Yes mutt of course i am way better than months ago now. My therapist "diagnosed" my ex with BPD (after i have been here on the boards. I told him the story and did not mention BPD just as u did with ur latest therapist). And as i said he denied any old issues for me just ptsd and quarter life crisis. No rescuer/fixer/foo issues. I asked myself why would u believe him regarding her diagnosis while u dont believe him regarding your own diagnosis ?  How professional it is for him to diagnose her in her absence ? I asked him this question bluntly and his answer was "she is a textbook case". Anyway i dont care up on her part as u said bad behavior is bad behavior and i am the only one who lived it. The problem is me now not her.


I think i deserve a break as you said. I promise myself that i will continue introspecting after the break and will not let it go. Some questions we have take long times to give us answers. I should be ok with that. I am doing my best. I am human. I am imperfect.

It's not unprofessional that he said she's BPD but it's not an official diagnosis anthony_james. Your answers may take months or years to work through everything. He may be right that her idealization was powerful and attractive. As simple as the answer is. We all need answers to make sense of our experiences, but there is a point where it becomes unhealthy. He sounds like he is concerned with that and asked if you should keep the mind busy and give it a break. Rome was not built in a day anthony_james.

Members will attest and I can say the same - I never had a honpeymoon like it, bar none. I expected that feeling to continue but it stopped and I recall the day she ceased paying attention to me. I kept expecting that woman to come back for 7 years. It was a fantasy - it is what it is.

Why haven't you pulled the trigger on deciding to get rid of your T? He may be a source of a lot of your anxieties. You may find a weight lifted off of your shoulders when you tell him it's not working for you, I need to find another T. Are you afraid of hurting his feelings? You don't want to recount your history with someone new? At the end of the day you pay this person hard earned money, spend it wisely.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Anthony, maybe I did misunderstand a bit. I still repress stuff myself, unwinding it is a slow process, no one can fully face reality, except maybe some Buddha, . I found that for me, I had an attachment to fully letting her go, fully healing, fully facing reality. And that kept my anxiety levels really high. I just do what I can now and I've accepted that as a human I was never meant to fully or perfectly do anything. As for my giant false ego that got amplified by 10000 by the relationship and my ridiculously bad self esteem. It was like being a slave to myself honestly. I'm glad I've given up a lot of that. But god damn it was hard to give up. Is this what you're talking about when you mean "your old self".

[antjs]

Yes mutt of course i am way better than months ago now. My therapist "diagnosed" my ex with BPD (after i have been here on the boards. I told him the story and did not mention BPD just as u did with ur latest therapist). And as i said he denied any old issues for me just ptsd and quarter life crisis. No rescuer/fixer/foo issues. I asked myself why would u believe him regarding her diagnosis while u dont believe him regarding your own diagnosis ?  How professional it is for him to diagnose her in her absence ? I asked him this question bluntly and his answer was "she is a textbook case". Anyway i dont care up on her part as u said bad behavior is bad behavior and i am the only one who lived it. The problem is me now not her.


I think i deserve a break as you said. I promise myself that i will continue introspecting after the break and will not let it go. Some questions we have take long times to give us answers. I should be ok with that. I am doing my best. I am human. I am imperfect.

It's not unprofessional that he said she's BPD but it's not an official diagnosis anthony_james. Your answers may take months or years to work through everything. He may be right that her idealization was powerful and attractive. As simple as the answer is. We all need answers to make sense of our experiences, but there is a point where it becomes unhealthy. He sounds like he is concerned with that and asked if you should keep the mind busy and give it a break. Rome was not built in a day anthony_james.

Members will attest and I can say the same - I never had a honpeymoon like it, bar none. I expected that feeling to continue but it stopped and I recall the day she ceased paying attention to me. I kept expecting that woman to come back for 7 years. It was a fantasy - it is what it is.

Why haven't you pulled the trigger on deciding to get rid of your T? He may be a source of a lot of your anxieties. You may find a weight lifted off of your shoulders when you tell him it's not working for you, I need to find another T. Are you afraid of hurting his feelings? You don't want to recount your history with someone new? At the end of the day you pay this person hard earned money, spend it wisely.

Mutt i do not see this therapist anymore. he dismissed me in may and said i was ok and its about time that i am over her. i scheduled an appointment with him during mid July cause i had panic attacks in the gym if you can recall. When he knew that i am still probing and spending too much time here and reading more about BPD and about what might my issues be. He said "you remind me of myself the first year i studied psychology. you just feel that you have everything that you read about." he said that thinking about this had become an obsession for me and it is a vicious cycle. i seek answers of why i am still feeling bad----> doing something that reminds me of her (this website and a lot of books i read)----> feeling bad that i am still thinking about her ----> seeking answers why do i still feeling bad. he advised me to get busy with my life as i am unemployed and spending nearly everyday with myself thinking and reading. i was supposed to report back about the panic attacks but i did not. it has subsided finally. i do not want to see him again. he just listens to me. I can talk to a friend if thats all what this psychologist can offer.

[antjs]

Anthony, maybe I did misunderstand a bit. I still repress stuff myself, unwinding it is a slow process, no one can fully face reality, except maybe some Buddha, . I found that for me, I had an attachment to fully letting her go, fully healing, fully facing reality. And that kept my anxiety levels really high. I just do what I can now and I've accepted that as a human I was never meant to fully or perfectly do anything. As for my giant false ego that got amplified by 10000 by the relationship and my ridiculously bad self esteem. It was like being a slave to myself honestly. I'm glad I've given up a lot of that. But god damn it was hard to give up. Is this what you're talking about when you mean "your old self".

yes it is. the low self esteem that needs a mask in every social interaction. even with myself. i was ashamed and scared to sit by myself alone. i always found escape through going out with friends and booze.

[Blimblam]

Honestly

I talked to a t on a crisis hotline and he gave me a bunch of coping tools for the panic attacks.  And the only thing that worked is surrendering to the physical feeling in my chest and letting my mind kind of shut down. 

If you remember when I arrived here I had pretty sever anxiety attacks lasting about 80% of every waking moment.  Heck I even dreamed about them. 

When I finally let the feeling take over I couldn't even really lift myself off the floor for 2 weeks and my mind was barely concious but quiet. 

Now I spend about 3 hours a day doing this which includes whenever I feel the anxiety start to rise.  If I'm am driving I will pull over and lay down.  This may sound extreme but it worked for me. 

I am going to keep the practice of meditation for about 3 hours a day and see where it takes me.