i had a small but noteworthy realization...

[DreamFlyer99]

Talking to my grandson and his girlfriend last night I realized my uBPDh has much to offer to others:

relationship wisdom,

life wisdom,

leadership skills,

compassion... .

just not for me.

This seems pertinent to my life and decisions.

[123Phoebe]

Talking to my grandson and his girlfriend last night I realized my uBPDh has much to offer to others:

relationship wisdom,

life wisdom,

leadership skills,

compassion... .

just not for me.

This seems pertinent to my life and decisions.

[Mutt]

Talking to my grandson and his girlfriend last night I realized my uBPDh has much to offer to others:

relationship wisdom,

life wisdom,

leadership skills,

compassion... .

just not for me.

This seems pertinent to my life and decisions.

I'm sorry DreamFlyer99. That is so invalidating  

It's a disorder triggered by intimacy and it's why they push the people they love so far away.

[woodsposse]

Talking to my grandson and his girlfriend last night I realized my uBPDh has much to offer to others:

relationship wisdom,

life wisdom,

leadership skills,

compassion... .

just not for me.

This seems pertinent to my life and decisions.

I'm sorry DreamFlyer99. That is so invalidating  

It's a disorder triggered by intimacy and it's why they push the people they love so far away.

I concur.

[DreamFlyer99]

Thanks all,

yep, invalidating, yep, triggered by intimacy... .why don't I feel better?

I guess it's a good thing to know and accept even.

[123Phoebe]

Thanks all,

yep, invalidating, yep, triggered by intimacy... .why don't I feel better?

I guess it's a good thing to know and accept even.

Do you feel in the mood to talk about it?  Or is it something you'd rather just let sit for a while?

[DreamFlyer99]

Well, I'm a talker... .to say the least! So I don't need to sit on it. Talking helps me process.

[123Phoebe]

Well, I'm a talker... .to say the least! So I don't need to sit on it. Talking helps me process.

Well, then what are you waiting for?  There are lots of ears around this joint

[DreamFlyer99]

So true.

I guess that while I was still at home and in the auto-pilot of life with a pwBPD making dinner and side-stepping landmines, I still thought I could make a difference from my end. I'm a Stayer at heart, plus being an awesome enabler helped me stay.   (OH the certificates I have on my wall for my "skills"!)

The more I realized how much grace i'd given him over the years, and how spotty his attention to me had been plus his total lack of grace for me, I guess I started stepping back enough to see things for what they were in the r/s. And they were super unequal. (my T may have had a hand in this growing understanding, just a tad.) i'd remember a time he was particularly kind and supportive, but then i'd think "but wow he couldn't even just hold me when my sister died." So while I could remember the good I had to finally look at the bad... .besides the crazed rages and badgering me into a mess because he had to "win." I tried telling him, "marriage isn't a competition." Clearly that made no sense to him, and he kept doing it.

One of the biggest hurts I recognized was that i'd come into our marriage knowing we both had some childhood issues, so of course we'd understand each other, right? But over time when the rages became more frequent, I started seeing the pattern--he'd badger me and badger me and follow me to badger me some more when I tried to leave the room to get some peace. And with fibromyalgia I would try to get myself out of this emotional mess to save myself the physical and emotional pain and fatigue that would come along with his rages for the ride. And he could and would, no matter what I said or however many times I said "please stop!" with tears in my eyes, keep pushing till i'd finally snap. Then i'd sit hunched over telling myself what an idiot and a loser I was and wish for death. I couldn't admit how dark I went for years, even though he clearly saw I was devastated. i'd be crying, and in the earlier days he'd try to comfort me, and then he just quit. And then he'd act out some more and make me feel sorry for HIM for cryin' out loud! And then i'd feel guilty that I wasn't stronger.

So as those occurrences came closer together, and then realized i'd been actually dissociating to deal, I started telling him, "this is what is happening to me when you do this," in a non-emotional, factual way. But it kept happening.

Even after I left it would happen to me if he was particularly invalidating to me, or using his confrontational attitude, and I wasn't strong enough to protect myself. I was still pretty FOGgy. And then I learned about Complex PTSD (which has some weirdly similar things to BPD) and saw that what was happening was that he was indeed pushing me to the point that I couldn't cope in my adult self anymore and would flip into the tiny terrified child I was in a house full of crazies, and realized just how awful this actually was--that he was not only hurting my adult self, but re-injuring my sad little child self. HURTING ME TWICE OVER.

I couldn't see the good in him at all anymore, i lost respect for him (and felt guilty about that!) and it's only been with the distance I've had away from him these past 5 and a half months and putting huge restrictions on his conversations with me that I've been able to look at the good things there are about him, the things I knew before. But with that came The Significant Realization that he has no compassion or any of that for me, and has only had that on limited occasions. And that when he says he loves me it doesn't mean the same thing I mean when I say that to him. And I saw we would probably never have a truly reciprocal r/s where I am as valuable to him as I had made him to me.

And that even with his therapy and anger management classes he's taken since I left, we will probably be done soon, forever. All except for the times we need to talk about children, grandchildren and pets. And finances.

And that I will likely be alone for the rest of my life as far as the healthy version of that sort of r/s, and that sucks. And I already know that "it's better to be alone than with the wrong person" and all that stuff, but it still feels pretty horrifying at the moment.

[123Phoebe]

And that I will likely be alone for the rest of my life as far as the healthy version of that sort of r/s, and that sucks. And I already know that "it's better to be alone than with the wrong person" and all that stuff, but it still feels pretty horrifying at the moment.

:'(

I'm kind of grasping at straws here, but does the thought of being totally alone in the world freak you out? Like you need a protector?  Someone to totally look out for you...   Someone who really cares...

I get that feeling sometimes, is the reason I'm asking.  It is a horrifying feeling.  

Or is this about hot sex?  

I'm sorry if that's offensive.  I'm one of those people that tries to keep things light while in the darkness; it's a coping mechanism.

I hope you're feeling a little better today!

[DreamFlyer99]

i'm with ya, 123Phoebe! keepin' it light as much as possible. And hot sex wouldn't be a bad addition to my life!   (SOMEtime before I die... .)

Yeh, it feels weird to think of being alone because I never have been... .there have always been roommates or children or somebody. And yet the idea of being by myself in an apartment or something where I could have my doggies sounds wonderful and restful and I wouldn't be working to keep my emotional boundaries in place while balancing that with the needs of others, etc etc.

But i'm a r/s person, so I can't imagine being alone.

[Mutt]

You raise a good point with not feeling better. I didn't mean to invalidate that - I'm sorry DreamFlyer99.

besides the crazed rages and badgering me into a mess because he had to "win." I tried telling him, "marriage isn't a competition." Clearly that made no sense to him, and he kept doing it.

I can relate. It's not about being put into a one down or one up position. I agree marriage is not a competition. I felt like a parent around the end with her rages - a transference from a scene she was replaying with her parents in her teens. I heard through her parents there were issues. Likely this is when the disorder emerged. I agree with you and I felt like her idea of what a marriage was something entirely different than what I thought. I has many marriage counseling sessions that were frustrating and it kept getting more frustrating - we were never on the same page.

To her it was always about winning - about being right. It's detrimental to your self esteem, emotional well being and happiness. It harbors resentment. It's not a good place to be in a marriage to feel resentful towards your partner. It's not my idea of a marriage but I did believe in "through good and bad , in sickness and in health" I didn't realize the bad would be this bad with very little good.

we both had some childhood issues, so of course we'd understand each other, right?

I thought the exact same. Our backgrounds were both difficult. I felt a kinship - a perfect match.

One of the biggest hurts I recognized was that i'd come into our marriage knowing we both had some childhood issues, so of course we'd understand each other, right? But over time when the rages became more frequent, I started seeing the pattern--he'd badger me and badger me and follow me to badger me some more when I tried to leave the room to get some peace. And with fibromyalgia I would try to get myself out of this emotional mess to save myself the physical and emotional pain and fatigue that would come along with his rages for the ride. And he could and would, no matter what I said or however many times I said "please stop!" with tears in my eyes, keep pushing till i'd finally snap. Then i'd sit hunched over telling myself what an idiot and a loser I was and wish for death. I couldn't admit how dark I went for years, even though he clearly saw I was devastated. i'd be crying, and in the earlier days he'd try to comfort me, and then he just quit. And then he'd act out some more and make me feel sorry for HIM for cryin' out loud! And then i'd feel guilty that I wasn't stronger.

So as those occurrences came closer together, and then realized i'd been actually dissociating to deal, I started telling him, "this is what is happening to me when you do this," in a non-emotional, factual way. But it kept happening.

I'm so sorry DreamFlyer99  emotional abuse, fibromyalgia and you were hard on yourself and felt guilt on top off all of that. You felt backed into a corner for many years. That's tough.

You've had 5 months apart and time to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. He has moments that he shows compassion but do you think it could be he is embroiled in his issues in the moment - he lacks showing compassion and empathy? There is another member here oceanheart - she was a recovering BPD and she described it as such. She had compassion and empathy but couldn't show it when she was dysregulated. Having said that, it still invalidates us, our voice isn't heard and we're not acknowledged as a partner but as inferior. We can't do anything right and we're the reason for their pain and a failing marriage- projection. It's a lot to heap on someone isn't it?

I felt like I was treated with great vitriol directed at something completely different. It was still very painful, it was more painful that my hands were tied and I could not get through to her. Period.

After the split I was angry and didn't see the grey areas or the good times. It took a few months but I realized that the pendulum didn't swing to the extremes all the time - there were moments that were genuine but I was looking at the black and white areas. I wasn't centered.

Are you feeling anger towards him after this recent realization? Granted I have not been in a marriage for the same length but you have posted a lot of the negative aspects of the marriage. I understand the trigger with his treatment of others triggered feelings of hurt - pain and suffering. Anger can be a mask for pain.

[DreamFlyer99]

Aw, no problem Mutt, I didn't feel invalidated by that---besides, you are a mere preschooler in the world of invalidation, my H could invalidate with 3 words or a smirk! So it takes more to get me down.

I think that I hid the bad so long because i'm a pretty positive person for the most part and so I've enjoyed my life for the most part, and then when I stopped lying about my r/s all this true ugliness just poured out like slugs (I hate slugs.) So I was just angry (but quietly) about him, and now that I've had the distance I can see that his decisions in the marriage were mostly about him and not us. I realize that he's basically disabled in his emotions so how can I hold that against him, his inability to see my good, to hold me as a precious partner or even a friend?

I was struggling with the whole concept long before I left about how he had all these great qualities, how could I be so unhappy? But then in the last few days I think I just felt somewhat of a peaceful "huh, I mean all the badness to him, i'm his trigger, and he's able to do these great things, just not for me. And I need them too." Plus how long would I wait? 1 year? 5? It's possible he'll never be capable of having the kind of r/s I need to have, with a grownup, and with someone who at MINIMUM appreciates me for who I am.

Anyway Mutt, thanks for saving my fragile self-esteem of having poured my heart out and having only one person respond.

[Mutt]

Thanks DreamFlyer99 and it's too bad you didn't get more perspectives from others. There's tremendous value with collegial harmony. I can tell you have gumption. An admirable quality.

Speaking from my experience from my marriage and life in general. The good times are never long enough and the bad times are always longer than we like. I had the attitude of sticking it through the bad times as difficult as they were. I took my vows seriously it's also a part of my personality. Never give up. Having  said that i was hurt when that wasn't reciprocated and the ex didn't do the same. I realized that I was expecting too much, she is limited to the confines of a disorder and cannot grow unless she really starts working on her core issues. It's the reality of it. It is what it is. You and I are both on the same page.

It was her narcissism, it's always her needs and a sort of self centered field around her. It's still there after seperation and my kids suffer because of it. The bf is put on a pedestal (no longer a fact) and they always take a back seat after separation. Very destructive and painful effects to those around her. Your H sounds very narcissistic and on the Queen / Witch behavioral spectrum ( sounds strange to describe as such for a male?) Punishing, controlling and narcissistic? It sounds like the spitting image of my ex. I had a fraction of that experience compared to what you have. My heart really goes out to you    You are a good woman, compassionate, wise, funny, nurturing. It's too bad those qualities are overlooked. I recall being punished on top of punishment with added punishment on top of that 

Your welcome DreamFlyer99. I understand going through patches of feelings / thoughts, working through that and then likely moving on to something else. Seperation is hard. It's a lot to think about the marriage and feeling sad that the possibility of ending it is looming. Feelings of anxiety, fear and the possibility of being alone by ourselves is also frightening. I stayed in my marriage for some of those reasons because as bad as things were, I was accustomed to it and more afraid of having to start all over again.

[DreamFlyer99]

OH EM GOODNESS,

seriously, that's one of the exact things I said to my T was "i don't give up."

My mother was likely the Queen/Witch as well, I realized that when I recently read that article. See how this works? Couldn't please her but occasionally but kept on trying trying trying until she died. But never mind, I had a husband already in place where I could continue my efforts!

At least in the earlier days the rages were further between and there was more to enjoy, but this past ten years has been on a steep decline. And I had seen the same with my mother--when things had taken a bad turn in her life everything with everyone else went to he**.

He had the nerve to say to me a month after i'd left the house that he had made promises and so had I. But my promises didn't involve getting run over repeatedly by the Hate Train. And yet the familiar is at least familiar, right?

Our children and I had started making jokes about how self centered my h's "conversations" were--my daughter and I could be talking about something that happened at her job that day and then suddenly we would be listening to a loong description of HIS job... .

I may have to print out your lovely description of my qualities! And I shall firmly claim "gumption." Thank you for that, it was wonderfully supportive. 

df

[Mutt]

I learned a big lesson about myself DreamFlyer99 and I'm not implying for you to quit. Not giving up is an over-arching theme in my life.

My ex tought me that I can't move every mountain. The disorder is bigger than me and bigger than anything I ever faced. It was like swallowing a mule. I had to quit, my resilient nature and determination was causing me unhappiness and suffering and it was hurting the kids. I was pouring myself into something that soured after a year and a half and I kept at it for another 5 1/2 years. I did the best I could, what else can I do? I know my truth my heart was in it but I wasn't getting a fraction back of what I was putting in. I'm worth more than that. I had to cut her loose - she was poison to my bloodstream.

You have a lot of good qualities DreamFlyer99 sometimes it takes an outside perspective to have it reflected back. Despite having a Queen / Witch mother and husband there's a woman with a heart of gold that's under appreciated.  From my experience, sometimes you have to lose everything to gain everything  

You are welcome and thank you as well for the conversation. If anything don't give up on you and what you own - your qualities.

[DreamFlyer99]

That was lovely Mutt--

maybe my h has been in a state of dysregulation for years, can it work that way? He's treated me like i'm a bully for years, even if I just said "don't you think it would be a good idea for us to get some help with communicating?"

My only time of "peace" in the Eye of the Storm was found by never talking deeper than the surface, never disagreeing. I read something once that said that when the pwBPD did actually treat us with kindness and compassion that it was when they were in the mood to, not just whenever we needed it. That would explain the on again off again nature of his support over the years.

What you just said about not getting a fraction back of what you were putting in hits home for me as well. And I got so weary of being told that I did nothing. "Poison to your bloodstream" sounds about right.

"Like swallowing a mule"? Now there's a picture!

I'm just tired, and facing so many decisions ahead.

[Mutt]

You're welcome DreamFlyer99 and i understand feeling like you are in limbo after the seperation. You have a lot of time left before you can reconcile? I'm not sure if I was more emotionally exhausted after or during the marriage. I still had to make serious decisions if the marriage was really done. Had I learned her behaviors, communication tools perhaps I would of stuck it out - I likely would but i can't change the past it is what it is.

So in this final separation year and a half ago she is not self aware and doesn't want to get help. MC doesn't work - period. My marriage wasn't a long series of devaluation phases. I'd check us into MC ( i can't count how many times we went) but tgose tools don't work - it's assuming both partners aren't mentally ill. After MC sessions she would go back to idealization but the cycles grew shorter and shorter. What she needs is to get diagnosed and to get therapy DBT or schema to start working on her core trauma and learn to self soothe etc. If she truly is BPD. I can't do that for her and she's surrounded by a narcissistic family - they all bury their heads in the sand. I chose not too but I choose to stop enabling. They use to call that tough love? I wrote myself out of the equation - a series of persons in her circle that look the other way. That's my point of view though. I care for her. I don't love her anymore and she crossed a line that can't be fixed and I'm out of the FOG. I can't go along with her dissociations anymore. There's someone else out there that will appreciate me for simply being me. I wish her well in her journeys - our journey together as tragic as it was is done.

I lost everything. My wife, friends, 80% possessions, in-laws, bankruptcy, all of it but I found the truth about myself and what matters. I own that tenacity but apply it to things that matter being the voice for the kids in court for example. I'm not above the disorder but i can certainly minimize it's collatoral damage by being a rock for the little ones. I validate myself and trust my intuition and the good qualities that I own things that were weakened during my period in the FOG.


I matter and I have to be happy with me before trying to find that happiness in someone else. Money and materialistic needs are less worth than emotional health  and I chose to work on my kids emotional needs, it can effect you for decades. I want to lessen the malarkey dad had to go through for them above all. I want them to mirror my example with another woman to be the template for them later on. It may or may not work but kids do watch you at all times and they mirror you.

Sometimes answers come on their own terms. Mindfulness relieves anxiety and stress that your reality right now is that your going through a lot emotionally and a lot of decisions

[123Phoebe]

I'm just tired, and facing so many decisions ahead.

That's the worst part, DreamFlyer, the decision making(s) stage; I feel for you.  I think my exH was a classic narcissist.

I can relate to so many other things you've talked about too... . Like the lying about the r/s and the slugs   I didn't tell anyone how truly awful it was, just silently endured; our friends were actually envious of our great marriage!  Makes me sick thinking about living such a lie.  I threw up every day for a while there.  When it came right down to it, he was no more interested in meeting my needs than the man on the moon.  I finally asked him, "What would you do if I left?"  He said that he'd move to a different state and follow his dream...  Go baby go disco inferno!  I had spent so much time fretting and worrying myself sick about what he'd do and he was already secretly planning his escape! It got uglier after that even, as we had to live together while the divorce was going through... . He was all happy planning his move la la la, while I worked to make ends meet.  :)ark days.  Ew yuck, there is no love loss for him.  I do wish him well though... .  It took a while to not be hurt that some of 'our friends' sided with him.  They think he's great!  He does have good qualities and things to offer... .just not for me as a wife; our values are entirely different.

But, it's never easy.  People stay in relationships for all kinds of reasons too, and I wouldn't judge anybody for their reasoning or decisions.

When I asked myself if I would go on a first date with him all over again and knew that the answer was 'No way if HELL'!  I knew that I had my decision.  If there was even a little hesitation there for whatever reason, I might've tried harder... . But when my best reason after really thinking about it was that he pumps the gas most of the time?  I knew there was problem.  I am woman hear me roar, I can pump my own damn gas!

Take your time DreamFlyer... . Nobody said you have to do anything right this very second, right?  The most important thing is to take care of you, whatever that looks and feels like to you

[DreamFlyer99]

Thanks both of you.

I guess I thought that if my family or friends knew me for who I am in their lives that they wouldn't fall for any of his charming bs... .but then I find some of them swallowing everything about how he says he's so different now, he's done so much WORK now... .He can be oh so charming! I guess he kinda forgot to be charming with me over the past decade... .

i'm going through a trauma workbook and was reading about flashbacks and how to deal with them. Mostly mine are emotional type flashbacks where something triggers the heck out of me, and I realize "Oh--i'm still being triggered. Can't live with the source of the triggers and emotional flashbacks."

Mutt, I like the idea of using my "gumption" for good rather than evil.  If i'm gonna expend the energy, I hate to think about expending it all on something that promises me nothing adequately improved from where I've been.

Phoebe, you're right! I have to decide nothing right now. I guess my biggest decision doesn't have to be about this marriage, it needs to be (as my T tries to tell me) about me learning how to take better care of myself. I think I need to find somewhere else to stay though because my son in law gets stressed out easily by anything extra in their house, and I am extra! I got myself really depressed by looking for places to rent or even a room to rent in this area, and CA stinks for that! So ridiculously expensive, I may need to rethink how I feel about non-insulated apartments in not-my-favorite neighborhood and stay with my friend because at least it would be affordable.

i'll be fine, i'm always fine eventually. This "in-between" place is not my favorite neighborhood either!

[LilHurt420]

My uBPDh is a teacher (who many in the school look up to), a mentor, his colleagues all believe he is a saint, he gets told that there needs to be more men like him in the world.  To his friends that do not know him well he is great.  He talks, he listens, he helps out whenever needed.

Yet at home and to the few friends that have known him well for a long time he is a monster.  I have watched him lose all his best friends.  His best friend from high school has just stopped talking to him without warning (it's been months now).  Another best friend he lost contact with for almost a year and now talks to here and there just to say hi. 

I often yearn for others to see what he really is.  Others who don't know the true him often tell him how great he is.  This fuels him to believe it and that it must be me that is the problem.

It's infuriating.

[DreamFlyer99]

Ohhh lilhurt, that makes sense! When they're affirmed in so many ways by outsiders and then we aren't that way because they're being mean to us then I know my H tends to think I am the one at fault, i'm being unfair... .Interesting thought.

My h doesn't have friends outside of his work life really, and I don't know where the couple of ones I thought he had went honestly.

It's such an odd thought to me that my h can know so much good stuff, but the way I trigger him because of his own insecurities seems to shut down that part of his brain as far as his dealings with me. It's super hard for him to be the one in the wrong, he really really wants me to own my part in our problems, and for me that means I had lousy boundaries and let things go on for too long.

Family who are nearby have seen his tantrums, but we have some overseas and they of course don't see these things, so I think they think i'm blowing it out of proportion.

It's different being on the receiving end of their rages. How do you handle it when he rages?

[thereishope]

Talking to my grandson and his girlfriend last night I realized my uBPDh has much to offer to others:

relationship wisdom,

life wisdom,

leadership skills,

compassion... .

just not for me.

This seems pertinent to my life and decisions.

I can relate.  I've even admittedly felt jealous when uBPDh compliments my teenage daughter when she does something well... .Sad!  I feel as though the invalidation of the BPD has made me feel extremely insecure and I don't like who I have become... .It's like his disorder has brought out the WORST of me... .  Although I know it had to happen so I can realize MY OWN issues and deal with myself.  The r/s is another story and doesn't look too promising... .

I'm sorry for the devaluation you have felt.  I know how badly it hurts. 

[DreamFlyer99]

Thank you so much for that, thereishope... .

I feel like a needy child when I do anything cool--"hey look! I cleaned the bathroom! See how shiny the faucet is? That was all me." So pathetic!

You're right about the path to finding your self-esteem and sense of who you are being the healing one. What you said about his disorder bringing out the worst in you I feel is pretty darn common in these relationships. it's so easy to react rather than respond to some of their behavior, right?

[LilHurt420]

Ohhh lilhurt, that makes sense! When they're affirmed in so many ways by outsiders and then we aren't that way because they're being mean to us then I know my H tends to think I am the one at fault, i'm being unfair... .Interesting thought.

My h doesn't have friends outside of his work life really, and I don't know where the couple of ones I thought he had went honestly.

It's such an odd thought to me that my h can know so much good stuff, but the way I trigger him because of his own insecurities seems to shut down that part of his brain as far as his dealings with me. It's super hard for him to be the one in the wrong, he really really wants me to own my part in our problems, and for me that means I had lousy boundaries and let things go on for too long.

Family who are nearby have seen his tantrums, but we have some overseas and they of course don't see these things, so I think they think i'm blowing it out of proportion.

It's different being on the receiving end of their rages. How do you handle it when he rages?

I handle the rages all different ways, none of which seem to have ever worked.  I used to fight back and try to show him with logic where he was wrong but that made them worse.  Then I just listened and didn't say anything but that made me feel worse and it would just prolong it for hours and hours of him putting me down even though he's the one with the major issues.  Lately I've put my foot down and stopped even listening and trying to cut them short or ignoring them once he has started, but that just causes the silent treatment for days and only puts off the inevitable.

Now that I'm pregnant I don't know how to handle the rages in a safe way.  I've been removing myself from the situation (last week after coming home from planning my grandfather's funeral he started raging about me not being home to feed our son... .so I just left and slept at my cousins.  It only prolonged the rage until I came back in the morning and couldn't escape it).

I honestly don't know how much longer I can take this... .I feel myself going crazy also.

Today I bought a book about Caretaking and BPD/NPD... .so I'm hoping reading this gives me some perspective.

[thereishope]

Thank you so much for that, thereishope... .

I feel like a needy child when I do anything cool--"hey look! I cleaned the bathroom! See how shiny the faucet is? That was all me." So pathetic!

You're right about the path to finding your self-esteem and sense of who you are being the healing one. What you said about his disorder bringing out the worst in you I feel is pretty darn common in these relationships. it's so easy to react rather than respond to some of their behavior, right?

Yes... .It's been "interesting" for lack of a better word... .maybe "HORRIFYING" works better? ... .seeing how this relationship/marriage has changed me over the past year... .Let me preface this by saying again that I know it NEEDED TO HAPPEN for me to GET REAL with myself, and to truly see my own faults/weaknesses for what they truly are... .so I can address them and become a stronger and better person... .!

In dealing with the BPD though, I see how it has been draining the entire ME out of me... .I used to be strong, very much leaning on God and His truth, trusting Him and willing to go out and try to conquer the world for GOOD AND RIGHT and all that... .to be a blessing to everyone in my life... .Those were my aspirations... .  Enter BPDh and everything got tossed to and fro... .Once idealized by the "love of my life", now invalidated in horrifying, cruel and confusing ways... .blew everything I thought about him/us/this marriage out of the water... .and as I went from trying to gently and lovingly reason with him about how I wasn't meaning that or doing this or had no intention of offending him like XYZ... .and NONE of that worked... .in fact it exacerbated the situation ALWAYS... .slowly over time I became a quiet, somber, silent, unthinking, compliant waif... .floating around the house like a ghost of who I used to be... .not even sure who I ever was... .HOW OH HOW COULD THIS MAN, THIS BPD, THIS MARRIAGE DO THIS TO ME?  And ALL I KNOW NOW is I could NEVER EVER EVER SURVIVE LIKE THIS FOREVER... .forget even one more day... .although I have tried and prayed and sought answers and tools all the while my mind is telling me he's wrong/I'm wrong/he's wrong/I'm wrong... .

Seems crazy to write... .but I'm CERTAIN you all can relate to what I'm saying... .Also, over the years, I have tried to address any character flaws of my own as they have surfaced... .I am AMAZED to feel as though this last few years dealing with h's BPD has made me WAY WAY WEAKER HUMANLY... .my faults seem stronger in me and worse than ever... .Has anyone else felt this?

I stand here now... .trying to make that decision for health, physical, emotional, mental for me and my kids (thankfully from previous marriage)... .but still playing that ping-pong game in my head... .justifying his loving moments... .surely it's not as bad as I feel inside all the time, etc... .   

Can anyone relate?

[DreamFlyer99]

I handle the rages all different ways, none of which seem to have ever worked.  I used to fight back and try to show him with logic where he was wrong but that made them worse.  Then I just listened and didn't say anything but that made me feel worse and it would just prolong it for hours and hours of him putting me down even though he's the one with the major issues.  Lately I've put my foot down and stopped even listening and trying to cut them short or ignoring them once he has started, but that just causes the silent treatment for days and only puts off the inevitable.

Now that I'm pregnant I don't know how to handle the rages in a safe way.  I've been removing myself from the situation (last week after coming home from planning my grandfather's funeral he started raging about me not being home to feed our son... .so I just left and slept at my cousins.  It only prolonged the rage until I came back in the morning and couldn't escape it).

I honestly don't know how much longer I can take this... .I feel myself going crazy also.

Today I bought a book about Caretaking and BPD/NPD... .so I'm hoping reading this gives me some perspective.

I actually became a fan of the silent treatment, it gave me some days of quiet!

My thoughts on how to handle the rages, especially since you are pregnant and protecting 2 children, would be a couple of very important things-- have you read the information about Safety First and How to take a time out? Those are both really important things to understand.

Safety first info helps you make a plan for when you see the dark clouds on the horizon and know it's time to pack up and go to higher ground, even if that's as temporary as going to a public place with your son like a coffee shop for a while. It's good to have a plan where you know you have somewhere to go like a friend's or family member's house if you need to remove  yourself.  The time out one gives you more ideas of things you can do and how to let them know you're removing yourself until you can both have a calm discussion.

I've been in a biiiig time out for 6 months now, and it's given me a great deal of clarity about the safety of my situation. Emotional safety is a big part of safety, not just physical.

Yes... .It's been "interesting" for lack of a better word... .maybe "HORRIFYING" works better? ... .seeing how this relationship/marriage has changed me over the past year... .Let me preface this by saying again that I know it NEEDED TO HAPPEN for me to GET REAL with myself, and to truly see my own faults/weaknesses for what they truly are... .so I can address them and become a stronger and better person... .!

I'm glad you have that outlook on the situation, I would have much preferred my "GetRealOGram" to come as a brief note by mail... .

In dealing with the BPD though, I see how it has been draining the entire ME out of me... .I used to be strong, very much leaning on God and His truth, trusting Him and willing to go out and try to conquer the world for GOOD AND RIGHT and all that... .to be a blessing to everyone in my life... .Those were my aspirations... .  Enter BPDh and everything got tossed to and fro... .Once idealized by the "love of my life", now invalidated in horrifying, cruel and confusing ways... .blew everything I thought about him/us/this marriage out of the water... .and as I went from trying to gently and lovingly reason with him about how I wasn't meaning that or doing this or had no intention of offending him like XYZ... .and NONE of that worked... .in fact it exacerbated the situation ALWAYS... .slowly over time I became a quiet, somber, silent, unthinking, compliant waif... .floating around the house like a ghost of who I used to be... .not even sure who I ever was... .HOW OH HOW COULD THIS MAN, THIS BPD, THIS MARRIAGE DO THIS TO ME?  And ALL I KNOW NOW is I could NEVER EVER EVER SURVIVE LIKE THIS FOREVER... .forget even one more day... .although I have tried and prayed and sought answers and tools all the while my mind is telling me he's wrong/I'm wrong/he's wrong/I'm wrong... .

Yep, I learned too that reasoning was simply the worst idea ever for me to try! BPD behavior is exceedingly wearing, especially when we use our normal logic and apply it to the situation. Their sense of self is entirely different than ours, and they come from a place of fear of abandonment and then often act to push us away.

I have to say that you've experienced a rapid descent in his behavior indeed. I'm thinking that just shows the extent of the disorder in his life... .and without professional help things tend to continue on a downhill slide with lots of broken promises and with us having "hope" in the form of "wishful thinking" that he will change... .if only I do this, if only I show him that... .Doesn't work. We can only have hope in the actions we take, the things we have actual control over.

I think I've gone through a lot in my faith as well, and had to question many of the "churchianity" responses that have lived in my head, in turn learning to look at who I am as a child of my Creator and what He would want for me... .

Seems crazy to write... .but I'm CERTAIN you all can relate to what I'm saying... .Also, over the years, I have tried to address any character flaws of my own as they have surfaced... .I am AMAZED to feel as though this last few years dealing with h's BPD has made me WAY WAY WEAKER HUMANLY... .my faults seem stronger in me and worse than ever... .Has anyone else felt this?

I stand here now... .trying to make that decision for health, physical, emotional, mental for me and my kids (thankfully from previous marriage)... .but still playing that ping-pong game in my head... .justifying his loving moments... .surely it's not as bad as I feel inside all the time, etc... .   

Can anyone relate?

Ohhh many of us can absolutely relate! I had to start looking at the calm parts of our life together as "eye of the storm" times, because the storm was definitely gonna return. Then I was prepared, no longer thinking he'd stay in the positive behavior. I too would think "wow he was so dismissive when my sister died, but there was that time when he was tender when I had the miscarriage... ." and make myself crazy. I just couldn't understand the wide swings in his feelings toward me. But there they were, right in front of my face if I would just look. And then for me the bad times became way more frequent than the good.

For both of you, LilHurt420 and thereishope, I want to say clearly that we can learn and implement tools and skills and be satisfied that we tried to have better boundaries, we tried to communicate more effectively. And I guess most of us would want our relationships to work out so we don't feel like a fool for being in them in the first place! But people do change, and when the damage to our own emotional health and physical health becomes bigger than the good, we have to be willing to reevaluate. And to think about the effect being around these behaviors of our partners will have on the children we love and want to protect. I got so caught up in trying so hard that I forgot to even look at how I was doing, and by the time I stopped to look I had a chronic pain and fatigue syndrome and was so emotionally beat down I wasn't much good to anybody.

It's the weighing out the positive and the negative that can show us what's going on. If we want to stay and work on changing our end of the dynamic in the r/s then okay, let's do it. But if you are in danger? You've got to be willing to look at the bigger picture.

Please be safe! You know i'm gonna be worrying now about both of you!

Keep me posted, okay? Please?

df

Try to remember-- the pwBPD's feelings of the moment = Truth to them. That's why it's so changeable. Don't take it personally, that just wears us out more.

AND SAFETY FIRST, always.

[thereishope]

Thank you for your response DreamFlyer99!  I appreciate your insights and am coming to find the same things to be true that you expressed so well! 

I guess I feel bad because I believe uBPDh is trying to "do good things" around here, and for me and the kids... .but the BPD has me somehow "beaten" inside... .  I feel it has slowly caused my health, mostly mental, to deteriorate... .I've realized the complaints his BPD makes "are not about me"... .I've put tools into practice, SET, boundaries, etc... .But none of this changes that I just feel "defeated" when he's around... .waiting for the unwarranted comment about how I could do things "right"... .Trying to make sure "he's feeling ok"... .I walk around taking care of the house, meals, kids and he consistently finds something out of nowhere to comment on that, whether I am trying to stay out of FOG or not, makes me totally feel as though he thinks he needs to let me know how to do things, and that my actions are displeasing to him regularly.  When confronted with this, he says he isn't doing this, but that his "suggestions" are for my good, so my work-load will be lighter, so that the kids won't run all over me, etc... .But the truth of the matter is... .I am striving to do the best I can... .am doing a pretty good job at it... .and he simply finds something to complain about regarding my performance on a regular basis... .I am a Christian, but embarrassingly enough don't really even care about the fact that we are married... .I just want peace.  I want to be able to listen to God, go out and serve others, and be free from this unnecessary negative dark cloud hovering over my every move... .I actually am thinking (and have had Bible passages and sermons telling me lately) that this is actually the OPPOSITE of how we should be treating each other as Christians!  We SHOULD be acting like Christ, offering grace, mercy, strength, encouragement, comfort, love, support to each other!  Life is hard for ALL OF US!  We should NEVER EVER do ANYTHING to make it harder for each other!  And my kids need to see REAL CHRISTIANITY too... .  Knowing this... .I have big, hard, horrible decisions to make.

[DreamFlyer99]

Indeed, thereishope--

Imagine being my age, 60, and only in the last few years starting to say, "wait--this can't be right!" Oh poor df, such a slow learner... .

I'm also a Christian and had put the same trips on my head of "work it out" "divorce isn't an option" and other stuff that doesn't actually come from scripture. I've said for years and years that one day his negativity was gonna kill me, I just couldn't figure out how to separate my brain from it. And I know that's the "secret" to handling the unasked for "advice" or complaints is to be able to separate out in our brains that it isn't really about us, it generally goes back to their feelings about themselves.

I really wanted to be able to make it work, even though I was seeing my emotional needs going unmet. Keeping family together, yunno? When I read the article on here about Healthy Relationships I realized that I had totally lost sight of what our marriage should look like, i'd gotten so reactionary. I knew it should be more than it was at 30+ years, but i'd lost that I should be able to share things mutually and have him care about me like I cared about him, and for our r/s to not be a competition. It's hard.

The one thing I've seen with my grown children is that they are desensitized to dysfunction, but that's because they grew up in it and I didn't have the proper tools back in the day.

I still feel guilty about wanting to be away, it feels so selfish... .

My T has really helped me through these years of awakening, do you have somebody to talk to like that?

[thereishope]

Indeed, thereishope--

Imagine being my age, 60, and only in the last few years starting to say, "wait--this can't be right!" Oh poor df, such a slow learner... .

I'm also a Christian and had put the same trips on my head of "work it out" "divorce isn't an option" and other stuff that doesn't actually come from scripture. I've said for years and years that one day his negativity was gonna kill me, I just couldn't figure out how to separate my brain from it. And I know that's the "secret" to handling the unasked for "advice" or complaints is to be able to separate out in our brains that it isn't really about us, it generally goes back to their feelings about themselves.

I really wanted to be able to make it work, even though I was seeing my emotional needs going unmet. Keeping family together, yunno? When I read the article on here about Healthy Relationships I realized that I had totally lost sight of what our marriage should look like, i'd gotten so reactionary. I knew it should be more than it was at 30+ years, but i'd lost that I should be able to share things mutually and have him care about me like I cared about him, and for our r/s to not be a competition. It's hard.

The one thing I've seen with my grown children is that they are desensitized to dysfunction, but that's because they grew up in it and I didn't have the proper tools back in the day.

I still feel guilty about wanting to be away, it feels so selfish... .

My T has really helped me through these years of awakening, do you have somebody to talk to like that?

Don't beat yourself up now... .hindsight stinks... .Enjoy being thankful that you see more clearly now, and can have a healthier life and experience, even though I'm sure it is insanely hard changing things so drastically after those years... .BUT you CAN DO IT, and the whole bright horizon is open up before you now!... .God will do great things for you and with you, I can tell... .You seem like an amazing, loving, encouraging woman! 

I really have come to the conclusion (last week with my parents) that I need to find a T.  God has pretty much confirmed the idea through you and another member on this board's suggestions... .(Thank you!)