The arguing is less... the guilt has escalated

[Cipher13]

Been a long while since I posted. Things haven't changed much. The arguing and fighting is less. Actually its not less its has just turned into soemthing else. Guilt. While she has used it to gether way for years now it is coming on hard and heavy now. I am ashamed to say I do nothing to stop it and infact enable it I think.

She doens't like my sense of humor anymore and wants me to be 100% serious. It hurts her feelings when I am not serious. I can no longer play the guitar (even if she is in the same room) becasue I am ignoring her. I have to be romantic 100% of the day and do things for her or I ma ignoring her. I have ot watch what words I say as most of them are hurtful in an average day to day conversation. I have to invite her to everything I do, ie going to store, walking the dog, leaving the room, or I am being mean or ignoring her. I can not have difference of opinon or say no to her request as it is rude or crule. If she is in a bad mood I can not be happy nor be upset. If she wants to do something so do I or I am boring and don't want her to have fun.

I wonder what would happen if I talked to her liek she talks to me... .Tell her I hate her. Tell her I don't feel like she is making me love her. She isn't doing things to make me feel special... .All things hse tells me almost daily every night... .even after sex.

[Wrongturn1]

Good to hear from you, Cipher. 

Sounds like she is trying to control you with guilt.  It only works for her if you choose to give in.  Sounds like you have given her more than a reasonable person would, and she is still not happy.  Not much you can actually do about that.

I seem to recall you moved to the "leaving" board awhile back... .did your wife do something to change your mind back to "undecided"?

[Cipher13]

I seem to recall you moved to the "leaving" board awhile back... .did your wife do something to change your mind back to "undecided"?

Sometimes I wish there was a "want to leave and don't want to stay but can't pull the plug" board. Thats where I  am. I think I picked this board because I am still tryign to keep this together enven though it is not making me any happier with life. She tells me eveyday she doesn't liek me yet then in the next breath wants me to romance her on the spot. My mind can take this.

Last night liek a littel child she asks me for a story. So a make up a quick line that is 100% based on fact about our dog. Kidding aroudn a little in a fun way. I was read the riot act for not being sinsere and affectionate and to "KOCK THAT S**T OFF!" I guess I was beinga complete jerk. I'm telling you this is what is now completely common. I'm sick of being told I don't love her right. I don't do this right. I am a jerk for say or doing or not say or not doing something that if only i read her mind at that very second I would know.

My problem is I bow dow to this and let her win!

[Wrongturn1]

You said: "Last night liek a littel child she asks me for a story. So a make up a quick line that is 100% based on fact about our dog. Kidding aroudn a little in a fun way. I was read the riot act for not being sinsere and affectionate and to "KOCK THAT S**T OFF!" I guess I was beinga complete jerk. I'm telling you this is what is now completely common. I'm sick of being told I don't love her right. I don't do this right. I am a jerk for say or doing or not say or not doing something that if only i read her mind at that very second I would know."

Wow, that's some ridiculously unreasonable behavior by your wife.  I think I'm to the point now where if my wife said that to me, I would (figuratively) kick her out of bed and make her sleep in the guest room.  And it certainly could happen b/c mine asks me for a bedtime story occasionally as well - strange that grownups would ask for this, might be related to the disorder.

Would you be any less happy if you started standing up to her instead of accepting that kind of abuse?  I know you would likely have world war III type conditions to deal with, but I wouldn't see that as necessarily any worse than what you are dealing with now... .your current situation sounds pretty miserable.   

[edited to fix the quote section]

[Cipher13]

Sorry sometimes I type without re-reading and checking spelling. I might be switching boards now. For lunch today while going to get her soemthing she asked for she asked for a divorce. That was different. I did not replay to that. Becasue I wanted to say sure where do I sign.

Reason for this. She asked why I didn't do the dishes this morning. I kind of for get them and kinda left them becasue I made the dinner and always make th ediner then always clean up. She isn't working right now. I said I was hoping that isnce I made dinner you would mayeb have helped and washed them last night. Then... ."I wanta divorce. You are a lazy pieces of s**t."

[Surnia]

Yes, the guilt - she is a master in pull all the strings to control you and one thing to control somebody is make him or her feel guilty. And you on the other side are in a way easy to control, you are easy get trapped in guilty feelings. This is my view on this.

I can so relate, Cipher.   I was there too a while ago. I had exactly this kind of things like the dishwashing example.

I think the big question is: What can help you to make you stronger in this?

Its okay not making dishes. Period.

The sentence "you are a lazy piece of s*" is clearly beyond. What would you do when a coworker of yours would say this?

[Cipher13]

The sentence "you are a lazy piece of s*" is clearly beyond. What would you do when a coworker of yours would say this?

Good point. I know that they wouldn't and see me for what a actually am. I thought the level of guilt laid at my feet was too much before last night. Last night was the worse I have ever felt about myself. She was able to to actually aknowledge that her line of communication to me is harsh and crule and irrational... .and yet was still able to rake me through the coals. I felt worthless and would not have cared 1 bit if the roof of the house fell on my head at that point. It would have been a welcome relief.

If she asks for a divorce again wether its in person in an email or text then I am excepting and agreeing to it. I'm cashed out. :'(

[Surnia]

If she asks for divorce, you would agree - what about you initiating it? What prevents you? Failure? Being the bad guy?

Feeling guilty means you did something wrong. Perhaps you can take a closer look and reframe it. Like: Okay, I feel guilty about the dishes. I did the meal. And the dishes can wait - its nothing to feel bad about for myself. But - she want me to do it. Thats a struggle for me. I want so bad fulfill her expectations... .will I ever be able to do this? Probably not... .

[Cipher13]

Oh I don't feel guity about the dishes or anything like that. Its when she berates me and brings up things that happened years ago that she can't let go and have made a larger issue out of over time.

what about you initiating it? What prevents you? Failure? Being the bad guy?

I have never tried to initiate it. I have always tried to keep it together even though I do really want it to be over with. I think becasue I have fought to keep the relationship it will show I'm weak or that I never really wanted it to succeed. Thus teh bad guy. Even thought I'm already the one that is being blamed. It wouldn't be like that woudl be a new thing.

[Surnia]

Oh I don't feel guity about the dishes or anything like that.

I meant it more like an example.

Fill in what ever you want. The other things from years ago and try to reframe this for yourself. We all have to live with our "mistakes" from the past. We are not perfect or heroes, so sometimes we do things we are not proud. As humans we can learn from this. And we can say: This is the past, not now.

If she can't really go over it, than you are probably not the right partner for her anymore.

Could be its more like a strategy to bring guilt in - some people are really good at bringing up their partner's the weak points to ride the guilt horse.

I have never tried to initiate it. I have always tried to keep it together even though I do really want it to be over with. I think becasue I have fought to keep the relationship it will show I'm weak or that I never really wanted it to succeed. Thus teh bad guy. Even thought I'm already the one that is being blamed. It wouldn't be like that woudl be a new thing.

I can totally relate with it. Its not easy to come to the point to say I give up on this camel trophy thing to make it better. For me it was the most difficult decision in my life and it was really a turn around, taking control and responsibility for my own life.

[Cipher13]

I recieved an email from my mom this morning. It was pretty much the email that I was fearing. A relative is having health issues. Only having secret email contact with my family for the last 8 years is bad enough but now the worst part is happening.

If I want to see my family I have to be the adult and say to her this is what I want to do.  So my question is this.  Since her deepest darkest fear has been surounding my parents. That they will kidnap me or convince me to leave her. She has never liked them. She claims they didn't eve like her. But in reality she was never aroudn them enough to for any real connection or even lack of a connection. Her dislike of them was there from the get go even if she never met them.

[Cipher13]

I need help. Through talking to a friend I am keeping myslef in a realtionship I want no part of. How does that happen? Why does it happen? I'm so confused. I had a converstion with wife via text at lunch. Projecting that everything is my fault to fix and that when I am tryign to d the right thing its wrong. I'm not making her feel good, I don't know how to be honest and a real husband to her.

Whats wrogn is I've put more effort to being what she wants than I ever did trying when we first started dating.

[MammaMia]

Cipher

Are you better off with her or without her?  When you feel you have "hit the wall" and nothing is worth saving, it is time to consider that question.  You could try a separation initially which would help you decide how to proceed.

To do nothing is to accept and condone her treatment of you. 

[Cipher13]

With her I am never going to be happy unless she gets better. I can only change me and she (although she does not know it) can only change her. I don't know what I am tryign to save at this point.

[quoteTo do nothing is to accept and condone her treatment of you. ][/quote]
Exactly. I am doing nothing and expecting things to change.

[MammaMia]

Food for thought Cipher

PwBPD are not in control.  Your wife, in all likelihood, is not capable of change.  It may just be time to take care of yourself, and positive changes will not come without added guilt and manipulation.  It is very important that you learn to deal with and overcome these factors.

You can be strong. You can fight to be happy with a positive future.  It is all up to you.

[Surnia]

There is a lot going on, Cipher!

First of all, your family. You get another chance to just go and see your family - just because you want do it. This is what counts.

Just do it. No matter how. Talking before like an adult would be nice. Perhaps it will lead to not going at all. Perhaps just go after work and tell her through phone and afterward turn it off. Don't search for the perfect way to do it - just do it.

As for putting efforts to make things better through doing what she wants - you will never succeed. Its not about doing the right thing and than it will end. This is your expectation. She keeps you busy in ever direction. You avoided your family for 8 years now. She should be happy. No, its not enough for her. Her demands are irrational. So time to try something new.

Your question why? Could be that you learned some of those behaviors in your childhood. Being there for others, being the good guy and not being so good doing things for yourself. I would focus more on how you can change this by just doing it differently.

You may think now, what Surnia is writing here, easy said and written, but... .I know how difficult it is, Cipher. The first time I did something really against his demands in my now gone marriage, I was so frighten, it felt horrible. I survived it. And I got a lot of strength through it.

[Grey Kitty]

One bit of advice about seeing your family now. DO IT.

One more bit of advice. Don't ask your wife. You know she won't grant you permission, or give you her blessing.

Either tell her you are seeing them (in advance), tell her you saw them (after the fact), or just don't tell her. (If she asks or interrogates you, I'd suggest telling her then.)

This is important for you.

 GK