Help please. I am very broken and crushed... again. I've decided to leave

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I haven't been on for quite sometime.  My h was diagnosed with passive aggressive compulsive disorder two months ago.  I was hopeful that with the diagnosis and weekly therapy, anger management classes, Dr visit and therapist visit that things would get better.  Things seemed to help a little bit but his abusive anger episodes continue weekly.  Lasting anywhere from 3-7 days usually ending when I was completely suicidal (hate to admit that but it's time I faced the truth).  When he was normal he confessed to the fact that he needs to punish me for making him angry and won't stop until i'm crushed.  he admitted that he is in a state of non-empathy, no consequence, win at all cost rage.  Because of his passive aggressive it is subtle to others but at home its torturous.   I have a therapist I am going to see this week and have help staying on track.  Today I need help gettin thru the day.

The last time he stayed out of his mood it lasted 8 days and I was so happy for him and our family.   I had the flu during this time and he was so awesome and caring and couldn't do enough for me. I saw how he struggled an cried and worked to stop it.  On the morning of the 9th day he had the look in his eye like today's the day I get my relief.  It's been 3 days and same course of punishment.

Help me understand why I stay and why it is so difficult leave.  His dr told him it is learned behavour and he can stop.  Please is there any hope or should I just get out now.   

[sking]

I haven't been on for quite sometime.  My h was diagnosed with passive aggressive compulsive disorder two months ago.  I was hopeful that with the diagnosis and weekly therapy, anger management classes, Dr visit and therapist visit that things would get better.  Things seemed to help a little bit but his abusive anger episodes continue weekly.  Lasting anywhere from 3-7 days usually ending when I was completely suicidal (hate to admit that but it's time I faced the truth).  When he was normal he confessed to the fact that he needs to punish me for making him angry and won't stop until i'm crushed.  he admitted that he is in a state of non-empathy, no consequence, win at all cost rage.  Because of his passive aggressive it is subtle to others but at home its torturous.   I have a therapist I am going to see this week and have help staying on track.  Today I need help gettin thru the day.

The last time he stayed out of his mood it lasted 8 days and I was so happy for him and our family.   I had the flu during this time and he was so awesome and caring and couldn't do enough for me. I saw how he struggled an cried and worked to stop it.  On the morning of the 9th day he had the look in his eye like today's the day I get my relief.  It's been 3 days and same course of punishment.

Help me understand why I stay and why it is so difficult leave.  His dr told him it is learned behavour and he can stop.  Please is there any hope or should I just get out now.   

[fromheeltoheal]

His dr told him it is learned behavour and he can stop.

  It is learned behavior for you too, and you can stop.  When we minimize or tolerate the bad, in hopes of getting a few nuggets of good, and then accentuate those, we are reframing what is real.

As yourself:

Do you trust him?

Does he treat you with respect?

Does he meet your needs on a consistent basis?

Are you ignoring his actual behavior in favor of your hopes and dreams?

I wasn't married to mine, but plenty of folks here were, so more input is surely on the way.  Take care of you!

[Tyrwhitt]

How does he enact his punishment?  Silent treatment, rage?

I just read an article link from this board about gaslighting and narcissistic behaviour. It reminded me of how I got here, and denial can go on for years. Wanting to fix, succeed a t making it work, can go on for years. I'm 21 years in my situation and only stopped making excuses two years ago and only started coming out of denial about being abused two months ago.

For some, it's a road they move on from quickly and mend and for others, it's a long, painful one. Easy to receive advice to leave, but you can tell yourselves a lot of things to justify staying. I can bear witness to that.

[patientandclear]

Sking, have you spent time reading on the Staying board?  If your H has BPD, it isn't as "simple" as "it's learned behavior and it can be unlearned."  Personality disorders are characterological -- embedded in the very essence of the person, not just behavior choices.  While the behavior can change, that doesn't happen just because the pwBPD just up and decides to change one day (I am writing that to myself as much as to you -- I still have some vestiges of that magical thinking when I feel anger toward my ex for continuing to be his destructive self.)

It happens either because the person's partner establishes very consistent consequences for certain behaviors and self-interest cues the pwBPD to make different choices after a while (this doesn't always happen no matter what the partner does, but undeniably there is some evidence on the Staying board that if the partner is very consistent in applying boundaries, e.g., leave the room or the house when rages occur, assert you will return the next day or in 5 hours or whatever, assert you will not remain present for hurtful comments, sometimes, those behaviors sometimes lessen.  Much less effective for internalized raging, i.e., silent treatment and withdrawals/leaving).

Or it (behavior change) happens because the pwBPD commits himself to targeted therapy, not just general therapy for depression or anger or other conditions.  :)BT or scheme therapy seem the most effective in providing tools the pwBPD can choose to use to be less destructive of relationships.  Making this choice is very difficult and pretty rare.  As I understand it, these treatments don't change the underlying feelings that drive BPD behavior -- they just assist the pwBPD in handling those feelings differently and less destructively.

Other than those two ways that your H's behavior might change, you are faced with the option of radical acceptance that he does this and will continue to do this.  Hoping it will just change is magical thinking and can cause you a lot of pain and disappointment when it continues not to happen.

If your H is not on the verge of seeking targeted treatment for BPD, and if he is BPD, you might spend some time on Staying if you haven't, and commit yourself to how to set and enforce boundaries.  It will make your situation better, whether or not it saves your relationship.

[Tibbles]

Sking - It's tough. I really identify with your question and why is it so difficult to leave. Best thing I can say is to plan how to leave way before you go. First time I left it was emotionally charged I couldn't cope by myself, spent 5 days constantly crying a mess and went back. Took 6 year leave again - but I'm out and been living in a rental for 12 months. During that 12 months we  tried counselling and its all over. ___ scared tonight and every other night about how I am going to do this but I know I'll be better for it. Hang in there one way or another you'll find the strength to make changes and stay or leave. Keep reading this site - its given me lots of courage. Hang in there x x x

[BorisAcusio]

It happens either because the person's partner establishes very consistent consequences for certain behaviors and self-interest cues the pwBPD to make different choices after a while (this doesn't always happen no matter what the partner does, but undeniably there is some evidence on the Staying board that if the partner is very consistent in applying boundaries, e.g., leave the room or the house when rages occur, assert you will return the next day or in 5 hours or whatever, assert you will not remain present for hurtful comments, sometimes, those behaviors sometimes lessen.  Much less effective for internalized raging, i.e., silent treatment and withdrawals/leaving).

I would never play therapist with a borderline romantic partner, as it is going to cost your sanity with effects ranging from nothing to minor improvements. The acting out dimensions of the disorder could be addressed relatively fast with therapy while members on the staying board draining themselves for years only scratching the surface. Taking few aspects from DBT and apply without the proper knoweledge and setting will only perpetuate the pain of the participants. Unfortunately, that is what the Staying board is about.

[BorisAcusio]

Double post

[patientandclear]

I would never play therapist with a borderline romantic partner, as it is going to cost your sanity with effects ranging from nothing to minor improvements. The acting out dimensions of the disorder could be addressed relatively fast with therapy while members on the staying board draining themselves for years only scratching the surface. Taking few aspects from DBT and apply without the proper knoweledge and setting will only perpetuate the pain of the participants. Unfortunately, that is what the Staying board is about.

I am no longer on the Staying board ... .for a reason   I believe by the time you're ignoring a large portion of what your SO has to say, choosing to believe the nice parts and not the nasty parts, and being exposed to a large quantity of abusive language or behaviors, too much damage has been done to have the kind of relationship that makes slogging through life with another human being worthwhile to me.

But I wasn't married, and also, my ex didn't rage, he left.  That's a lot harder to manage with Staying tools.

I don't agree that the Staying tools of defining and enforcing boundaries are "playing therapist."  Maybe validation and SET (some of the communications tools for "not making it worse" are more like that. I always found them awkward because they felt so artificial.

But boundaries are different and many Staying board members have seen at least some behavior change from their SO wBPD after enforcing appropriate boundaries.  Boundaries are essentially natural consequences for destructive behavior.

Boundaries are decisions we make for ourselves, not to change someone else.  We say "you can do X; heck, you can do whatever you want.  You're a free person.  I'm not arguing with you about it or crying in front of you about it or asking you to care about my pain.  However, if you DO do X, I will be leaving for the evening.  I will be back in the morning."  Or "I'm glad to discuss this topic with you but not willing to be screamed at.  I'll be available to continue talking about this issue in 3 hours after I take a break."

The other person can always resuming screaming in 3 hours.  But over time, the consistent application of consequences may cause them to make other choices purely out of self-interest.

I am only delving into this because Sking seems to have lots of raging in her marriage and use of boundaries is a good stopping point if she is finding it hard to leave but intolerable and miserable to stay.

[kc sunshine]

Wow, I can totally relate to that "look in the eye" line. Like you know they are going to let go. My ex pwBPD had that too-- she'd whip her head around and give me that look. I'm sending you love and strength and wishing for peace for you.