Taking Responsibility, Dissociative Email?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My uBPDx emailed me something last week, which she never does. We or I keep it to stuff related to the kids. She emailed my personal account, not my work email which we normally use. It was a link to a mega preacher and "secrets to a happy marriage." Her short message was, "I wish I had known this. Live and learn."A mistaken text I can understand, but I can't imagine that was mistakenly sent to me instead of one of her friends. After all that happened in our 6 year r/s, I am still stuck that she seems to treat it as if it were some game.

That's it. Waif? FOG? I don't know why she would send that out of the blue like that. Yes, I foolishly responded with a short redirect talking about parentification, how to deal with Waifs, referencing my mom, and also offering short advice in a way in dealing with her Waif/Hermit mom. She was talking to me about it a few weeks ago when she called me about an inappropriate anger outburst towards our son which scared her.

No answer yet. I should have ignored it.

[Turkish]

My uBPDx emailed me something last week, which she never does. We or I keep it to stuff related to the kids. She emailed my personal account, not my work email which we normally use. It was a link to a mega preacher and "secrets to a happy marriage." Her short message was, "I wish I had known this. Live and learn."A mistaken text I can understand, but I can't imagine that was mistakenly sent to me instead of one of her friends. After all that happened in our 6 year r/s, I am still stuck that she seems to treat it as if it were some game.

That's it. Waif? FOG? I don't know why she would send that out of the blue like that. Yes, I foolishly responded with a short redirect talking about parentification, how to deal with Waifs, referencing my mom, and also offering short advice in a way in dealing with her Waif/Hermit mom. She was talking to me about it a few weeks ago when she called me about an inappropriate anger outburst towards our son which scared her.

No answer yet. I should have ignored it.

[Waifed]

Hi Turkish

She was probably experiencing a moment of clarity. You were all good in her eyes at that moment. Is she beginning to turn you all white again?  Who knows but what we do know is that she probably can't sustain it. That is what is so painful about this illness. I hope you are doing well

[Turkish]

Hi Turkish

She was probably experiencing a moment of clarity. You were all good in her eyes at that moment. Is she beginning to turn you all white again?  Who knows but what we do know is that she probably can't sustain it. That is what is so painful about this illness. I hope you are doing well

Thanks Waifed, hope you are well, too.

Moment of lucidity... .that is interesting. Maybe so. She did have a few, despite how she spun things to everyone else. I wonder if she posted that to FB? I'm not going to ask someone to check... .

She has painted me white as a father (she kind of has to). I was out of town, but she texted me pics of the kids, bringing them to my church. She never went there, but continued to take the kids on most weekends. She now goes to another with my [religious hypocrite] replacement.

I didn't answer the text. Then she called, and she usually doesn't to just chat (like never). She said D2 asked to call me, so I had as much conversation as I could have with a 2 year old "Hi Daddy!" I talked to their mom a little bit about S4's school. (The kids have yet to ask to call her when they are with me).

I bite my tongue all of the time, and try to use the tools here (BIFF, SET)  as much as possible to keep our r/s within clear boundaries, and also conflict free for our kids' sake. The legal stuff seems done as far as custody, so I could "open up" a little, but why stoop to that level? What's done is done. I need to focus on me and the kids.

I'm afraid I am still a bit stuck as long as she is with the replacement ("homewrecker". At least last week I felt my anger fade quite a bit. It's 6 months after she moved out, so I guess that is something. Next week is the anniversary of her "We're done!" conversation, where two weeks later I found out about the replacement.

[seeking balance]

I should have ignored it.

Why didn't you?

[Turkish]

I should have ignored it.

Why didn't you?

Because I still feel the desire to "parent" her. And yes, I know that's not a healthy dynamic.

She painted me black romantically, but still keeps me as the father figure (for her!) with regard to figuring some things out with the kids. Overall, my boundaries are good when she tries to engage in normal conversation. I keep it focused on "business" regarding the kids. This is the only time I've slipped up through email since last September.

She reached out to me a few weeks ago concerned about her outburst towards our son, which I agreed was inappropriate spanking, anger, and FOG towards him. Here it gets dicey, since I'd rather she reach out to me about these things rather than me find out later as I did some other things (though I'd rather she discuss this with her T... . I will suggest that next time). She then segued off my talk about parentification about what she experienced and still does with her mother. That is where I should have drawn the line. We used to talk about such things, so she feels a certain comfort that I know her. I stifled my instinct to be snarky and said, "why don't you ask your 24 year old boyfriend about these things?" It wasn't an angry conversation at all, and it was mixed in with business regarding S4's schooling, and her worries about him being bullied by some kids in her complex. I gave her some advice about that, too.

Overall, she keeps playing Waif to show me that she is being "a better mom." I neither validate nor invalidate that. I do my best to ignore.

[Waifed]

Another thought that comes to mind is that the idealization stage of her current relationship is beginning to crack or maybe they had a fight and to soothe maybe she is reaching out to you for comfort. It is so hard to speculate and as we all know it is probably fruitless to do so.

It has been 11 months for me and I have finally reached a pretty constant feeling of indifference for my former waif. I am fortunate that I do not have to communicate with her in any way and that expedited the processing. I am sure that constant communication slows the healing process but I know you will get there sooner than later! She has put you through the ringer for many years and that trauma bonding doesn't go away overnight. You have taken the high road throughout which is so admirable.

[BacknthSaddle]

I'm going to tell you a bunch of things that you already know. Turkish, you have an excellent understanding of this disorder and it's patterns, and you have been a great help to me personally. So, you are aware then that as long as you make yourself available to parent this woman, she will use you for that purpose. The details of "white" or "black" are insignificant( as with all her relationships, this is and always will be about gratifying her needs. My ex has done this to me for some time, calling me her "best friend," and what she wants is to be parented. This is particularly heightened when there is trouble with a new boyfriend. And, given that her mother is cold, withholding, demeaning, and distant, and that her father is dying of cancer, I will be used even more for this purpose if I allow myself to. Indeed, every conversation we have, no matter how hard I try, ends up with me parenting her. So I'm not going to make myself available for this purpose anymore, and will instead attend to my own needs.

Of course, I have the luxury of benign able to go full NC, which you do not. But going forward, I doubt it's a good idea to discuss BPD with her, discuss waif traits, discuss her mother, discuss anything other than things related directly to your children. She WILL reel you back in, because these kinds of conversations make you feel value, and they may even lead you to believe that she understands and appreciates your value, which she does not and will never.

One last point: I don't know if this is happening bc things are souring with the replacement or not. But, you know as well as I do that they WILL sour eventually, she will get bored of him or he'll get bored of her, and at that point you'll be susceptible to this type if approach. Additionally, I think you are particularly ripe for triangulation, not just bc of rescuer tendencies but also bc it is obvious that you don't like this dude (you frequently refer to him as a narcissist, a hypocrite, home wrecker, etc). I have no doubt that he sucks as a human, but when she's in distress, she can use your feelings about him to reel you back in.

You've done a truly marvelous job maintaining boundaries under difficult circumstances. You know you shouldn't have responded to this email, that that was you allowing your boundaries to be violated, but you did as we all do (as I have countless times), and now you have to re-establish the boundaries. Don't worry about her motivation, because ultimately it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The outcomes will always be the same with this woman. As myself says: even if she gives you some validation, "paints you white" as it were, it is not sustainable. And it never will be.

[BacknthSaddle]

PS - I apologize for misidentifying Waifed as myself

[seeking balance]

I should have ignored it.

Why didn't you?

Because I still feel the desire to "parent" her. And yes, I know that's not a healthy dynamic.

Let me see if I can ask this in a better way - what emotionally was triggered in you that you reacted in (your own words) "not a healthy dynamic"?

Facts as I can tell:

- you are very well read on BPD and patterns, thus reacting by you seems to hit a raw emotional core.

- she gave you an easy out in ignoring; not about kids, not to the agreed upon email address, not even really relevant to your life at all.

- you posted here, so it seems like you want to change your reactions to her

I have found that before anyone can really change, they have to understand their emotional triggers - so what emotional core did this specific email to your personal account trigger in you?

[Aussie JJ]

Seeking,

I sort of get a lot of what your saying about where does the emotion come from.  For me, it comes from my relationship with my mother.  I had to always please her, meet her needs as her oldest son.  I have that same reaction to the vast majority of situations in my life, personal in particular, make sure I meet the other persons needs and damn my own.  When I cant keep up with the constant demands I shutdown, emotionally I cant keep up with the person's wants and desires so I shutdown.  I don't know if this is dissociation however I can see that I am doing it now, I am recognising the situations that put me in this mindset. 

To change them, I have to recognize when they are happening as well. 

Turkish, for me, I have always been the emotional caretaker in relationships, my needs have never been real a part of any relationship.  If you look at it as a transaction then I am constantly on sale for 99 cents while giving them a new pontiac or mustang in return for that 99 cents.  I cant speak for you, however there is a 'need' for you to still look after her in this case.  In this transaction what are you getting out of it?  She is giving her guilt to you, her pain, her shame.  By replying, you are accepting those bad facets and giving her validation for those feelings.  It isn't a balanced transaction.  I have had so many of these throughout my life that I don't know anything else, it is the normal for me to put myself into this position. 

Feeling horrible saying that as doing so indicates that I have to stop caring for others and start putting myself first in these situations. Quite horrible making that change however the rest of my life is ahead of me and I want to have some of my needs recognised and met.  Is it a bad thing for that?

Why in this instance do you feel bad about making this problem hers, why do you have to take it on? 

[Turkish]

I should have ignored it.

Why didn't you?

Because I still feel the desire to "parent" her. And yes, I know that's not a healthy dynamic.

Let me see if I can ask this in a better way - what emotionally was triggered in you that you reacted in (your own words) "not a healthy dynamic"?

Facts as I can tell:

- you are very well read on BPD and patterns, thus reacting by you seems to hit a raw emotional core.

- she gave you an easy out in ignoring; not about kids, not to the agreed upon email address, not even really relevant to your life at all.

- you posted here, so it seems like you want to change your reactions to her

I have found that before anyone can really change, they have to understand their emotional triggers - so what emotional core did this specific email to your personal account trigger in you?

The trigger was that it felt so flippant, as if it were a game. Like she told me in one of the very few conversations we had about things while she was still living with me, "well, we had a good six year run!" As our babies who were months away from being anandoned half time by both parents were sleeping in the other room.

I still sruggle with what my T told me, that a lot of my anger stems from me expecting her to be who she is not. When the mirror fractured, it was quite shocking. I don't think it was all mirroring. She did want what we had for a while. As you said, I know the "why" now. Logically, that is.

I used SET the other week when she started up her old pattern of texting at night, "are the kids ok?" I responded that this was the last response, and that neither I nor the kids were responsible for her feelings." Said nicer, of course. She responded with "I know you are not, as I am not responsible for yours." I never asked her to be, and have never checked up on the kids on her time. I didn't respond to her statement. She thinks how she thinks, and I won't change that.

[myself]

I still struggle with what my T told me, that a lot of my anger stems from me expecting her to be who she is not.

She thinks how she thinks, and I won't change that.

Are you more upset with her, or yourself?

[seeking balance]

The trigger was that it felt so flippant, as if it were a game.

Putting this into your feelings, you felt... .unimportant, disposable?  This is tough, I know, honestly it hurts... .but digging into these feelings is what most of us had to do to let go, move on and not react.

Can  you see how, maybe you reacted to still be important... .even as a parent to her, you are getting self worth and value?

I still sruggle with what my T told me, that a lot of my anger stems from me expecting her to be who she is not. When the mirror fractured, it was quite shocking.

Your mirror of how you saw yourself through her eyes?

[Turkish]

The trigger was that it felt so flippant, as if it were a game.

Putting this into your feelings, you felt... .unimportant, disposable?  This is tough, I know, honestly it hurts... .but digging into these feelings is what most of us had to do to let go, move on and not react.

Can  you see how, maybe you reacted to still be important... .even as a parent to her, you are getting self worth and value?

The initial reaction was anger. My short paragraph follow up... .perhaps what you said. Maybe my pride. Before I found out about the cheating, she didn't listen to her T or her mom, the two voices of wisdom. I knew she wasnt going to listen to me, just those who tickled her ear to make foolish decisions.

I still sruggle with what my T told me, that a lot of my anger stems from me expecting her to be who she is not. When the mirror fractured, it was quite shocking.

Your mirror of how you saw yourself through her eyes?[/quote]
Not quite. She saw me better than I did myself, and other than the dysregulatory periods, the idealization always came back. Everybody sees me better than I see myself. She mirrored my dream, but it was hers too. To have a stable family, the on neither of us had . Unfortunately, she mirrored her parents' r/s in the last year more, with the gender roles reversed (though she spun it the opposite to her friends, she admitted to becomng like her dad in the last lucid weekend we had before I finally called it done).

myself: I am not sure. I don't think now I'm angry at either of us. Maybe it was equal. I posted so you all could help center me. Thank you!

[Mutt]

I wish I had known this. Live and learn.

Turkish here's my advice. My exes words cut deeply. It took me time to see actions speak louder than words. I apply that to everyday life.

What if you compare her actions and words? Does it match? Do you feel trust?

[refusetosuccumb]

Turkish, for me, I have always been the emotional caretaker in relationships, my needs have never been real a part of any relationship.  If you look at it as a transaction then I am constantly on sale for 99 cents while giving them a new pontiac or mustang in return for that 99 cents.

AJJ, thank you for putting this so eloquently.  This is what I have done in the past as well.  I struggle with it now.  I know I"m worth a million bucks and a man should be so lucky to win my heart and value what I bring to the r/s without taking advantage of it.  I've only had 3 long term r/s in my life.  My first love was a great guy, but it was beginning of high school and neither of us wanted to be tied down so we parted as friends (healthy).  My second r/s was grades 11 until my first year of university.  He was one messed up dude and I found myself wanting to "save" him.  Same with my ex (16yrs together).

I need to fix me before I ever embark on another r/s.  Both my job and my kiddos fill my nurturing side.  As my therapist has pointed out, I need to stop taking on partners as projects. 

[Aussie JJ]

It really causes me a huge amount of pain recognising this with myself.  How much have we allowed ourselves to be cheated.  Our decision as well now that we are aware of it. 

[Turkish]

I wish I had known this. Live and learn.

Turkish here's my advice. My exes words cut deeply. It took me time to see actions speak louder than words. I apply that to everyday life.

What if you compare her actions and words? Does it match? Do you feel trust?

Actions. And no, I don't trust her. I still want to trust her in some things, but I am not sure I can trust her in anything, like last month when D2 broke her collarbone and her mom only called me on the way home from the emergency room, and then said that she wasn't sure if she was supposed to tell me   

I know what the behaviors are and most of the why, as SB pointed out. I know that while she works to change (a little, she does "search", that it is often fleeting. I keep needing to remind myself of Radical Acceptance.

[seeking balance]

I know what the behaviors are and most of the why, as SB pointed out. I know that while she works to change (a little, she does "search", that it is often fleeting. I keep needing to remind myself of Radical Acceptance.

Turkish, there is a place for Radical Acceptance with yourself in all of this - it is in this place that you will find some peace.  Change you, your focus on you and your emotions now.

It really causes me a huge amount of pain recognising this with myself.  How much have we allowed ourselves to be cheated.  Our decision as well now that we are aware of it. 

Aussie wisely talks about this pain - and it is in this pain that you will be able to detach Turkish.  Gaining a connection or value even as her "teacher" is still an attachment to her for your worth... .this is a very hard, painful attachment to break.

Radical acceptance - you are attached and breaking it is going to hurt.  Lean into the pain, to move past.

You deserve so much more Turkish.

[Elpis]

INDEED Turkish! What seeking balance said!

this you said

Everybody sees me better than I see myself.

says so much. And you know I struggle with the same thing--we've been givers (and I   the 99 cent illustration!) who didn't receive, and when we wake up to that fact it hurts.

My T has a one-track answer when I start to say "and then he did this!" on my way to unfolding another example of the ridiculously invalidating behavior of my uBPDh. She'll interrupt and say, "so, H was being H--" I always have to stop and tell myself "what else were you expecting? He's been doing these same things for years."

I have to figure this out too.