Missing pronoun modifier and non-specific disease

[Heartandsole]

Just curious, my udBPDw is constantly using pronouns "He, She, It" referring back to someone who hasn't been named in the story yet, or wasn't the last person referenced.  This is maddening to try to follow, and when I try to clarify it is taken as criticism, like I am supposed to know What the heck she is referring to.  Is this a quirk of hers or somehow related to the irrational mindset of pwBPD?

Other times it goes like this: "Hey, please bring me that thing from over there" (said without looking or pointing at anything)

The non-specific disease as I coin it is constant criticism that is just general:

"Everyone is disgusted by your recent decisions and actions"  When I ask who is disgusted about what... .no response!

Even in praise it goes like this "I am really proud of you.  Following your passions and sharing with others is admirable"  I have no idea what she is referring to!

I have no idea if this is BPD related, but it certainly doesn't help trying to make sense of irrational conversations about the WHY when you also have to guess the "who" or the "what" that is so clear in her mind but doesn't make it out of her mouth. 

Can anybody relate?

[rock_and_a_hard_place]

Hey H&S,

Yup, pronouns "he, she, them, it." Also demonstratives, "this/that thing, over there". The inability to put a definite noun or abstract noun to a definite verb was typical of my ex-BPD.

Egs.

"I can't believe she did that!" What? Who?

"She didn't do that, she would never do this." Who? What?

"I can't believe you went there." Again - where? Or, if used as an expression what did I do?

This is actually something I wondered about - because I kept having to ask throughout the course of our four year relationship. Albeit, she was a very good writer, just her speech was often impaired this way in high emotional periods - generally when she felt attacked (either directly or indirectly).

I was wondering if language stopped being processed so efficiently.

[Heartandsole]

I was wondering if language stopped being processed so efficiently.

I often thought that it may bebecause during her emotional dysregulation, and rage, words came out without really any thinking prior, kinda like aexternalizing a an internal monologue of emotion.  Perhaps what she was saying was so clear in her head, it did not register that others may not be able to follow.  She would actually get pissy when I asked for clarification! Eventually I got so adept of "translating" it was OK, but sometimes I felt like a parent translating a 2 year olds speech as if I was the only one that could follow it.

She was not a great writer, she processed things verbally and by her own admission "shot form the  hip"... .This was really the eventual downfall of our relationship because she woudl say what ever she felt without regard to the hurt it caused me, being a very rational and literal minded person. 

She was a motormouth but it was like her speech couldn't keep up with her brain or something.  Glad to hear at least one other person has encountered this frustrating form of communication.

[elessar]

back in February at a period when she wasn't talking to me, one night around 3:30am she messaged me saying "he is so scared that I still love you". i didn't reply, nor asked who "he" might be. some things are better left unknown. till you mentioned this, i never thought about this. but now will think if this was more common or not.

[Lolster]

"I can't believe she did that!" What? Who?

"She didn't do that, she would never do this." Who? What?

"I can't believe you went there." Again - where? Or, if used as an expression what did I do?

  Not specific to BPD, Aspies do it all the time.

this/that thing, over there". The inability to put a definite noun or abstract noun to a definite verb   Expressive language defecit.

"I can't believe you went there." Again - where? Or, if used as an expression what did I do?

  Lack of theory of mind, another aspie trait, they don't know that other people may be having independent thoughts of their own.  It's not uncommon for aspies to carry on a conversation from 3 days earlier and get annoyed when you can't fall back in to the conversation and know what they are talking about. 

Frustrating as hell, I live with it, my son is ASD.  I do find it more frustrating from other adults, like I did with exh and exbf.  I've been looking at the similarities/differences between ASD/BPD specifically.  I have a theory that undiagnosed ASD could eventually manifest in BPD.

My ex husband has the same genetic deficits as my son but definitely shows npd/BPD behaviours.  But how difficult would it be to grow up with so many deficits that you were consistently blamed for?  Which is what happened in my exh's case.  He was beaten/verbally abused, turned to alcohol at a young age and eventually ended up in the youth criminal justice system, so hardly surprising that he would have more issues on top of the others.  It's likely he would have ended up with a diagnosis of at least ASD if he had engaged in my sons evaluation, but he point blank refused.  I couldn't understand this beyond "selfish bas***d" but it was put to me to consider how someone in their late 30's would feel to suddenly be informed they had a disorder that they'd had their whole life and never known. 

Exbf also shows some ASD traits, but appears to show more BPD issues, e.g. fear of abandonment, suicide idealisation.

I suppose is one thing that stops a BPD seeking help, that admission that it is THEM that's disordered, not everyone around them, which is how they've learned to think.

[Ihope2]

Yes, having a conversation with my exBPDh was like having to fill in the blank spaces most of the time.  I had to surmise, guess, and anticipate his meaning all the time.

When I tried to check-in with him and paraphrase something he had just said, for me to be able to understand what he meant, I was met by hostility, and accusations of trying to be "clever" or "arrogant".  That I had a know-it-all attitude.

He thrived on a vague, non-specific conversation style, and he did not bear any interruptions. I had to keep still, not say a word, make full eye-contact and listen to his diatribes for sometimes hours on end.  I was not allowed to interrupt to try and clarify anything he was saying.

I also had to deal with unspecificed, unquantified things a lot. For eg, "I  will probably need some money to have  them fix the laptop".  Me "How much will it cost?", Him "A couple of hundred maybe".  Me "What's wrong with it, what will they need to fix, who did you take it to have it checked out?". Him ":)on't you trust me? Don't you trust my judgement.  You are sounding just like my father now.  Never mind, just leave it, and I will tell them not to bother, and we can just sit with a faulty laptop".

Or else he would say "I am taking the car, I am just going to take care of a few things. There are a few things I need to do and a few people I need to see."

Me "What do you need to take care of?  Who are you going to see? When can I expect you home?". Him "Why are you so suspicious of me? Don't you trust me?  It is just some business I need to take care of".

All rather suspicious sounding... .Vague, ambiguous,communication which was probably a big cover up for whatever he was doing.  And I also realise now that his tactic of not quantifying how much money he would need for  a certain thing, was a tactic to get me to hopefully hand over more than he actually required, because he cottoned on pretty quickly to my generosity.  I rather give too much, than too little... .

[Ihope2]

So in a nutshell, a lot of the non-specific, vague, ambiguous, chaotic, non-linear, illogical communication style perhaps also has to do with the interpersonal style a person with BPD develops to "hustle" others, as opposed to being able to operate within a framework of dialogue and negotiation and reaching consensus or agreeing to disagree on something. They are not capable of healthy interpersonal interaction. 

I know that neither have I been capable of healthy interpersonal interaction, but I am much more awake to my shortcoming in that regard now!

[Heartandsole]

So in a nutshell, a lot of the non-specific, vague, ambiguous, chaotic, non-linear, illogical communication style perhaps also has to do with the interpersonal style a person with BPD develops to "hustle" others, as opposed to being able to operate within a framework of dialogue and negotiation and reaching consensus or agreeing to disagree on something. They are not capable of healthy interpersonal interaction.

For sure in my case my udBPDw has no negotiation skills, even our T talked about that in our "closure meeting" that was supposed to be the transition from couples therapy to dissolving the marriage last week.  The only consensus is is "HER VIEW"  agreeing to disagree is the same as agreeing to talk for a few more hours until I break off a piece of my self respect and hand it over in the form of "oh I see now, you are right"

Dialogue = Her monologue

In trying to re-find this post I ran across one from 2010 on the same exact topic, worth a look if you are following this one:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=115151.msg1133029;topicseen