Her whole way of speaking is strange… NPD or BPD?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I've noticed that my brothers UBPD wife is very hard to converse with. It's not that she doesn't talk, it's that she doesn't know how to have a conversation. She doesn't ask questions about you or try to get to know you. Mostly when she talks, it's about herself. Most of the things she talks about are very superficial and at surface level. She will talk about things like, what cars she owns, where she works and how much she pays for things, what her and her girlfriends do, but she doesn't get into any deeper type conversations. She likes to brag a lot too and if she does catch something you say, she will try to "one up you".

I've also noticed, not only are the topics she talks about are strange but her whole way of speaking is strange. Everything seems like a sales pitch. Ironically, she works as a salesperson. Also she speaks very fast. It's almost hard to understand what she's saying because she's speaking so fast. She also flutters her eyes and they roll back in her head a lot while she's speaking as if she trying to avoid eye contact, at all costs. She never makes any eye contact at all.

Almost everyone who has come in contact with her has said she's very odd. She tells you way too much information about herself. She also gets very comfortable, very quickly. After only meeting her twice, she was offering to have her 11 year old daughter and even herself, to babysit my 6 month old son. I had never been to her house but she was telling my husband and I, we can come by and swim in her pool even if she wasn't home. Everyone has said the very same things about her, that she is very condescending, and that she speaks "at you" not "to you". They all have noticed that she seems to control and dominate the conversation and she doesn't really care or respond to anything you may contribute.

Before my brother had suggested BPD, I totally had her pegged as NPD. This was solely based on the content of her convos and her self centeredness. I'm just wondering if any of these things seem typical of someone with BPD or is it just exclusive to her and her personality?

.

[Youcantfoolme]

I've noticed that my brothers UBPD wife is very hard to converse with. It's not that she doesn't talk, it's that she doesn't know how to have a conversation. She doesn't ask questions about you or try to get to know you. Mostly when she talks, it's about herself. Most of the things she talks about are very superficial and at surface level. She will talk about things like, what cars she owns, where she works and how much she pays for things, what her and her girlfriends do, but she doesn't get into any deeper type conversations. She likes to brag a lot too and if she does catch something you say, she will try to "one up you".

I've also noticed, not only are the topics she talks about are strange but her whole way of speaking is strange. Everything seems like a sales pitch. Ironically, she works as a salesperson. Also she speaks very fast. It's almost hard to understand what she's saying because she's speaking so fast. She also flutters her eyes and they roll back in her head a lot while she's speaking as if she trying to avoid eye contact, at all costs. She never makes any eye contact at all.

Almost everyone who has come in contact with her has said she's very odd. She tells you way too much information about herself. She also gets very comfortable, very quickly. After only meeting her twice, she was offering to have her 11 year old daughter and even herself, to babysit my 6 month old son. I had never been to her house but she was telling my husband and I, we can come by and swim in her pool even if she wasn't home. Everyone has said the very same things about her, that she is very condescending, and that she speaks "at you" not "to you". They all have noticed that she seems to control and dominate the conversation and she doesn't really care or respond to anything you may contribute.

Before my brother had suggested BPD, I totally had her pegged as NPD. This was solely based on the content of her convos and her self centeredness. I'm just wondering if any of these things seem typical of someone with BPD or is it just exclusive to her and her personality?

.

[woofhound]

My exuBPD was similar to this. When we would have a "conversation" it would usually only be her talking and trying to express her point. If I interjected, which was very difficult due to how quickly she would speak and how often she would change subjects, I would at best get out half of my thought. Eventually i would just quit talking altogether because there was no respect for any of my thoughts. She would then get angry at me and generally do one of two things; imply or outright say that i wasnt capable of being deep (which is super ironic since i studied philosophy for 3 years in college) (also ironic because she would almost always come across as shallow to most people) OR she would get angry and say that i wasnt listening to her... .Wasn't it her that would let me get a word in edge wise?

You are not alone out there.

[Wrecked]

I had similar experiences with my son's uBPDgf. I used to say that conversations with her felt like arguments.  She always had to have the last word even though there was no argument.

The one-upping thing happened often, even about the silliest things. For example. if I said I felt warm, she'd feel warmer. Or if I read a good book or went to a good restaurant, she'd have read a better book and gone to a better restaurant.  Even her French teacher was better than mine. Every thing about her and her life was much better than anyone else.

The very first day I met her, she told me how her mother was a horrible monster that wanted nothing to do with her and her father was the greatest, richest, most powerful man that ever existed. (Her parents were divorced.) She went on to say that her mother had chosen money and men over her and her sister and that they was emancipated from her parents because they were so horrible.  She was underage at the time but this turned out to be untrue.  I guess she was testing me for manipulability to see how sorry I'd feel for her.

The second time I met her, she asked me how she could keep my son sexually interested in her and prevent him from cheating on her when she wasn't around, a conversation every mother wants to have with her son's girlfriend (sarcasm).

Although I am by no means an authority on the subject, as I understand it, NPD and BPD can and often do co-occur.

[Youcantfoolme]

I had similar experiences with my son's uBPDgf. I used to say that conversations with her felt like arguments.  She always had to have the last word even though there was no argument.

The one-upping thing happened often, even about the silliest things. For example. if I said I felt warm, she'd feel warmer. Or if I read a good book or went to a good restaurant, she'd have read a better book and gone to a better restaurant.  Even her French teacher was better than mine. Every thing about her and her life was much better than anyone else.

The very first day I met her, she told me how her mother was a horrible monster that wanted nothing to do with her and her father was the greatest, richest, most powerful man that ever existed. (Her parents were divorced.) She went on to say that her mother had chosen money and men over her and her sister and that they was emancipated from her parents because they were so horrible.  She was underage at the time but this turned out to be untrue.  I guess she was testing me for manipulability to see how sorry I'd feel for her.

The second time I met her, she asked me how she could keep my son sexually interested in her and prevent him from cheating on her when she wasn't around, a conversation every mother wants to have with her son's girlfriend (sarcasm).

Although I am by no means an authority on the subject, as I understand it, NPD and BPD can and often do co-occur.

I can't think of a more inappropriate conversation to have with a mother, at ANY time let alone upon your second meeting!



I totally understand what you're saying. The one upping thing is really annoying. Every topic we talked about that night she one upped me. If I said something about makeup, she owned EVERYTHING that Mac sold in their stores. Also she's the best at everything. I feel like almost everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie or a huge exaggeration. She's also tells many different versions of the same story, ie., her sisters husband tried to kill her, her sisters husband threatened to kill her. HUGE difference there! Someone sayin, "I'm going to kill you." Or someone actually trying to cause physical harm!

[woofhound]

I can't really say that mine one-upped very often, but she was really good at making subjective stuff seem like it made sense (to her) when it didn't make any sense at all (to anyone else). She would idealize people by their astrological sign. For instance, I was a ":)ecadent Taurus, stubborn, etc.", one of my friends was "a clingy Libra", and she was always "An intellectual, hard working Capricorn"... .Way to go... .You managed to pigeon hole everybody in the world into 12 catagories while stripping away their individuality 

[losingconfidence]

Does it matter?

Clearly your intuition is telling you something is off about this person and that maybe the person needs help/you need to set boundaries with her. Trust that. You don't need a diagnosis to tell you what you already know - this person's behavior is upsetting to you. Best case scenario, she seeks out medical advice. Those labels are mostly just for therapists to figure out what half-useless thing to try. I say half-useless because very little helps with PDs especially when they don't want to change (and usually they don't).

[Youcantfoolme]

Does it matter?

Clearly your intuition is telling you something is off about this person and that maybe the person needs help/you need to set boundaries with her. Trust that. You don't need a diagnosis to tell you what you already know - this person's behavior is upsetting to you. Best case scenario, she seeks out medical advice. Those labels are mostly just for therapists to figure out what half-useless thing to try. I say half-useless because very little helps with PDs especially when they don't want to change (and usually they don't).

I get what you're saying. It doesn't matter as far as her diagnosis goes. I was just kind of wondering in general, if this is something that's common or if it's exclusive to her. Just basically wanted to see if it was a trend. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter much to me anymore because I haven't spoken a word to her in over 9 months. Basically I was just asking if all PwBPD seem to dominate conversations and talk mostly about themselves. It's just another thing that will validate my thoughts about her having BPD since I'm not really 100% sure if she's ever been diagnosed with it.

It seems to me that she's kind of void of personality and doesn't really know who she is. Topics with her are always light and fluffy. She doesn't seem to get in many in-depth conversations with people. It's as if she can't have a deep conversation on any level. If she's always talking, you can't ask her questions. It's sort if her way of evading her own truth. If she just keeps talking about her material possessions and hobbies, no one could ask her an intimate question about her.

She also doesn't care to learn or ask questions about others. It seems she only thinks what she has to say is important and other people's thoughts, ideas and opinions don't matter to her.

With that said, I was just wondering if this is something that's common in PwBPD. Do they have shallow conversations? Do they dominate conversations? Just wondering

[jdtm]

she doesn't know how to have a conversation - doesn't ask questions - very superficial - will try to "one up you" - whole way of speaking is strange - speaks very fast - avoid eye contact, at all costs - tells you way too much information - speaks "at you" not "to you" - shallow

The items I have selected are all anxiety issues.  That being said, many with NPD and/or BPD have co-morbid anxiety issues.  Everything seems to overlap, doesn't it?  Those with anxiety issues often seem to have very low self-esteem and, at the same time, appear to illustrate a self-centeredness and seem to be very shallow (and I suspect the same to be true with personality disorders) - but - just an opinion.  Like I said - everything seems to overlap.

[Seoulsister]

She doesn't ask questions about you or try to get to know you. Mostly when she talks, it's about herself. Most of the things she talks about are very superficial and at surface level. She will talk about things like, what cars she owns, where she works and how much she pays for things, what her and her girlfriends do, but she doesn't get into any deeper type conversations. She likes to brag a lot too and if she does catch something you say, she will try to "one up you".

Also she speaks very fast. It's almost hard to understand what she's saying because she's speaking so fast.

I'm just wondering if any of these things seem typical of someone with BPD or is it just exclusive to her and her personality?

This describes my uBPD mil too. Rapid talking, no pauses, no room for others to speak; it's basically a one-sided conversation. All conversations with her are either about her, or how whatever is said by others relates to her. She "one ups" by having it worse. Had a bad experience? Hers was a million times worse.

I am new to this site and have been wondering how SET or other techniques can be used if one is unable to get a word in edgewise with the pwBPD. By the time there's a pause, it's 45 minutes later.

[Youcantfoolme]

She doesn't ask questions about you or try to get to know you. Mostly when she talks, it's about herself. Most of the things she talks about are very superficial and at surface level. She will talk about things like, what cars she owns, where she works and how much she pays for things, what her and her girlfriends do, but she doesn't get into any deeper type conversations. She likes to brag a lot too and if she does catch something you say, she will try to "one up you".

Also she speaks very fast. It's almost hard to understand what she's saying because she's speaking so fast.

I'm just wondering if any of these things seem typical of someone with BPD or is it just exclusive to her and her personality?

This describes my uBPD mil too. Rapid talking, no pauses, no room for others to speak; it's basically a one-sided conversation. All conversations with her are either about her, or how whatever is said by others relates to her. She "one ups" by having it worse. Had a bad experience? Hers was a million times worse.

I am new to this site and have been wondering how SET or other techniques can be used if one is unable to get a word in edgewise with the pwBPD. By the time there's a pause, it's 45 minutes later.

Good way to describe "one upping" it doesn't necessarily need to be them trying to be better it's just having to trump you in any facet of life. They also accomplish this by putting down ones ideas.

I also would find the SET techniques, hard to implement in my relationship being that her and I generally do not speak or argue with each other. She's too busy pretending to be the innocent victim.

[workinprogress]

Perhaps BPD's/NPD's feel anxiety when they are talking to others, thus they speak rapidly and loudly?  They control conversations in order to keep people from finding them out.

I also noticed that when they tend to speak the most they are talking about themselves, or trashing other people.

[Louise7777]

To add a bit more confusion  , Id add HPD (Histrionic Personality Disorder).

Keep in mind PDs traits overlap, so its hard to decide which is what. I have known my uPD relatives since I was born (all are older than me) and I cant really say they are BPD/ NPD or HPD. Even these types have subtypes.

But your sister in law behaviour is so familiar to me, unfortunately.

[P.F.Change]

Here is some information on the diagnostic criteria:

BPD: What is it? How can I tell?

What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?

It can be tempting to try and blame every annoying habit someone has on their personality disorder. If we're not careful, things can devolve into co-rumination, overgeneralizing, black-and-white thinking ("us" vs. "them". Just something to keep in mind as we go forward. 

Your questions are valid, Youcantfoolme. I would just echo losingconfidence's question--how much does it matter? Does finding a diagnosis for her ultimately change the work you need to do for your own healing?

[workinprogress]

Here is some information on the diagnostic criteria:

BPD: What is it? How can I tell?

What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?

It can be tempting to try and blame every annoying habit someone has on their personality disorder. If we're not careful, things can devolve into co-rumination, overgeneralizing, black-and-white thinking ("us" vs. "them". Just something to keep in mind as we go forward. 

Your questions are valid, Youcantfoolme. I would just echo losingconfidence's question--how much does it matter? Does finding a diagnosis for her ultimately change the work you need to do for your own healing?

I think a diagnosis is important because it gives you an awareness of what you are dealing with.

Looking back I can see that my dad was NPD, it changed my entire perspective on my childhood.  My childhood was a nightmare.  One drama after another.  I was picked on and belittled non-stop by my dad.  Nothing I did was ever good enough.  He always told me that there was something wrong with me.  He destroyed my confidence.  Now, I realize that I did as much as a human being could do.  I became a super human people pleaser because I had no other choice in the matter.

Now I realize that normal humans will allow you to be yourself.  I am trying to do new things like enjoy my life.  I am trying not to be superman.  I am trying not to be all things to all people.

I am trying to be myself.  Something that was denied me growing up.  It isn't easy trying to make up for all of that lost time and discover my interests.  Most people get to do that when they're kids.

[woofhound]

My ex was diagnosed with Bi-polar at a young age. I wonder if the odd way of speaking to others could be a result of her bi-polar? I also wonder if perhaps she was diagnosed incorrectly with Bi-polar. Is it common for someone who should have been diagnosed with BPD? The racing thoughts I guess could be the Bi-polar, but so much of her other behavior I've witnessed in the stories on this forum from people with diagnosed BPD partners (lying, cheating, partner feeling confused, destructive behaviors like serial sexual encounters).

Thoughts?

[Louise7777]

Woofhound, my relative was diagnosed bipolar and put on antidepressants for over a decade, but Im convinced she´s borderline.

In the end, "labels" dont matter, but in the process of healing they were very important to me. That "odd behaviour" finally got a name and then I moved on.

[woofhound]

My ex wouldn't take medication. "Not ever!" she said. She would, only in moments of clarity, admit that she had a problem only to later say "I just said that because XYZ". Usually XYZ would include something I did that was my fault. What a beautiful waste of talent and a potentially great life together.

[Mutt]

She doesn't ask questions about you or try to get to know you. Mostly when she talks, it's about herself. Most of the things she talks about are very superficial and at surface level.

Narcissism. You described my father to a T. My father talks quickly, paces around, can't sit still, anxious, and the conversation is centered around him. There could be a room with 10 people and he's oblivious that others have a voice. It's difficult to get him to focus on a conversation about me or my kids he changes the subject. It's a one-way conversation. He's in his mid 60's and is still this way for as long as I have known him.

My wife is undiagnosed with BPD traits

She has dominant Queen / Witch characteristics with narcissism but not like my father. Her narcissism transgresses through a selfish need - a Queen is entitled, controlling and narcissistic. My father will talk non-stop about himself and stories of grandiosity whereas my wife can hold a normal conversation without being physically anxious and talking a mile a minute. Very strange to observe, it's uncomfortable, embarrassing, but I'm used to it because I have known him so long.

I saw traits in him having lived with my wife but not entirely similar. I wouldn't say my dad is NPD I would describe him as a narcissistic parent. His behaviors are not as intense as my wife but he has black and white thinking and has split me black a few times. If I challenged his authority as a child. He would disown his abusive behavior and distort to family I was a "bad child and no good".

[Youcantfoolme]

At the end of the day, no it doesn't matter what she has. I don't need a diagnosis to know that there's something completely "off" about this person. It does matter in the sense that it helps create a better understanding and putting it under an umbrella term like, "mentally ill" doesn't help me understand what's going on in her head. Actually, having a name for all the odd behavior I've witnessed in the past year, does help. I'm trying to process all the weird stuff that's happened with her which is why I'm asking these questions. I think that's why everyone is on this board, To gain a better understanding. I don't see the harm in asking questions like these.

I've been trying to put this puzzle together for quite some time. It IS part of MY healing. The more I understand about this person and her disorder, the more at peace I can be with the situation. All of the answers I have received on this board have helped me a very great deal. Basically I have learned that PwBPD are very hard to communicate with and you can either except them for who they are, except that what they say and feel is the "truth" (to them at least) and that you cannot change the way they think or feel no matter what kind of logic you throw at them. Learning this, I saved myself a lot of unneeded stress and heartache.