Push and Pull

[Samuel S.]

Well, here I am on the Staying or Leaving Board trying my best to stay in my relationship while my BPDw is making many conflicting remarks as to our relationship.

My BPDw was abused by her mother when she was a child. Also, toward the end of their marriage, she and her H lost their oldest daughter who was only 7 1/2 years old to a mosquito bite in 1999. Unfortunately, their marriage did not last much longer.

She and I met and got married. She convinced me in so many different ways that she was the right one, that my first W was not loving and that my 2 daughters were not loving either.

Things began to slowly but surely get bad between us, because she didn't like my daughters and even admitted she was jealous of one of them. That created many arguments and close separations, but she eventually realized that I had a right to love my daughters as she loves her surviving daughter.

She and I have gone through all kinds of traditional and non-traditional therapies throughout the years. She has found a "medium-counselor" who has emphasized that my BPDw deserves to follow her dreams virtually to the exclusion of her relationship with me. Yeah, you read that correctly!

Now, she is about to start her second year of college on a part-time basis while working part-time. The end result is that while I always make our relationship first because we are married, she continuously focuses on her studies, degrades me, and neglects me. Once in a blue moon, she will say she loves me. She prepares some meals for me, but in terms of her relating to me, that is almost non-existent. In fact, we haven't gone on a date for years, nor have we gone on even day trips for a long time.

So, having such a relationship is hard for me, and that's why I am on this board. So, what do you think of this situation? is it worth it?

[empathic]

I'm not sure I can give you any advice, but your posts sure ring more than a few bells for me.

My wife also focuses a lot on her own interests. If I start talking about how I'd like to improve some area of my life, the focus is quickly steered back to her and her many projects. I have a constant feeling of "if she just gets to do _this_, then maybe... ." (everything will be OK between us some point in the future). But that day never seems to come.

There's a book about love languages, I haven't read it myself, but it's supposed to be about finding out your partners "love language" i.e. what you can do for them to make them feel that you love them. In my case, I think one could fairly say that I have tried to adapt endlessly to make life easier and better for my wife. The other way around, I can't find many examples of my wife going out of her way to do something for me, unfortunately.

I think I have given up on having that deep, meaningful relationship I was hoping for, and trying to do the best with what I have, for now.

[byfaith]

Hi Sammuel S.

From all of your posts that I have read, from everything you explain, there basically is nothing in your relationship that makes you happy. Maybe I am missing something. We all have our reasons for staying and hoping something works out. I have my reasons for staying. I wish you the best. I feel for you because you are so torn on what to do. Our BPD spouse's suffer an illness that makes them feel empty and void but on the other hand we feel a void that may never be filled. So what is the difference? I don't know? Who says we don't suffer an illness that keeps us in a mentally abusive relationship, or worse a physically abusive relationship. I don't know? I guess we just have to choose our path and follow it until it comes to a dead end or we don't have the strength to keep walking that path. It's a struggle, hang in there.

[Samuel S.]

My BPDw and her D17 went on a 4 day mother-daughter trip. My BPDw has called once a day enjoying their trip together. Tonight, she called actually wondering if I were okay, the first time in a long time. I got the sense she was missing me. To be honest, having this break from her makes me realize how freeing it is not to have her around. Considering after everything she has done to be verbally abusive and being neglectful, this is a welcomed vacation for me. What it means when they return tomorrow, I don't know, but I have felt a big sigh of relief!

[anxiety5]

Samuel,

Who am I to give advice? You can read my posts and you'd probably think I was crazy for considering staying. Let's relate in those ways. If a car accident happens and individuals on different corners observe it, the report they give to the police is going to be slightly different. My point, everything is viewed differently from perspective and often times very differently. It's easier to give advice than to take it. I know this myself first hand. You and I both get caught up in the details of our own people. There is a face to go with the abuse. It's hard to see things for what they are. Here is what I'm quickly learning. We are ALL here ruminating but Why? Because things changed in our relationships. Would we stay with them if they acted the way they act today on the day we met them? Absolutely not. Therein rests the power of seduction, lust, love and obsession. You know as well as I these feelings activate the same euphoric enzymes in the brain that are released when someone is high on a drug. If we use logic, why is it that EVERY single person in these forums has the commonality of losing something that once was in the beginning? Because THAT is how these people get away with it. Think about it. Would there every be a scenario when someone here said "She treated me like dirt when we first met, but I fell so hard for her. Now years later, she's so loving and sweet. I hate her." Obviously not. We'd never get involved with a person that treated us so poorly at first. We'd be THANKFUL we dodged a bullet. Precisely why the relationships NEVER go that way, yet ALWAYS turn for the worse. Do they really turn for the worse or is the initial seduction nothing more than a facade. A fake act? We both know the answer to this question. Yes. It's fake. Observe a drug addict. You'll see a guy living in a box, with no teeth, never showers and lost his family. Even when he does get his fix, he just falls over and passes out. Does he feel good? No. Then we must ask, why the heck does he do it? It's the same reason you and I both miserable and void of happiness confined to prisons of torment with unresponsive and neglectful partners will waste our nights on these forums hoping we can some how sort it all out. We are addicted. And like the drug addict described above we are too enmeshed with our habitual nature to understand how bad the next dose is going to make us feel. We are chasing a high that not only will never be, but was an act in the first place in order to position us into the learned state of helplessness in which we are now trapped.  Only by detaching the proverbial face of the abuser and observing the relationship in these abstract terms am I able to see the perspective of an outsider in my very own relationship. And much like the two witnesses to the accident I described above, I'm not really concerned with the finer points anymore, I just know that from any perspective I view it in this way all I see is a horrific crash. And when I get closer to this horrific crash to peer inside the only face I see is that of my own, behind the wheel. Competent enough to steer my own course to safer roads, with all the answers I need right in front of my face, yet there I rest in the wreckage of something I ALWAYS have the ability to steer away from.

She does not control your happiness. Only you do. And if now is not the time to go, then when?

[Samuel S.]

Thank you for all of the replies! I need to read through the lessons and go over again your observations.

Last month, my BPDw encouraged me to go out of town for 3 days to the coast which I did, and it was such a freeing, relaxing time in which the only times I dealt with her was when I called her, and she complained about her work.

The last 4 days, my BPDw and her D17 took their vacation break, and she called me once a day to explain their day. Last night when she called, she actually asked how I was feeling, and I said I am okay. While this would be a normal question to ask, I found out it rather peculiar, because when she is around here, she never asks me that, because it is all about her. Whether she was sincere or not, I don't know and frankly seems artificial at best, considering how selfish she really is.

As for these last 4 days, I have relaxed, taught, and tutored, and I have felt just as free as like when I went on my 3 day break from here.

I guess after reading and re-reading here and feeling what I have been feeling, that is when I can get more clarity as to what I want. Calm frankly feels much better than the storm that she provides so very often with her verbal abuse and neglect while I have always provided love, care, support, comfort, and validation. Like all of you, while I do all of these things, it can be very exhausting when I encounter quite the opposite on a regular basis.

[Suspicious1]

anxiety5, what a wonderful post. I'll be keeping that for the future.

[Samuel S.]

AnxietyS, "if not now, when?" is an extremely important question to ponder. At the same time, I always hope that my BPDw will come to the realization that I have always loved her, that she will get her "aha" before I decide to leave. Unfortunately, I am a romantic at heart, hoping for the possibility of a relationship with her. She and her D17 returned after their 4 day trip together which they deserved, because they haven't done something like that for a long time, but my BPDw has not made the time for us in years, even though I have asked her with her only telling me she is too busy. Unfortunately, she was so busy when they returned and had no quality time with me. Unfortunately, she said: "Gosh, the next 5 days, I will be working, and I go off to school and also work." Lost in the conversation was/is the relationship that we have had. So, bottom line, I am in limbo, thus immersing myself in my own joys professionally and personally. It is rather obvious that she has other priorities, instead.

[Samuel S.]

I feel left out when it comes to my BPDw. It is only when I am teaching, tutoring, being with friends, and exercising when I am feeling fine. On the other hand, when the weekend comes around and when there is down time, that is when I get down on myself. I eat and drink the wrong things, thus gaining weight. I think I've gained some 15 pounds. I don't like how I look, but it seems like the only satisfaction I have is when I am by myself.

It all comes down to me being lonely, grieving about the absence of my BPDw. I frankly don't know how to stop myself on a personal level. It is only when I am helping others that I "escape" myself so that I don't have to confront the void I definitely feel for not having my BPDw as a partner.

In the meantime, she is happier doing her own thing with working, going to college, being away two days a week, and studying when she returns. Our relationship consists of a hello in the morning, a phone call during her lunch break, and a hello and maybe her sharing part of her day at the end of the day, and that's it!

So, I am at a loss. I am lonely. I am grieving.

[Samuel S.]

At the beginning of our relationship, my BPDw felt the need to connect, because she suffered many hardships. I helped realize that she is worthy of being heard, and she began to feel better. Then, some family problems that she perceived that were not true came up. Then, we went into couple counseling for a little while, and that seemed to resolve things. Then, she found a "medium counselor" who hates men. Now, my BPDw feels superior while trying to make me feel inferior with her snide remarks and verbal abuse. Now, it has become neglect.

So, my BPDw has gone from feeling rather out of it to being verbally abusive and neglectful. She has told me that she is better than I am. I have shared with her that we are all different, and we don't need to label one another. Our relationship was based out of love and respect for another, but she has chosen to make this relationship one of "power over". In her eyes, she does better practically in everything. This is why I feel so very alone in this so-called relationship.

Ironically, my BPDw has a mother who basically did the same thing to her. My BPDw has degraded her mother for this. I wonder how she would feel, if she knew that. Yet, I don't go there, because I just want a relationship with her where there is love and mutual respect. I guess she doesn't, and that is why I am sad and alone. That is why I enjoy myself outside of this so-called relationship. That is why I am in a state of limbo of being here, but disadvantages are growing quite a bit.

[stuckgirl]

My BPDw and her D17 went on a 4 day mother-daughter trip. My BPDw has called once a day enjoying their trip together. Tonight, she called actually wondering if I were okay, the first time in a long time. I got the sense she was missing me. To be honest, having this break from her makes me realize how freeing it is not to have her around. Considering after everything she has done to be verbally abusive and being neglectful, this is a welcomed vacation for me. What it means when they return tomorrow, I don't know, but I have felt a big sigh of relief!

you feel 'free' away from her,correct me if im reading this wrong,but you feel 'better' or 'happier'

it seems to me that your expressing that she is abusing you and not showing her affection for you,and because of that you are unhappy,do you think there is hope for you i this relationship,that if you both work at it,she will come around? or do you think it will go on like this,because you dont seem to want that,or you wouldnt be posting here,you deserve to be happy too.have you tried couples therapy? does she agree to that? you should definitely make your happiness as number one priority,i always say we get to live only once,do you best to try to snatch that happiness from wherever you think you deserve it from

[Samuel S.]

Yes, I have felt better and happier when my BPDw is not around. I have a tremendous gulp in my throat when you posted that this is a sign that she has been abusing me. Your words are true unfortunately! I don't know if there is hope for this relationship, because she is so focused in terms of her work, her college, her studies, and her self-improvement with the help of a "medium counselor" who hates men. I have asked many times that I think it would be best that we get couple counseling; however, she continuously says that she has too many things to work on in terms of herself. Indeed, she does, with the loss of her oldest daughter at 7 1/2 who passed away over 15 years ago, due to her mother abusing her physically and emotionally. Yes, she has a lot to deal with, but she continuously shelves the idea of couple counseling. She knows I will divulge the negative effects, her abuse, of me.

I know on an intellectual level that I deserve to be happy as well. Professionally, I have done very well, because this is my outlet to help others. I teach and I help. I give workshops. I have written and published books.

Yes, it is ironic that I feel I don't deserve to be happy, and there are a variety of reasons. My BPDw has been verbally abusive over the years. She told me that I don't try hard enough in one physical exercise or another. She told me that she was jealous of my D from my first marriage, but I said I love her as a D and nothing else. She told me we are not going to be intimate anymore, because she feels like a D, which was a major turnoff for me. BTW, that was about 6 years ago. She told me that I caused a whiplash car accident to myself, because I supposedly had a bad attitude, thus allowing the other car to hit me when I was at a legal stop. BTW, both insurance companies determined the other car was speeding and hit me. BTW, my BPDw didn't mind the money I got from the insurance company. When I was in the hospital 3 times a couple of years ago, while she was concerned for a while, she told me that me being in the hospital would cost a lot of money for us. BTW, I have 3 insurance policies that covered everything completely. BTW, when she said that, I didn't look at her, because I was so upset, and I was literally gasping for air. After she left, the nurse came in, and I cried and told her everything that had happened. She actually held my hand to comfort me. She referred me to the social worker whom I talked to who said that what my BPDw was saying didn't show any compassion or love at all. BTW, I had been bleeding from blood clot medicine, and I was in the hospital for 15 days totally.

She has had all kinds of therapy, and I really do feel that while her "medium counselor" has some good insight in terms of personal development which within itself is good, she does not support relationships, at least females and males. BTW, she lives with a female, and she has written for a LGBT magazine.

Now that my BPDw has given up at least temporarily in her verbal abuse of me, she is focusing on herself almost exclusively, and the direct result is that we don't really have a relationship. We haven't even gone out on a date in who knows how long. She does prepare food for lunch and dinner, and I prepare her breakfast. She says she wants to change occupations in order to be happy. I support whatever she wants to do professionally. Yet, it is almost like she is being obsessive, even during this summer vacation when there was no school. She studied every day "to catch up" and "to get ahead".

Yes, you're right that we get to live only once and that I deserve happiness, but I am in limbo and frankly haven't felt that I deserve happiness, at least on an emotional level. This is hard for me to post, but that is the raw truth of how I feel.

[Samuel S.]

Where I get so confused and so frustrated as I have also seen posted by other nonBPDs is that when my BPDw is nice and considerate with me. For example, we live in a gated community, and parking spaces are limited. Seeing that we have 3 cars and only have 2 spaces, if my BPDw arrives before I do, she will park in an available visitor parking space so that I can park in our carport instead of out in the street. Also, she bought me a TV a couple of years ago and encouraged me to go on a solo vacation just recently when she was working and when I was not working. Nevertheless, as I have described in my other posts, she has never apologized for her verbal abuse.