I think I'm being baited

[netto]

Hello,

I'm new to this board.  What brought me here was that my uBPDb went too far in his verbal abuse (he said a very wicked thing, way below the belt about a very traumatic event (loss of a baby) that my husband and I experienced to the point that went I went to visit my home state, I chose not to see him.  It was the first time that I have not seen him while visiting out there.  We have had periods of NC over the years.  They usually lasted several months or less.  He would eventually apologize, sweep it under the rug and start over but this was just too much. (This is his pattern) We are both in our 40's.  I received a text from him last night asking if I was still in our home state (he still lives there but I live on the other side of the country now).  I know that he knows that I am longer there since I had told him when I had planned to be there and it's been over 5 weeks and I never vacation there for that long.  I feel that he is trying to start an argument but saying, "I can't believe that you didn't come to see me" or something like that.  I don't have a good feeling about his question and so far I have not responded.  I'm debating over whether to respond and/or how to respond or if to just ignore it altogether.  I'm tired.  I have other things going in my life that require a lot of my attention.  Being entangled with him is more for his benefit than mine.  I would be fine with NC.  At the same time, I don't want to just ignore him. I like to be upfront but it seems for uBPDb that it just opens the door for him to lash out at me. I don't know what I need to do.  I just never know what to expect if I respond.  Many times, I end up getting my head bit off and blamed for his issues.  He tries to make me feel guilty and obligated.  He accuses me of betraying him.  I know it's not true but I'm trying to figure what my responsibility is here as his sister.  I do care about my uBPDb and love him unconditionally but I don't want to damage my own mental health as a result of his games and abuse.

[funfunctional]

Hi Netto,

Just pretend you are too busy and forgot and don't respond.    You know it doesn't feel right to respond so "don't go there".  Your gut is telling you that when you get that nauseau in your solar plexus.   

If he makes contact with you again and says "you didn't respond" just say "oh sorry... .I have been really busy" and leave it at that.

Don't take the bite.   Most BPD's need daily feeds of drama so by laying low the BPD will find another drama to work on.  Someone else to poke.

Good luck!

[Harri]

funfuctional posted while I was composing mine.  I decided to post mine even though I have a different take on it.  Either way is valid.  Do what is right for you.


I am so very sorry to hear of your loss.  I won't pretend to be able to even imagine the grief you must feel and then to have to deal with over-the-top and hurtful comments from a brother must just intensify the hurt and grief.  

I agree that you are probably being baited, but not so much to trick you or anything like that at least not intentionally.  I think it might be part of the push-pull behaviors that are all too common in people with BPD.  Regardless of intent though, the end result is a mind scramble (I really want to use a different word there, but I find the profanity filter just a bit frustrating.  I am not on good terms with it at all... .it makes me look silly  :P )

I'm debating over whether to respond and/or how to respond or if to just ignore it altogether.

Did you ever tell him you were hurt by what he said and that he needed to stay away from you?  If not, he does not know that this time is different from the other times and he may not understand that he crossed the limit line in terms of his verbal abuse.  Now telling him is most likely not going to get him to stop calling/texting, but you would  have at least told him what you want and what you expect from him.  The no reply option leaves a lot of loose ends.  Either way, chances are he will lash out regarless of what you do.   I think telling him directly would be best, but you get to choose what is right for you.

I do care about my uBPDb and love him unconditionally but I don't want to damage my own mental health as a result of his games and abuse.

As for your responsibility with him, sister or no, you have a right to take care of yourself and keep yourself and your husband safe from his verbal attacks.  Block his calls, texts and email.  Sister =/= take abuse.   

It is okay to be direct with your wish for no contact and to establish other means of protecting yourself.  

[netto]

Thank you both for your insight.  I did tell my brother that it really hurt me when he made the remarks and that while I understand he was hurt about our disagreement on an issue between him and my other brother, he didn't need to hurt me with his cruel comments and that I no longer trusted him. I also said that I would not be talking to him and that his behavior was pushing me away.  I told him that it would be lying for me to agree with him on something that I really didn't agree.  I also told him that good relationships have a balance of agreement and disagreements and I was okay if he disagreed with me as well.  I wished him well and that he would find what he needed despite his being hurtful towards me but told him that I just could not give him what he needed in terms of agreeing with everything that he thinks.  He replied with remarks about the family betraying him and that he didn't want anything to do with us either.  Later, in a text he offered a simple apology and said let's just move past it.  I just replied, "okay."

I do forgive him for what he said but I really didn't feel comfortable saying anything more at that point and seeing him while I was out visiting.  I was still very hurt by what he said and didn't feel that I could be around him and pretend it was done.

This is pretty much all through text.  He's not one to talk on the phone much.

So, I had initially told him that I was done with the relationship and felt that I couldn't meet his expectations.  Yes, I started the conversation in anger but ended it calmly, wishing him the best.  I had hoped at that point that he wouldn't contact me for a while but I was wrong. 

[netto]

So, I'm wondering if I need to repeat myself since I initially said "okay" to his apology.  For me, I was saying I forgive you but not necessarily that I want to  be around you right now.  Or I already told him that I didn't want to hear from him and that is enough.  I'm thinking he may have confused my "okay" as everything is good.  I feel that any response would open the door to an attack even a calm response of setting a boundary.  From past history, if I said something like I'm still hurt by what was said and I need space right now would be received by him as abandonment/rejection and ignite whatever is already brewing.  I feel like there isn't anything that I could say that would work.  Otherwise, I could answer with a simple "no" to the question of being in CA.  Then, I think he would go to expressing his anger and saying what a jerk I am for not seeing him and blah, blah, blah.   And I know what you are saying about the profanity and mind f-ing.  He's done that many times and I don't want to give him an open door.  This is tough!

Thank you for your condolences, too.  I appreciate that.

[P.F.Change]

(cross-posted)

Hi, netto, and  

It's definitely a challenge when a family member has BPD. I understand why you're feeling undecided about what is the best course of action for you. Harri has some really great advice.

I like to be upfront but it seems for uBPDb that it just opens the door for him to lash out at me. I don't know what I need to do.  I just never know what to expect if I respond. 

One thing to keep in mind is that nothing you do or do not do can control someone else's behavior. Your brother may choose to lash out regardless of whether you respond to his text. What you can control is how you respond when other people behave abusively or inappropriately. You can decide if you receive texts from people who call you names, for example, or whether you stay on the phone if someone is yelling. You can take care of your boundaries, and you don't have to be dumped on.

Here are a few workshops that have helped me a lot and may offer something helpful to you as well:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

Stop accusations and blaming

How to stop circular arguments

Therapy also helped me a lot. Have you ever considered talking with a counselor about your relationship with your brother?

PF

[netto]

P.F. Change,

Thank you for the feedback and resource.  I was thinking as you said that I can't control his reaction but I can not allow him to abuse me or dump on me if he starts.  There is that feeling of walking on eggshells or of worrying what I say is going to escalate things.  It doesn't take much.  No matter what I say, it's wrong for him or he takes offense.  I wonder what is the point of it all if no matter what you do, it doesn't work.  Answering his text doesn't get him off my back. Is it just to ease my guilt of ignoring him?  Or do I feel responsible somehow?  Or that I'm uncaring. 

I am going to therapy and just brought it up.  My T agreed that having some space and distance was a good thing, protective for me.  I could decide how much involvement I would want to have in the future but at the same time maintain some emotional safety.

I will read the link that you provided and see if it helps with some of the questions that I posed in the first paragraph. 

I'm mad, sad and frustrated right now that this has occupied so much space in my mind today especially as I have a lot to do today.  I get mad at myself for spending so much time worrying about it.  I guess that's my way of trying to control it even though I know that doesn't really work.  How do they get into your head like that? I ask.  I don't want him to get in my head like that anymore.  I know that I need to learn more.  I order one of the books here about BPD.

[Harri]

Hi Netto.  

I am going to butt in here and respond to this:

I wonder what is the point of it all if no matter what you do, it doesn't work.

 If by work you mean say just the right thing in just the right way that he is not triggered, then yes, 'it' will not work.  (I imagine you have had a lifetime of experience with just that and I can totally relate to the hopelessness and confusion and the wish to say just the right thing to make it all stop.)  But is that really the point of speaking up?  :)o you want to appease him (and leave yourself open to round 10,675 with him) or do you want to set the groundwork to let him know you are done with his BS and eggshells all over your floor and set good healthy boundaries so that you do not need to avoid setting him off and can instead take care of you and your family?  

*steps off soap box

Yikes, I just re-read this and have to soften it a bit with a   .  Apologies for coming on so strong.

[netto]

Harri,

I know appeasing him only makes things worse and rewards bad behavior.  My mom has always enabled him.  Growing up, we all had to adjust our behavior to suit my brother so that he wouldn't get angry.  It was always, ":)on't do this or don't do that because it will make your brother mad." For my mom, it was all about appeasing him to prevent a blow-up.  She still fears him getting angry to this day.  She has never chosen to stand up to him.  She doesn't want his disapproval or for him to be angry with her.  I don't want to be like her.  For the most part, I have stood my ground with him most of my life.  I have set boundaries.  When he lived with me and raged at me one day, shouting all kinds of profanity, I asked him to move out.  When we would go camping and he would start fights with everyone, I made sure that I had my own vehicle so that I could leave.  And on and on.  I have limited my time with him in the past and made sure I wasn't alone so that I had some support if he decided to act up.  I do see though that he has gotten worse over the years.  Now, I find him lying a lot more about what others are saying.  He's taken it to a new level.  You're right! I do need to set some boundaries.  Maybe I just need to get in a strong place to do that.  I have been very tired and busy lately that I don't feel prepared to stand firm.  I think that's what I'm worried about.  I want to mean business.  Usually, I have to get mad to do that.  I'm more sad than mad right now.

[Harri]

I understand.  It is hard when you are tired and run down and sad on top of it all.  Listen to yourself then and take a bit of a break, get some rest if you can.  Dealing with your brother can wait.  Time to put yourself first.   

[funfunctional]

Yes. I think couple great points other people made.   First... .that suggestions were made to talk to your brother and express feelings.    I think my own experiences have burnt me out a bit so I have to remind myself that there is more hope as not every situation is the same as mine.    I Hope you are able to talk to him.

I also agree we can't control other people's behavior.  The eggshell walking is what I was suggesting to disengage from.    Although you can't control BPD reactions I feel like one can just do an unemotional response but that is NOT a guarantee they won't still explode.

Take care... .

[netto]

Thank you!  I have been reading the information on boundaries.  I have read many books before on boundaries so I believe that I have set some good boundaries over the years with him.  I decided that I would respond.  So, I simply replied, "No, we are home now." So far I haven't hear back.  I decided that if he starts attacking to set a boundary that I will not have a discussion with him about it until he can speak to me in a way that is not ... .(whatever he is doing that is unacceptable to me or goes against my values.) ie name calling or put downs or abusive language.  I feel a lot calmer and in control today.  Thank you for your responses.  I'm learning a lot and not just for my uBPDb but a few other people that also seem uBPD. 

[Harri]

Hi netto.  I think you did well and I like the fact that you have a plan in mind should he be inappropriate/act out again.

I kept thinking about you and this thread and what absolutely floors me and fills me with admiration for you is that you have had such good boundaries since childhood in spite of having an enabling parent!  Seriously, I am a bit stunned, but in a good way.   

I think it is safe to say that you will be able to handle anything he may throw your way.  You may get upset or angry, but who wouldn't?  And if you do not, well, all the better! 

I am glad you are feeling better about things. 

[P.F.Change]

Sounds like you have a good plan in place, netto.  Glad you're feeling better.

[Linda Maria]

Hi netto!  I've been away from the board for a couple of weeks but was very moved by your post.  You are tying yourself up in knots to try to do the right thing by someone who can't seem to stop hurting you.  But you want to do the right thing and be the good guy, and that's something I've struggled with over the last year.  After my Mum died last year, my sister completely turned on me and really made my life hell for a while.  Fortunately we don't live that close and don't have many friends that we see regularly in common.  I kept trying to hold out olive branches but they were all thrown back in my face.  Like you - my sister then started saying quite unforgivable (and horrible and untrue) things, and after a lie about something my late mother is supposed to have said, on top of all the lies about me, and about my kids, it was a step too far - she had crossed the line.  For me - it just turned my stomach and since then I have absolutely no direct contact with her unless there is no choice - I do it all through solicitors and estate agents as 18 months on she is still preventing us from sorting out the estate.  But the thing that I found helpful when all this started last year, was that I kept actively finding other ways of doing things - which is why I got a solicitor involved - the nasty letters went to him instead - I still got them later  - but with his comments and advice attached - which made me feel better knowing someone else realised what was going on.  I was able to objectify it much more.  There were various stages for things regarding the estate - so I would say to myself - well - I don't need to do anything about XX for another 4 weeks, so I am not going to think about it until then.  It's easier said than done but I just kept setting little milestones.  I stopped worrying about writing nice letters to her in the hope that she would see that I wasn't this terrible monster she'd suddenly started telling everyone I was, and realised that things were much calmer if I didn't communicate.  If she wrote to me - if I needed to respond I would do so objectively and neutrally, keep to facts, nothing personal, and I would always copy my solicitor or other parties so I always had witnessed records of everything I said. It was important to me to keep the moral high ground, not get dragged into name calling etc, not to respond to anything I didn't have to.  I have "allowed" myself to be largely free of it, and not feel guilty.  I do feel sad about it, and I would never say never, at some point in the future, who knows, she may be able to control her behaviour and we can communicate again.  But there's no point in me making myself ill and depressed over the behaviour of someone who only wants or is able to be abusive to me, and it won't help her anyway.  And I don't want this stuff cluttering up my head all day every day - that doesn't help anyone either.  So I would suggest you try to set yourself some goals around deciding not to even think about the subject for 2 days, find ways of distracting yourself with other things in your life, and if your brother communicates with you, and you find yourself worrying about how to respond, just don't respond.  You have a right to be happy and get on with your life - think about what you would tell your friend to do if it was him or her - I know it's hard to do - but all I can say is that for me it has helped to get me back to feeling normal, and not constantly stressed and persecuted like I was for most of last year.  good luck and warm wishes. JB

[ABCD1234]

Dear Netto,

My sister is unBPD and I have been NC with her for over a year.  She has emailed and called me but I never contact her. My life is calm and free of drama and I refuse to allow her to shatter my peace even though she has cancer. Yeah, she has terminal cancer and I still want nothing to do with her. I do not believe that being ill, either mentally or physically, gives anyone permission to be verbally abusive. Apologies or no apologies, I will not be disrespected and dumped on. Period. I love her. She is my sister. But she has betrayed my trust by saying the most hateful and hurtful things and I'm done. As Nicolas Cage says in "Moonstruck", "I'm no monument to justice!"  I am in charge of me and if I decide not to let people abuse me, that's okay. I don't have to base my decisions or behavior on someone else's gauge. I don't have to justify my decisions to the rest of my family. They know what she is capable of. They have seen her in action. If they want to be abused, that is their choice. But I personally feel that people who allow themselves to be abused are doormats and have self esteem issues. I will not be a doormat and if someone wants me in their life, they will treat me with dignity and respect. Done. Good luck to you, but based on my personal experience, NC is awesome!