So she called last night to apologize...

[Gone2Long]

Was not expecting to hear from her so soon, maybe next week to give me some ambiguous report from her doctor or perhaps one of our relatives would make a call to me on her behalf to test the waters (and most assuredly to pass on the responsibility of listening and providing sympathy - wouldn't blame them for that!).  It's this twisted "pattern" she and I have lived with and I understand a lot of people dealing with disordered individuals have their own unique one that they grow to recognize. 

Anyway... .she called and said "I'm sorry I said that terrible thing to you" (basically about me wanting to kill her by upsetting her so I could have her money... .and then throwing my 17yr old daughter and I out of her house).  Then she told me her friend had passed away (this lady was pushing 90 and very ill).  We talked briefly about this person's life and how she was at the end, there will be no funeral or memorial for her as she didn't want one.  Mom didn't seem terribly upset as we were expecting it... .there was no discussion or explanation about her behavior, either, and this is something I am worried about.

You see, I want this to stop and I do know that I am the only one who can initiate changes.  This raging / apologizing "thing" has been going on before my teens, into my adult life and it must END.  My partner cannot be expected to listen sympathetically every time she puts on the witches hat.  We moved in together to be a family and start a new life.  I know she really wants no part of the changes we made (me moving cities and starting a new job up here) but this is reality and it's all GOOD... .and it's staying that way if I can help it!

I just don't know where to begin with new "rules" for myself and gathering the strength to stand my ground... .set boundaries for my family and I and make it clear they are not to be violated or there will be reckoning.  CAN I enforce consequences if I set them out and live with them?

I have been powerless in the past making carefully considered boundaries with her regarding her self-pity, blame, anger.  I've used a lot of techniques I read about but when I do employ them, eventually she's found ways to smash them in order to get the reaction she seeks (fear, guilt, tears I think).  It's breathtaking the lengths disordered people will go to obtain what they seek and the amount of cunning and twisted intelligence that is used!  This has gone so far as the outright fabrications of the other night... .which happened right in front of my daughter, no less.  So, it's not just me involved anymore, my kids are at risk of being swept into the craziness as well. 

My moral self will not let me cut her out of my life completely... .not YET, anyhow (it was seriously considered Monday night, believe me).  Any ideas on what might be a solution would help... .I have a few ideas (limited contact, only talking on the phone for now, going no contact when I suspect she is spiraling into an "episode".  I'm all ears... .!

[Harri]

Hi G2L, I have some ideas and suggestions!  LOL  :)o you know what good boundaries look and sound like?  I know I did not and I needed some examples and ideas thrown at me to look at and then change to suit my situation.  

What worked for me with this example below, and may or may not work for you is the following:

Me:  Mom, I have been thinking about our last argument where you accused me of wanting to kill you for your money.  I know it happened a little while ago, but it is still upsetting to me.  It hurts to hear you make untrue accusations and I do not deserve that from you or anyone.  I have decided that the next time you say something like that I am going to end the conversation.

Mom:  But I apologized for that.  Why are you bringing this up again?

Me:  Because it hurt me.  Because that is the kind of stuff that has been going on between us for decades and I am tired of it.  It hurts and I refuse to allow that kind of behavior in my life anymore.  I am done with my part in it all.

Mom: How could you say that to me?  I am your mother.  Family is supposed to stay together and you are supposed to respect me, blah,blah,blah... . 

Me: I am your daughter and I love you dearly but I meant it when I said I don't want to do this with you any more.  As your daughter I deserve better than what you have been doing.

Mom: You are killing me!  I knew it!  It is all so you can get my money when I die!

Me: I told you I will not do this with you any more.  Goodbye.

Hang up the phone.  If she is like my mom was, she would call you back, using her voice from hell and tell me I am an ungrateful and hateful person and she is crushed blah, blah, blah.

Say goodbye and hang up the phone.

When she calls back again, hang up the phone.

If you need to turn the ringer off or leave and go for a walk or a drive.

An alternative I would use when I was actually in the same room with her when she pulled that crap was to look her in the eye and say "Yep, you got me pegged all right." I would let her see me roll my eyes and then I would leave.  She would grab at my arm usually and I would pull away and tell her not to touch me.  I only used that when i was too damn tired and hurt and soo angry that I was not able to stay calm and not scream back at her.  Sarcasm as a defense can work but is not recommended except as a last resort  

I have no idea how comfortable you would be with the above scenarios or how physical you mother would get, but those are a couple of options.  Maybe you can build off them and come up with your own script.  And yes, I mean script.  I had to practice.  

You need to set the boundary, tell her what it is *in the moment*, and then follow through by changing your behavior (walk away, leave the room, hang up the phone)

The above is good if, like me, you want to maintain contact but in a limited way and while learning to stand up for you and protect you and yours.

What do you think?  My examples are what I used when I did not really care about maintaining a typical mother daughter relationship.  I had no chance of that ever so I went with the above.  It worked for me

I also have a question.  When you say it is against your moral self, what do you mean?  :)oes that include some belief that moms are to be honored or is it something else?

[Gone2Long]

Thanks so much for the examples, Harri ... .I understand the "script" methodology and do feel now that I have to have some "canned" statements up my sleeve for things that fly out of the blue at me... .no matter what they might be.

Mom stopped being physical many, many years ago (yes, she used to hit) but in April, she got so wired up I think she would have attacked me if she could (was sick and raging that nobody cared about her, let me die, I don't want to go to the doctor... . ).  The real violence in her has always been verbal... .if the words and facial expressions could physically hurt she would put a lot of people in intensive care!

I guess the word "morally" might not have been what I meant but couldn't think of anything that described my position on severing ties with family.  Yes, like you, I don't want to sever all contact with her but want to be able to have a place of peace and safety as well... .it may mean less communication, I'm not sure how all this is going to play out right now.  Here's the thing:

I came along late in life for not only my parents but for the rest of my family as well.  My brother passed away in 2006 (he had just turned 64), my father is gone and most of my aunts and uncles have passed away over the last 10 years - it's the way life is, most were in their 80's and there was no great tragedy, only the passage of time, and cousins are busy and we may see each other once every 2-5 years.  I understand this and am blessed to know / have known these people... .but I miss them and feel like we didn't have "enough" time together.  What I'm trying to say is that there has been a lot of natural loss and I know I don't have it in me to completely, consciously cut ties with my mother.  That will also put a great deal of strain on what's left of my extended family, cause confusion and a lot of hurt and that's another thing I won't do.  They may have not known what was happening but that was because it was well concealed by my mother and my father and I wouldn't dare utter a word... .they are good people and I need to find a way to deal with my mother that they can understand and accept.  I have to exhaust every angle so I know in my heart I have done everything in my own power to find a solution that works for everyone... .does this make any sense?

[Harri]

Hi G2L.  Okay, so I understand what you mean about moral self.  Handling this so that you feel good with yourself is important to you and you want to try to have things work out.  It is possible and it sounds like you are mentally prepared so that is excellent!

I have a bias here and I tend to be cautionary even when it is not needed, so take this next bit and see what you think.  I believe that the boundaries and limits you want to set will only work for *you* if you are resolved in your heart that she just may up the ante and you have no alternative but to cut contact.  Heck, she may do what my mom did which was to cut me off (well, really she was being manipulative by using the silent treatment as an attack but it played the same as no contact)  Every step of the way I had to take an inventory of where I stood in terms of the possibility of going no contact.  I never had to play it that way, but  I was prepared.

Have you read some of the resources on this site?  There are methods called SET and JADE and a couple of others that seem to be geared for people who want to maintain or achieve a closer relationship than what I wanted with my mom.  I did not know of these methods back than but even knowing now, I do not think they would work with her.  She was a freaking steam-roller.  I once tried using "I statement" thing to talk about my feelings and not point fingers at her.  I said all the right things, but she twisted that into me being selfish, not caring about anyone especially her, I was evil blah blah blah.  Ugh!  That is when I realized that with my mom there was no reasoning or peaceful co-existence, it would be a battle every blasted time.  (hence my hard line approach to boundaries... .errrmmmm, yeah... .   )

They really can be violent with their words can't they?  Some stuff still hurts to remember and she has been dead since 2007!  Unreal.

Okay, lets see what ideas other people have too.

Take care!   

[Jema]

I said all the right things, but she twisted that into me being selfish, not caring about anyone especially her, I was evil blah blah blah.  Ugh!  That is when I realized that with my mom there was no reasoning or peaceful co-existence, it would be a battle every blasted time.

Thanks, Harri. Reading your experience, and others on this site, helps to reinforce my own experience and actions, as follows:

In our 4th joint T session, my uBPDm bolted when the T began to [very gently and indirectly] validate me. This after several sessions of M's similar style of victim & villain casting, along with much circular bickering.

That was enough to bind me into NC. It will probably be forever, because my condition for any further contact is for her to continue with T. I am fairly certain that won't happen, as she won't expose herself to that manner of introspection.

In my ongoing (but occasional) sessions with T, she has been very supportive in saying that my first duty is to protect myself.

My interaction with M is very close to that of Harri's. Going NC is also costly in some ways, as I am an only child, and an only grandchild. I have no children (by choice) and, as far as blood is concerned, I only have my M's sister (my aunt, who has had NC with M for 6 years). I do have a wonderful and supportive wife and many great friends.

My uBPDm has no family left who are willing to put up with her. That is sad, but I often remind myself that it's not my fault. She has made the choices which have left her in her current state--including not seeking help for the issues she admits to having (i.e., her depression and temper), even when given the chance through our T.

I would say to any child or sibling of a pwBPD: Stand your ground and keep and even reinforce those boundaries. For many types of mental illness (especially BPD), if the afflicted person has no intention of seeking a cure, there can be no remediation.

Take stock of what you have in your life and put your efforts towards maintaining, and/or improving, those elements. It may seem mean and heartless, but you will be doing yourself (and others who rely on you) a huge favor by breaking the cycle of FOG and torment.

I have--after exhaustively trying to find alternatives. I don't regret it and I am not looking back.

Cheers,

Jema